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Why do people deny CICO ?
Replies
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If we understand that without fat, we die, then wouldn't the people who claim sugar has magical fat accumulating properties be admitting that sugar is the superior energy source? Not all countries have readily available food, after all. Maybe that will make people realize how ridiculous it is to claim that sugar can subvert the laws of physics.8
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »Done.
#goldstarforme
So why do you think people deny CICO then?
I believe this is addressed in Matthew 26:34.
Does that cover TinyLegForever Syndrome, too?6 -
Yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the SAD, I fear no sugar. My green tea and my ketones, they comfort me. Thou hast anointed my head with hormones, my cup of ACV runneth over. Surely clean food and intuitive eating shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of Dr Oz forever.
Sadly, I think this is in fact on topic.29 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »Done.
#goldstarforme
So why do you think people deny CICO then?
I believe this is addressed in Matthew 26:34.
Does that cover TinyLegForever Syndrome, too?
I’ve never denied those even once...certainly not three times...so no.
(That said, look for an updated leg progress pic from me later this year.9 -
WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.13 -
Wow you guys and girls are on fire!! I have read almost all the thread, not all, cos good grief, it's so long, but... I don't understand why can't we all count calories and also eat nutritious food? calories, macros, micros, we can have it all. I don't see the issue with that6
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Katzedernacht wrote: »Wow you guys and girls are on fire!! I have read almost all the thread, not all, cos good grief, it's so long, but... I don't understand why can't we all count calories and also eat nutritious food? calories, macros, micros, we can have it all. I don't see the issue with that
There isn't any issue with that. What you're seeing in this thread is a bunch of strawman arguments involving eating nothing but oreos on a "CICO diet" because you can eat anything you want. Nobody has or will advocate such nonsense. Nobody that I ever heard of eats that way.
Edited for spelling6 -
Katzedernacht wrote: »Wow you guys and girls are on fire!! I have read almost all the thread, not all, cos good grief, it's so long, but... I don't understand why can't we all count calories and also eat nutritious food? calories, macros, micros, we can have it all. I don't see the issue with that
The only people who say you can't are those who create false dichotomies suggesting that focusing on calories means you can't focus on nutrition.
I pointed out a while back (as did many others) that focusing on calories doesn't mean you can't (or shouldn't) also focus on nutrition, what makes you feel satisfied/not hungry, so on, also. I find it so weird that some people seem to think that one must choose between the two. I'll note that I've NEVER seen anyone who says CICO is what matters for weight loss saying you need to choose, but only those who claim CICO is "overrated" or the like who seem to think you must pick one or the other. Silly!5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.10 -
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
Also, even if CICO *was* a step, it's perfectly okay never to "move along." Lots of people find that they meet their nutritional needs, achieve their fitness goals, and maintain good health without paying particular attention to their macros.
It's like how one can maintain a healthy weight without ever counting a single calorie. Some people find the tool of calorie counting useful, others find they do great without it. It's the same with paying close attention to macros. It's not something that everyone needs and that's okay.
Just like calories, your body is processing and benefiting from macros whether you're tracking to hit a specific goal or not. And even if you pay no attention to nutritional quality, your body is still getting all the nutrients from your food.7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
Before you sigh and conclude that I missed the point, understand that CICO *alone* was a step for me.
I began with CICO and prioritizing limiting my net calories per day with little regard to anything else. Then I progressed to IIFYM, which is CICO plus balancing macro nutrients. Once IIFYM was routine, I tracked micros closer and refined my diet with higher quality food.
I never stated that CICO and a focus on nutritional excellence were mutually exclusive, but you don't need to do anything with the latter in order to adhere to the former.
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
Before you sigh and conclude that I missed the point, understand that CICO *alone* was a step for me.
I began with CICO and prioritizing limiting my net calories per day with little regard to anything else. Then I progressed to IIFYM, which is CICO plus balancing macro nutrients. Once IIFYM was routine, I tracked micros closer and refined my diet with higher quality food.
I never stated that CICO and a focus on nutritional excellence were mutually exclusive, but you don't need to do anything with the latter in order to adhere to the former.
I think the disconnect is that you're using "CICO" as a way to say "counting calories." They're different -- CICO is happening whether one is counting calories or not. We all adhere to CICO, we have no choice. It's just how our bodies operate. Within that context, some of us count calories and others don't.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
Before you sigh and conclude that I missed the point, understand that CICO *alone* was a step for me.
I began with CICO and prioritizing limiting my net calories per day with little regard to anything else. Then I progressed to IIFYM, which is CICO plus balancing macro nutrients. Once IIFYM was routine, I tracked micros closer and refined my diet with higher quality food.
I never stated that CICO and a focus on nutritional excellence were mutually exclusive, but you don't need to do anything with the latter in order to adhere to the former.
I think the disconnect is that you're using "CICO" as a way to say "counting calories." They're different -- CICO is happening whether one is counting calories or not. We all adhere to CICO, we have no choice. It's just how our bodies operate. Within that context, some of us count calories and others don't.
Got it- I've always used CICO and "counting calories" interchangeably, which apparently is confusing others
10 -
48 pages later and we are still trying to clear up confusion which was clarified on page 1.18
-
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »abbynormal52 wrote: »So many people just don't grasp the concept of calories in calories out. They tell me that not all calories are equal and that you have to eat healthy to lose weight. I used to argue with these people but lately I just smile and nod. It's worked for me.. I eat basically anything I want and have lost 5 kg. I feel so many more people would be successful at weight loss if they just grasped this simple scientific concept. I'm hoping to reach my ultimate weight and then write a blog list about how I did it and prove all the CICO deniers wrong
I agree it has to do with CICO, but for me, it's also about which nutrients my bod needs, so I work my macros in. You like the way you eat, it works for you. I totally "grasp" what you do, it's just not for me.
Why do you presume these things (CICO and achieving adequate nutrition) are mutually exclusive?
And what specifically is “not for you”? CICO?
Because simply CICO is not enough for me. I need to know what those calories are, what types of calories I need to achieve my goals. I don't deny it is about CICO, never have. I just take it a lot further.
Almost everyone does something other than just count calories, if that's what you mean by CICO. (Obviously, however, CICO does not mean "counting calories.")
This discussion is not actually about whether it's useful to do something other than just counting calories, as I really can't imagine someone not doing ANYTHING else, not caring about how they feel or hunger or whatever. I'm not even sure how JUST doing calorie counting would work in practice? You get up, start eating based on whim, log while doing it, and then stop eating when you hit goal? I can't imagine someone approaching it that way for more than a couple of days, and I wouldn't have tried that for even one, not how my mind works. That's why I find this assumption that if you think about something other than merely # of calories that CICO is not enough for you to be kind of puzzling.
Calories in Calories Out, do I have that right? I hadn't even heard of it as CICO until today. But I think that is what it means. I'd like to see where anyone ever "denied" that it is about calories in calories out first of all. And then, I would just add, if whoever posted "why do people deny" CICO would have had a pretty boring thread if everyone just said "I don't deny it", "I don't deny it".
Oh, and I never mentioned "counting" calories I don't think?? I mentioned nutrition, and types of calories and macros.
What is the OP about? Go ahead and explain it to me?
Sounds like you agree calories are what matter for weight loss. That’s great! I’m curious why you continue to bring up nutrition as if you are the only person who is concerned about that? You said “CICO isn’t enough for me” as if no one else is looking beyond energy at things like satiety and nutrients. Again, do you think CICO and focusing on obtaining adequate nutrition are mutually exclusive?
I would say, based on what I've read in various threads over the past few years, that virtually every long-term poster considers *something* in their food choices other than just calories. Exactly what is focused on varies from person to person, but I think everyone is focusing on something. Nobody is just daily eating whatever pops into their head at a given moment and then stopping for the day when their calorie goal is reached.
(Because the world is big and contains all kinds of people, I'm prepared for someone to come in and say this is exactly how they eat, but I'm still thinking that type of eating pattern would be an exception for someone who is maintaining long-term or focusing on achieving specific fitness goals).
CICO isn't "enough" for anybody because CICO isn't, and was never meant to be, a complete diet plan or description of how someone eats.
This is a great way to frame things. CICO is a good first step, but once you master that, move along to IIFYM. IIFYM is great, but the next step is focusing on increasing the quality of your food. There is so much to nutrition that it is useful to keep looking at the next way that you can refine and improve upon your program.
Sigh. The point, I think you may have missed it.
CICO isn’t a step. It is the overarching energy balance equation. You don’t move from it to IIFYM, because even when following IIFYM, CICO still governs whether you lose, maintain or gain. Same with focusing on nutritional quality. Again - CICO and focus on nutrition are not mutually exclusive.
Before you sigh and conclude that I missed the point, understand that CICO *alone* was a step for me.
I began with CICO and prioritizing limiting my net calories per day with little regard to anything else. Then I progressed to IIFYM, which is CICO plus balancing macro nutrients. Once IIFYM was routine, I tracked micros closer and refined my diet with higher quality food.
I never stated that CICO and a focus on nutritional excellence were mutually exclusive, but you don't need to do anything with the latter in order to adhere to the former.
I think the disconnect is that you're using "CICO" as a way to say "counting calories." They're different -- CICO is happening whether one is counting calories or not. We all adhere to CICO, we have no choice. It's just how our bodies operate. Within that context, some of us count calories and others don't.
Got it- I've always used CICO and "counting calories" interchangeably, which apparently is confusing others
It's not "others" who are confused.17 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Now I'm just wondering how I lost 40 Lbs and have managed to keep it off (except for winter weight) for 5 years. I'm also wondering how the hell I've lost 4 of my 10 Lbs of winter weight in the last month.
I see that you and I are now worried about the same thing.
@jofjltncb6 I am extremely concerned...
Good to see you around...1 -
In my case, because it's not that simple. I have many autoimmune diseases, including a thyroid one, I have no thyroid. It's just not as simple as CICO for me and people with these issues. However, anyone can lose weight. I've lost 70ish lbs so far.16
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