Myth or not a myth?
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Ok I never had a problem with telling her to eat pizza sometimes. I never said I was eating 1200 calories. You guys have twisted my posts so much that it was too frustrating to continue the conversation yesterday. My whole point was that sometimes eating what you want isnt possible on ones calorie deficit. Halo top is not worth eating to me. I'm certainly not a troll. One thing I will say is that several posters here arent very nice and this entire post has been very discouraging.
Welcome back. Can we call this a done deal now? You are obviously not going to change the minds of the people who gave the advice and we are obviously going to be unable to properly communicate to you in a way that satisfies you.
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Thanks M23 I have been thinking of adding a carbs back a little, before I hit goal. I am not worried about water weight and know that an overnight change in weight up or down is not real, it's just my body. I have gone up two one week and dropped three the next. I know if I am on program or not and am very disciplined, therefore I am 100% on my program.
I don't agree fear is not healthy NovusD, I keeps me in check. Fear of overeating or bad food choices can help motivate you to not overeat or choose the right foods. Fear can be a great personal motivator as long as you are not inflicting fear on others. That would be bad!
Oh yes I meant to say to M23, when I hit goal I am not going off my diet and am just increasing the calories I allow myself to eat. I will never go off my diet because to me diet is how I control my eating and my way of eating right.
That's one thing you may want to work on. If you've been riding on motivation, then it's usually a short ride. Habit building and consistency will take you much farther. Fear of overeating and bad choices did not prevent you from regaining weight, so was it really a good enough motivator?
For me, personally, fear of food choices doesn't exist. It's too stressful and unpleasant to live in constant fear. When I think of my diet, I think of the rest of my life and if I would enjoy living that way. I certainly wouldn't if I lived in fear. My food choices are based on what I feel is best for the situation. Choices made out of self-care, not fear. My personal choice of diet is as far from low carb as it gets, so if carbs were scary I wouldn't have lost 100 pounds. So you basically do want more carbs in your life but you're afraid of them? Could it be that irrational fear is what's leading you to overeat? We tend to overdo things when we feel like we're doing wrong. It's called "the *kitten* it effect".0 -
Op there was a professor who experimented with just eating junk food (twinkies) calories under what he was burning and he lost weight. So, the answer to your question is yes.3
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Hi Amused-
Funny I know exactly what happened. Our house got hit by a tornado and we move to a hotel. I had no problem keeping to low carbs but I stopped measuring and counting. I never and I mean never feel full. Full to me is satisfied. I can eat and still feel hungry. Some will want to argue that point but it is true for me. So if I don't log measure and count I will overeat.
Your right a tornado and living in a hotel is a poor excuse but that's really what happened and why I stopped measuring. The good news is in two years I only gained 16 pounds and not all forty back. I attribute that to sticking with the low carbs.
Then you know what to do, keep reminding yourself every day that you need to keep measuring and counting. That was an unlikely event, and hopefully, you won't have to go through that again. I don't think it's a poor excuse, but it is a good reminder of what you're capable of surviving.0 -
That is essentially true but it is not true that "a calories is a calorie." Insulin plays a big factor so anything that raises insulin too much, like high fructose corn syrup, can mess up the way your body reacts to and stores fat.27
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
You're free to recommend elimination diets to the OP or tell her that she needs to stop eating pizza because you don't find 255 calories of it satisfying. You may give whatever advice you want.
I'm going to stick with giving the advice that I know worked for me and I've seen work for other people here: Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit and it's okay to experiment to find what works for you to create that deficit, including eating foods that you enjoy.
I'm not recommending an elimination diet nor telling her to never eat pizza. I never said those things.
Then I have no idea why you're so worked up about people telling OP it's okay to eat pizza sometimes.
Ok I never had a problem with telling her to eat pizza sometimes. I never said I was eating 1200 calories. You guys have twisted my posts so much that it was too frustrating to continue the conversation yesterday. My whole point was that sometimes eating what you want isnt possible on ones calorie deficit. Halo top is not worth eating to me. I'm certainly not a troll. One thing I will say is that several posters here arent very nice and this entire post has been very discouraging.
I'm sorry this has been a frustrating experience for you. I'm still not sure why you're so convinced that people will hear they can eat as much of anything they want when they're told they can include all kinds of foods in their diet and still lose weight if they're in a calorie deficit, but really, that's all the people you disagree with here are saying: Since weight loss is created by a calorie deficit, it's okay to have pizza sometimes (or fast food or chocolate) while you're losing weight.
As others have pointed out, since OP is going to be logging her food, she'll quickly see the calorie impact of her various choices and, like we've all done, begin the process of figuring out what is worth it to her and what isn't.
I think your own frustration about not being able to have large quantities of higher calorie foods is coloring your response here. In reality, there are lots of people logging who use the strategy of choosing smaller portions of higher calorie foods so they can have them more frequently. It's pretty common for me, for example, to have a half cup of ice cream or an ounce of tortilla chips. So I'm not going to assume that it won't work for OP, it's actually the most sustainable approach I've ever had for controlling my weight. I realize it's not for everyone, but for people who think it might work for them, I think it's worth a try.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I can't speak for the others but I assume there is quite a bit more to the OP's normal diet than fries, chocolate, pizza, or even "junk" food when I said she could eat whatever she wants.
I think I understand your point of view, but from my perspective fries, chocolate, pizza = junk food
Encouraging the behavior of "eat whatever she wants" may just reinforce making bad food choices.
Learning to eat junk in moderation, say once a week, is a key to success.
Learning to appreciate more healthy choices that you are not accustomed to -like salads- is also key.
Just my thoughts.
Assuming one is meeting one's nutritional needs, why does the frequency of pizza eating matter?
Assuming one is not meeting one's nutritional needs, eating salad daily isn't going to be a magic cure.
I think the overall context of the OP's diet is what is key here, not specific foods she may or may not be eating.
She will lose weight eating anything she likes as long as she is in a calorie deficit. Whether she is in a deficit or not, it's wise to eat in a way that leads to nutritional needs being met. But if she wasn't choosing to do that before, I'm not sure what the benefit is of a hyperfocus on it now.
Will OP be better off if she decides not to lose weight and continues eating as she is now? If OP is overweight, losing weight is still likely to be a net benefit to her health.
(This is assuming she has excess weight and isn't just losing vanity pounds).
Foods like pizza dont fit into MY calorie budget every day. They just don't. In order for me to eat pizza I have to sacrifice an entire meal and only eat 2 meals in a day. I can only eat foods like pizza, ice cream, and other calorie dense foods on days when I have woken up late and gone to bed early, and can be satisfied with only 2 meals. Many people on a calorie budget cant eat whatever they want every day. I have managed to budget small amounts of my favorite foods into my budget twice a week or so by exercising a lot on those particular days. Even then, I am limiting myself a lot. I'm definitely not eating whatever I want because my calorie budget doesnt allow it.
One slice of Papa John's pepperoni pizza on thin crust is 255 calories. That would fit into lunch or dinner for just about any calorie goal. Now that may not be the pizza you prefer and it may not be the quantity that you want, but I guarantee you that if OP wanted it, eating pizza daily would be something she could do and still have three meals a day. Would she possibly need to experiment to ensure she felt full and satisfied? Yes -- but then most of us have had to do that, it's part of being successful and counting calories. Would she eventually decide to have pizza less often because it required compromises she didn't feel like making all the time? Possibly. Again, that's something that has happened to some of us.
I think the disconnect is between people saying "Yes, you can have foods like pizza regularly and still lose weight" and others hearing "Yes, you can eat as much pizza as you want and still lose weight." Nobody is saying that you can eat as much of any food you want and still lose weight.
the phrase " whatever you want" suggests no limits. I asked several different people what they thought of that term since I have seen it thrown around a lot and that seems to be what people think. Most people won't be satisfied with one piece of pizza. I know I'm not. I'm trying to be realistic here.
Given that virtually every post saying "Yes" to OP's question is adding "as long as you're in a deficit" or "as long as you're hitting your calorie goal," I can't agree with your reading that OP is being told she can eat as much as she wants of whatever she wants.
When you're asking different people about this, are you including the context that these discussions are taking place on a calorie counting website? That's pretty crucial context, IMO.
I get not being satisfied with a single serving of something. It's why I don't eat, for example, Swedish Fish, because it's something like 150 calories for 7 fish and that's just not enough for me so I don't eat them. But that doesn't change the fact that I *could* eat Swedish Fish. If you're choosing not to eat pizza because you want more than one piece, that doesn't mean you can't have pizza at all. It means you're *choosing* not to have it. And that's a perfectly rational calculation that lots of people make.
But since OP is asking about having pizza within her calorie goal, we've got to consider that she *does* think it would be worth it (at least she thinks it will be). Why should your feelings about pizza or my feelings about Swedish Fish determined whether or not OP can have pizza or candy often? What's realistic for OP may look completely different than what is realistic for you.
A lot pf people fail trying to stick with their calorie budgets for a reason. Because they realize they can't stick to their budget eating "whatever they want". Thats my point. Some people may be able to make it happen by eating tiny portions. People new to counting calories may see that and think they can eat what they want only to see that their favorite foods have too many calories and then feel misled.
And a lot of people fail to even try to lose weight because they think they can't have pizza, chocolate, or french fries ever.
So why not just let people know how weight loss works and then let them get involved in their own experiments finding out what is worth it and what isn't?
It is ok to encourage people to eat treats in moderation but "whatever you want" is not moderation. Even when mentioning that it must be within their calorie budget, that is misleading because many people cant eat their favorite foods often within their calorie budget or in a portion they would expect.
I would say that eating fries, chocolate, and pizza within quantities that meet one's calorie goal is moderation.
OP could eat these foods often within her calorie goal if she wanted to. Even a calorie goal of 1,200 would allow for, say, a fun-sized candy bar, a piece of pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of french fries daily with 635 calories to spare. And we have no reason to believe that OP is even wanting to eat all these foods within a single day, but we know that she could and still lose weight.
Maybe those serving sizes wouldn't be satisfying to you. That's good information for you when planning your meals, it's irrelevant to OP.
Maybe you would struggle with hunger on a plan that sometimes included those foods. Again, great information for you, not so important for anyone else.
The important thing: if 1,200 calories is a deficit for someone, then eating 635 calories a day plus a fun-sized Snickers, a piece of Papa John's thin crust pepperoni pizza, and a small bag of McDonald's fries would result in weight loss. That's the question OP asked. Are you saying we should say "No" in response to that question?
If you could figure out that pizza doesn't work for you in the context of a deficit, why can't we assume that OP will also figure it out if it is true for her?
She may figure out what works for her. I hope she does. For a lot of people who are new to dieting, sticking with all of their same calorie rich foods and/or their usual portion sizes probably will end in failure though. Most people want to be full and not super hungry at the end of the day. If someone likes no healthy or lower calorie foods, then they will probably have a hard time sticking to their calorie budget eating only rich foods. That's the point I'm trying to make.
You're free to recommend elimination diets to the OP or tell her that she needs to stop eating pizza because you don't find 255 calories of it satisfying. You may give whatever advice you want.
I'm going to stick with giving the advice that I know worked for me and I've seen work for other people here: Weight loss is created by a calorie deficit and it's okay to experiment to find what works for you to create that deficit, including eating foods that you enjoy.
I'm not recommending an elimination diet nor telling her to never eat pizza. I never said those things.
Then I have no idea why you're so worked up about people telling OP it's okay to eat pizza sometimes.
Ok I never had a problem with telling her to eat pizza sometimes. I never said I was eating 1200 calories. You guys have twisted my posts so much that it was too frustrating to continue the conversation yesterday. My whole point was that sometimes eating what you want isnt possible on ones calorie deficit. Halo top is not worth eating to me. I'm certainly not a troll. One thing I will say is that several posters here arent very nice and this entire post has been very discouraging.
Lord. I thought you were done hijacking this post.
Didn't you just say that you were leaving? **checks**I was accused of being unrealistic. Many people can't make their favorite foods a frequent part of their calorie budget in a portion that is satisfying. That is reality for some people. I'm just being scapegoated here and attacked for no reason. I see now why some people join MFP but never post. Adios.
If asking you to stop derailing someone else's thread is not "very nice," then consider me a huge jerk. I, personally, consider hijacking someone else's thread not "very nice" and pretty "discouraging."
So I guess now we're at an impasse.7 -
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That is essentially true but it is not true that "a calories is a calorie." Insulin plays a big factor so anything that raises insulin too much, like high fructose corn syrup, can mess up the way your body reacts to and stores fat.
Nope. Sounds like you've been listening to Gary Taubes or Jason Fung too much. There is no net fat storage while in a caloric deficit. And HFCS is virtually bioidentical to sugar, so that ain't it. Need to find another bogeyman.8 -
That is essentially true but it is not true that "a calories is a calorie." Insulin plays a big factor so anything that raises insulin too much, like high fructose corn syrup, can mess up the way your body reacts to and stores fat.
MythThat is essentially true but it is not true that "a calories is a calorie." Insulin plays a big factor so anything that raises insulin too much, like high fructose corn syrup, can mess up the way your body reacts to and stores fat.
Nope. Sounds like you've been listening to Gary Taubes or Jason Fung too much. There is no net fat storage while in a caloric deficit. And HFCS is virtually bioidentical to sugar, so that ain't it. Need to find another bogeyman.
Not a myth
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Sniff! I actually don't go to concerts and my "knowledge" of currently popular touring groups sucks! I literally grabbed a top 10 grossing list of touring groups for 2017/18 to harvest the names... so all disdain should be forwarded to whoever determines currently popular concerts to throw money at!
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The average person is not going to eat one slice of thin crust pizza. I would rather not eat pizza at all. For me, 2 slices of regular crust is not ideal but even that won't fit my daily calorie budget. So eating "whatever I want" doesnt work. I will not be full and stick to my calorie budget eating that way. It might work for some with higher calorie budgets but not for a lot of people. For a lot of people trying to stick to their calorie budget and be full, it requires giving up a lot of favorite foods on a daily basis and only eating them rarely or eating such a small portion of them where it is not even satisfying.
You are confusing "whatever you want" with "as much as you want"
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CICO is the math behind losing weight. Most people (unless they have a hormonal/medical issue) will lose weight just by making sure they have a calorie deficit everyday. Now, when it comes to "healthy" versus "unhealthy food," really as long as you stay under your calorie goal, it doesn't matter. However, as a girl from NY, a piece of pizza from a large pie is nearly 600cal, so unless I plan on having 2 slices of pizza per day, it's better for me to just avoid those "unhealthy" foods altogether. The truth of the matter is that healthy foods like fruits, veggies, and lean meats (with some exceptions of course) are just generally lower calorie and it's easier to maintain a 1200cal diet eating those foods. My best advice is for you to experiment with these foods, find ones you like and incorporate those into your diet. Not to be condescending, but it'll be better for your health in the long run anyway, especially if your diet consists of pizza, fries and chocolate now lol
But to each their own, if a couple slices of pizza a day suits ya fancy, just make sure you take a multivitamin or something lmao for my own concern for your health. 1 -
I think the reason these frustrating discussions keep occurring is because of distorted thinking.
People who advocate "good" foods and "bad" foods are engaging in black or white thinking. They do not recognize the endless shades of gray that truly color our reality.
The problem is that, in the short term, these strategies can actually be helpful in losing weight because the simplistic view of food can make it easier to create a calorie deficit as it is very rigid. Of course, people who have successfully maintained their weight loss know the consequence of this distorted thinking patterns- they make it very difficult to maintain a weight loss. Maintenance requires flexibility and the ability to handle the wide variety of food situations that people encounter in their daily lives successfully. Those that aren't able to recognize and change their dysfunctional thinking will almost certainly find themselves unable to maintain their weight loss.9 -
Hi Cattzm I would have chunky chips oven baked instead of fries. Chocolate is OK have a large bar of what you like . Pizza go for traditional crispy base and watch your toppings. Make sure you log everything also walking is great. It gives me extra calories to burn (Basic model fit bit linked to my fitness pal account) Excess refined Carbs are bad I try to keep it to one or two meals a day e.g. 100g Pasta or bread for a sandwich. Try to eat Wholemeal bread and Pasta if possible it tastes better and has more nutrients. Step by step you will get there 0.5 -1kg a week (1-2 lbs).4
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I lost weight eating a piece of fruit and protein bar (chocolate) for breakfast, and Lean Cuisine meals (pizza) for lunch and dinner. Calories each day around 1100. I'm in my late fifties. When I went for a check-up, all numbers were good, including b12 and vitamin d. My triglycerides dropped 70 points. I lost about 12 pounds, which is all I needed, and have kept it off for a year. I pretty much stuck to that and eating what I want on weekends until recently
when I decided to try low carb eating for the supposed health benefits. I hate it.1 -
Track here how much protein you're consuming, daily. When I dropped down to 1200 calories or less, I started feeling weak and sluggish until I added protein bars as a snack. They taste better than a salad, and the Costco Kirkland bars are only 190 calories each.0
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Predominantly a USAian forum, so I understand "woo" to most is a bad thing, but in much of the rest of the English speaking world, it could be considered a positive thing. MFP were told this way back when they introduced it, but chose to ignore it, and people's feelings.Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Is someone legit wooing every post out of spite or is it another doesnt know woo is bad thing...3 -
PickledBeets8 wrote: »People who advocate "good" foods and "bad" foods are engaging in black or white thinking. They do not recognize the endless shades of gray that truly color our reality.
They also don't realize their lessons will likely not hold for their children. I grew up with the good and bad food mentality. I was shielded from the evils of things like yellow dye no 5 and nitrates. Carob is much healthier than chocolate and ice cream is out because you can have froyo instead. Processed foods were not evil yet so we still ate plenty of canned and frozen items.
The result of this was creating a house full of children that would each go through a "junk food" junkie stage. This is a stage of life I wish I had skipped but I had to learn moderation on my own.0 -
Its a GREAT start. In truth weight loss is almost ALL about what you do in the kitchen, once you cut your calories (making sure to weigh and measure EVERY morsel that goes into your mouth!!!) you will be motivated by seeing some success and then you will naturally want to gravitate to more healthy food choices. Just make sure to be consistent as one day of overeating will blow your entire week of effort. I have been doing this for 16 months and am in maintenance now having lost over 80lbs...just by being completely consistent to weight and measure and stay within my calorie limits every day!!!0
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