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    which is the best diet for overall health and weight loss

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    • Posts: 30,886 Member
      I would agree that those pushing LCHF as a healthy way to eat often promote eating lots of veg, whole foods, higher quality meats, and other things I'd agree with, but of course you don't have to do LCHF like that, and I think it's in conflict with some of the more popular sites that seem to push doing less than 20 g carbs or the idea that always lower (less than 20 g total) is better. As well as some people (Jimmy Moore springs to mind) who actually recommend keeping protein on what I'd consider the lower end.

      Bigger point -- since we agree that LFHC can be done very healthfully and may be an easier or more sustainable way to eat for some, but not others (since that matters) -- is that if you are comparing I think you should compare diets where people are trying to eat healthfully. I'd say a diet where you aren't watching carbs but ARE trying to eat healthfully WOULD include veg at most meals on average (unless you were someone with a pattern where you just ate a ton of veg at one meal or included them as snacks). For some people, maybe making those healthier choices are easier when doing very low carb, since they are limiting their options and would still want some variety. I have never found it hard to include veg when eating at any carb level, so for me that seems odd, but I get that for some that may happen, I still think it's wrong to claim LCHF is more of a vegetable-oriented diet. I'd instead say that any healthy pattern of eating will prioritize vegetables, and LCHF can do this, as other diets can too.
    • Posts: 5,609 Member
      In general I agree. Everything apart from your disagreement of me claiming that LCHF is more of a vegetable-oriented diet. All I am claiming is that the carb aspect of the diet tends to be more veg oriented and that is only a claim based on my own personal experience and other low carb forums and sites I follow. I cannot speak for the millions of other people that find success on a LCHF diet model.
    • Posts: 3,331 Member
      edited May 2018
      Irishman1970 wrote: »
      Bottom line people the sugar industry has paid the right people to convince you fat is bad - why - because there is ALOT of money to be made form producing sugar - but like I said feel free to fill your diet with sugar all you want

      Did you watch Sugarcoated?
    • Posts: 12,019 Member
      tennisdude2004 wrote: »
      In general I agree. Everything apart from your disagreement of me claiming that LCHF is more of a vegetable-oriented diet. All I am claiming is that the carb aspect of the diet tends to be more veg oriented and that is only a claim based on my own personal experience and other low carb forums and sites I follow. I cannot speak for the millions of other people that find success on a LCHF diet model.

      I think you are right in that most low carbers tend to use vegetables as their main carb source. If one tries to keep refined carbs in the diet, your portion sizes decrease dramatically, not to mention fibre decreases.

      Some make LCHF a plant oriented diet, and I agree that it is not all of us. I would say just as many make their diet animal based, with the same health benefits as plant based.
    • Posts: 5,609 Member
      :)
      nvmomketo wrote: »
      show previous quotes

      I think you are right in that most low carbers tend to use vegetables as their main carb source. If one tries to keep refined carbs in the diet, your portion sizes decrease dramatically, not to mention fibre decreases.

      Some make LCHF a plant oriented diet, and I agree that it is not all of us. I would say just as many make their diet animal based, with the same health benefits as plant based.

      Agreed, I’m animal based all the way.

    • Posts: 12,019 Member
      tennisdude2004 wrote: »
      :)
      show previous quotes

      Agreed, I’m animal based all the way.

      "Plant based diet" seems to be the buzz phrase lately. It has that same superior feel to it (for me) that some say they feel when people discuss clean eating or paleo or whatever.

      I feel that when some say plant based diet, that it is implied to be the healthiest or ideal diet. Almost like a pat on the back is expected (again, just my perception).

      I'm not saying that a plant based diet can't be healthy, or that it does not correlate with good nutrition in some healthy cultures, but I dislike the trend towards encouraging more plants and less animal products for everyone... The thinking behind that food pyramid from the 90s just won't die.

      For some reason it is still implied that plant based nutrition trumps animal based nutrition at all times. :confused:
    • Posts: 30,886 Member
      "Plant-based diet" to me is just a way of saying "vegan" that doesn't imply it's being done from ethical considerations or require no longer wearing leather. It doesn't even mean you are eating particularly healthfully, although it usually does tend to correlate with more of a focus on nutrition and health than merely being vegan (as that again may have to do with nothing but concern about animals). (But it's also a common religious discipline -- not so common in the US as eating "no meat but fish," of course -- and for that I wouldn't think it means you are focusing on eating super healthfully.)

      I don't think a plant-based diet is the healthiest or ideal diet (because as mentioned above I don't think such a diet exists, there are many healthy diets and the best is the one that is sustainable and non stressful and enjoyable, and also other lifestyle considerations are probably more important once you have a not terrible diet and a calorie appropriate one).

      That said, I do think eating "mostly plants" is probably healthier than not (I personally would not call that a "plant-based diet"), that eating a significant amount of non-starchy veg and some fruit correlates with positive health outcomes, and that after a point more meat in a diet (especially more high fat or processed meat, like bacon and sausage) tends to have a negative correlation. But that governs my own preferences and way of eating, I don't go around telling people who eat lots of meat (common in the US) that it's bad for them or that they should reduce meat consumption. In fact, I think probably if your diet is otherwise healthful (I'd think eating a good amount of non starchy veg also, and not a ton of low nutrient foods that would crowd out other sources of calories) and you are not overweight and active, that it's probably not even much of a difference. I think for some eating more meat may make those other things easier to achieve.
    • Posts: 12,019 Member
      lemurcat12 wrote: »
      "Plant-based diet" to me is just a way of saying "vegan" that doesn't imply it's being done from ethical considerations or require no longer wearing leather. It doesn't even mean you are eating particularly healthfully, although it usually does tend to correlate with more of a focus on nutrition and health than merely being vegan (as that again may have to do with nothing but concern about animals). (But it's also a common religious discipline -- not so common in the US as eating "no meat but fish," of course -- and for that I wouldn't think it means you are focusing on eating super healthfully.)

      I don't think a plant-based diet is the healthiest or ideal diet (because as mentioned above I don't think such a diet exists, there are many healthy diets and the best is the one that is sustainable and non stressful and enjoyable, and also other lifestyle considerations are probably more important once you have a not terrible diet and a calorie appropriate one).

      That said, I do think eating "mostly plants" is probably healthier than not (I personally would not call that a "plant-based diet"), that eating a significant amount of non-starchy veg and some fruit correlates with positive health outcomes, and that after a point more meat in a diet (especially more high fat or processed meat, like bacon and sausage) tends to have a negative correlation. But that governs my own preferences and way of eating, I don't go around telling people who eat lots of meat (common in the US) that it's bad for them or that they should reduce meat consumption. In fact, I think probably if your diet is otherwise healthful (I'd think eating a good amount of non starchy veg also, and not a ton of low nutrient foods that would crowd out other sources of calories) and you are not overweight and active, that it's probably not even much of a difference. I think for some eating more meat may make those other things easier to achieve.

      So true. I completely agree with the bolded. :) And that starchy or refined foods can crowd out the veg - hat is likely where low carbers who have increased their veg intake are coming from.

      As an aside on terminology, I've always thought plant based meant it was a mostly plant diet: not having meat at every meal or the focus of all meals. I think of animal based as animal products being the basis for most meals like bacon and eggs, or a big steak with a side salad... In my mind, plant based might be a small steak cut up on a salad, plus a bun or potato. Or a vegetarian chili with a bit of cheese, whereas the animal based one would remove the beans, keep some of the celery or peppers, and (of course) add cheese on top. ;)
    • Posts: 30,886 Member
      nvmomketo wrote: »
      show previous quotes

      So true. I completely agree with the bolded. :) And that starchy or refined foods can crowd out the veg - hat is likely where low carbers who have increased their veg intake are coming from.

      Yeah, I'm just saying that if you compare healthy diets, a healthy or nutrition-focused moderate or high carb diet wouldn't crowd out veg with starchy or refined foods. But on the bigger point it seems we agree anyway.
      As an aside on terminology, I've always thought plant based meant it was a mostly plant diet: not having meat at every meal or the focus of all meals.

      I think some use it that way, but mostly these days I see it used to mean diet without animal foods, but in diet only, not a vegan (which is an ethical thing). I think it's kind of a dumb term in that I also think one can eat a mostly plant diet (and thus a "plant-based" one) without cutting out meat and dairy and eggs, but I'm bowing to standard/common usage, at least where I live, and it is a useful term in that "vegan" assumes an ethical commitment and no animal products in clothes or skin creams or whatnot too.
      I think of animal based as animal products being the basis for most meals like bacon and eggs, or a big steak with a side salad...

      That just seems like the all-American midwestern diet I grew up with! ;-)

      I'm not debating the "plant-based" term, btw, I just think it's used in different ways and was clarifying how I was using it/usually interpret it.
    • Posts: 2,072 Member
      The one that you can stick to for the rest of your life and keeps you healthy. It's different for everyone.
    • Posts: 5,609 Member
      snowflake954 wrote: »
      show previous quotes

      Hi Dude--welcome back. I was wondering what happened to you. The forums have been tamer since you left. Still on a meat based diet I see. I would just like to comment on the blue zones in Italy. Pasta is a basic here, so is pizza, so I guess they're not that inflammatory, or the "healthy" foods are cancelling them out.

      Hey Snowflake, yep I'm still here :)

      For sanity reasons I took a break from the forums (only to replace them with Brexit ones instead lol).

      And yes I'm still a carnivore at heart.

      I have noticed that the forums seem a little different (more polite).

      Hope you and yours are well.



    • Posts: 8,399 Member
      tennisdude2004 wrote: »
      show previous quotes

      Hey Snowflake, yep I'm still here :)

      For sanity reasons I took a break from the forums (only to replace them with Brexit ones instead lol).

      And yes I'm still a carnivore at heart.

      I have noticed that the forums seem a little different (more polite).

      Hope you and yours are well.



      The forums are polite--for a reason. Everything has changed. Back to the OP. The very "best" diet? Hmmm, hard to say because things change. I like the idea that I had growing up, a well-ballanced diet. This means a bit of this and that, without demonizing or eliminating any food group. I find that the macro split that MFP gives me is perfect. I personally eat the Med way because I live here.
    This discussion has been closed.

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