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Keto diet = good or bad
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Started Keto in January lost good the first couple of weeks then it was very very slow. I tracked everything, didn't have cheat days, mostly cheat occasions and the sometimes weekend cocktails I wasn't as strict as some are like worrying about all the ingredients in stuff but I did stick to low carb. At this point I've lost 35 lbs and I'm now back to mfp logging my foods, still staying low carb around 50-100 instead of the 20 for keto. We will see how it goes. What was great about Keto was that it got rid of the cravings for breads, sweets, sugar it has made it easier for me now to continue on with this journey of weight loss.9
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GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Of course there is merit in studying causes of obesity - research into the reasons people overeat and developing medical/behavioral/motivational interventions to assist with those issues is critical to improving the health and longevity for a majority of the population. It doesn't negate the fact that the root cause of weight gain is more calories in than calories out.
Understanding the root cause(s) of overeating is not the same thing as understanding the root cause of weight gain.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@wmd1979 calories have never been the 'root' cause of obesity nor will become the root cause. No calories have ever jumped into my mouth. They are not like evil and we have to do battle with them daily.
The question is more like why do I overate calories. What about the things in our gut that is telling our brain what they want us to eat. Keto has been breaking cravings for the macros that are bad for our health longer than any of us have been alive.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496172/
"....By revisiting the causes for obesity, especially those stated by the leading health organisms, this article makes the case to view obesity as a consequence of disturbing the auto-regulation of hormones related to fat production and accumulation by diet composition, in particular that produced by industrialized processed food...."
The idea that macronutrients, devoid of any context related to lifestyle and portion size, are bad for your health is just ridiculous. You're terrified of bananas and spinach and you think your "gut" is telling your brain to eat them. Step back, man.
But if his gut is telling his brain to eat them then Gale doesn't have to take any actual personal responsibility in becoming overweight. Some people will come up with every excuse in the book besides accepting the fact that they just didn't exhibit the best willpower at times.13 -
Understanding the root cause(s) of overeating is not the same thing as understanding the root cause of weight gain.
^^^This @GaleHawkins and @rsclause
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@wmd1979 calories have never been the 'root' cause of obesity nor will become the root cause. No calories have ever jumped into my mouth. They are not like evil and we have to do battle with them daily.
The question is more like why do I overate calories. What about the things in our gut that is telling our brain what they want us to eat. Keto has been breaking cravings for the macros that are bad for our health longer than any of us have been alive.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496172/
"....By revisiting the causes for obesity, especially those stated by the leading health organisms, this article makes the case to view obesity as a consequence of disturbing the auto-regulation of hormones related to fat production and accumulation by diet composition, in particular that produced by industrialized processed food...."
The idea that macronutrients, devoid of any context related to lifestyle and portion size, are bad for your health is just ridiculous. You're terrified of bananas and spinach and you think your "gut" is telling your brain to eat them. Step back, man.
But if his gut is telling his brain to eat them then Gale doesn't have to take any actual personal responsibility in becoming overweight. Some people will come up with every excuse in the book besides accepting the fact that they just didn't exhibit the best willpower at times.
To be fair, IMO, willpower is a limited resource. That said, I don't understand why it is so bad to say that (insert diet) suits my preferences and lifestyle and to that end, helps me eat less and stay in an energy deficit. I don't get why there seemingly always has to be some magical property attached to (insert diet)...14 -
charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
The diet she described was absolutely not Keto. She said she eats a lot of vegetables, tries to avoid sugar, and targets more protein than fat. That is not the Keto diet.
The Keto diet is:
1. A fixed, extremely low carb amount, regardless of source.
2. Moderate protein intake
3. High fat intake
If someone is not doing that, then it is not the Keto diet.
These plates have 20g of carbs on them. A keto'er could eat one, two or even three of these plates a day and stay in ketosis. Or none, like me.
And I'm a few years into this woe.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@wmd1979 calories have never been the 'root' cause of obesity nor will become the root cause. No calories have ever jumped into my mouth. They are not like evil and we have to do battle with them daily.
The question is more like why do I overate calories. What about the things in our gut that is telling our brain what they want us to eat. Keto has been breaking cravings for the macros that are bad for our health longer than any of us have been alive.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496172/
"....By revisiting the causes for obesity, especially those stated by the leading health organisms, this article makes the case to view obesity as a consequence of disturbing the auto-regulation of hormones related to fat production and accumulation by diet composition, in particular that produced by industrialized processed food...."
What macros are bad for health?
The ones that make you health worse
This is why ones own n=1 results are mission critical.
and those are...?
That's going to be highly individual and based on an individual's health. Someone with IR may do better with low carbs. Someone with autoimmune diseases or arthritis may find their symptoms are improved with very few carbs and worsened with more carbs. The n=1 is the key. What works for Gale, or me, may not work for you.
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charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
The diet she described was absolutely not Keto. She said she eats a lot of vegetables, tries to avoid sugar, and targets more protein than fat. That is not the Keto diet.
The Keto diet is:
1. A fixed, extremely low carb amount, regardless of source.
2. Moderate protein intake
3. High fat intake
If someone is not doing that, then it is not the Keto diet.
These plates have 20g of carbs on them. A keto'er could eat one, two or even three of these plates a day and stay in ketosis. Or none, like me. And I'm a few years into this woe.
I actually question thr accuracy of those pictures. Mainly because i regularly eat peppers, which average 150-200g which is around 7-10g of carb. If you add in tomatoes and a zucchini, (my average zucchini was 9-12oz at 12g) it would probably be over 20g. Or did they mean net carbs? But even then i would question it.
Maybe i need to do an experiment to see the accuracy and take a picture. I suspect its a bit deceiving.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@wmd1979 calories have never been the 'root' cause of obesity nor will become the root cause. No calories have ever jumped into my mouth. They are not like evil and we have to do battle with them daily.
The question is more like why do I overate calories. What about the things in our gut that is telling our brain what they want us to eat. Keto has been breaking cravings for the macros that are bad for our health longer than any of us have been alive.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496172/
"....By revisiting the causes for obesity, especially those stated by the leading health organisms, this article makes the case to view obesity as a consequence of disturbing the auto-regulation of hormones related to fat production and accumulation by diet composition, in particular that produced by industrialized processed food...."
What macros are bad for health?
The ones that make you health worse
This is why ones own n=1 results are mission critical.
and those are...?
That's going to be highly individual and based on an individual's health. Someone with IR may do better with low carbs. Someone with autoimmune diseases or arthritis may find their symptoms are improved with very few carbs and worsened with more carbs. The n=1 is the key. What works for Gale, or me, may not work for you.
True but Gale said, "Keto has been breaking cravings for the macros that are bad for our health longer than any of us have been alive..."
He turned an "I" into an "our"...
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Some of the posts here read like templates
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charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
The diet she described was absolutely not Keto. She said she eats a lot of vegetables, tries to avoid sugar, and targets more protein than fat. That is not the Keto diet.
The Keto diet is:
1. A fixed, extremely low carb amount, regardless of source.
2. Moderate protein intake
3. High fat intake
If someone is not doing that, then it is not the Keto diet.
These plates have 20g of carbs on them. A keto'er could eat one, two or even three of these plates a day and stay in ketosis. Or none, like me. And I'm a few years into this woe.
I actually question thr accuracy of those pictures. Mainly because i regularly eat peppers, which average 150-200g which is around 7-10g of carb. If you add in tomatoes and a zucchini, (my average zucchini was 9-12oz at 12g) it would probably be over 20g. Or did they mean net carbs? But even then i would question it.
Maybe i need to do an experiment to see the accuracy and take a picture. I suspect its a bit deceiving.
I suspect the plates are very small and it's a close up.1 -
soufauxgirl wrote: »Some of the posts here read like templates
Agreed.
At this point it's basically a grudge match.
"I can be more stubborn and make my point more times than you can, so neener neener neener!"7 -
charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
The diet she described was absolutely not Keto. She said she eats a lot of vegetables, tries to avoid sugar, and targets more protein than fat. That is not the Keto diet.
The Keto diet is:
1. A fixed, extremely low carb amount, regardless of source.
2. Moderate protein intake
3. High fat intake
If someone is not doing that, then it is not the Keto diet.
These plates have 20g of carbs on them. A keto'er could eat one, two or even three of these plates a day and stay in ketosis. Or none, like me. And I'm a few years into this woe.
Nobody who truly eats a lot of vegetables would consider one of those plates to be "lots of vegetables." That's like the salad that someone who actually eats a lot of vegetables eats before eating the rest of their vegetables.
Not knocking keto, but it's not a lifestyle that is compatible with eating lots of vegetables.
If someone is coming from a diet pattern of not really eating vegetables, getting 20 grams of carbohydrates from vegetables may seem like a lot of vegetables. That's what I suspect is happening when keto people self-describe as eating a lot of vegetables. But I added 20 grams of carbohydrates from vegetables to just my dinner last night on a whim (cabbage and cucumber salad) and that was in addition to the carrots, onion, tomato, and lettuce I was already eating so I am not buying that keto people are truly eating vegetables in abundance.17 -
You better understand it and follow it closely. Too many Go on a Keto diet and they are not sure what they are doing. I had a friend try it long ago. He lost a ton of weight, that's because he nearly died and was in the hospital for 3 weeks. He looked sickly when he got out and he was so weak he could barely stand up.4
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charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
You can find people who have had weight loss success without calorie counting with the cabbage soup diet, the military diet, and breatharianism. That doesn't mean any of those diets have special weight loss effects beyond a calorie deficit.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.19 -
charlene77 wrote: »My husband just lost 70 pounds on Keto! He was supposed to start blood pressure medication in March. His blood pressure is down to 125/70.
He walked in the doctors office today and the doctor was thrilled as soon as he saw him. When he told him what he did, he said he is excited to see his blood work as he thinks his numbers are going to be good.
I’ve started Keto. I am down 31 pounds.
Don’t listen to everyone that says Keto is all about eating bacon.
I eat a ton of veggies everyday. I am actually aiming for higher protein than fat, unlike like many Keto people. I just stay away from sugar and don’t stress about it.
Maybe I should be considered low carb instead of Keto, since I am not into fatty meats.
You both lost weight not because of Keto. You simply lost weight due to calorie deficit. Its that simple.
So predictable, when someone has success with a keto WOE a flurry of following post will claim keto had nothing to do with it. For the record keto has nothing to do with my 22 pound loss and it was effortless with no calorie counting.
But its the truth!!!! I am not talking about any health benefits, and there are some. But weight loss???? Come on, its all about calorie deficit and nothing else.
But what if my deficit is better than your deficit?17 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
In all fairness, you don't really know how effective it is for you still in terms of maintenance. Hopefully, its successful but time will tell.
Calorie counting helped me lose the first 50, but it doesn't work for me now. So i am working on modifying foods to get around 10% from 18% bf.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO is what is causing your weight loss even in the context of you doing keto. It's the way everyone loses weight, gains weight, or maintains their weight.
That doesn't mean that counting calories will be a good solution for everyone. It clearly isn't. Some people lack the ability to track their intake accurately, some people are unwilling to stay within their calorie limit, some people resume their pattern of eating more than they need after their initial weight loss. None of these mean that CICO isn't still happening. CICO is how you lost weight before, CICO is how you regained weight, CICO is how you are losing weight now.11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://nutritiouslife.com/eat-empowered/food-cravings-really-mean/
@jjpptt2 the above is just a quick find that can help us all learn how to dig deeper on this subject. As noted this is relative a new discovery for most of us.
Just learning calories was not the root cause of my 40 years of obesity has been helpful already.
Calories were the root cause of your obesity though, specifically, too many of them. You can continue to blame cravings or specific foods all you like, but the simple fact was you ate too much. You'll gain weight if you eat too many calories on keto too, and that is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.
Well no point in studying patients with obesity or it's cause because you have it figured out. Just think of the money that can be saved because you have ruled out genetics and hormonal issues completely.
Genetics and hormonal issues don't invalidate CICO. If a person loses weight, it is because they are at a calorie deficit, not because the magical keto fairy removed their fat stores in the middle of the night. Just think of the money that could be saved if people could understand this one basic principle instead of jumping from one fad diet to the next.
For the record the keto or LCHF WOE is the only diet I have ever tried other than calorie deficit or restriction. I lost 50 pounds and then gained 30 back. So I failed or CICO failed whatever. It didn't seem like it was sustainable for me and I really didn't like it. I am down 22 pounds now and the questions that remain are is this new WOE sustainable and are there any negative effects to be found. Not everyone will like it but my wife and I do. I hope the magical keto fairy keeps visiting us each night for a long time.
CICO can't fail, it is simply an equation which determines whether you will gain, lose, or maintain weight. When your CI is greater than CO, you will gain weight, which is what happened when you gained thirty pounds back. The reason you are down 22 pounds now is because your CI is less than your CO. Keto may be more sustainable for you because it helps you to adhere to a calorie deficit, but the reason you are losing weight is because of that very deficit. This is what I feel you are failing to understand, is that it is not the carb restriction which is causing you to lose weight, it is the calorie deficit. I personally have nothing against keto even though I know it would not be sustainable for me. I just think it would be of great benefit for people on this site to understand why they lose, gain, or maintain weight instead of being filled with misinformation which is what happens a lot when discussing keto.13
This discussion has been closed.
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