Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

Calorie deniers

Options
1234568»

Replies

  • SVZee
    SVZee Posts: 76 Member
    edited December 2018
    Options
    rsclause wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    learners0permit wrote: »
    L1zardQueen wrote: »
    koppimaggie wrote: »
    I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.

    How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.

    I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.

    Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.

    I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.

    I've been in maintenance for over 5 years now (went off track this year and gained a few pounds, but still at a very healthy weight even with the gain, with a current bmi of 22.8), and I've been on and off MFP during that time-really the forums get tedious and repetitive after a while and I can't imagine staying on here consistently for the years and years of maintenance, though I know a few have.

    I'd also be curious to know how many here currently have been maintaining a loss for over 5 years. Would be an interesting poll :)
  • amberellen12
    amberellen12 Posts: 248 Member
    Options
    Yes start a poll. I would like to know how many have maintain too and how they did it and what plan, if any, they followed.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,037 Member
    Options
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    @learners0permit

    Lemur, GottaBurn, Anvil, Tackle, Snicker are some of my favorite posters hands down (I'm sure I left off a few so apologies) so I usually always agree or take their posts as a stepping off platform to learn.

    I did go to intuitiveeating.org to see what the difference between intuitive and mindful eating and how they are defined other than just knowing the word differences. In particular I looked at the 10 principles of intuitive eating.

    I don't disagree with most of the principles of intuitive eating (IF this is what you are talking about) except I have a big problem with #5. Most don't understand eating until full or eating only when hungry. I think that's the part that these wise posters are trying to point out is the flaw with "intuitive" eating if I may speak for them.

    Speaking strictly for myself I don't know intuitivly (defined as without conscious reasoning; instinctively) know when I'm full or hungry. I only know this by being more mindful of what I eat and how much of it I eat and to a lesser degree what I eat.

    https://www.intuitiveeating.org/10-principles-of-intuitive-eating/

    That link was an interesting and thought-provoking addition to this "intuitive eating" sub-thread IMO. I'm circling back to it partly in response to some of the more recent posts on the thread.

    I read the 10 principles, and didn't really see anything wrong with any of them, but overall felt they were written for someone who is clearly and emphatically not me. Only 5, 6, and 10 have any practical use for me at all, and even for those I have to stand back and squint in order to find it.

    I don't feel self-hate for over-eating, I don't do a bunch of emotional eating, I didn't hate my body even when it was fat, I exercised a good lot even while obese, I don't deprive myself, I don't demonize foods, I haven't done a fad diet in decades (at least; I don't have any clear memory of doing one even as a teenager; portion control and/or rough calorie-estimating was my main strategy previously, and that was rare), etc. This list is not talking to me (which is not intended as any implied judgement of people whom it is talking to).

    My problem with food is mostly liking it, plus hedonism and self-indulgence as a general character fault. I like food, it's tasty, and I will readily eat more of it (for my immediate pleasure) than is good for me (for my long term health). Recognizing the health warning signs as I got older was what led me to finally decide to lose weight, and mean it. Calorie counting helps me manage my inner hedonist to balance the short and long term happiness.

    As others have said, it's like having a financial budget so you make sure you can take a vacation and still pay the rent, while saving for retirement - or whatever your personal goals happen to be. Oddly, I can do most of that money stuff "intuitively" without a formal financial budget, but eating will get away from me without more structure.

    I'm in maintenance year 3, BTW, BMI typically 22-point-something, age 63, still counting most days, and monitoring with with Libra.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
    Options
    For me it was taking my eye off the ball. I was okay with monitoring my calories but when my running decreased from my 30+ weekly the scale began moving up. I really didn't want to go back to counting everything I ate calorie by calorie. I never thought about LCHF WOE but stumbled across it and thought I would research it. I like what I saw and it has had a positive effect on me in weight loss, blood work numbers and the way I feel full. Time will tell if it will be successful long term but that's the plan.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    Options
    middlehaitch wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    rsclause wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    learners0permit wrote: »
    L1zardQueen wrote: »
    koppimaggie wrote: »
    I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.

    How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.

    I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.

    Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.

    I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.

    It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
    I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).

    Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.

    Your not the only one.

    I am just hitting 9 years of maintenance and haven’t logged since 2010 on a continuos basis.
    I have logged for a couple of weeks here and there to check my cal increase when my activity level changes, but that is it.

    I hang around to keep my Interested in exercise, my weak spot.
    Even though I have done it for 10yr now it doesn’t come natural or easy, and I’m too old not too.

    Cheers, h.

    Chapeau young lady!
    It does become a habit doesn't it? I'd miss some of my online friends too.

    I'm a bit weird and still log my exercise calories to stay calorie aware. Exercise is my strong point as I really enjoy it, it's the food side of the equation that has the power to trip me up.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    Options
    sijomial wrote: »
    rsclause wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    learners0permit wrote: »
    L1zardQueen wrote: »
    koppimaggie wrote: »
    I think calorie counting is another form of dieting. It may work short term, but research doesn’t show it to be sustainable for long term weight loss.

    How so? Lots of long term successful people here on MFP.

    I’m more speaking of what research shows. I’m not sure the statistics of how many people keep off the weight for 5+ years just on this app.

    Most of the veterans posting here have been maintaining several years, I'm not sure how many are over 5 yet.

    I have a feeling that the successful maintainers stay around and the ones that can't maintain get bored and leave. I would love to what those number are.

    It would be interesting. Could be that the educational aspects of calorie counting which persist long after the need to log has gone may equip people better for future long term maintenance but that's just a guess.
    I don't know anyone in real life that is actively calorie counting but the majority of people I know are maintaining their weight (but obviously not all maintaining at a good weight!).

    Christmas Eve will be my 6 year anniversary of maintaining, stopped food logging ages ago and only stay due to my interest in exercise/training/fitness. I can't be the only person that only needed (or wanted) to calorie count for weight loss but don't need that level of accuracy to maintain.

    I'll be 6 years in spring. Well, more or less...I typically put on a good 5-10 Lbs over the winter and strip it off in the spring. I'm up 6 Lbs right now due in large part to a string of injuries and aggravations late summer through the end of October. I'm holding right now which is a positive sign given this is when I usually put on weight.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    gatherum89 wrote: »
    I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.

    If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.

    First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.

    I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.

    So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Options
    I'm at 4.5 years since joining and 3.5 at maintenance. I log, but do so afterwards as I have developed habits along the way to ensure I don't eat at surplus over time.

    I log primarily to ensure I get enough calories to fuel workouts and hit my protein and carb goals.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    gatherum89 wrote: »
    I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.

    If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.

    First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.

    I have looked at some videos but haven't needed to pay for any although some authors do pan handle a bit for a donation. I wouldn't do any weight loss strategy that involves me paying someone for me to loss weight. Any WOE or calorie restriction is free. My father in law always said "you can get anything in this world for three payments of $29.95"
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    edited December 2018
    Options
    rsclause wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    gatherum89 wrote: »
    I’m probably preaching to the choir here. But has anyone else seen these people on YouTube or articles on the web talking about how counting calories does not work. This is some seriously dangerous misinformation that try’s to really over complicate things for no reason, que fog horn sound. Is counting calories to harsh of a reality for most people to deal with. I’ve lost almost 100 pounds using a caloric deficit, And this stuff just makes me facepalm over and over again.

    If you want to sell something and there is a cheaper alternative on the market then part of your marketing strategy will be to discredit the cheaper alternative. Nothing is cheaper than free and calorie counting is free....it just requires discipline.

    First suspicion about someone producing videos online stating calorie counting doesn't work is that they are selling something.

    I have heard pro keto doctors say "Calorie restriction does not work" however it was not related to marketing something other than maybe a book. The thought process is along the lines of as you restrict calories your metabolism slows to reduce your deficit. Than when the restriction stops you gain back all you lost.

    So when I hear this I wonder what the actual numbers are. There are many on MFP that seem to maintain and others that complain their weight loss was temporary. It makes sense that if we go back to whatever eating pattern made us gain weight in the first place we will also gain again. It also makes sense that as people see a weight loss slow or stall they get discouraged and lose their will to remain in deficit. So when a doctor says that caloric reduction does not work is it just a generalization based on patient observation or has some study been done that shows dismal success rates? To me a broad statement like that deserves some scrutiny unless it can be backed up with something like a lopsided percentage from study results. Assuming such a study exists.
    Regarding the bolded section....
    I had some adaptive thermogenesis (if that's what you mean by"metabolism slows") during my weight loss, but within a couple of months at maintenance it reversed itself completely without any deliberate intervention - I started losing weight at what was my initial maintenance calorie allowance.

    My restriction stopped, I returned to eating the way I ate before my weight loss and I remained in my maintenance range. These days I'm eating more than ever (about 3,300 today) due to increased exercise and activity.
    The future doesn't have be as bleak as people seem to think.

    Unlike many though I was maintaining before I lost weight, just maintaining 30lbs too fat. It's a bit different if people were having a prolonged upwards weight trend. I didn't need a lifestyle change (horribly overused phrase!) - some people clearly do though or weight loss will unfortunately be temporary.

Categories