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Body Positive Movement - For or against?
Replies
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brittanystebbins95 wrote: »I'm all for loving our bodies, but I don't think its right to celebrate being fat. All we are doing is teaching the younger generations to care less about their health. Do I think we should criticize people for being overweight? Absolutely not, but we shouldn't be promoting obesity either.
In my opinion (and this is probably a very unpopular opinion) if you TRULY love your body, you will do what you can to make sure that it is healthy.
I eat right and exercise BECAUSE I love my body- not because I hate it.
Why would you think this is unpopular; it is much like what most other posters said. I have not seen one person here saying they celebrate obesity or promote it.
I basically agree with what amusedmonkey says just above, but that's obviously not promoting obesity.
I do think that for some people, likely not most of those who need to lose, focusing on weight loss can become a frustrating thing that feels impossible and is tied up in feelings of self hatred. For them, focusing on different aspects of health and trying to address other eating issues (often there's a binge and purge or extreme restrict and then binge thing going on) not only will help with body positivity and health, but IMO often leads to weight loss as well.2 -
brittanystebbins95 wrote: »I'm all for loving our bodies, but I don't think its right to celebrate being fat. All we are doing is teaching the younger generations to care less about their health. Do I think we should criticize people for being overweight? Absolutely not, but we shouldn't be promoting obesity either.
In my opinion (and this is probably a very unpopular opinion) if you TRULY love your body, you will do what you can to make sure that it is healthy.
I eat right and exercise BECAUSE I love my body- not because I hate it.
Why would you think this is unpopular; it is much like what most other posters said. I have not seen one person here saying they celebrate obesity or promote it.
I basically agree with what amusedmonkey says just above, but that's obviously not promoting obesity.
I do think that for some people, likely not most of those who need to lose, focusing on weight loss can become a frustrating thing that feels impossible and is tied up in feelings of self hatred. For them, focusing on different aspects of health and trying to address other eating issues (often there's a binge and purge or extreme restrict and then binge thing going on) not only will help with body positivity and health, but IMO often leads to weight loss as well.
Not so much here, but everywhere else it seems to be unpopular. But here is filled with people trying to better themselves and live healthier lifestyles. Now, Facebook, for example? Heaven forbid anyone mentions being healthy, or you're suddenly bigoted or "fat-shaming"4 -
To circle back around: I would give anything to feel good in my own skin. I envy those who love their bodies, no matter what shape.11
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Boba_14626 wrote: »To circle back around: I would give anything to feel good in my own skin. I envy those who love their bodies, no matter what shape.
I don't think it's as much loving our bodies as it is learning to accept ourselves as we are. What you see in the mirror is not who you are. I personally believe that as long as anyone is looking at appearance only, they will never truly come to terms with the fact that Hey - there just might be a person worth knowing in there.
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Boba_14626 wrote: »To circle back around: I would give anything to feel good in my own skin. I envy those who love their bodies, no matter what shape.
I don't think it's as much loving our bodies as it is learning to accept ourselves as we are. What you see in the mirror is not who you are. I personally believe that as long as anyone is looking at appearance only, they will never truly come to terms with the fact that Hey - there just might be a person worth knowing in there.
Agreed.
One thing that helped me when I first decided to lose (and was feeling out of control and paranoid that it wouldn't work for me) was to decide that I was going to be as healthy as possible, no matter my weight. So I did cut calories, improved nutrition somewhat (mostly by cooking more), and started an exercise program (based around being nice to myself, not my old habit of immediately thinking I could keep up some punishing workout), and then gradually increased workouts until I was into all kinds of training goals.
I did lose weight, of course, but what was amazing is how quickly I felt far better about my body, even more than when I'd been much thinner (as a younger person) but fixated on my flaws. It was because I was so much more focused on what I could do, and achieving achievable goals, and not beating myself up or focusing so much on appearance or what I thought others thought.
Before I did any of this, I also I think came to terms with the fact that I did basically like myself as a person (although one who could certainly work on many things), and was able to use the areas I felt confident in (research skills, basic intelligence, discipline in a variety of things) to apply to my weight/fitness too. I tried to stop thinking of my body as something separate from me, but instead part of me, as one whole person.7 -
Boba_14626 wrote: »To circle back around: I would give anything to feel good in my own skin. I envy those who love their bodies, no matter what shape.
I don't think it's as much loving our bodies as it is learning to accept ourselves as we are. What you see in the mirror is not who you are. I personally believe that as long as anyone is looking at appearance only, they will never truly come to terms with the fact that Hey - there just might be a person worth knowing in there.
Agreed.
One thing that helped me when I first decided to lose (and was feeling out of control and paranoid that it wouldn't work for me) was to decide that I was going to be as healthy as possible, no matter my weight. So I did cut calories, improved nutrition somewhat (mostly by cooking more), and started an exercise program (based around being nice to myself, not my old habit of immediately thinking I could keep up some punishing workout), and then gradually increased workouts until I was into all kinds of training goals.
I did lose weight, of course, but what was amazing is how quickly I felt far better about my body, even more than when I'd been much thinner (as a younger person) but fixated on my flaws. It was because I was so much more focused on what I could do, and achieving achievable goals, and not beating myself up or focusing so much on appearance or what I thought others thought.
Before I did any of this, I also I think came to terms with the fact that I did basically like myself as a person (although one who could certainly work on many things), and was able to use the areas I felt confident in (research skills, basic intelligence, discipline in a variety of things) to apply to my weight/fitness too. I tried to stop thinking of my body as something separate from me, but instead part of me, as one whole person.
That's quite the journey. And I love what I bolded at the bottom there. That's a huge step to take and I love hearing stories like yours. I've been seeing my daughter go through a very similar Journey so yours is very inspiring. 🙂3 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »seltzermint555 wrote: »It's good to love yourself, no matter what. Accepting different body types is great. Shaming doesn't help anyone, and if it does, it's a rare and somewhat twisted case indeed. But I also think it's important not to go overboard with this "all bodies are beautiful" message and lose all common sense and think it's perfectly healthy for an average human to weigh 500 lb. Balance is key as with most things.
If ever this is deemed necessary this should always be limited to behavior and not the individual.
It is critical to point out that people are not their behavior, something missing from our collective ideology and having a horrendous result.
I have a little trouble with this sentiment. People who murder aren't murderers? I understand not punishing an addict for their behavior, and, I suppose, overeating is an addiction in many rights if not all of them. Still... having trouble finding the words.
I don't think people should be shamed... but I think our actions dictate who we are as people. People who chronically overeat and undermove are obese... I'm all over the place. Nevermind!
Your reaction is natural and I struggle with the same issue. Boils down to hate the sin, but love the sinner. If you don't separate the act from the actor, then you remove all chance of redemption. There is a good deal of risk mitigation at play here, so while criminal assault would demand some manner of punishment, there is no such need with less risky or offensive behavior.
There is increasing evidence that addiction is merely a symptom of a deeper root cause - loss of purpose.
Johann Hari has been studying this behavior in drug addiction, but I believe his hypothesis is correct and his solution would address several other symptoms - obesity, depression, etc.
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en3 -
I am against. I am also against body shaming. But, I will never tell someone who is unhealthy that they are fine. I have been there, and I know it is not fine. Live and let live is a motto I stand by, but, if you ask me, I will tell you.9
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I'd say everybody needs to just tend to their own damn business. A fanatics are bad no matter what their particular brand of fanaticism happens to be.
But this whole "glorifying obesity" thing is wrong. Too many folks sick and dying from it. So we're back to minding one's own business. Ridiculing folks is simply mean and wrong. Telling them, "It's ok that you're morbidly obese" is simply mean and wrong too.
Live your life, and stay the hell out of everybody elses unless you're helping them in a goal that "they have set for themselves!". Seems simple to me.
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100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.15
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dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.19 -
Boba_14626 wrote: »Body positive is great. I think its very important to feel comfortable is your own skin. As a person who's body image opinion is terrible, I envy those who feel good about themselves. That being said, body positive is one thing...health positive is another.
Agree - one's mind is strong, why not using it? I would just add "mind positive" as well. Trying to lose weight and being generally negative about one's life does not help at all. Not always easy, but at least I try to start my day with a positive thought.3 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
So you didn't read the thread?19 -
I think there is so much debate over the body positivity movement because it's a lot more complex than just "love your body lol"
Here's my take -
The good:
Everybody's got their vice. Everybody struggles with something. Shaming someone for wanting to live their life and enjoy the same things everyone else enjoys is pretty sad. This includes things like clothing, jobs, dating, walking down the street, etc. etc. The big point of body positivity is you should love yourself no matter what, and that's true. Nobody walks up to someone who struggles with money and goes "you should hate yourself, stop taking care of yourself, until you fix your vice". Like, what? Everyone should be allowed to love and live life despite a behavioral issue. It's just that people who struggle with eating carry their vice with them wherever they go, and that sucks, but it doesn't mean life should stop.
Someone being told they should lose weight out of "concern" when you barely know the person is also sad. Leave the concern for people who would actually care and be around to see the results. Concern trolling, I think it's called. Getting somebody to feel bad about themselves "out of concern for their well-being" when you probably wouldn't even care whether or not they did anything.
The gray area:
My thoughts on accommodations for those who are significantly overweight: I think companies are more than welcome to, but shouldn't have to. Of course, because so many people struggle with weight, it's probably a poor money decision to not accommodate people who are significantly overweight. Clothing is generally the best example of this. A lot more stores have been offering plus sizes as of late.
However, someone demanding or insisting on larger seats on airplanes, etc, like it's a human rights violation goes too far, imo (although most people who do this probably belong in "the bad", see below). Sometimes there are consequences to vices when they impact others. Smokers have to stand outside, significantly overweight people have to buy two seats.
Again, it's gray area, one could argue that there should be some accommodation, but I don't necessarily agree. The only place I would agree is in hospital treatment, where someone doesn't really have a choice to go elsewhere.
The bad:
There's a splinter group of the body positivity movement (more the fat acceptance movement) that believes overeating is not a vice, that obese is their "natural" state, and in fact that intentional weight loss is fundamentally harmful to the body and akin to starving. They're a small group, but also a loud group, and therefore get a lot of attention. I think these people are delusional. They think that because they're "perfectly healthy" in their 20's while obese, that they'll remain that way and that obesity is not a comorbidity for numerous diseases. They'll do anything in their power to convince people that sustained weight loss is not possible, and have "thin allies" like Linda Bacon try to convince people that you crave foods because you "need" them and moderation is a societal pressure.
They're really kind of separate from actual body positivity, but use the movement for their own gains, pun not intended but I chortled.
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Well said @RelCanonical0
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I think it is too easy for people to distort what it could mean and pin someone else's claims on someone under the label to answer directly.
When someone uses it to mean lying or denying objective facts like that obesity and overweight are predictive of health risks, I don't agree with that - I don't believe in that kind of misinformation that can hurt people. I just as easily disagree with fat shaming for the same reason - there's evidence to suggest shaming makes it worse, so people that say they're shaming to encourage weight loss are lying or at best misinformed.
When it has to do with removing value judgments about others, I am in favor of body positivity. I don't think I can tell others what to value when it doesn't involve them harming me. If someone is aware of all the potential outcomes possible from obesity but still values the comfort of a certain intake of food over removing those issues, I don't think I can tell them they're wrong to have that preference. I think people have to have ultimate bodily autonomy, that they are their bodies and their bodies do not belong to anyone else - they have no obligation to be a certain weight for anyone else.10 -
I think the idea of body positivity is good. Everyone has the right to feel good about themselves.
However, a lot of people claiming body positivity are only advocating for the overweight/obese people as being able to body positive. The idea that the movement is only for one population to be able to feel good about themselves is not true body positivity. Also, the backlash some of the body positive community gives to its members who try to lose weight is wrong. Wanting to improve your body does not mean you hate your body.
As long as there are highly vocal people within the movement who advocate against people losing weight when they actually need to lose weight, there will be a lot of people against the movement who may have otherwise supported it.3 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
So you didn't read the thread?
I've read plenty from the pro-obesity crowd and I'm 100% against it.20 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.14 -
You have to love yourself in order to respect and improve yourself. Sometimes change starts with finding what you like about yourself and expanding on that.
No one has the right to look down on anyone. If all anyone ever feels is negativity from themselves and the world around them they will never be in the right mindset to make meaningful lasting change.
Embrace yourself, embrace others, it does not mean that you continue bad habits or get stuck, it means you can love yourself while you are getting healthier.
No one has the right to judge anyone, especially not from an outside appearance. Lift them up, help them along, be a good example, try to involve them in positive activities, yes. I think it is really ugly to not accept someone based on appearance.3 -
RelCanonical wrote: »
The bad:
There's a splinter group of the body positivity movement (more the fat acceptance movement) that believes overeating is not a vice, that obese is their "natural" state, and in fact that intentional weight loss is fundamentally harmful to the body and akin to starving. They're a small group, but also a loud group, and therefore get a lot of attention. I think these people are delusional. They think that because they're "perfectly healthy" in their 20's while obese, that they'll remain that way and that obesity is not a comorbidity for numerous diseases. They'll do anything in their power to convince people that sustained weight loss is not possible, and have "thin allies" like Linda Bacon try to convince people that you crave foods because you "need" them and moderation is a societal pressure.
They're really kind of separate from actual body positivity, but use the movement for their own gains, pun not intended but I chortled.
My thing is that there are extremists in any movement. They are as you mention, a small part of the overall community that supports a certain idea, and I don't think the movement should be defined by it. Fat acceptance becomes kind of a strawman when people talk about body positivity to distract from the actual issue. I literally had never heard of HAES or fat acceptance until I came to these boards. Out in the "real world" (or the Matrix, depending on your take on things), I had never heard it mentioned. I have seen a lot more about body positivity, but it's been in the vein that we are talking about it here, which is that everyone has a right to feel like a person, regardless of their size. And there is a movement to not shame thin people along with not shaming obese people.
As is illustrated on the thread, there are people who whenever anyone mentions anything about body positivity always respond with "lol u want everyone to be fat". And that's not the crux of the movement. The movement is about empowering everyone, but it's not about approving of obesity. There are some here who seem to think that shaming is actually a positive mental health technique to get people to change. I think they'll have a hard time convincing the AMA of that though.
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So confirmation you didn't read the thread. Great! Thanks for that.dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
So you didn't read the thread?
I've read plenty from the pro-obesity crowd and I'm 100% against it.15 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
So you didn't read the thread?
I've read plenty from the pro-obesity crowd and I'm 100% against it.
If you had read the thread, you'd see that's not what we are talking about. Sigh.7 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.
So you're against the loud minority and the strawmen built around them to judge the entire movement? Well, if you read the thread you'll find out that it's much more nuanced than a simple for or against choice.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.
So you're against the loud minority and the strawmen built around them to judge the entire movement? Well, if you read the thread you'll find out that it's much more nuanced than a simple for or against choice.
Not a strawman. A movement intended for amputees and burn victims has been hijacked by pro-obesity people.
It's not okay to be fat. It is not nuanced.21 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.
So you're against the loud minority and the strawmen built around them to judge the entire movement? Well, if you read the thread you'll find out that it's much more nuanced than a simple for or against choice.
Not a strawman. A movement intended for amputees and burn victims has been hijacked by pro-obesity people.
It's not okay to be fat. It is not nuanced.
Long siiiigggggghhhhhhhh18 -
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.3
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dogWalkerTX wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.
So you're against the loud minority and the strawmen built around them to judge the entire movement? Well, if you read the thread you'll find out that it's much more nuanced than a simple for or against choice.
Not a strawman. A movement intended for amputees and burn victims has been hijacked by pro-obesity people.
It's not okay to be fat. It is not nuanced.
Really? I find a nuance simply because I don't know what you mean by it isn't okay. Do you mean someone being fat is doing an injustice to you? Is it not okay in that sense?3 -
dogWalkerTX wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »dogWalkerTX wrote: »100% against. It's pro-obesity insanity.
Actually, in my experience as a morbidly obese person, it was mostly about giving yourself permission to not feel bad about yourself all the gddam time. And also to be offended at people making rude and personal comments.
And believe me, that freedom was such a relief.
I'm glad your take on it was helpful to you. Everyone should love themselves and take good care of themselves. That's not what the "body positivity" movement is about.
The question was for or against. I'm against.
So you're against the loud minority and the strawmen built around them to judge the entire movement? Well, if you read the thread you'll find out that it's much more nuanced than a simple for or against choice.
Not a strawman. A movement intended for amputees and burn victims has been hijacked by pro-obesity people.
No, it is not pro obesity. If you'd read the thread you'd know that. Lots of people who benefit from the idea are not obese. Others are or were, and found it helpful in losing weight or getting healthier even when they were still struggling with weight loss.It's not okay to be fat. It is not nuanced.
As amusedmonkey said, okay in what sense?0 -
Spadesheart wrote: »What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.13
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