Am I really committing a crime against humanity?
Replies
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With regards to flour,
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308679.php
This piece mentioned increased cancer risks linked to consumption of processed carbs.
I realise that this wasn't the original question, but the topic of processed foods is still an interesting one. And someone said, "I also am curious how avoiding processed food leads to health improvement." so the information seemed appropriate.
Personally, I don't eat flour based foods unless it's a special occasion. I'm not rampantly anti junk, I'm not preaching that you're poisoning your bodies, but I feel it's a reasonable health precaution that people shouldn't be criticised for making.15 -
I doubt that white flour intake has a significant effect on cancer risk - and any article talking about good carbs and bad carbs and reducing carbs being neccesary for weight loss doesn't seem all that credible to me.
But anyway, the point isn't whether OP's choices are valid or not - obviously they are to her.
The point is how to refuse offers of food without it turning into a drama.8 -
My favorite reply is, "No, thank you, I'm good right now," while rubbing my full belly. "Maybe later."2
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I'm kind of an odd man out on this topic. I love telling people "No, I'm good." I actually get a strange inspiration from it!
I had a husband who would try and sabotage my weight loss, along with his family.
I felt powerful telling them in a polite way to take their foods and shove it down their own throats, I was good eating my salad.
Even though my husband is deceased, I still have to visit his family (they're still my daughter's grandparents, aunts and uncles). I still won't touch their food!! I take my own food or shop for my foods when I get to town.
Others are right, after a few times of turning them down and sticking to my salad (without any emotions), even when they were eating deep dish pan pizza in front of me, waving it in my face saying, "one piece won't hurt." They quit pushing their foods as hard as they had been.
After telling husband to stop bringing me home fast food, and making him eat it all himself or literally taking the burgers he brought home for me and throwing them in garbage right in front of him... He finally quit.
Stand your ground and take control!10 -
Not sure what I can add here but I'm studying psych and doing a unit on health behaviour change. I'm currently my own test case for an assignment on this very thing. All psych students need to test themselves in this unit. Its very facinating. My behavioyr change goal is similar to yours which is why I responded to you.
Not going to get into if you need therapy or not.. no one can answer this question but you. All I will say is that it's very helpful for everyone. Also not getting into the abstain vs moderate argument. I learned a lot today by reading everyone's responses on that! I live the different views here.
So the reason why I responded to this post is that you identified barriers to achieving your goal. This is actually really awesome. Believe it or not but apparently this identification of barriers is part of a huge process of change. There is an acronym for this process which is called: B.E.S.T
B= behavioural patterns that stand in the way of achieving your goal. So what do You do that gets in the way? Not other people, just you. What are YOU doing or not doing.
E= Emotional barriers. One of the biggest reasons a healthy eating plan failed is due to emotions getting in the way. Do you eat when you are stressed? Tired, angry? Happy?
S=situational barriers.. this one is perfect for you! You are in this situation where people are offering you food, you don't have a lot of supporting people to cheer you on it sounds. This is really a difficult situation and sounds like a huge barrier. The struggle is real here. People do this to each other. I feel for you. But work out a plan!
T= thought barriers. Do you tell yourself "ok I will eat this to shut them up?" What do you actually say to yourself that makes you cave in. Be honest with yourself.
So once you've got a list on this above barriers (esspecially the situational ones) then you need a plan. With every barrier you can think of you need to come up with solutions. And pick ONE you will try that week. Monitor it. See how that solution went. Did it work. Did it fail. If it failed do you need to pick anotger or tweek it. With those solutions you need to be specific. How will you do this, and ask yourself "is this actually realistic for me".
So really It's pen and paper time. This approach has been really helping me. So much so that I'm impressed with these theories and wonder what otherthings I can do.
The other thing I wanted to point out is that you can do this. You've actually done it before. You have something called "mastery of experience in this which builds upon something called self efficacy. Draw upon it. Use it. Actually tell yourself that because you did it once, it really is possible to do it again. Now, you lack some cheer squad.. you don't have many people in corner it sounds, that kind of sucks. But my guess is that once you stick with this and reach your goals and feel happier and confident it won't matter what others think, it will only matter how you feel. Good luck. I hope it works out!10 -
Just be blunt and to the point, " shove that pie up your rear end and get out of my way". That should help them understand.15
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Just be blunt and to the point, " shove that pie up your rear end and get out of my way". That should help them understand.
Not sure that works too well if you still want to get along with your work colleagues, friends, family.
I'd rather find a way to say No without losing friends or family or getting into trouble at work myself.
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My mother is tiny and has a metabolism disorder, so she's hardly ever weighed more than 100 lbs soaking wet. Even while pregnant she hardly gained weight.
So its hard for her to understand when I refuse sweets, because I didn't inherit her metabolism.
She also sees that I'm healthy now and have some noticeable muscle tone, so she thinks that now that I've reached my goals I can stop going to the gym and can eat junk again.
I just laugh and explain to her that I go to the gym because I like it, not to lose weight. And that I can and do eat junk sometimes, but that I can't allow myself to have it all the time or control goes out the window and I'll end up right back where I started.
She means well. She just doesn't understand because she's never been there. It's a little easier for me, though, I think, because I work in law enforcement. It terrifies her and she wants me to be safe, so all I have to use is, "I have to be conscious of what I put in my body so that I can stay in the best shape possible and increase my odds of staying safe or being able to fight my way out of a situation."
Just keep at it. If its easier to not offer an explanation, don't. My mom doesn't push as much anymore, unless its a special occasion and she thinks I should treat myself. Like I said, she means well. Perhaps these people THINK they have your best interests at heart, even if they don't. Its frustrating, I know. Just keep doing what you're doing. If you do want to offer an explanation, just tell them that you have found other ways to reward yourself than food, and if they want to treat you, they can do so by maybe going with you to get nails done, going hiking, going shopping, whatever it is you enjoy together.5 -
glovepuppet wrote: »With regards to flour,
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308679.php
This piece mentioned increased cancer risks linked to consumption of processed carbs.
I realise that this wasn't the original question, but the topic of processed foods is still an interesting one. And someone said, "I also am curious how avoiding processed food leads to health improvement." so the information seemed appropriate.
Personally, I don't eat flour based foods unless it's a special occasion. I'm not rampantly anti junk, I'm not preaching that you're poisoning your bodies, but I feel it's a reasonable health precaution that people shouldn't be criticised for making.
That doesn't explain anything. For one thing my question was explained as "how can avoiding an entire group of foods with multiple variations of ingredients lead to health improvement?" Avoiding processed foods with flour does not explain this.
Secondly, avoiding a health risk is not the same as health improvement. I can avoid risk by driving with my eyes open but it does not improve my health.
Some people do have to avoid flour and their health does improve as a result. That I can understand.
To be fair I didn't read the article you linked. I think believing this kind of thing is a slippery slope. Anything can be connected to cancer because the number of people who get it is very large and so connecting any common grocery item to it is extremely easy.12 -
glovepuppet wrote: »With regards to flour,
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308679.php
This piece mentioned increased cancer risks linked to consumption of processed carbs.
I realise that this wasn't the original question, but the topic of processed foods is still an interesting one. And someone said, "I also am curious how avoiding processed food leads to health improvement." so the information seemed appropriate.
Personally, I don't eat flour based foods unless it's a special occasion. I'm not rampantly anti junk, I'm not preaching that you're poisoning your bodies, but I feel it's a reasonable health precaution that people shouldn't be criticised for making.
That doesn't explain anything. For one thing my question was explained as "how can avoiding an entire group of foods with multiple variations of ingredients lead to health improvement?" Avoiding processed foods with flour does not explain this.
Secondly, avoiding a health risk is not the same as health improvement. I can avoid risk by driving with my eyes open but it does not improve my health.
Some people do have to avoid flour and their health does improve as a result. That I can understand.
To be fair I didn't read the article you linked. I think believing this kind of thing is a slippery slope. Anything can be connected to cancer because the number of people who get it is very large and so connecting any common grocery item to it is extremely easy.
Everyone who has ever gotten cancer breathes air and drinks water so there you go...9 -
glovepuppet wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
It's a tangent, true.
Articles tend to oversimplify studies, giving the gist rather than the detail. I think that anything containing off the shelf white flour would probably fall foul.
You are saying that you think consuming white bread or pasta would shorten life, no matter what else you eat? Or occasional pie?
The link you gave (https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/eating-more-ultra-processed-foods-may-shorten-life-span) certainly does not support that. If you want to talk about it, please start another thread, as I will not respond further here, it's utterly off topic and not responsive to my comments in this thread (as I've never said OP should consume pie), but I couldn't let that extreme claim just sit there without comment.
Re: the link supposedly about flour -- no, you are taking it out of context. If you read it sensibly it means that overall diet matter and diets that are nutrient dense, full of healthier and less processed sources of fat and protein (and not lots of processed meat), and more fiber, more fruit and veg is better than, basically, the so-called SAD with lots of ultraprocessed food and high cal low nutrient foods with high amounts of added fat and sugar, etc. To take from that that white flour (in the context of, say, a pasta dish with a serving of pasta, lots of veg, some shrimp, some olive oil, and some pinenuts = unhealthy ultraprocessed meal that will give you cancer is kind of wild). One problem a lot of people have is that they focus on specific inputs (X,Y,Z ingredients are inherently bad and must be avoided at all costs) and fail to have a broad understanding of nutrition (which is more about what is in the diet than not).
Re:glovepuppet wrote: »And someone said, "I also am curious how avoiding processed food leads to health improvement." so the information seemed appropriate.
Personally, I don't eat flour based foods unless it's a special occasion. I'm not rampantly anti junk, I'm not preaching that you're poisoning your bodies, but I feel it's a reasonable health precaution that people shouldn't be criticised for making.
Again, no one is criticising OP for making any choices. You are totally taking what has been said out of context. My own view is that she said she can't control herself with certain foods or feels bad when she eats them, so of course she shouldn't eat them (although she may want to also work on the all or nothing thing or it will continue to be a problem).
My only comment about "avoiding processed foods" was that getting into it with others about "you know I don't eat processed foods" or "you know processed foods are unhealthy" is needlessly challenging and confusing. People (probably including OP) use the term processed in many different ways (including very weirdly), which was the point (and it's weird to think that just because they are both processed that plain greek yogurt, canned black beans, some tofu, and a bag of sugar all have the same properties and nutritional profile, which is why I said it was wrong to talk about processed foods as if they were all the same, but that was about something YOU said, not OP. OP can avoid whatever foods she wants, whether I personally think they are healthy or not (and I have not really paid attention to what she avoids other than sweets, which I sometimes avoid too, personally, not that it matters).
Again, if you want to talk about studies you think show flour is evil, new thread! I would like to respond more meaningfully, but won't do it in the wrong thread.
The issue here is how OP can best avoid the problems she is having with people supposedly continuing to offer her food she does not want and her unable to avoid temptation (I think that's what she said).
OP, see, it's way easier if you just say "no thanks" about the food and don't try to explain that processed foods are evil or what not, and will be way less confusing for people. Others offering you food should not be a tempting thing if you are solid in your reasons for what you choose and don't choose to eat. ;-)7 -
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Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I have a legit question for the “abstainers”. And before I pose it I want to preface that I’m a “moderator” and I’m guilty of arguing that this is the best method for everyone, even with @kshama2001 in my early days I think (sorry!).
But for the abstainers, is my presumption correct that the foods that are hard to moderate are a smaller number of specific foods? Not just “junk food”? KShama mentioned Ben and Jerry’s as being problematic. I remember another poster talking about ribs, someone else about cheesecake, someone about peanut butter m&ms.
OP seems to be making these sweeping generalizations about anything that contains salt or sugar (and I think may be in the UK where I think NHS has done some campaigns about the evils of these ingredients and limiting them). This is the part that I feel may be problematic . Even those for whom abstinence is the best strategy usually understand the concept of trigger foods and don’t blame their overindulgence on “addiction”.
This is the part that while harder to admit, may be better for OP on the long run to accept that certain foods are challenging but still completely within her control to say yes or no to.
Thoughts from anyone?
@WinoGelato lots of people here on MFP, including myself, have mentioned just abstaining from a small specific group of foods, while moderating others.
However, those who do Bright Line eating per the book would abstain from all flour and (added) sugar. https://brightlineeating.com/what-is-ble/
I have a friend who turned to food after quitting heroin, and then decided to give up all added sugar.
I don't go to OA (Overeater's Anonymous) but I have heard that there is support there for abstaining from all flour and (added) sugar.
http://www.oprah.com/health/control-food-cravings-how-to-stop-overeating/all
...The OA program doesn't promote any particular diet, but wheat and sugar so pervasively spark compulsive eating that many members make abstinence from them the turning point in overcoming their addiction.8 -
I've seen it happen to others, thankfully, nobody does it to me anymore, not for many years. I guess they know I will just say no thanks, so they don't offer me anything or comment on what I'm having. Having said that, ultimately we are responsible for whatever food we eat. You cannot blame others for forcing you to eat something 'bad' unless they are holding you down and force-feeding you.
Also, I too am an all-or-nothing type of person. I used to cut out all the 'bad food' for many months at a time, lose weight, but then always went back to it all and binged on it, regaining everything back, plus more. Now, I still have it, but in a more controlled way. I only have 1250 calories so usually, it's not a huge amount of junk food, just something sweet in the evening. Much more sustainable way of living than going cold turkey.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Your parents sound similar to my mother - huge portions (my husband was shocked the first time he ate at their house), and socializes mainly through food. It doesn’t make life easy. I’m a type 2 diabetic so I have health reasons for not wanting to eat crap. And before I get a bunch of woos for “demonizing foods” I define crap as food that spikes my blood glucose. It may be fine for someone. It’s not fine for me. You don’t have to bend to the woo-givers. If you don’t want to eat certain foods, it is no one else’s business to force you to eat them, moderately, or otherwise.
Some remarks I have had to deal with: “So-and-so is diabetic and she eats all these things. She just takes more insulin.” (That’s not an option for me. My diabetes is controlled through diet and exercise. I don’t have a prescription for insulin. Also, So-and-So is literally dead now, from complications of diabetes.) “It’s your birthday, you can have high blood sugar for one day, it won’t kill you.” (Probably not - although if it’s high enough it might - but having very high blood sugar doesn’t feel nice. It’s my birthday. I don’t want to spend it feeling ill.)
My solution took a while, but I finally got the hang of it. I grew the heck up and stopped relating to my mom as a child. That means I don’t pretend to be polite and I don’t make excuses and I don’t let myself be bullied. No, “thanks for the cake, it looks delicious,” I just put it right into the trash. No going out to restaurants without diabetic friendly options, instead I say “If you’re going there I can’t come, would you rather go here or shall we do something another time?” I no longer eat at her house except on major holidays when I bring enough of my own food to get by. When the discussion turns to critiquing my eating habits and comments such as “You can’t keep this up,” or, “It sounds sad to live like that,” I say, “This is a decision I am making, I prefer my food and enjoy it, and being healthy means I am much happier today than when I was morbidly obese.” Then change the subject.
In order to maintain a relationship with my mother, I have made an effort to do new things with her that don’t involve food, such as seeing movies. We took a road trip to see the house where she grew up. We talk a lot on the phone instead of sitting at restaurants. I went with her to a dance contest and a horse show. It took a while, but I believe our relationship is actually bettter than it was when all we did was eat. And lately instead of insulting me she has been bragging about me and complimenting me.
Stand your ground. It will (probably) get better. But even if it doesn’t if you don’t eat the food they are trying to force on you, you will be happier and healthier.
Throwing out food on purpose when there are starving people out there? Disgusting. Couldn't you just have said no, I won't eating it and I'm not taking it? People are pathetic. I think people are just far too easily offended nowadays.20 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".
If you go back, that was kind of my point. As I understood it, OP was mad that someone thought a homemade pie was not processed and offered it to her when she had told them she doesn't eat processed foods. I pointed out that people use processed in different ways, so you have to realize they might not know you consider a homemade pie processed (even though I think it obviously is). Then some other poster (not OP) commented that it was reasonable to consider a pie processed, and I said I totally agree, it obviously is, but people use the term in different ways so expecting others to know what you mean by the term is hopeless. Then the other poster--who had expressed a definition of processed that is identical to my own (and different from ultraprocessed) posted a link re specific types of ultraprocessed foods to support a claim that all processed foods are supposedly bad and unhealthy. That's when I pointed out that the link was not referring to all processed foods as the poster had defined them. So please don't suggest that I was misunderstanding the poster's usage.
I should stop responding to this tangent, but you seemed to be misunderstanding the context and assuming the other poster did not share my definition of processed. IMO, the post about the evils of processed foods was off-topic and I was trying to bring it back to the focus on it being an issue of communication.
To add to that, focusing on processed or ultraprocessed or whatnot as categories is kind of hopeless since no one agrees on what they mean and they are so varied. Easier to just to tell people what you eat and don't using other terms or, as I said before, just say "no thanks" and don't assume anyone else will remember anything.
And again, you may think it's obvious that people mean ultraprocessed when they say processed, but that clearly was not the case with the poster I was responding to, and personally I was on a "nothing processed" kick myself for a period of time before I was on MFP, and I absolutely meant processed (however impossible that is) vs. ultraprocessed and avoided things like canned beans and canned tomatoes, among other things, and basically made my life difficult. That's why I think it is important to try to understand what people mean by the term and not to assume they mean whatever you think is colloquially meant. Even with "ultraprocessed" people have quite different understandings of what that means.
But we should probably be careful not to take this off-topic, as what processed/ultraprocessed is doesn't matter. OP can not eat whatever she prefers to not eat, that's the main point.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Your parents sound similar to my mother - huge portions (my husband was shocked the first time he ate at their house), and socializes mainly through food. It doesn’t make life easy. I’m a type 2 diabetic so I have health reasons for not wanting to eat crap. And before I get a bunch of woos for “demonizing foods” I define crap as food that spikes my blood glucose. It may be fine for someone. It’s not fine for me. You don’t have to bend to the woo-givers. If you don’t want to eat certain foods, it is no one else’s business to force you to eat them, moderately, or otherwise.
Some remarks I have had to deal with: “So-and-so is diabetic and she eats all these things. She just takes more insulin.” (That’s not an option for me. My diabetes is controlled through diet and exercise. I don’t have a prescription for insulin. Also, So-and-So is literally dead now, from complications of diabetes.) “It’s your birthday, you can have high blood sugar for one day, it won’t kill you.” (Probably not - although if it’s high enough it might - but having very high blood sugar doesn’t feel nice. It’s my birthday. I don’t want to spend it feeling ill.)
My solution took a while, but I finally got the hang of it. I grew the heck up and stopped relating to my mom as a child. That means I don’t pretend to be polite and I don’t make excuses and I don’t let myself be bullied. No, “thanks for the cake, it looks delicious,” I just put it right into the trash. No going out to restaurants without diabetic friendly options, instead I say “If you’re going there I can’t come, would you rather go here or shall we do something another time?” I no longer eat at her house except on major holidays when I bring enough of my own food to get by. When the discussion turns to critiquing my eating habits and comments such as “You can’t keep this up,” or, “It sounds sad to live like that,” I say, “This is a decision I am making, I prefer my food and enjoy it, and being healthy means I am much happier today than when I was morbidly obese.” Then change the subject.
In order to maintain a relationship with my mother, I have made an effort to do new things with her that don’t involve food, such as seeing movies. We took a road trip to see the house where she grew up. We talk a lot on the phone instead of sitting at restaurants. I went with her to a dance contest and a horse show. It took a while, but I believe our relationship is actually bettter than it was when all we did was eat. And lately instead of insulting me she has been bragging about me and complimenting me.
Stand your ground. It will (probably) get better. But even if it doesn’t if you don’t eat the food they are trying to force on you, you will be happier and healthier.
Throwing out food on purpose when there are starving people out there? Disgusting. Couldn't you just have said no, I won't eating it and I'm not taking it? People are pathetic. I think people are just far too easily offended nowadays.
Sounds to me like he started off being polite but it wasn't until he started employing strategies like putting the unwanted food in the trash that his mother got the message.
Look, I agree that food waste is a huge problem in this country, but so is obesity. I see nothing wrong with his short-term solution.
Personally, I compost and do other things to avoid food waste, but I respect people here with the attitude "I throw it in the trash; my body is not a garbage disposal."8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Your parents sound similar to my mother - huge portions (my husband was shocked the first time he ate at their house), and socializes mainly through food. It doesn’t make life easy. I’m a type 2 diabetic so I have health reasons for not wanting to eat crap. And before I get a bunch of woos for “demonizing foods” I define crap as food that spikes my blood glucose. It may be fine for someone. It’s not fine for me. You don’t have to bend to the woo-givers. If you don’t want to eat certain foods, it is no one else’s business to force you to eat them, moderately, or otherwise.
Some remarks I have had to deal with: “So-and-so is diabetic and she eats all these things. She just takes more insulin.” (That’s not an option for me. My diabetes is controlled through diet and exercise. I don’t have a prescription for insulin. Also, So-and-So is literally dead now, from complications of diabetes.) “It’s your birthday, you can have high blood sugar for one day, it won’t kill you.” (Probably not - although if it’s high enough it might - but having very high blood sugar doesn’t feel nice. It’s my birthday. I don’t want to spend it feeling ill.)
My solution took a while, but I finally got the hang of it. I grew the heck up and stopped relating to my mom as a child. That means I don’t pretend to be polite and I don’t make excuses and I don’t let myself be bullied. No, “thanks for the cake, it looks delicious,” I just put it right into the trash. No going out to restaurants without diabetic friendly options, instead I say “If you’re going there I can’t come, would you rather go here or shall we do something another time?” I no longer eat at her house except on major holidays when I bring enough of my own food to get by. When the discussion turns to critiquing my eating habits and comments such as “You can’t keep this up,” or, “It sounds sad to live like that,” I say, “This is a decision I am making, I prefer my food and enjoy it, and being healthy means I am much happier today than when I was morbidly obese.” Then change the subject.
In order to maintain a relationship with my mother, I have made an effort to do new things with her that don’t involve food, such as seeing movies. We took a road trip to see the house where she grew up. We talk a lot on the phone instead of sitting at restaurants. I went with her to a dance contest and a horse show. It took a while, but I believe our relationship is actually bettter than it was when all we did was eat. And lately instead of insulting me she has been bragging about me and complimenting me.
Stand your ground. It will (probably) get better. But even if it doesn’t if you don’t eat the food they are trying to force on you, you will be happier and healthier.
Throwing out food on purpose when there are starving people out there? Disgusting. Couldn't you just have said no, I won't eating it and I'm not taking it? People are pathetic. I think people are just far too easily offended nowadays.
Sounds to me like he started off being polite but it wasn't until he started employing strategies like putting the unwanted food in the trash that his mother got the message.
Look, I agree that food waste is a huge problem in this country, but so is obesity. I see nothing wrong with his short-term solution.
Personally, I compost and do other things to avoid food waste, but I respect people here with the attitude "I throw it in the trash; my body is not a garbage disposal."
...and like often happens in these forums, this thread has gone off the rails.
I tend to agree that some people will not stop and that the easier softer way may be to take some of the food, and throw it out later. I haven't tried that, but I haven't had to. "No thanks," means no way in my world.
In First World countries, if someone is going hungry my piece of cake in the garbage isn't going to make a difference to that person. I give money to Food Banks, my conscience would be clear. Cake isn't really nutritious food anyway. Nice try sam33a, not buying into your rant.14 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Processed and ultra processed are not the same. Frozen spinach is processed. Whole grain bread is processed, rolled oats are processed, canned tomatoes are processed, cottage cheese is processed, smoked salmon is processed, boneless, skinless chicken breast is processed.
Ironically, the link defines ultraprocessed as microwavable and ready to eat, so would not include the oh so evil homemade pie.
But again not the topic of this thread.
While you are correct that processed and ultra processed are not the same, everyone I know IRL, along with most new posters on MFP, say "processed" when they mean "ultra processed".
If you go back, that was kind of my point. As I understood it, OP was mad that someone thought a homemade pie was not processed and offered it to her when she had told them she doesn't eat processed foods. I pointed out that people use processed in different ways, so you have to realize they might not know you consider a homemade pie processed (even though I think it obviously is). Then some other poster (not OP) commented that it was reasonable to consider a pie processed, and I said I totally agree, it obviously is, but people use the term in different ways so expecting others to know what you mean by the term is hopeless. Then the other poster--who had expressed a definition of processed that is identical to my own (and different from ultraprocessed) posted a link re specific types of ultraprocessed foods to support a claim that all processed foods are supposedly bad and unhealthy. That's when I pointed out that the link was not referring to all processed foods as the poster had defined them. So please don't suggest that I was misunderstanding the poster's usage.
I should stop responding to this tangent, but you seemed to be misunderstanding the context and assuming the other poster did not share my definition of processed. IMO, the post about the evils of processed foods was off-topic and I was trying to bring it back to the focus on it being an issue of communication.
To add to that, focusing on processed or ultraprocessed or whatnot as categories is kind of hopeless since no one agrees on what they mean and they are so varied. Easier to just to tell people what you eat and don't using other terms or, as I said before, just say "no thanks" and don't assume anyone else will remember anything.
And again, you may think it's obvious that people mean ultraprocessed when they say processed, but that clearly was not the case with the poster I was responding to, and personally I was on a "nothing processed" kick myself for a period of time before I was on MFP, and I absolutely meant processed (however impossible that is) vs. ultraprocessed and avoided things like canned beans and canned tomatoes, among other things, and basically made my life difficult. That's why I think it is important to try to understand what people mean by the term and not to assume they mean whatever you think is colloquially meant. Even with "ultraprocessed" people have quite different understandings of what that means.
But we should probably be careful not to take this off-topic, as what processed/ultraprocessed is doesn't matter. OP can not eat whatever she prefers to not eat, that's the main point.
The OP clarified on page 3 "The pie I was referring to was shop bought, it was not homemade"
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