I occasionally fall down the internet rabbit hole on this stuff. There are so many concerns that our current society is glamorourizing and normalizing obesity. But there are also Fat Studies departments highlighting fat people as a marginalized community. I understand there are studies that show negative feedback and taunts or self loathing decrease the chances people succeed in change. Self love and respect usually helps. (No source, so if you have alternative perspectives I’m interested.)
What are your thoughts on this debate?
I find myself very torn because I agree with some of both. I don’t think people who are classified obese should be hidden from the medical realities. Obese isn’t a dirty word. It’s accurate. (Am still in that category myself). But I also think subways and airplanes should have accessibile seating and not shame obese passengers.
kiela64
Member Posts: 1,448 Member
Member Posts: 1,448 Member
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As far as normalizing? Well being obese or overweight is what is normal, in the sense that the majority of people fall into one of those two categories. So in some ways, that makes sense that there would be a sense of normalcy to it. And it makes sense that businesses would want to make an effort to make these people feel accommodated, and not ostracized. But it's hard for me to believe we've truly normalized obesity when society and media is still so heavily pushing "be skinny" on us.
There seems to be a segment of society (and it always shows up in these coversations on these boards) that believes that if we make fat people feel as miserable about themselves as possible, they'll finally lose the weight. But these people tend to be suspiciously lacking mental health qualifications. As you mentioned, all the research shows that ostracizing people makes them less likely to lose weight, not more likely. So there's nothing for anyone to gain by creating a society that doesn't provide comfortable living to obese people.
There are two sides - Fantasy vs. Reality. False vs. Truth. I choose truth.
Reconfiguring public areas to accommodate people who have eaten themselves out of regular-sized furniture is not helping them, it is removing a consequence of their unhealthy condition and taking away another incentive to address their condition, which enables them to continue down the road to an early death.
IMO you have to separate the imperative to treat humans with respect and empathy from the food- and lifestyle- issues that are overarching a rising obesity rate. If more and more people are getting obese, how does it make sense to blame each of those individuals for their personal circumstances and choices? It does not.
I agree mainly with this.
And on a personal note: when I finally made the changes in my life to eat better and get fit (and was no longer obese as a result) - it was because I LOVED myself exactly as I was and wanted to give myself the best first and foremost. No amount of fat shaming could have gotten me there.
A society without grace and compassion is not one to emulate. "Too bad, fatty" is not a motivational strategy to help people lose weight. "It's for their own good" is one of the main ways people try to justify bullying to themselves.
I hate this argument. If there's one thing anyone on MFP knows, its that weight loss is painfully, agonizingly slow. And the 45 pounds I've dropped over these 5 long months have not changed my physical size/appearance hardly at all. I'm still wearing the same size pants.
So because I made some bad choices, received some bad advice, and/or suffered medical issues that caused massive weight gain before they were under control, I should be expunged from society for the 2 years its gonna take to drop it again? Do you want me to wear burlap sacks while I hide in my basement on the floor, unable to live my life or even sit in a chair?
Screw that. You don't care about me, you don't KNOW me. If I were to die tomorrow at age 31 you wouldn't care because we are strangers. So don't pretend like you care about my early death or that your "logic" comes from anywhere except a place of fat phobia and bullying.
Physically reconfiguring the world to enable obese people to continue growing beyond the normal infrastructure is not graceful or compassionate, it is enabling sickness, misery, and death. Shoving a bigger chair beneath someone who outgrows their chair and walking away like you helped them is empty do-goodery that leaves the person who needs real help in a worse situation, freeing them to move along and outgrow the bigger chair - what then, an even bigger chair? This is much worse than bullying because it adds to the disability but gives the illusion of kindness.
No... it's not.
Right, I don't know you, just as I don't know most of the other 7 billion+ people on Earth 🤷♂️. I'm not sure how that fact advances any sort of logical discussion on the matter.
Well, considering you ignored every single one of my other points to also ignore the point that its illogical to pretend you care about the health of strangers, I'm assuming you aren't interested in advancing any conversation at all.
Typical bullying tactic, tbh.
She’s not healthy and she can’t run a marathon, and she’s telling lies about that, and that’s not cool to me.
Because I have diabetes due to my past obesity, I’m aware that pretending obesity is just lovely and won’t hurt you isn’t a good idea. Obesity kills. Obese people - I was one - should absolutely be able to buy clothes, and sit in chairs, and go out in public without being mocked, but they should also be told the truth about the consequences of obesity.
The exception is Hollywood/media where I feel there is still this push to be overly skinny and a normal weight person is seen as fat.
There are always outliers in every group. Just because one fat chick is making a mockery of fat acceptance doesn't mean it's not still an important movement. No more than one jerk being gay means we should stop fighting for gay rights.
Obesity kills, but truly, very few fat people are not aware of that. Treating people like idiots is not a great start to the conversation.
John Candy was not a movie star because he was obese. He was movie star because he was a damned good comic. He died young because he was obese.
If the Academy, not of motion pictures but of ivory towers, can understand the difference between talent and sickness, call me surprised.
Logic also dictates that human failings and unpredictability must also be discussed. The depth of nuance that would (should?) bring to this discussion would flow far beyond the topic. But for now:
It's far simpler and more effective to simply give people room for choice and dignity in their lives. Even though many may make poor choices at times, or display an astounding lack of dignity.
edit: I believe we're all capable of that from time to time.
Please don’t put words into my mouth. I said nothing at all about the majority of the movement, simply about where I find the dividing line to be. And I didn’t call anyone an idiot, that’s your word.
My example is a real person who you can easily find by googling any of the terms I’ve mentioned, and presumably she expects people to believe her when she says that she is healthy. She has a huge following. Are all her followers idiots?
I think this is a great example. I am all for creating an accessible option for obese people. A plane chair, etc. Peoples lives don’t stop because they’re obese. And as was well pointed out above, people don’t stop being obese immediately after doing all the right things.
But trying to pretend being obese isn’t a health issue, isn’t legitimately a problem, is a problem to me. Having been obese for a while, yeah I’m impressed by someone who can walk the length of a marathon— but I’m not impressed by the lies about what’s possible at an obese weight.
I find many people don’t have that line, and it’s either someone is totally into fat acceptance to the point of denying reality. Or acknowledging the problems but also going into shaming/bullying behaviour. It’s hard to clarify the stance of “treat people with dignity but don’t sugar coat reality”.
Considering no autopsy was performed after John Candy’s death and the fact that he was a heavy smoker and drinker, not to mention the fact that he had a history of cocaine usage, I’m not sure you have any authority attributing his death solely to obesity.