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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

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  • PhirrgusPhirrgus Member Posts: 1,904 Member Member Posts: 1,904 Member
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    dodea48 wrote: »
    I hope people realize that "fat and fit" is a delusion like "functional alcoholic"

    Brian Shaw's BMI was 45.4 when his weight was at 412lbs. He isn't representative of that weight range among the general populace, but he and his competitors also clearly show that "fit" is something that can certainly be achieved in the absence of underlying medical issues.
    8hDzEPc.jpg

    Strong does not equal fit. I would disagree with the idea that Brian Shaw was fit in this photo. Strong, sure, but fitness is not represented by the amount of muscle a person has.

    I'm not certain of the timeline between this photo and his challenge vs the ex Navy SEAL, but the ex SEAL was as fit as you would expect and Shaw won the challenge.

    To be perfectly honest I'm not certain exactly what would constitute "fit" as it seems to be a moving target among various disciplines - remember the NFL Linemen conversations? I don't have a problem considering him fit, but I do acknowledge as stated that he's more of a one off.
  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Member Posts: 6,261 Member Member Posts: 6,261 Member
    Is the empathy heirarchy based upon the empathy you feel for those judged without empathy?

    We need a Roberts Rules of Order on da feelz.
  • Aaron_K123Aaron_K123 Member Posts: 7,109 Member Member Posts: 7,109 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Is the empathy heirarchy based upon the empathy you feel for those judged without empathy?

    We need a Roberts Rules of Order on da feelz.

    Oh good I'm glad you showed up CSARdiver...was beginning to think I was the only ***hole here. :-)
    edited September 2019
  • aokoyeaokoye Member Posts: 3,497 Member Member Posts: 3,497 Member
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Marginalizing the obese doesn't help them become less obese.

    Out of curiosity why would you think that it wouldn't decrease obesity rates to marginalize obesity? It certainly decreased the number of people who smoke when society marginalize smoking and made it inconvenient to be a smoker and if you are a smoker quitting isn't an easy fix and often takes years.

    Just to be clear by "societal pressure" and "margalization" I don't mean being verbally abusive to overweight people, same as I don't mean that you should be verbally abusive to someone who smokes. That said I think having a bit of a mantra in society of how smoking or obesity are things to avoid and shun is a positive force overall, even if some people feel disadvantaged because of it.

    There is also a big difference about having empathy for an individual and having just global societal acceptance of what could be argued is a negative trait. I think society should put pressure against obesity...doesn't mean I can't have empathy or understanding for an individual who is overweight. Not wanting society to accept obesity is not the same thing as promoting fat shaming.

    How are you defining "marginalization" in this context? I suspect your definition isn't similar to the way the world marginalization is commonly used in areas like sociology, public health, and the social sciences more broadly. That is to say, the way you're using the word is likely different to the way that people who are doing research in fat studies are using the same word.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,345 Member Member Posts: 1,345 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.

    ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.

    Out of curiousity I googled her stats, and if the internet is to be believed, she is 5'9", 187.5 pounds, which puts her at a BMI of 27.7. Which is overweight, but not even close to obese. That shows how far off we are from a society that glorifies obesity when she is what is considered "plus size".

    If the Internet is to be believed LOL. If you Google her, it seems her weight changes as much as most people change their underwear. Apparently something magic happened in late 2018. Articles say she was over 200 pounds (which at 203 lbs would make here technically obese). but lost wight to a healthier level.
  • mbaker566mbaker566 Member Posts: 11,109 Member Member Posts: 11,109 Member
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Marginalizing the obese doesn't help them become less obese.

    Out of curiosity why would you think that it wouldn't decrease obesity rates to marginalize obesity? It certainly decreased the number of people who smoke when society marginalize smoking and made it inconvenient to be a smoker and if you are a smoker quitting isn't an easy fix and often takes years.

    Just to be clear by "societal pressure" and "margalization" I don't mean being verbally abusive to overweight people, same as I don't mean that you should be verbally abusive to someone who smokes. That said I think having a bit of a mantra in society of how smoking or obesity are things to avoid and shun is a positive force overall, even if some people feel disadvantaged because of it.

    There is also a big difference about having empathy for an individual and having just global societal acceptance of what could be argued is a negative trait. I think society should put pressure against obesity...doesn't mean I can't have empathy or understanding for an individual who is overweight. Not wanting society to accept obesity is not the same thing as promoting fat shaming.

    How are you defining "marginalization" in this context? I suspect your definition isn't similar to the way the world marginalization is commonly used in areas like sociology, public health, and the social sciences more broadly. That is to say, the way you're using the word is likely different to the way that people who are doing research in fat studies are using the same word.

    That is why I put it into quotes. Problem with these sorts of online debates is people read into what you are saying based on the words they choose for you. I started using marginalization only because other people said what I was talking about was marginalization.

    All I mean is that society should actively discourage obesity in the same way we started actively discouraging smoking. Being obese should have some consequences within society. We shouldn't go out of our way to accommodate obesity. Trying to push for larger seats to accommodate people who are morbidly obese or acting like being obese is perfectly fine would be like having smoking sections in restaurants or programs on TV glorifying smoking. Wanting everyone to feel good about themselves is admirable of course but I think it can cause real damage to just act like obesity isn't a health issue. And yes, I do get that there is second-hand smoke but there isn't second-hand fat so the two aren't directly comparible, I still feel like the analogy does convey more the types of "marganilization" I am talking about. A society that has made it clear that that trait is something to be addressed and fixed by the individual rather than accepted.

    What I do not mean is that I think its a good idea to mock individuals for their appearance.

    Smoking is something you do. You can tell people you can't smoke in certain locations. You have to go outside, at least 50 feet from the door, etc.

    Being obese is something you are. Are we going to tell people they can't be obese in certain locations. Go outside, at least 50 feet from the door, until you aren't obese anymore?

    tbh, being obese is often something you do as well. not always but often
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