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Body Positive Movement - For or against?
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I usually skip over long posts because attention span but I can read magnesthenerds posts all day boi. 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
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People often confuse body positivity and fat acceptance. They're not the same. Being positive about your body when you are healthy and taking care of yourself is one thing. Refusing to admit you have bad habits and deciding to stay the way you are instead of fixing them is something else entirely. Although people love to use 'health issues' as an excuse, the reality is that a vast majority of obese people are NOT obese due to medical issues and ones that are are the exception, not the rule. I used be over 300lbs, I'm not blind to what it is to be obese and how hard the journey is.5
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The problem with this whole debate for me is, why should body positivity only be allowed for people who are in shape? Will you deny people who are not up to your fitness standards to feel good about their bodies? When you feel good about your body you tend to take better care of yourself, you build self esteem that can help you better your fitness level.3
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gatamadriz wrote: »The problem with this whole debate for me is, why should body positivity only be allowed for people who are in shape? Will you deny people who are not up to your fitness standards to feel good about their bodies? When you feel good about your body you tend to take better care of yourself, you build self esteem that can help you better your fitness level.
Was anyone saying that body positivity is/should only be allowed for people who are in shape? Most of what I've read here, outside of the subtopic about privilege, is a few people saying that body positivity isn't just about weight a handful of other people stating that fat people should be able to not hate their bodies (which is different to me than making the decision to lose weight - and also assumes that the only reason why fat people would hate their bodies is due to their size), and a bunch of people saying that body positivity is bad because people shouldn't be fat/being fat is unhealthy/we should be accommodating fat people/[enter in X negative thing about being overweight here]. There's also a small group who have mentioned that people can be severely underweight for various reasons as well.0 -
Cahgetsfit wrote: »...overall people DO need to look at their HEALTH and WELLBEING. Not just being comfortable in a skimpy swimsuit. Coz if you go and have a heart attack tomorrow you won't have a chance to rock your bikini the day after.
Love it!
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gatamadriz wrote: »The problem with this whole debate for me is, why should body positivity only be allowed for people who are in shape? Will you deny people who are not up to your fitness standards to feel good about their bodies? When you feel good about your body you tend to take better care of yourself, you build self esteem that can help you better your fitness level.
Was anyone saying that body positivity is/should only be allowed for people who are in shape? Most of what I've read here, outside of the subtopic about privilege, is a few people saying that body positivity isn't just about weight a handful of other people stating that fat people should be able to not hate their bodies (which is different to me than making the decision to lose weight - and also assumes that the only reason why fat people would hate their bodies is due to their size), and a bunch of people saying that body positivity is bad because people shouldn't be fat/being fat is unhealthy/we should be accommodating fat people/[enter in X negative thing about being overweight here]. There's also a small group who have mentioned that people can be severely underweight for various reasons as well.
I thought it was possibly a response to the post immediately above it? But who knows, this whole discussion is frustrating.4 -
gatamadriz wrote: »The problem with this whole debate for me is, why should body positivity only be allowed for people who are in shape? Will you deny people who are not up to your fitness standards to feel good about their bodies? When you feel good about your body you tend to take better care of yourself, you build self esteem that can help you better your fitness level.
Was anyone saying that body positivity is/should only be allowed for people who are in shape? Most of what I've read here, outside of the subtopic about privilege, is a few people saying that body positivity isn't just about weight a handful of other people stating that fat people should be able to not hate their bodies (which is different to me than making the decision to lose weight - and also assumes that the only reason why fat people would hate their bodies is due to their size), and a bunch of people saying that body positivity is bad because people shouldn't be fat/being fat is unhealthy/we should be accommodating fat people/[enter in X negative thing about being overweight here]. There's also a small group who have mentioned that people can be severely underweight for various reasons as well.
I thought it was possibly a response to the post immediately above it? But who knows, this whole discussion is frustrating.
Ah yeah maybe. I'm posting with an "I have a cold brain" so I may have missed that. Either way, I agree - this whole discussion is very frustrating. Also very telling.1 -
For1
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gatamadriz wrote: »The problem with this whole debate for me is, why should body positivity only be allowed for people who are in shape? Will you deny people who are not up to your fitness standards to feel good about their bodies? When you feel good about your body you tend to take better care of yourself, you build self esteem that can help you better your fitness level.
I think that is the exact opposite of what people see as the body positivity movement0 -
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I’m not trying to be a smart aleck, I am legitimately wondering; what are people supposed to do about the fact that they have privilege?
So, yes I have privilege based on certain factors. But besides acknowledgement, what am I supposed to do with that information? What is it’s actual application?
To answer the original question, I am not a fan of the body positivity movement. Body positivity itself as a concept is excellent. Everyone should feel happy and comfortable in their own skin. However, I have witnessed more thin shaming from self described “body positive” individuals than I have from the general population.
It is a great concept, but to suggest that it has not been commandeered as a form of fat acceptance would be mistaken. Originally, and even still in some arenas, it functions as it was originally intended but it is extending its reach much too far.
Also, everything I have seen on “thin privilege” has come from body positivity activists and I’m just not about that either.6 -
Body positivity is great, but not to the extremes where obese women says to little girls that it’s ok to be big and beautiful. I’m not judgemental, but it’s not right to shove candies and sit down on video games, or whatever all day long. It’s not promoting positive, it’s promoting laziness, and unethical eating (such as over eating)3
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What is unethical eating?0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »What is unethical eating?
When you log that you ate Oreos, but you really had Hydrox.13 -
OpulentBobble wrote: »I’m not trying to be a smart aleck, I am legitimately wondering; what are people supposed to do about the fact that they have privilege?
So, yes I have privilege based on certain factors. But besides acknowledgement, what am I supposed to do with that information? What is it’s actual application?
I've also wondered about this. For me, the application of understanding privilege is mostly about my attitude or feelings about myself and others.
1. Humility - I'm not superior to those who perform worse than me
2. Gratitude - I have opportunities that have helped me in some way
3. Compassion - I refrain from unjustified criticism of others6 -
Body positive is vastly different than being health positive. I think everyone should be happy or comfortable in their own skin. It is not for us to judge how they live or look. Besides, we never know the whole story so what right do we have to judge? If asked for advice on how to improve or form healthier habits, that's helping. But we should all be or at least try to be positive for each other.2
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I'm in favour of it. Everyone's entitled to feel ok about themselves - to be able to buy clothes that fit if possible, to not be made feel ashamed of how they look. The choice to lose weight/get healthier is a decision only each individual has. I think even the healthiest person has shortcomings/bad habits that other people might not share/endorse - live and let live. I think it's pretty disgusting that people think they have the right to judge someone else for being fat and to tell them that they should lose weight. My decision to lose weight was my own - anyone trying to tell me what to do, would have been hurtful and probably quite counter productive. I don't believe that fatness is being 'glorified'. People make up their own minds about what they think looks beautiful and these days, what is beautiful is wonderfully vast and varied. People also have the information at their fingertips to also know what is healthy and that's a personal choice. I think it would be different if someone tried to force someone else to be overweight.2
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koalathebear wrote: »I'm in favour of it. Everyone's entitled to feel ok about themselves - to be able to buy clothes that fit if possible, to not be made feel ashamed of how they look. The choice to lose weight/get healthier is a decision only each individual has. I think even the healthiest person has shortcomings/bad habits that other people might not share/endorse - live and let live. I think it's pretty disgusting that people think they have the right to judge someone else for being fat and to tell them that they should lose weight. My decision to lose weight was my own - anyone trying to tell me what to do, would have been hurtful and probably quite counter productive. I don't believe that fatness is being 'glorified'. People make up their own minds about what they think looks beautiful and these days, what is beautiful is wonderfully vast and varied. People also have the information at their fingertips to also know what is healthy and that's a personal choice. I think it would be different if someone tried to force someone else to be overweight.
But a lot of body positive activists claim that you can be healthy at any size and that being overweight/obese doesn’t actually cause negative health outcomes...
That’s one of the main problems I have with it.5 -
Yes and there are feminists who believe that all heterosexual sex is rape. Their existence doesn't invalidate the feminist movement.11
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estherdragonbat wrote: »Yes and there are feminists who believe that all heterosexual sex is rape. Their existence doesn't invalidate the feminist movement.
It's a shame the more extreme fringes of these movements tend to make the most noise and get the most attention.2 -
OpulentBobble wrote: »koalathebear wrote: »I'm in favour of it. Everyone's entitled to feel ok about themselves - to be able to buy clothes that fit if possible, to not be made feel ashamed of how they look. The choice to lose weight/get healthier is a decision only each individual has. I think even the healthiest person has shortcomings/bad habits that other people might not share/endorse - live and let live. I think it's pretty disgusting that people think they have the right to judge someone else for being fat and to tell them that they should lose weight. My decision to lose weight was my own - anyone trying to tell me what to do, would have been hurtful and probably quite counter productive. I don't believe that fatness is being 'glorified'. People make up their own minds about what they think looks beautiful and these days, what is beautiful is wonderfully vast and varied. People also have the information at their fingertips to also know what is healthy and that's a personal choice. I think it would be different if someone tried to force someone else to be overweight.
But a lot of body positive activists claim that you can be healthy at any size and that being overweight/obese doesn’t actually cause negative health outcomes...
That’s one of the main problems I have with it.
That's a different position and that's like dismissing all of Christianity as a religion just because some streams of Christianity are crazy, crackpot extremists. And I say that as an atheist.
It's like dismissing all vegetarians as annoying and extreme just because there are some extremist, radical annoying ones - and I say that as a meat-eater.
People focus on narrow, non-representative, extreme groups as an excuse to dismiss an entire movement/position when they don't want to accept that the fundamental premise might have any validity.
I don't think it's acceptable to fat shame people. I stand by my position that people should not be made to feel bad about themselves and their bodies - live and let live. if they start going out and advocating that others should mimic them or if they start to spout falseheads and damaging statements - then I start to have a problem because that's no longer living and letting live ...6 -
What does this movement mean to you? Do you agree or disagree with it?MADDIESMOMMY6611 wrote: »How do you feel about the body positive movement? I haven't given it much thought but recently stumbled onto a few forums on a bodybuilding website where the overall theme was extremely against this movement. One commenter went as far as to say people for the movement are looking to destroy our country (USA) by promoting unhealthy eating habits and laziness.
What does this movement mean to you? Do you agree or disagree with it?
When I think about the movement, it just brings to mind people like Tess Holiday and more about what people are calling "Fat Acceptance" I guess. There are parts I agree with for sure..
I am not sure how I feel about the movement. I understand the sentiment behind it. I grew up in a family of big people in the south that had no issues with their bodies. There was no shame or anything like that from what I could remember. I am assuming the movement came out of "fat-shaming" which seems to happen on social media a lot these days. Shame is awful and it is not a great motivator because it often leads to depression and back to things that cause the shame. I think any movement has potential to be taken too far. Will we start seeing people who promote healthy lifestyles, eating, dieting, and exercise get demonised and called fat-shamers? Or anti-body positive? I hope it does not go that far.
Good question..1 -
koalathebear wrote: »OpulentBobble wrote: »koalathebear wrote: »I'm in favour of it. Everyone's entitled to feel ok about themselves - to be able to buy clothes that fit if possible, to not be made feel ashamed of how they look. The choice to lose weight/get healthier is a decision only each individual has. I think even the healthiest person has shortcomings/bad habits that other people might not share/endorse - live and let live. I think it's pretty disgusting that people think they have the right to judge someone else for being fat and to tell them that they should lose weight. My decision to lose weight was my own - anyone trying to tell me what to do, would have been hurtful and probably quite counter productive. I don't believe that fatness is being 'glorified'. People make up their own minds about what they think looks beautiful and these days, what is beautiful is wonderfully vast and varied. People also have the information at their fingertips to also know what is healthy and that's a personal choice. I think it would be different if someone tried to force someone else to be overweight.
But a lot of body positive activists claim that you can be healthy at any size and that being overweight/obese doesn’t actually cause negative health outcomes...
That’s one of the main problems I have with it.
That's a different position and that's like dismissing all of Christianity as a religion just because some streams of Christianity are crazy, crackpot extremists. And I say that as an atheist.
It's like dismissing all vegetarians as annoying and extreme just because there are some extremist, radical annoying ones - and I say that as a meat-eater.
People focus on narrow, non-representative, extreme groups as an excuse to dismiss an entire movement/position when they don't want to accept that the fundamental premise might have any validity.
I don't think it's acceptable to fat shame people. I stand by my position that people should not be made to feel bad about themselves and their bodies - live and let live. if they start going out and advocating that others should mimic them or if they start to spout falseheads and damaging statements - then I start to have a problem because that's no longer living and letting live ...
This is a very good point as well... I am a Christian and I have heard countless times about how people hate Christianity or Christians for some reason or another that has nothing to do with Jesus and if he rose from death..
So people will reject a movement based on the fringes or how much baggage has become attached to it or how far it has moved from it's fundamental purpose. Same reason some women reject modern feminism because it has moved beyond equal rights in their eyes.2 -
In the conversations I've been a part of with my family and friends I think body positivity talk favors fat acceptance. I don't think all my friends and family and extremists but some have been influenced by that thinking perhaps?
Some examples: I had some friends talking about body positivity and I was agreeing with everything until someone said- yeah, you can be healthy at any size, etc. I was very startled. That's just false. Obesity increases your risk of many health problems. Also being underweight. When I talked to my sister about my struggles with emotional eating and constant weight gain she was really supportive and "body positive, love yourself, etc." which I appreciated! Then when I told her I'd been losing a pound a week (a healthy, sustainable rate) in a healthy way and was excited for healing my body and behavior she was suddenly "worried" about me and treated me like I had low self-esteem or disordered thinking. It's weird. I've rarely felt bad about my body, I usually felt compassion for myself when I was overeating and obese. I'm still happy and excited for myself now that I'm "getting better."
This is too bad because I think body positivity and self-compassion are great. I can see how hating your body could lead to crash diets, doomed to fail and more self-loathing. I've been in a place emotionally where I wasn't "ready" to try to lose weight. I'm glad I wasn't hating myself during that time. I wish that for more people in my circle body positivity could include- hey, I'm working on losing weight right now for my health, comfort and appearance and this is "positive" too.2 -
Body positivity is literally why I am here. Weight is only one indicator of health, and it is a poor one at that. Furthermore, it often isn’t clear with many medical conditions whether extra weight makes the condition worse or whether the medical condition causes the extra weight.
The fact is that they way American society (and western society) thinks about weight and food in general is fundamentally disordered. Instead of wanting to take care of our bodies because we live in them and consider them deserving of respect, we’re taught that our value as people is inversely proportionate to the number on the scale. Is it any wonder so many people live unhealthy lifestyles when exercising is done to punish ourselves for taking up space? When food is a source of guilt rather than nourishment and pleasure? When we look in the mirror and are disgusted by the fat we “need” to lose rather than loving the changes fitness makes to our body?
I’ve lost and gained weight several times, mostly due to pregnancy. Right now, I’m losing again, but it isn’t my goal. It comes from a conscious decision that, due to little kids and a career change, I’ve fallen into unhealthy habits and I deserve to treat myself better than that.4 -
bathsheba_c wrote: »Body positivity is literally why I am here. Weight is only one indicator of health, and it is a poor one at that. Furthermore, it often isn’t clear with many medical conditions whether extra weight makes the condition worse or whether the medical condition causes the extra weight.
The fact is that they way American society (and western society) thinks about weight and food in general is fundamentally disordered. Instead of wanting to take care of our bodies because we live in them and consider them deserving of respect, we’re taught that our value as people is inversely proportionate to the number on the scale. Is it any wonder so many people live unhealthy lifestyles when exercising is done to punish ourselves for taking up space? When food is a source of guilt rather than nourishment and pleasure? When we look in the mirror and are disgusted by the fat we “need” to lose rather than loving the changes fitness makes to our body?
I’ve lost and gained weight several times, mostly due to pregnancy. Right now, I’m losing again, but it isn’t my goal. It comes from a conscious decision that, due to little kids and a career change, I’ve fallen into unhealthy habits and I deserve to treat myself better than that.
I couldn't possibly disagree with the bolded more than I do. Obesity increases dozens of risk factors for other diseases and saying it is a poor indicator of health is just flat out wrong. The argument that someone can be healthy at any size is absurd, and although an obese person may appear to be healthy at this given moment, give it time and that will not continue to be the case. Obesity takes a toll on the body in a number of ways, and I don't think it is disordered thinking to strive to live our lives within a healthy weight range. That doesn't mean that a persons value is determined by the number on the scale, and that is where you are confusing the issue. Body positivity means that the number on the scale doesn't define who you are as a person, or decrease your value, but it also doesn't mean that a person is healthy regardless of what that number is.14 -
As an obese person, I will say two things:
1) You have to be kind to yourself and you should be kind to each other because like many have said, you don't know anyone's story. Even if their troubles have nothing to do with their weight, it's icing on the cake when you say rude things. And
2) Being obese is very unhealthy and I'll say this from personal experience and from everything physiologically that we are told about being fat. I got to my high in May and started to experience severe muscle imbalance and had to go to PT for it. I am but one person and cannot attest to the majority, but I am one person who puts a tally on overweight=unhealthy vs overweight= who knows.
So I guess in a sense I do not believe in the body positivity movement insofar that obese people shouldn't change to try to lower their weight, but I DO believe in being nice to people. Actually shaming anyone is effed up, and it's the main reason I won't go workout in a gym (that is, on the floor or with the equipment). I hate the fit mentality that they can make comments, stare, or not-so-silently judge you for being overweight. It's hard enough getting there, and then swimming basically naked in front of anyone, but at least my gym's pool is usually empty.
I will place this caveat and say I'm losing weight and trying to lose a lot of weight so I'm "normal" again, but that makes me one of the "good ones" doesn't it? Still get stares and have gotten comments at the gym!4 -
bathsheba_c wrote: »Body positivity is literally why I am here. Weight is only one indicator of health, and it is a poor one at that. Furthermore, it often isn’t clear with many medical conditions whether extra weight makes the condition worse or whether the medical condition causes the extra weight.
The fact is that they way American society (and western society) thinks about weight and food in general is fundamentally disordered. Instead of wanting to take care of our bodies because we live in them and consider them deserving of respect, we’re taught that our value as people is inversely proportionate to the number on the scale. Is it any wonder so many people live unhealthy lifestyles when exercising is done to punish ourselves for taking up space? When food is a source of guilt rather than nourishment and pleasure? When we look in the mirror and are disgusted by the fat we “need” to lose rather than loving the changes fitness makes to our body?
I’ve lost and gained weight several times, mostly due to pregnancy. Right now, I’m losing again, but it isn’t my goal. It comes from a conscious decision that, due to little kids and a career change, I’ve fallen into unhealthy habits and I deserve to treat myself better than that.
I couldn't possibly disagree with the bolded more than I do. Obesity increases dozens of risk factors for other diseases and saying it is a poor indicator of health is just flat out wrong. The argument that someone can be healthy at any size is absurd, and although an obese person may appear to be healthy at this given moment, give it time and that will not continue to be the case. Obesity takes a toll on the body in a number of ways, and I don't think it is disordered thinking to strive to live our lives within a healthy weight range. That doesn't mean that a persons value is determined by the number on the scale, and that is where you are confusing the issue. Body positivity means that the number on the scale doesn't define who you are as a person, or decrease your value, but it also doesn't mean that a person is healthy regardless of what that number is.
It also reduces risk factors for some others. Additionally, there are major confounding factors in terms of bias from healthcare providers, and the mental health impact of bullying and constant societal disapproval; some issues may not be caused by obesity per se, but by stress and poor healthcare due to discrimination.
...now, having said that, I absolutely agree that obesity on its own does have a detrimental effect on health, and I have noticed that I am generally healthier since I lost weight and became fitter. But obese people will see this argument in the context of all the bullying and misdiagnosing* they're currently receiving, and it's not really surprising that they're often resistant to it.
* I had at least four different doctors tell me that my ankle problems were because I was fat and would go away if I lose weight. After ten years, a doctor finally ordered an x-ray and discovered that my ankle was actually broken. Similarly, I went to a counsellor with depression and anxiety and she tried to get me to join a self-help group for eating disorders. I have major family history, was on medication that has depression as a listed side effect, and still struggle with mental health issues now that I'm 'thin'...7 -
I believe the only obese people who may want to buy into the idea that it is not increasing their health risks or that it is mainstream beautiful are in denial and not ready to lose weight anyway. I think it is silly to think it could convince your average obese person that being fat is a good thing.
In the real world fat is not acceptable and it is the subject of stares and sometimes mocking. It is ludicrous to think that one person in your ear telling you that it is okay is going to offset all the negativity you will encounter.
What the BP movement could do is help people feel good about themselves as they lose weight. Helping someone remain patient as they lose could be helpful but I think even that is a hard sell.
The real movement should be that obese people are more than just the sum of their fat. Learning to love yourself does not require that you like everything about yourself. It is okay to hate being fat but do not let that be a shadow over the rest of the ways you are awesome.7 -
I work at an Eating Disorder Clinic, I personally see it as good and bad. Good because people are embracing their own bodies. However there seems to be more bad than good, the pressure on outward appearance is higher and inattention to maintain a healthy lifestyle.0
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