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Jillian Michael comments about Lizzo
Replies
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corinasue1143 wrote: »So I’m just wondering, why are a 7 and 10 year old listening to her?
Because she's a successful pop star whose songs are played on the radio?9 -
Ummm. My 4 year old loves the song Truth Hurts. But we aren't here to discuss anyone's parenting are we.7
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Everyone (or nearly everyone) loves Jennifer Hudson. Nearly everyone loves Oprah. Most love James Cordan. These are people that have, currently or in the past, struggled with weight. Most on here have as well! That's why we're here.
What the public has a problem with, in general, is someone claiming "I'm perfect just how I am", when in reality they are a perfect storm physically. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you have a weight problem and working on it. No one gets ripped for that, except by idiots that shouldn't matter. It's when someone, who could be considered a role model for some denies everything we currently know about human health, it's problematic. JM is a loudmouth, fat shaming "trainer". That's how she got famous. What do people expect out of her?
Being obese in the public eye would be incredibly difficult, so I feel for anyone in that position and the pressure they must feel. But when they declare that they are "healthy" or perfect physically, they should know they are making their own situation worse. People will be mean and nasty. No sense in giving them more ammunition.6 -
I don't keep up to date with what celebrities are doing or saying, but has Lizzo ever come out and say "I am perfectly healthy just the way I am." ?? I was under the impression it was more of a "I love myself" which everyone should regardless of their weight.15
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I don't keep up to date with what celebrities are doing or saying, but has Lizzo ever come out and say "I am perfectly healthy just the way I am." ?? I was under the impression it was more of a "I love myself" which everyone should regardless of their weight.
That's my impression as well: That she thinks it's good to be happy in the body she has, and find it sexy, and that she's struggled to reach that attitude after many years when others disparaged her for her weight . . . I don't think her aim is to encourage people to be overweight. (She has been quoted as saying she feels healthy.)
This harkens back to something earlier in the thread (that I didn't say, BTW): That things get twisted to the point where being fat and happy is somehow treated as transgressive. Once people harshly criticize a celebrity over weight (or weight + happiness), I don't think it's realistic to ask that celebrity not to snap back in some way. And I don't think that snap-back needs to be "it is bad and unhealthy that I'm fat, but I'm happy anyway".6 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Everyone (or nearly everyone) loves Jennifer Hudson. Nearly everyone loves Oprah. Most love James Cordan. These are people that have, currently or in the past, struggled with weight. Most on here have as well! That's why we're here.
What the public has a problem with, in general, is someone claiming "I'm perfect just how I am", when in reality they are a perfect storm physically. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you have a weight problem and working on it. No one gets ripped for that, except by idiots that shouldn't matter. It's when someone, who could be considered a role model for some denies everything we currently know about human health, it's problematic. JM is a loudmouth, fat shaming "trainer". That's how she got famous. What do people expect out of her?
Being obese in the public eye would be incredibly difficult, so I feel for anyone in that position and the pressure they must feel. But when they declare that they are "healthy" or perfect physically, they should know they are making their own situation worse. People will be mean and nasty. No sense in giving them more ammunition.
Why does Lizzo have to publicly perform distress about her weight for us? Why can't she have access to the same range of self-affirmations that a thin singer would? I would argue that nobody can reasonably conclude that she is declaring her actual perfection. "I'm perfect just as I am" is an anodyne statement in most hands, declaring it off-limit to the fat but open to others seems suspect.
So we're in a weird space here. Either you would insist that anyone making a pretty benign statement of self-acceptance immediately qualify it by stating their flaws or you're saying that these kind of statements are only for those within certain weight limits.
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Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
She's literally just inhabiting her body.
I don't get the logic of saying "She's doing the same thing other celebrities do" and then declaring that she's "rubbing our faces in it" and "using a different tool."
It's a body. That some of us respond differently to her body doing it than we would to another body doing it is about *us*, not about her.
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So. I like Jillian Michaels. I like Lizzo. I like what they both bring to the world.
I don't know Lizzo personally - but if I had to make a guess, she is probably like an awful lot of us, wishing to be thinner/smaller/fitter, whatever and finding a lot of barriers to doing so - maybe it's time, maybe it's motivation, maybe she is a binge eater...maybe a lot of things. I say ALL those things, and have always said all those things. the heaviest I've ever been is 238 lbs (non pregnant). I've been as small as 160 (in my much younger years). Even at my favorite weight - 180, I'm still "big". What I take from Lizzo's brand of body positivity isn't "tell me how healthy it is to be obese". I don't think anybody is saying that. I think what she is trying to put out there is more like - "listen, this is what my body is right now, and I've decided to love it unconditionally". And those are NOT the same things. She is probably pretty healthy - I've been a healthy fat person pretty much my entire adult life - but even so, I KNOW (and so does every other fat person) that I continue to put myself at risk for health problems as I get older, even though I have been lucky so far. It's problematic to think that we need to be told that - we don't. We already know, and everybody has their own reasons for continuing to gain or to not lose weight.
I love what Lizzo does - I love that she is unapologetic about her body and what it is, and that she loves herself. I am envious. And I love that there are people out there publicly saying that they also love her body, and being publicly attracted to her. I wish to god I would have seen something like that when I was a teenager and thought that nobody was ever going to want to date me because of my weight. I would have loved to have had somebody visibly saying - hey, this is what the skinny girls wear...and you know what? So do I. Because I love it and that's what matters to me. It probably would have saved me years of crying about why I couldn't find clothes that I liked.
Would it have ever convinced me that there was a way to be obese and maintain good health permanently? No - because I do feel like it's a bit of a ticking time bomb - you're healthy until youre not, which is true for everybody. At my healthiest, 180 lbs, still overweight, I was running half marathons and working out harder and more than almost any thin person I knew - i WAS healthy. But would I always be? I have literally no idea. And because I'm no dense, and nor is Lizzo...I bet she already knows that and doesn't need to be told. But is gonna love herself the way she is, just as much as she would love herself if she were smaller.
I also like Jillian Michaels - I like that she has made and maintained permanent changes and is committed to helping others do the same. I like her workouts. I think her point, though badly made, was not meant to be offensive, but was meant to say - hey, I like her music, I like what she does, what her body looks like doesn't matter, but I do hope that she is taking care of her health". What she did say was offensive, intentional or not.
And this Is why we should not be asking anybody their thoughts on anybody elses body9 -
Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)8 -
I just feel like- you want to have a conversation about Lizzo's body? Fine. Get an interview with Lizzo. Want to have a conversation about health/weight/etc in general? Sure. Call Jillian Michaels. I think the question was meant to tempt JM to say something negative about Lizzo. Why? Maybe because people love drama.13
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's no more than what most of us have seen from Christina Aguilera or Cher or Howard Stern or Nicki Minaj or Madonna and somehow it all worked out. Is Lizzo doing it for a PR stunt or attention to a greater degree than those people?9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.12 -
jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
To be clear, I think what Lizzo did at that game was inappropriate. But it is hardly uncommon for a celebrity to be partially exposed in a public place (or prime time TV) for attention.8 -
jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.14 -
I was just having a conversation about this! A friend worries about his mother, whose doctor has told her that she will die if she doesn't lose weight - she, however, is in denial.
I really think that Jillian Michaels has a point but could have framed her response a little differently. I love Lizzo as a musician and I stand behind the body positive movement - to a degree. I want everyone to feel comfortable, safe, and respected as they are, but I also worry that the body positive movement is becoming a bit anti-health. Medical research links obesity with significant health risks . . . So, love your body. Accept your body. But also, consider nourishing and caring for your body. Don't do it for your body image, though, do it for your life.
As a repeat MFP user (and by repeat I mean I've been back and forth for years, losing thirty pounds that inevitably makes its way back) I can honestly say that until I respected myself and liked myself enough to lose weight properly, I was not successful. Now I am at a healthy weight and working mostly on recomp. I could stand to lose a few, but my body feels fit and healthy - so that's no longer my focus. So, moral of that story, body positivity has its place. Reconciling your positive body image with potential negative health outcomes is where the truly difficult work begins.
You can love yourself and still take your health into account, basically, and IMO that's real body positivity - not the anti-health garbage the media feeds us.8 -
I love Lizzo's music and her positive body image message. Jillian Michaels is not necessarily wrong but I agree she was prompted to say something negative and being Jillian she did not disappoint. There is always room for kindness and not snarkiness - which might have rec'd a more positive reception.5
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janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
@janejellyroll I agree. I like how some people seem to forget that nowadays children have the whole world (internet) in their pockets. Her whole *kitten* was hanging out? Yeah.... and? Lizzo isn't the first-born only Madonna, but is everyone forgetting Miley Cyrus post Hannah Montana? - and certainly won't be the last. I do believe people are making a big deal about her size. What I don't understand is why it's anybody's business12 -
* not only Madonna0
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BuiltLikeAPeep wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
@janejellyroll I agree. I like how some people seem to forget that nowadays children have the whole world (internet) in their pockets. Her whole *kitten* was hanging out? Yeah.... and? Lizzo isn't the first-born only Madonna, but is everyone forgetting Miley Cyrus post Hannah Montana? - and certainly won't be the last. I do believe people are making a big deal about her size. What I don't understand is why it's anybody's business
I am not saying that what Jillian Michaels said was right, or even in good taste, but I also feel that its ridiculous to not expect people to have a reaction to the way she dressed at the game. As you pointed out, she is definitely not the first person to display her body publically like that, but everyone in the past had to accept the attention they received for it whether it was positive or negative. There was a ton of negative feedback after the whole "wardrome malfunction" at the superbowl, and I don't think that everyone should just be forced to accept the idea that she is exploring her body by dressing like that. As the father of three young daughters, I would absolutely not be ok with them dressing like that in public, and I don't think that it would be considered body shaming to make them aware I felt that way. There is a big difference between loving the body you are in, and deliberately doing things to draw attention to yourself which I think was exactly the goal at that game. With that said, I don't think that gives Jillian Michaels(or anyone) the right to discuss her body the way she did, nor do I think it was ok for the interviewer to ask the question. I may think the way she dresses at times is in bad taste, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am body shaming her.11 -
BuiltLikeAPeep wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
@janejellyroll I agree. I like how some people seem to forget that nowadays children have the whole world (internet) in their pockets. Her whole *kitten* was hanging out? Yeah.... and? Lizzo isn't the first-born only Madonna, but is everyone forgetting Miley Cyrus post Hannah Montana? - and certainly won't be the last. I do believe people are making a big deal about her size. What I don't understand is why it's anybody's business
I am not saying that what Jillian Michaels said was right, or even in good taste, but I also feel that its ridiculous to not expect people to have a reaction to the way she dressed at the game. As you pointed out, she is definitely not the first person to display her body publically like that, but everyone in the past had to accept the attention they received for it whether it was positive or negative. There was a ton of negative feedback after the whole "wardrome malfunction" at the superbowl, and I don't think that everyone should just be forced to accept the idea that she is exploring her body by dressing like that. As the father of three young daughters, I would absolutely not be ok with them dressing like that in public, and I don't think that it would be considered body shaming to make them aware I felt that way. There is a big difference between loving the body you are in, and deliberately doing things to draw attention to yourself which I think was exactly the goal at that game. With that said, I don't think that gives Jillian Michaels(or anyone) the right to discuss her body the way she did, nor do I think it was ok for the interviewer to ask the question. I may think the way she dresses at times is in bad taste, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am body shaming her.
And the Laker Girls uniforms are different because . . . the bootie shorts or bikini bottoms are just a little more coverage (not much)? . . . they're paid to be professionally underdressed at the event? . . . they're slim and fit? . . . or . . . ?
I'm not the parent of young daughters, but I think if I were, I'd be more inclined to be distressed** about these young women - fit and skilled as they absolutely are - being the formal representation of women at this kind of event, vs. what some random person (celebrity or no) does up in the audience to draw attention. Others absolutely are entitled to feel differently about this, of course.
** In actual real-life practice, I'd consider either of these displays to be a thing that would take some 'splaining to my daughters. Again, just me, not a required opinion for others.14 -
janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
The way I understand it she was an audience member showing her *kitten* at a game not a performer. The last time I saw a sporting event none of the cheerleaders or scheduled entertainers were wearing visible thongs.
NBD, she is most likely somewhere around 14:30 on her 15:00 minutes if she feels she needs to do that to get attention.9 -
Lost me at Jillian Michaels....6
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psychod787 wrote: »Lost me at Jillian Michaels....
My feelings also. Her 15 minutes are long expired.3 -
BuiltLikeAPeep wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
@janejellyroll I agree. I like how some people seem to forget that nowadays children have the whole world (internet) in their pockets. Her whole *kitten* was hanging out? Yeah.... and? Lizzo isn't the first-born only Madonna, but is everyone forgetting Miley Cyrus post Hannah Montana? - and certainly won't be the last. I do believe people are making a big deal about her size. What I don't understand is why it's anybody's business
A ball game should be the one place where there’s no *kitten* and breasts shoved in their faces though. Miley got her fair share of criticism. I honestly don’t think people are tripping for the sole fact that she’s big. It’s the fact that she’s obnoxious with it now.11 -
Personally, I think it's a point that needs to be made more by fitness folks when they're asked. Jillian clearly also said:
"I'm not saying you are not a beautiful person, I'm not saying you're not physically beautiful, but I'm saying being obese is not a beautiful thing, it's actually a sad thing. Dying early, obesity-related health conditions, bankrupting yourself...which is the number-one cause of bankruptcy, are health-related conditions."
People made this out to be fat shaming but it if you read the full transcript and take in context she's only talking about the health ramifications of being obese. She's a trainer, this is 100% the appropriate response. IMO, it only became a thing because it was part of a conversation about a famous person. Had it been some Joe blow they probably praise her for the same statements.
It was clear to me she wasn't personally attacking but just pointing out that today we are pushing this "healthy at any weight" BS and the fact is that's totally incorrect.13 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
The way I understand it she was an audience member showing her *kitten* at a game not a performer. The last time I saw a sporting event none of the cheerleaders or scheduled entertainers were wearing visible thongs.
NBD, she is most likely somewhere around 14:30 on her 15:00 minutes if she feels she needs to do that to get attention.
So the argument is that it is appropriate to show parts of your body if you're performing, but if you're merely part of the audience it isn't? I am not convinced of this. What's the relevant difference?
If she had been performing at halftime in that uniform, it would somehow be more acceptable?10 -
I dont think what Jillian said was wrong.10
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BuiltLikeAPeep wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
@janejellyroll I agree. I like how some people seem to forget that nowadays children have the whole world (internet) in their pockets. Her whole *kitten* was hanging out? Yeah.... and? Lizzo isn't the first-born only Madonna, but is everyone forgetting Miley Cyrus post Hannah Montana? - and certainly won't be the last. I do believe people are making a big deal about her size. What I don't understand is why it's anybody's business
I am not saying that what Jillian Michaels said was right, or even in good taste, but I also feel that its ridiculous to not expect people to have a reaction to the way she dressed at the game. As you pointed out, she is definitely not the first person to display her body publically like that, but everyone in the past had to accept the attention they received for it whether it was positive or negative. There was a ton of negative feedback after the whole "wardrome malfunction" at the superbowl, and I don't think that everyone should just be forced to accept the idea that she is exploring her body by dressing like that. As the father of three young daughters, I would absolutely not be ok with them dressing like that in public, and I don't think that it would be considered body shaming to make them aware I felt that way. There is a big difference between loving the body you are in, and deliberately doing things to draw attention to yourself which I think was exactly the goal at that game. With that said, I don't think that gives Jillian Michaels(or anyone) the right to discuss her body the way she did, nor do I think it was ok for the interviewer to ask the question. I may think the way she dresses at times is in bad taste, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am body shaming her.
And the Laker Girls uniforms are different because . . . the bootie shorts or bikini bottoms are just a little more coverage (not much)? . . . they're paid to be professionally underdressed at the event? . . . they're slim and fit? . . . or . . . ?
I'm not the parent of young daughters, but I think if I were, I'd be more inclined to be distressed** about these young women - fit and skilled as they absolutely are - being the formal representation of women at this kind of event, vs. what some random person (celebrity or no) does up in the audience to draw attention. Others absolutely are entitled to feel differently about this, of course.
** In actual real-life practice, I'd consider either of these displays to be a thing that would take some 'splaining to my daughters. Again, just me, not a required opinion for others.
The conversation wasn't surrounding the Laker Girls uniforms, and I think that is a completely different debate topic. There are plenty of things I worry about as a parent, and I wouldn't want my daughters leaving the house dressed as skimpy as they are either. When I said what Lizzo was wearing was in bad taste, that in no way meant that I agreed with what everyone else in the arena was wearing that day.13 -
I'm no fan of her's as a trainer but she has a valid opinion on this one .psychod787 wrote: »Lost me at Jillian Michaels....
7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Regarding Lizzo... Lizzo rubs her body in people's faces in a way that seems like a PR stunt. As an example just google Lizzo Lakers and warning what she did at the Lakers game is NSFW. Lizzo does the same thing other celebs do but she is appealing to a different demographic so she is using a different tool.
I interpret JM as saying Lizzo should not be defined by and should not get value by her body but more so by her singing. While it doesn't objectify via reduction to Lizzo's body, it is wrong also.
IMO the saddest thing about this and most movements is companies & celebs are telling people what emotions are ok to feel - and now we should only feel positive emotions about our bodies. It should be ok to feel all emotions about our bodies because we are human, our self worth and value is not based on external changeable factors but on the sole fact we are human.
Unless she made physical contact with people's faces, she is not rubbing her body in people's faces. She's just going out in the world in the body she lives in, and how other people react to that is their choice. (I don't click on NSW videos, so I don't know what she did, but since it's "the same thing other celebs do" I have to assume it's not illegal, like indecent exposure.)
It's not a literal term and you know that. She wore a dress that had a giant circle cut out of the rear that showed her complete *kitten* which was only covered by a thong. She then, in a public place, with tens of thousands of people present - many of them young children, twerked that uncovered *kitten* for everybody to see.
Nice "whataboutisms" further down - but I don't think Madonna, Howard Stern, or any other celebrity that I can think of has done something like this at a sports game in recent memory... maybe on stage or in Howard's case to promote a stupid movie.
So the parents of these young children are okay with the uniforms of the Laker Girls, which expose nearly as much, but seeing Lizzo's body is the bridge too far? We see as much of other celebrities all the time. Opposing it as a general trend, I get, but claiming that Lizzo is somehow worse is ridiculous. She's not the first celebrity to appear in the thong, she's not the first celebrity to twerk, she's not the first celebrity to reveal to kids that adults have butts.
Has Madonna done something like this in *recent* memory? Not that I'm aware of. But come on, you're acting like bringing up *Madonna* isn't relevant in a discussion about how Lizzo isn't the first female singer to display her body? That's not "whataboutism," it's acknowledging the reality that Lizzo is part of a hearty and longstanding tradition of female singers, she's just one of the biggest people to engage in it.
The way I understand it she was an audience member showing her *kitten* at a game not a performer. The last time I saw a sporting event none of the cheerleaders or scheduled entertainers were wearing visible thongs.
NBD, she is most likely somewhere around 14:30 on her 15:00 minutes if she feels she needs to do that to get attention.
So the argument is that it is appropriate to show parts of your body if you're performing, but if you're merely part of the audience it isn't? I am not convinced of this. What's the relevant difference?
If she had been performing at halftime in that uniform, it would somehow be more acceptable?
The spectators generally know what the cheerleader look like at a sporting event and the leagues have certain standards they must abide by. They also have rules for costumes used by any of the entertainment at the game. If a spectator doesn't want to see the league approved dress (cheerleaders or entertainment), they have the right not to go to the event.
If the NBA says a thong is fine dress for an entertainer, go for it with my blessings. If a publicity hound chooses to drop his or her drawers at a sporting event not really a fan of that.10
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