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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat

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Replies

  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
    After41 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    1 g fiber according to this.

    The photo you included in your own post has 3 g.

    It was quoted from an old post someone in the forum posted. 3 g is way too much for someone who would eat 2 or 3 servings of this.

    Huh? Why is 3g of fiber too much??
  • ladyreva78
    ladyreva78 Posts: 4,080 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    1 g fiber according to this.

    The photo you included in your own post has 3 g.

    It was quoted from an old post someone in the forum posted. 3 g is way too much for someone who would eat 2 or 3 servings of this.

    Huh? Why is 3g of fiber too much??

    or even 9g if someone is eating 3 servings of this?
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    1 g fiber according to this.

    The photo you included in your own post has 3 g.

    It was quoted from an old post someone in the forum posted. 3 g is way too much for someone who would eat 2 or 3 servings of this.

    Huh? I don't understand.

    I guess someone might eat 2-3 servings of burger per day, but I think that would be unusual for a plant-based eater.

    And 3g x 3 servings is 9g of fiber . . . my (roughly) 1 cup of black beans at last night's dinner had around 15g fiber all by itself, in a day that had only 36g total (low, for me). Why would 9g be "way too much"?

    I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about what you're trying to say.

    Maybe the poster forgot we were talking about fiber and is saying 3 g of carbs is too much?

    Because saying 3 g of fiber is too much is bizarre -- personally, I try to get around 50 g per day, although I don't always (depends on my bean consumption, usually, as my veg and fruit and nut/seed consumption is pretty consistent most days.)

    Anyway, I agree with those who say it's odd to assume one would consume 2-3 servings of the product -- personally I don't consume 2-3 servings of ground beef, so why would I consume 2-3 servings of fake beef (hypothetically)?
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,498 Member
    edited February 2020
    gearhead426hemi wrote: »
    As a small farmer that grows or raises the majority of what my family consumes I HATE getting advise from people who don't grow or raise anything. I have found that the loudest most annoying people who preach about not eating meat and only eating organic don't grow anything they consume. I totally support people to eat whatever they want and live the lifestyle that makes you feel the best physically and emotionally. When it comes to food I am a firm believer that if you aren't growing or raising it yourself you shouldn't be on your soap box lecturing others.

    I have a close friend that chose to go vegetarian after working as a butcher for years. He turned his entire small backyard into a garden. He lives in Colorado and his yard is 20 feet by 20 feet and he grows what he can with the changing seasons. He even has a small enclosed greenhouse to grow small fruit trees on his back porch. He has been promoting his neighbors to grow more even if they don't choose to go full vegan or vegetarian. He gives his neighbors seeds from his crops and helps them set up irrigation systems and teaches them about soil PH and other gardening tips.

    If you want to sway people one way or the other lead by example.

    "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar"


    Yeah when 7% of the US adult population thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows there is probably a need for some more education on what we eat before opening mouths.

    https://texashillcountry.com/chocolate-milk-brown-cows/
  • wmd1979
    wmd1979 Posts: 469 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    gearhead426hemi wrote: »
    As a small farmer that grows or raises the majority of what my family consumes I HATE getting advise from people who don't grow or raise anything. I have found that the loudest most annoying people who preach about not eating meat and only eating organic don't grow anything they consume. I totally support people to eat whatever they want and live the lifestyle that makes you feel the best physically and emotionally. When it comes to food I am a firm believer that if you aren't growing or raising it yourself you shouldn't be on your soap box lecturing others.

    I have a close friend that chose to go vegetarian after working as a butcher for years. He turned his entire small backyard into a garden. He lives in Colorado and his yard is 20 feet by 20 feet and he grows what he can with the changing seasons. He even has a small enclosed greenhouse to grow small fruit trees on his back porch. He has been promoting his neighbors to grow more even if they don't choose to go full vegan or vegetarian. He gives his neighbors seeds from his crops and helps them set up irrigation systems and teaches them about soil PH and other gardening tips.

    If you want to sway people one way or the other lead by example.

    "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar"


    Yeah when 7% of the US adult population thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows there is probably a need for some more education on what we eat before opening mouths.

    https://texashillcountry.com/chocolate-milk-brown-cows/

    That only proves that a good percentage of the population is stupid. I'm not saying that more education is a bad thing, but let's face it, there are always going to be uneducated people regardless of the topic. Some people have zero interest in learning.
  • COGypsy
    COGypsy Posts: 1,365 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    1 g fiber according to this.

    The photo you included in your own post has 3 g.

    It was quoted from an old post someone in the forum posted. 3 g is way too much for someone who would eat 2 or 3 servings of this.

    Huh? I don't understand.

    I guess someone might eat 2-3 servings of burger per day, but I think that would be unusual for a plant-based eater.

    And 3g x 3 servings is 9g of fiber . . . my (roughly) 1 cup of black beans at last night's dinner had around 15g fiber all by itself, in a day that had only 36g total (low, for me). Why would 9g be "way too much"?

    I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about what you're trying to say.

    Maybe the poster forgot we were talking about fiber and is saying 3 g of carbs is too much?

    Because saying 3 g of fiber is too much is bizarre -- personally, I try to get around 50 g per day, although I don't always (depends on my bean consumption, usually, as my veg and fruit and nut/seed consumption is pretty consistent most days.)

    Anyway, I agree with those who say it's odd to assume one would consume 2-3 servings of the product -- personally I don't consume 2-3 servings of ground beef, so why would I consume 2-3 servings of fake beef (hypothetically)?

    I eat a low-ish fiber diet (top out at 15-20 g max per day, depending on symptoms) and don't see a problem with the 3g in the Beyond Meat. I can't imagine eating 2-3 servings of any kind of ground meat/faux meat in one sitting, though.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    pg5qw8zt169w.jpg

    Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.

    It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.

    If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.

    To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.

    To be clear, the food being "replaced" by the Impossible Whopper is the regular Whopper. Is that argument that someone is losing out on a nutritious staple food if they make that swap?
  • rodnichols69
    rodnichols69 Posts: 83 Member
    3kygdq15niey.jpg
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    pg5qw8zt169w.jpg

    Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.

    It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.

    If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.

    To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.

    You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.

    So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".

    It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.

    I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.

    Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.
  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,508 Member
    I'm not a fan of fake anything.

  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.

    I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    pg5qw8zt169w.jpg

    Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.

    It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.

    If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.

    To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.

    You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.

    So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".

    It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.

    I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.

    Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."


    I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?
  • ceiswyn
    ceiswyn Posts: 2,256 Member
    edited February 2020
    onward1 wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    onward1 wrote: »
    They look gross. Not much of a meat eater here, but if I wanted meat why would I eat something fake? Pretend meat,lol. And in my experience most fake stuff has alot of sodium, I wouldn't know about this product, as I walked past it in the store, like I said, it looked gross.

    Because I'm a vegetarian and don't want to kill an animal?

    I had no idea that there's vegan's out there who are craving meat, interesting. Does that mean you don't use any leather products, as leather is from an animal ?

    Errr... yes?

    That's kind of how vegetarianism works?

    (And it is definitely how veganism works. The two are different things, by the way.)
  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
    rodnichols69 wrote: »
    3kygdq15niey.jpg

    The number one ingredient in the cat food I buy is "pig entrails". Number 2 is salmon.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited February 2020
    aokoye wrote: »
    rodnichols69 wrote: »
    3kygdq15niey.jpg

    Well let's take a look at the ingredient list from a not especially high quality US dog food. Pedigree dry beef and lamb flavor:
    • Ground whole corn: so I guess no polenta/grits for you?
    • Meat and bone meal: while I personally have no desire to include bonemeal in my hamburger, chicken paitan ramen broth involves grinding the bones into the broth.
    • Animal fat: people claim lard makes the best pie crusts all the time, next.
    • Soybean meal: soy is a staple food product in plenty of places and I wouldn't be shocked if the soy in the dog food is coming from the remnants of soy milk production.
    • Natural flavoring: your orange juice probably has this as well
    • Chicken by product meal - eat more offal, if you like it that is. People do it all the time.
    • Dried plain beet pulp - beets...
    • Salt, potassium chloride - so losalt
    • Brewers rice - this is basically rice that had a very hard time down the production line and got broken into very small pieces
    • Ground whole grain wheat - if you don't like whole grain wheat that's on you, but it makes for good food (though sometimes hard to work with as the only flour in a recipe)
    And so one and so forth.

    Thanks for this. I was going to do it, but you saved me. Amusingly, the only ingredients your list shares with the list I went through of the BeyondBeef is the natural flavors, the beets, and the salt and potassium chloride.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.

    I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.

    Wasn't saying anyone should be denied anything.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    pg5qw8zt169w.jpg

    Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.

    It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.

    If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.

    To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.

    You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.

    So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".

    It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.

    I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.

    Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."


    I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?

    To be fair, I kinda agree. I don't think most of the disagreers here have anything to do with big cattle. They may have been socially conditioned by big cattle (no idea, I don't live in the US), but it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction because their choice feels superior and/or they feel their choices are being challenged. People don't like societal shifts in general and feel pride in their established beliefs and choices. Choice supportive bias is a very prevalent cognitive bias that we all have, so it tends to have an even larger effect with choices that we identify as part of our identity because of it having certain morality undertones ("I'm a meat eater and my choice is superior and not immoral, therefore the alternative choice must be inferior in some way"). Not to mention that people are generally wary of new things and are slow to accept them.

    This and I also don't see a difference between the "Ah! Fake meat is processed!!" seen here and any other "Ah!! Processed food is bad for you!!" that we see in so many other threads.

    Sure, it was mentioned upthread that we don't see these concerns voiced about protein powder (despite it's being processed) but we see that pointed out in almost every processed/clean foods thread.

    The fact that protein powder doesn't get the normal amount of grief for being processed is it's own phenomenon and I think is probably largely due to the fact that it is associated with fitness.
    People in general perceive protein powder as a fitness/health/weight loss aid (as misguided as that may be).
    Veggie burgers, convenience foods, etc. don't generally have that same perception (although some people do wrongly assume plant based in inherently healthier) and thus don't enjoy the same lack of critique.

    People throw stones at "processed food" for the same reasons that they throw them at fast food, convenience foods, sugar, GMOs, etc..
    To claim that veggie burgers only catch the same stones (on a site like MFP nonetheless) because hayseed Trumpers want us to buy beef is a pretty silly conspiracy theory.
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