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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
In some sense, protein powder is also a replacement for animal protein, is about as ultra-processed as food gets, and there's a lot of money being spent to create that market, too. It seems like the range of reactions is different. Why?
(For clarity, I'm not criticizing either product, or the people who eat them.)
I think protein powders are seen more as a supplement than a replacement food--or at least that's my impression.
Except people are consuming protein powder when they could get protein from other sources, animal or vegetable. It is acting as a replacement for another food. Sure there are people who see it as a supplement, but it's replacing another food source. Note that I don't have any thoughts with regards to the health benefits of consuming or not consuming protein powder.
What's also interesting is that the "replacement" in this case is usually consumed way less often than the "supplement. Some people consume protein powder daily, even twice a day.8 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
In some sense, protein powder is also a replacement for animal protein, is about as ultra-processed as food gets, and there's a lot of money being spent to create that market, too. It seems like the range of reactions is different. Why?
(For clarity, I'm not criticizing either product, or the people who eat them.)
I think protein powders are seen more as a supplement than a replacement food--or at least that's my impression.
Except people are consuming protein powder when they could get protein from other sources, animal or vegetable. It is acting as a replacement for another food. Sure there are people who see it as a supplement, but it's replacing another food source. Note that I don't have any thoughts with regards to the health benefits of consuming or not consuming protein powder.
What's also interesting is that the "replacement" in this case is usually consumed way less often than the "supplement. Some people consume protein powder daily, even twice a day.
That was my thought too. Protein powder is very commonly a daily thing for those who use it.
These products that we've been discussing are more like a replacement for a fast food or other restaurant burger (and I'm assuming for someone who would bother with that, we are talking like once a week or likely less). While, sure, there are likely people who consume ground beef daily or almost, I doubt they are the ones thinking of using these products or that they would use them more than as an occasional replacement.
It's not like there are no other protein sources even if one does not eat meat for ethical reasons. I'm limiting meat and haven't tried these products because I mostly prefer whole foods (NOT because I think that's required for health) and don't even consume protein powder (I did for a while but decided it was not for me). I do often have meals where instead of meat I get protein from beans or lentils or -- gasp! -- tofu or tempeh, and although I haven't cared for store-bought seitan I'm going to try making my own to see if I like it. If the bad thing (even perhaps with those of us, like me, who still eat some meat and eggs and dairy) is substituting for meat/animal sourced foods, I guess these foods are all bad too.5 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.
So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".
It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.
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They look gross. Not much of a meat eater here, but if I wanted meat why would I eat something fake? Pretend meat,lol. And in my experience most fake stuff has alot of sodium, I wouldn't know about this product, as I walked past it in the store, like I said, it looked gross.
Because I'm a vegetarian and don't want to kill an animal?
I had no idea that there's vegan's out there who are craving meat, interesting. Does that mean you don't use any leather products, as leather is from an animal ?0 -
As far as the original topic, I won't be trying any meat replacers any time soon it just seems a little weird to me. If I want to eat a burger I want it to be meat. If I want to eat vegetables I will eat vegetables. [/quote]
^This. No judgement here, eat what you like. Beyond burger is fake meat and the fact that it's made to look real is comical to me, sorry if that offends anyone. Personally, I don't eat burgers, or much meat, but when I want a NY strip steak stuffed with bleu cheese, then ya, I want the real deal.0 -
As far as the original topic, I won't be trying any meat replacers any time soon it just seems a little weird to me. If I want to eat a burger I want it to be meat. If I want to eat vegetables I will eat vegetables.
^This. No judgement here, eat what you like. Beyond burger is fake meat and the fact that it's made to look real is comical to me, sorry if that offends anyone. Personally, I don't eat burgers, or much meat, but when I want a NY strip steak stuffed with bleu cheese, then ya, I want the real deal.
Having options is a good thing
Some vegans do like meat and miss it but struggle with the idea of eating real animals. If there wasn't a market for such a product it wouldn't have existed - there are people who prefer the fake thing for one reason or another. Thankfully, food preferences are personal and don't carry any inherent superiority.
If I had the choice, personally, I would go for the fake meat every time. I imagine beyond burger tastes close enough to the real thing but with less "meatiness". It's the meaty aftertaste that I dislike about meat and my burger is usually full of add ons and condiments to drown down the meaty aftertaste. I like burgers because of the way they make the bread taste, so close enough to the real thing but not the real thing would hit the spot for me.
*Edited to fix quotes4 -
I'm still waiting for Soylent Green.1
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
In some sense, protein powder is also a replacement for animal protein, is about as ultra-processed as food gets, and there's a lot of money being spent to create that market, too. It seems like the range of reactions is different. Why?
(For clarity, I'm not criticizing either product, or the people who eat them.)
I think protein powders are seen more as a supplement than a replacement food--or at least that's my impression.
Except people are consuming protein powder when they could get protein from other sources, animal or vegetable. It is acting as a replacement for another food. Sure there are people who see it as a supplement, but it's replacing another food source. Note that I don't have any thoughts with regards to the health benefits of consuming or not consuming protein powder.
I don't think protein powder is viewed that way--bars and shakes are not mainstream meals. It's not sold in the meat case--it's in the diet, supplement, and health isles/stores.
The aim is not to create/satisfy a niche market with these alternate proteins. Have you read this from EAT-Lancet?
"However, the scale of change to the food system is unlikely to be successful if left to the individual or the whim of consumer choice. This change requires reframing at the population and systemic level. By contrast, hard policy interventions include laws, fiscal measures, subsidies and penalties, trade reconfiguration,and other economic and structural measures."
These types of statements, the lack of supporting science and the money involved should give everyone pause.
I agree that there's potentially some interesting debate over in that direction, about the macro-scale implications if the ambitions of some faux-meat producers really get traction. It's multi-dimensional: Both camps have strong lobbies (one more mature), there are variant ecological implications, certainly there are economic implications, there may be nutritional implications (perhaps in the realm beyond known macro/micronutrient needs), and much more.
That wasn't really the focus of the discussion though, at the point you entered with a comment about relative nutrition, the more micro-focused aspect of the situation that was in play at the time.
The focus was on why the nutritional implications and ultra-processed-ness of faux meat products seems to get more attention (mostly negative) than other equally ultra-processed products. I think there's a cultural aspect there, some psychological factors, some emotion - not necessarily in you, personally - but in the seeming overall tendency for faux meats to catch an extra-special amount of critique over processing and ingredients.
We've probably beaten that dead horse enough, though. I just wanted to point out that I felt there was a shift of scale happening in these few posts, and agree that there could be a lively debate on those more macro-level implications, too., even though it's not the same debate.
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They look gross. Not much of a meat eater here, but if I wanted meat why would I eat something fake? Pretend meat,lol. And in my experience most fake stuff has alot of sodium, I wouldn't know about this product, as I walked past it in the store, like I said, it looked gross.
Because I'm a vegetarian and don't want to kill an animal?
I had no idea that there's vegan's out there who are craving meat, interesting. Does that mean you don't use any leather products, as leather is from an animal ?
Why would an ethical decision to minimize exploitation/harm to animals change what flavors and textures people like? That seems odd to me.
Even people who are allergic to foods, or have medical conditions limiting their eating them, still have tastes for those foods . . . and it seems to me that if a food made me, personally, sick, that would cause a much greater likelihood of associating distaste/disgust with the food in question, than would an abstract ethical decision to omit eating that food. There are sugar-free candies for diabetics, because diabetics still enjoy candy. Animal-free faux meats are pretty much the same kind of concept.
The standard, strict definition of vegan does include not wearing animal skin/fiber, not using self-care products (soaps, etc.) with animal ingredients, sometimes to the extent of avoiding things like honey because of the exploitation of bees, and more.
Someone who eats only plants, for whatever reason (usually ethical, not necessarily animal harm/exploitation), but doesn't do those things would be more precisely called a fully plant-based eater, or perhaps (older terminology) a strict vegetarian.
P.S. I'm not vegan.7 -
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Huh? I don't understand.
I guess someone might eat 2-3 servings of burger per day, but I think that would be unusual for a plant-based eater.
And 3g x 3 servings is 9g of fiber . . . my (roughly) 1 cup of black beans at last night's dinner had around 15g fiber all by itself, in a day that had only 36g total (low, for me). Why would 9g be "way too much"?
I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about what you're trying to say.5 -
or even 9g if someone is eating 3 servings of this?1 -
Huh? I don't understand.
I guess someone might eat 2-3 servings of burger per day, but I think that would be unusual for a plant-based eater.
And 3g x 3 servings is 9g of fiber . . . my (roughly) 1 cup of black beans at last night's dinner had around 15g fiber all by itself, in a day that had only 36g total (low, for me). Why would 9g be "way too much"?
I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about what you're trying to say.
Maybe the poster forgot we were talking about fiber and is saying 3 g of carbs is too much?
Because saying 3 g of fiber is too much is bizarre -- personally, I try to get around 50 g per day, although I don't always (depends on my bean consumption, usually, as my veg and fruit and nut/seed consumption is pretty consistent most days.)
Anyway, I agree with those who say it's odd to assume one would consume 2-3 servings of the product -- personally I don't consume 2-3 servings of ground beef, so why would I consume 2-3 servings of fake beef (hypothetically)?3 -
gearhead426hemi wrote: »As a small farmer that grows or raises the majority of what my family consumes I HATE getting advise from people who don't grow or raise anything. I have found that the loudest most annoying people who preach about not eating meat and only eating organic don't grow anything they consume. I totally support people to eat whatever they want and live the lifestyle that makes you feel the best physically and emotionally. When it comes to food I am a firm believer that if you aren't growing or raising it yourself you shouldn't be on your soap box lecturing others.
I have a close friend that chose to go vegetarian after working as a butcher for years. He turned his entire small backyard into a garden. He lives in Colorado and his yard is 20 feet by 20 feet and he grows what he can with the changing seasons. He even has a small enclosed greenhouse to grow small fruit trees on his back porch. He has been promoting his neighbors to grow more even if they don't choose to go full vegan or vegetarian. He gives his neighbors seeds from his crops and helps them set up irrigation systems and teaches them about soil PH and other gardening tips.
If you want to sway people one way or the other lead by example.
"You catch more bees with honey than vinegar"
Yeah when 7% of the US adult population thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows there is probably a need for some more education on what we eat before opening mouths.
https://texashillcountry.com/chocolate-milk-brown-cows/4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »gearhead426hemi wrote: »As a small farmer that grows or raises the majority of what my family consumes I HATE getting advise from people who don't grow or raise anything. I have found that the loudest most annoying people who preach about not eating meat and only eating organic don't grow anything they consume. I totally support people to eat whatever they want and live the lifestyle that makes you feel the best physically and emotionally. When it comes to food I am a firm believer that if you aren't growing or raising it yourself you shouldn't be on your soap box lecturing others.
I have a close friend that chose to go vegetarian after working as a butcher for years. He turned his entire small backyard into a garden. He lives in Colorado and his yard is 20 feet by 20 feet and he grows what he can with the changing seasons. He even has a small enclosed greenhouse to grow small fruit trees on his back porch. He has been promoting his neighbors to grow more even if they don't choose to go full vegan or vegetarian. He gives his neighbors seeds from his crops and helps them set up irrigation systems and teaches them about soil PH and other gardening tips.
If you want to sway people one way or the other lead by example.
"You catch more bees with honey than vinegar"
Yeah when 7% of the US adult population thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows there is probably a need for some more education on what we eat before opening mouths.
https://texashillcountry.com/chocolate-milk-brown-cows/
That only proves that a good percentage of the population is stupid. I'm not saying that more education is a bad thing, but let's face it, there are always going to be uneducated people regardless of the topic. Some people have zero interest in learning.3 -
Huh? I don't understand.
I guess someone might eat 2-3 servings of burger per day, but I think that would be unusual for a plant-based eater.
And 3g x 3 servings is 9g of fiber . . . my (roughly) 1 cup of black beans at last night's dinner had around 15g fiber all by itself, in a day that had only 36g total (low, for me). Why would 9g be "way too much"?
I feel like I'm misunderstanding something about what you're trying to say.
Maybe the poster forgot we were talking about fiber and is saying 3 g of carbs is too much?
Because saying 3 g of fiber is too much is bizarre -- personally, I try to get around 50 g per day, although I don't always (depends on my bean consumption, usually, as my veg and fruit and nut/seed consumption is pretty consistent most days.)
Anyway, I agree with those who say it's odd to assume one would consume 2-3 servings of the product -- personally I don't consume 2-3 servings of ground beef, so why would I consume 2-3 servings of fake beef (hypothetically)?
I eat a low-ish fiber diet (top out at 15-20 g max per day, depending on symptoms) and don't see a problem with the 3g in the Beyond Meat. I can't imagine eating 2-3 servings of any kind of ground meat/faux meat in one sitting, though.1 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
To be clear, the food being "replaced" by the Impossible Whopper is the regular Whopper. Is that argument that someone is losing out on a nutritious staple food if they make that swap?3 -
Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »Nope
Care to share what your specific concern is?
Sure. The 21 reasons in the ingredient list
You avoid beet juice?
I hate beet with a passion so yes, I do avoid it, but I'm more worried about all the vegetable seed oils, starches and sugars. Also, anything with more than 5 ingredients is a frankenfood. Have you ever used 21 ingredients in a recipe?
Soups are frankenfood.
Baked goods are frankenfood.
Salsa is frankenfood.
Pasta sauce is frankenfood.
Everything Binging With Babish makes is frankenfood.9 -
Sylphadora wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »Nope
Care to share what your specific concern is?
Sure. The 21 reasons in the ingredient list
You avoid beet juice?
I hate beet with a passion so yes, I do avoid it, but I'm more worried about all the vegetable seed oils, starches and sugars. Also, anything with more than 5 ingredients is a frankenfood. Have you ever used 21 ingredients in a recipe?
Yeap. Many times.
And have you ever used methylcellulose, succinic acid, maltodextrin or any of the other chemical-sounding ingredients in a recipe? I don't buy anything with ingredients my grandmother wouldn't recognize. I'm strongly anti-processed food. The fact that it's processed vegan food doesn't make it any healthier. It still seems that it came out of a lab instead of a kitchen
My grandmother calls bell peppers "mangos."
Seems silly to judge the quality of a food's ingredients list based on what someone born before WWII can recognize.9
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