Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
Options
Replies
-
Carlos_421 wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Sylphadora wrote: »Nope
Care to share what your specific concern is?
Sure. The 21 reasons in the ingredient list
You avoid beet juice?
I hate beet with a passion so yes, I do avoid it, but I'm more worried about all the vegetable seed oils, starches and sugars. Also, anything with more than 5 ingredients is a frankenfood. Have you ever used 21 ingredients in a recipe?
Yeap. Many times.
And have you ever used methylcellulose, succinic acid, maltodextrin or any of the other chemical-sounding ingredients in a recipe? I don't buy anything with ingredients my grandmother wouldn't recognize. I'm strongly anti-processed food. The fact that it's processed vegan food doesn't make it any healthier. It still seems that it came out of a lab instead of a kitchen
My grandmother calls bell peppers "mangos."
Seems silly to judge the quality of a food's ingredients list based on what someone born before WWII can recognize.
My grandmother was a chemist (rare for a woman at that time).
I'm guessing she would have recognized every ingredient on that list.
That's why silly rules are silly (i.e. don't eat ingredients you can't pronounce)8 -
1 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
There are lots of ingredients that are perfectly safe for human consumption, but are also used in animal food or even in inedible products.
It's classic blogosphere fear mongering to suggest you shouldn't consume an ingredient because it's sometimes used in a product you wouldn't consume.
Water is the first ingredient in many toxic household cleaners, for example the Soft Scrub I just used to clean my sink. Do you really want to drink something that makes up the majority of Soft Scrub?
ETA: And considering the movement toward all-natural, whole food pet foods, not to mention the homemade pet food trend, I'd hazard a guess that many pet owners are buying a pet food because it has the kind of ingredients they would eat. The pet food market ain't what it used to be
11 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
Almost all dog foods contain a good portion of meat.5 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.
So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".
It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.
I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.
Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."1 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
Well let's take a look at the ingredient list from a not especially high quality US dog food. Pedigree dry beef and lamb flavor:- Ground whole corn: so I guess no polenta/grits for you?
- Meat and bone meal: while I personally have no desire to include bonemeal in my hamburger, chicken paitan ramen broth involves grinding the bones into the broth.
- Animal fat: people claim lard makes the best pie crusts all the time, next.
- Soybean meal: soy is a staple food product in plenty of places and I wouldn't be shocked if the soy in the dog food is coming from the remnants of soy milk production.
- Natural flavoring: your orange juice probably has this as well
- Chicken by product meal - eat more offal, if you like it that is. People do it all the time.
- Dried plain beet pulp - beets...
- Salt, potassium chloride - so losalt
- Brewers rice - this is basically rice that had a very hard time down the production line and got broken into very small pieces
- Ground whole grain wheat - if you don't like whole grain wheat that's on you, but it makes for good food (though sometimes hard to work with as the only flour in a recipe)
8 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Jossy_star wrote: »I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great
Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.
Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.1 -
I'm not a fan of fake anything.
2 -
This pet food and human food has mostly same ingredients, shock, horror! is really silly scare mongering
I'm sure meat burgers have even more same ingredients as dog food than veggie burgers do - because you know, dogs eat meat.
And rice and cereal and other fillers in canned food
Would in fact be really weird if there was not many common ingredients.8 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Jossy_star wrote: »I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great
Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.
Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.
I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.
So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".
It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.
I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.
Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."
I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.
So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".
It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.
I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.
Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."
I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?
To be fair, I kinda agree. I don't think most of the disagreers here have anything to do with big cattle. They may have been socially conditioned by big cattle (no idea, I don't live in the US), but it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction because their choice feels superior and/or they feel their choices are being challenged. People don't like societal shifts in general and feel pride in their established beliefs and choices. Choice supportive bias is a very prevalent cognitive bias that we all have, so it tends to have an even larger effect with choices that we identify as part of our identity because of it having certain morality undertones ("I'm a meat eater and my choice is superior and not immoral, therefore the alternative choice must be inferior in some way"). Not to mention that people are generally wary of new things and are slow to accept them.7 -
They look gross. Not much of a meat eater here, but if I wanted meat why would I eat something fake? Pretend meat,lol. And in my experience most fake stuff has alot of sodium, I wouldn't know about this product, as I walked past it in the store, like I said, it looked gross.
Because I'm a vegetarian and don't want to kill an animal?
I had no idea that there's vegan's out there who are craving meat, interesting. Does that mean you don't use any leather products, as leather is from an animal ?
Errr... yes?
That's kind of how vegetarianism works?
(And it is definitely how veganism works. The two are different things, by the way.)1 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
The number one ingredient in the cat food I buy is "pig entrails". Number 2 is salmon.3 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
Well let's take a look at the ingredient list from a not especially high quality US dog food. Pedigree dry beef and lamb flavor:- Ground whole corn: so I guess no polenta/grits for you?
- Meat and bone meal: while I personally have no desire to include bonemeal in my hamburger, chicken paitan ramen broth involves grinding the bones into the broth.
- Animal fat: people claim lard makes the best pie crusts all the time, next.
- Soybean meal: soy is a staple food product in plenty of places and I wouldn't be shocked if the soy in the dog food is coming from the remnants of soy milk production.
- Natural flavoring: your orange juice probably has this as well
- Chicken by product meal - eat more offal, if you like it that is. People do it all the time.
- Dried plain beet pulp - beets...
- Salt, potassium chloride - so losalt
- Brewers rice - this is basically rice that had a very hard time down the production line and got broken into very small pieces
- Ground whole grain wheat - if you don't like whole grain wheat that's on you, but it makes for good food (though sometimes hard to work with as the only flour in a recipe)
Thanks for this. I was going to do it, but you saved me. Amusingly, the only ingredients your list shares with the list I went through of the BeyondBeef is the natural flavors, the beets, and the salt and potassium chloride.1 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
Chicken is also a common dog food ingredient but you don't see me trying to spread fear about Popeye's on that basis.7 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
I wanted to see who this professor is, and Snopes beat us to dealing with this quote"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/impossible-burgers-dogfood/
"What's True
Impossible and Beyond Meat Burgers share some ingredients with at least one brand of vegan, grain-free dog food selected for the comparison.
What's False
The purported similarity between the three ingredient lists is overstated."
The researcher in question is an animal scientist, for whatever that is worth :drinker:6 -
rodnichols69 wrote: »
I wanted to see who this professor is, and Snopes beat us to dealing with this quote"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/impossible-burgers-dogfood/
"What's True
Impossible and Beyond Meat Burgers share some ingredients with at least one brand of vegan, grain-free dog food selected for the comparison.
What's False
The purported similarity between the three ingredient lists is overstated."
The researcher in question is an animal scientist, for whatever that is worth :drinker:
I'm embarrassed for people when they fall for stuff like this.
I'm not someone who is paranoid about "big meat," but it's undeniable that there are industry forces who are worried about the future of meat substitutes (as well as dairy substitutes). You can see it in the attempts to scare the overly credulous with stuff like this and you can see it in the legislative attempts to restrict the use of the words "meat," "milk," and "butter."5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Jossy_star wrote: »I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great
Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.
Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.
I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.
Wasn't saying anyone should be denied anything.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.
It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.
If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.
To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.
You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.
So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".
It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.
I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.
Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."
I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?
To be fair, I kinda agree. I don't think most of the disagreers here have anything to do with big cattle. They may have been socially conditioned by big cattle (no idea, I don't live in the US), but it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction because their choice feels superior and/or they feel their choices are being challenged. People don't like societal shifts in general and feel pride in their established beliefs and choices. Choice supportive bias is a very prevalent cognitive bias that we all have, so it tends to have an even larger effect with choices that we identify as part of our identity because of it having certain morality undertones ("I'm a meat eater and my choice is superior and not immoral, therefore the alternative choice must be inferior in some way"). Not to mention that people are generally wary of new things and are slow to accept them.
This and I also don't see a difference between the "Ah! Fake meat is processed!!" seen here and any other "Ah!! Processed food is bad for you!!" that we see in so many other threads.
Sure, it was mentioned upthread that we don't see these concerns voiced about protein powder (despite it's being processed) but we see that pointed out in almost every processed/clean foods thread.
The fact that protein powder doesn't get the normal amount of grief for being processed is it's own phenomenon and I think is probably largely due to the fact that it is associated with fitness.
People in general perceive protein powder as a fitness/health/weight loss aid (as misguided as that may be).
Veggie burgers, convenience foods, etc. don't generally have that same perception (although some people do wrongly assume plant based in inherently healthier) and thus don't enjoy the same lack of critique.
People throw stones at "processed food" for the same reasons that they throw them at fast food, convenience foods, sugar, GMOs, etc..
To claim that veggie burgers only catch the same stones (on a site like MFP nonetheless) because hayseed Trumpers want us to buy beef is a pretty silly conspiracy theory.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions