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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat

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Replies

  • katarina005
    katarina005 Posts: 259 Member
    I haven't tried it because it has a lot of fat in it at least ones I've looked at. I consume mock meats but I find I get a lot of my protein from natural sources (edamame, etc) as long as you plan it out.

    If I have "fake meat" - I like Boca veggie burgers because it's more lean and I think it's more "meaty" in taste. Not that I desire that, but the juiciness is desirable.

    I don't like Gardein much. I eat morningstar and Boca mostly and they can be cheaper. Try making your own too, it's easier than you think!

    To each his own, mock meats or no.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    3kygdq15niey.jpg

    I wanted to see who this professor is, and Snopes beat us to dealing with this quote"

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/impossible-burgers-dogfood/

    "What's True
    Impossible and Beyond Meat Burgers share some ingredients with at least one brand of vegan, grain-free dog food selected for the comparison.

    What's False
    The purported similarity between the three ingredient lists is overstated."

    The researcher in question is an animal scientist, for whatever that is worth :drinker:

    Also I wouldn't be shocked if what he said was taken out of context.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    3kygdq15niey.jpg

    I wanted to see who this professor is, and Snopes beat us to dealing with this quote"

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/impossible-burgers-dogfood/

    "What's True
    Impossible and Beyond Meat Burgers share some ingredients with at least one brand of vegan, grain-free dog food selected for the comparison.

    What's False
    The purported similarity between the three ingredient lists is overstated."

    The researcher in question is an animal scientist, for whatever that is worth :drinker:

    Also I wouldn't be shocked if what he said was taken out of context.

    In this particular case, I think it was in context. He tweeted that Impossible and Beyond Meat burgers were "indistinguishable from dog food."
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,899 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    This and I also don't see a difference between the "Ah! Fake meat is processed!!" seen here and any other "Ah!! Processed food is bad for you!!" that we see in so many other threads.

    Sure, it was mentioned upthread that we don't see these concerns voiced about protein powder (despite it's being processed) but we see that pointed out in almost every processed/clean foods thread.

    The fact that protein powder doesn't get the normal amount of grief for being processed is it's own phenomenon and I think is probably largely due to the fact that it is associated with fitness.
    People in general perceive protein powder as a fitness/health/weight loss aid (as misguided as that may be).
    Veggie burgers, convenience foods, etc. don't generally have that same perception (although some people do wrongly assume plant based in inherently healthier) and thus don't enjoy the same lack of critique.

    People throw stones at "processed food" for the same reasons that they throw them at fast food, convenience foods, sugar, GMOs, etc.. To claim that veggie burgers only catch the same stones (on a site like MFP nonetheless) because hayseed Trumpers want us to buy beef is a pretty silly conspiracy theory.

    I am not promoting any conspiracy theory, but I do see more flack here, even when the discussion is specifically focused on something like the Impossible Whopper vs a Whopper or the Beyond Burger at a local burger joint vs. their regular burger.
  • Sand_TIger
    Sand_TIger Posts: 1,070 Member
    edited February 2020
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    I am not promoting any conspiracy theory, but I do see more flack here, even when the discussion is specifically focused on something like the Impossible Whopper vs a Whopper or the Beyond Burger at a local burger joint vs. their regular burger.

    I would suspect that the additional flak is caused more by people's familiarity with/affection for certain favorite foods, which can be compounded by clever advertising and fond memories associated with said foods. Some on both sides (in the meat eater, fast food camp as well as in the non-meat eater camp) make food based decisions based on emotion. Emotionally based thinking is going to cause more knee-jerk reactions as well as strongly held and strongly stated positions, so probably cause more heated discussion. As we all know, it just takes a few people to change the whole tone of a conversation.

    That said, while I could see where large cattle raising corporations would want to keep their portion of the market share, I can also see where large agricultural companies would also see a great opportunity for profit using plant based foods to get edge into the meat market while charging a premium. It's interesting to watch.

    Finally, on a personal note, I regularly eat the same things that are in my cat's food. Chicken, turkey, salmon, tuna, shrimp, certain vegetables, sometimes legumes, rice, certain supplements, et cetera. Then again it's not quite a fair comparison because I feed him The Good Stuff.

    Regarding the original question, though, I have eaten meat substitute when I've been at friends' houses, and didn't mind it. One mushroom based brand was particularly tasty in gravy. I think it's kind of cool how they can make beef patties that look real because of the use of things like beet juice, I'd probably eat them if offered them, but find meat easier to find/work with/cheaper so I stick with that. If I had access to natural, grass fed, better treated meat I'd use that by preference.
  • BuddhaBunnyFTW
    BuddhaBunnyFTW Posts: 157 Member
    Processed food is unhealthy no matter the package it comes in
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    This and I also don't see a difference between the "Ah! Fake meat is processed!!" seen here and any other "Ah!! Processed food is bad for you!!" that we see in so many other threads.

    Sure, it was mentioned upthread that we don't see these concerns voiced about protein powder (despite it's being processed) but we see that pointed out in almost every processed/clean foods thread.

    The fact that protein powder doesn't get the normal amount of grief for being processed is it's own phenomenon and I think is probably largely due to the fact that it is associated with fitness.
    People in general perceive protein powder as a fitness/health/weight loss aid (as misguided as that may be).
    Veggie burgers, convenience foods, etc. don't generally have that same perception (although some people do wrongly assume plant based in inherently healthier) and thus don't enjoy the same lack of critique.

    People throw stones at "processed food" for the same reasons that they throw them at fast food, convenience foods, sugar, GMOs, etc.. To claim that veggie burgers only catch the same stones (on a site like MFP nonetheless) because hayseed Trumpers want us to buy beef is a pretty silly conspiracy theory.

    I am not promoting any conspiracy theory, but I do see more flack here, even when the discussion is specifically focused on something like the Impossible Whopper vs a Whopper or the Beyond Burger at a local burger joint vs. their regular burger.

    I definitely don't think you're promoting a conspiracy theory (I was referring to the comments made about "small government, conservative states" being out to get meat replacements).

    I guess I just haven't noticed any more flack myself.
    But if it's there I would imagine it belongs more to what amusedmonkey spoke of, people defending what they already eat/like/prefer.
    The same way I've heard people who like regular Coke say "I don't drink Diet because it's full of chemicals," people who like beef probably feel like they need to defend themselves from a perceived message that veggie burgers are allegedly superior for health and/or moral reasons.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,899 Member
    edited February 2020
    Processed food is unhealthy no matter the package it comes in

    How are you defining processed? A great deal of nutrient-dense food is processed.

    Also, we wouldn't really have fruits and veg many places (including where I live) right now but for processing and related things (like the ability to transport them long distances).
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,950 Member
    edited February 2020
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    After41 wrote: »
    pg5qw8zt169w.jpg

    Oh my. I don't want any of those ingredients. Well..water and salt for those pedantics.

    It's okay to not want something. You don't have to eat the burger, It's such a niche item anyway. I just hope this fixation on ingredients in general (not the ingredients in this specific burger) is not causing anxiety around food. I personally want every single one of these ingredients because each one serves a purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be there. From nutritional profile to taste to color to texture to storage safely. I'll take it.

    If it makes you feel any better, most people seem to only really care about these type of ingredients when they are in a meat replacement.

    To be fair, a lot of the concern is because animal foods are nutritious, staple foods. When you replace them with ultra processed/novel foods there's good reason for caution. When you see how much money is being spent to create this market it's even more concerning.

    You accidentally hit on it, but not for the reason that you think. The reason why meat replacements have such a strong negative following against them is because the farmer and meat producer industries are extremely influential in America. A lot of jobs and economic activity in certain states revolve around these industries. And they are terrified of meat replacements because they know that while they are not quite there yet in terms of being ready for wide spread adoption (price point and lack of nutritional improvement being some limiters so far), they also know it's only a matter of time. How far are we from a beyond/impossible type meat replacement that tastes and cooks like meat but has a fraction of the fat and is cheaper than meat? I'd imagine it's single digit years until that happens.

    So that's why they are waging both a PR and regulation war against meat replacements. It's why you see in all these "small government, conservative states", the ones that think clean water regulation is the devil, they are passing new laws to ban the term "veggie burger".

    It's not because they are scared that plant based meat replacements are bad, it's because they are scared that they are good.

    I'm pretty sure "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.

    Also, the ingredients in meat replacements are grown by farmers, largely in "small government, conservative states."


    I don't know whether that's touching naivete about motives or a lack of understanding about how the Internet can and is used. Or are you just questioning whether they send people or bots?

    To be fair, I kinda agree. I don't think most of the disagreers here have anything to do with big cattle. They may have been socially conditioned by big cattle (no idea, I don't live in the US), but it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction because their choice feels superior and/or they feel their choices are being challenged. People don't like societal shifts in general and feel pride in their established beliefs and choices. Choice supportive bias is a very prevalent cognitive bias that we all have, so it tends to have an even larger effect with choices that we identify as part of our identity because of it having certain morality undertones ("I'm a meat eater and my choice is superior and not immoral, therefore the alternative choice must be inferior in some way"). Not to mention that people are generally wary of new things and are slow to accept them.

    While I agree that some, probably most, people defending their meat-eating by disparaging meat alternatives are just circling the wagons on what they're used to and defending the morality of their choices, I was challenging the idea that one particular industry is not following what is today a common business practice.

    It is possible both for

    (1)
    "big cattle" isn't sending people to these forums to hate on veggie burgers.

    to be false (as it would take only two individuals associated with, connected to, or hired by the cattle industry for it to be true) and

    (2)
    I don't think most of the disagreers here have anything to do with big cattle

    to be a correct belief (as it would only take one more than half of the disagreers to not have anything to do with big cattle).

    Companies of all kinds pay people to influence discussions in social media. It's not remotely an unusual thing. When you see first-time posts from someone touting a supplement, a named diet that has books and other products associated with it, directing you to a specific website, do you really think none of them are doing so for a financial motive? Some bloggers are paid (in money or in goods) to say positive things about specific products. Pretty much any company of a decent size or sophistication has social media specialists in their communications departments. But nobody in the beef industry tries to influence public opinion in forums where meat alternatives are discussed?


    ETA
    Since you're not in the U.S., perhaps you are unaware that the cattle industry's tactics in the U.S. have included getting laws passed to prevent labeling that in any way suggests that meat alternatives are in fact "meat" alternatives, getting laws passed people from saying anything bad about beef, and suing people for saying anything that suggests there might be health advantages for trading some saturated fat animal products for unsaturated fat plant protein products. I'm not seeing them getting queasy over the idea of paying for some social media influencing.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,950 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    3kygdq15niey.jpg

    The number one ingredient in the cat food I buy is "pig entrails". Number 2 is salmon.

    Lots of folks consider pig entrails comfort food.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,950 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.

    I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.

    Wasn't saying anyone should be denied anything.
    if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home

    (Yes, I know you weren't the one who said it, but you jumped in to explain what they must have meant.)
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.

    I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.

    Wasn't saying anyone should be denied anything.
    if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home

    (Yes, I know you weren't the one who said it, but you jumped in to explain what they must have meant.)

    She recommended that people try making their own.
    Where did she or I say that veggie burgers should ONLY be made at home?
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    edited February 2020
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Fairly certain she's saying she prefers homemade veggie burgers over store bought.

    I prefer the taste of homemade food for about 90% of the things I might be able to buy at a fast food place, but I don't see why people who prefer a non-meat option should be denied the convenience of eating when they're away from home, pressed for time, meeting friends for a quick meal, etc., etc.

    Wasn't saying anyone should be denied anything.
    if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home

    (Yes, I know you weren't the one who said it, but you jumped in to explain what they must have meant.)

    She recommended that people try making their own.
    Where did she or I say that veggie burgers should ONLY be made at home?

    Lynn wasn't the only one, as that was my take from her comment as well, given the context.

    Remember the discussion was about whether one could eat fake meats like BeyondBeef healthfully, as well as whether it was a reasonable alternative for a Whopper, etc., and the poster jumped in to say that she would prefer beef, but: "..if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home..'

    So in the context it seemed that she was saying the only acceptable "vegan meat" was one made at home (so homemade seitan?), and that the BeyondBeef or ImpossibleWhopper were not acceptable alternatives, instead (again) "if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home."

    I have lost track of the conversation, so I don't think that poster was paid by anyone or whatever, but I do think she was basically saying any meat is great, but the only vegan alternative that is at all meat like that would be okay is some homemade version (and again it's not clear what that's limited to? A black bean burger, homemade seitan (or is wheat gluten bad), what?).

    At the least it's a "processed = bad, homemade = always the one best option" kind of comment that I think you'd usually be disagreeing with, isn't it?

    I agree on all points. The implication that homemade is inherently better for you was there and, you're right, I 100% disagree with that.

    However, I was defending the poster from this severe extrapolation:
    Jossy_star wrote: »
    I am a meat lover and nothing can replace real meat in my personal opinion but if you want a vegan meat than try cooking one at home... i found lots of easy recipes and it turned out great

    Can you clarify? Because it sounds as though you're suggesting that non-vegans shouldn't have to suffer the disgusting sight of people eating plant-based "meat" in public.

    Of course, Lynn went from me saying that I don't think Jossy is claiming she shouldn't have to see other people eat meatless burgers in public to asking me "why should anyone be denied anything" which, of course, I don't think they should. And she knows that.