Keto
Replies
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
You seemed to gloss over the AND CALORIES part.xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.
Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.
by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.
there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.
of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.
Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?
I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.
Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.
i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.
i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.
to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.
500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.
To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.
You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?
i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.
foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.
This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.
The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).
I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).
I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.
i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.
however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.
i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:
Calories: 205
Protein: About 27 grams
Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
Zinc: 68% of the DV
Selenium: 36% of the DV
now compare that to a serving of bread.
She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.
Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.
Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.
if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.
a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.
Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6
Your logic is completely faulty. Food choices are not a this or that proposition. It is the context of an overall diet that determines overall health. Additionally, your comment about a lot of carbs becoming fat is just plain erroneous. First, if eating an energy balanced diet, how would carbs turn to fat.?
Secondly, de novo lipogenesis, the process by which carbs would convert to fat, is a metabolically expensive and non preferred pathway for fat storage and only happens if there is an excess of carbs and calories. The most likely macro-nutrient to be stored as fat is...fat.
So, no, a lot of carbs don't become fat. The concepts of logic, context and physiology seem to be foreign to you.
food comparisons are done individually, and there are far better things than bread, that are more filling.
you said it, an excess of carbs becomes fats. thank you, doctor.
Worded another way......an excess of fats and calories are stored as fat, OR an excess of proteins and calories are stored as fat too. Any way you slice it
fat stores require excess calories.
and some fats store better than others. high carb diets are associated with high levels of triglycerides, and build up of plaque in arteries.
carbs are also addictive. we are now in the midst of the biggest obesity and diabetes epidemic in the history of the human race, thanks to the shift to high consumption of carbohydrates in diets. the obesity rate in adults is @40% by some estimates.
decreasing carbs lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and which leads to weight loss.
Really? I have never heard of people being addicted to cauliflower or spinach. Foods people crave are typically high in carbs AND saturated fats. A mixture of these two taste bloody good. Coincidence?
spinach and cauliflower are high carb and processed like bread? ok.2 -
pitbullpuppy wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »pitbullpuppy wrote: »I might be mistaken, but @xxxpopeyexxx I believe everyone is simply trying to say that you do not NEED keto/deprivation to lose weight. There are many different ways to lose weight, but as stated early on, it all comes down to a matter of calories in, calories out and one does NOT necessarily need a perfect nutritional balance just to lose weight (that is, you can drop massive weight on a calorie restrictive diet of ice cream; your general well-being is another topic). Your posts come off with a tone of, "it can only be done the way that worked for me." You may not like bread or find it to be a valuable nutritional resource and that is fine, but it is wholly irresponsible for you to promote the message of you cannot do keto or lose weight if you eat bread because it is simply untrue. Someone might lurk in this thread, adore bread, and say "forget dieting" under the assumption that they MUST give up bread to lose weight. & It is also a matter of fact that you can, and people do, successfully keto diet while incorporating bread into their diet.
There are many different ways to lose weight
and i never said otherwise. i simply said there are far more nutritious choices than bread, and it's not compatible with a keto diet. i'll stand by that.
According to Time Magazine bugs are more nutritious than steak, what's your point? I'm sorry that you don't understand keto, but bread is actually compatible with it.
Source: https://time.com/5505442/healthy-protein-plant-meat/
exactly why you quit keto, right, because you could eat lots of carbs?1 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
You seemed to gloss over the AND CALORIES part.xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.
Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.
by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.
there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.
of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.
Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?
I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.
Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.
i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.
i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.
to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.
500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.
To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.
You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?
i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.
foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.
This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.
The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).
I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).
I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.
i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.
however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.
i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:
Calories: 205
Protein: About 27 grams
Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
Zinc: 68% of the DV
Selenium: 36% of the DV
now compare that to a serving of bread.
She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.
Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.
Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.
if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.
a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.
Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6
Your logic is completely faulty. Food choices are not a this or that proposition. It is the context of an overall diet that determines overall health. Additionally, your comment about a lot of carbs becoming fat is just plain erroneous. First, if eating an energy balanced diet, how would carbs turn to fat.?
Secondly, de novo lipogenesis, the process by which carbs would convert to fat, is a metabolically expensive and non preferred pathway for fat storage and only happens if there is an excess of carbs and calories. The most likely macro-nutrient to be stored as fat is...fat.
So, no, a lot of carbs don't become fat. The concepts of logic, context and physiology seem to be foreign to you.
food comparisons are done individually, and there are far better things than bread, that are more filling.
you said it, an excess of carbs becomes fats. thank you, doctor.
Worded another way......an excess of fats and calories are stored as fat, OR an excess of proteins and calories are stored as fat too. Any way you slice it fat stores require excess calories.
and some fats store better than others. high carb diets are associated with high levels of triglycerides, and build up of plaque in arteries.
carbs are also addictive. we are now in the midst of the biggest obesity and diabetes epidemic in the history of the human race, thanks to the shift to high consumption of carbohydrates in diets. the obesity rate in adults is @40% by some estimates.
decreasing carbs lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and which leads to weight loss.
Really? I have never heard of people being addicted to cauliflower or spinach. Foods people crave are typically high in carbs AND saturated fats. A mixture of these two taste bloody good. Coincidence?
spinach and cauliflower are high carb and processed like bread? ok.
Except you said carbs are addictive without specification of what types of carbs. I do notice the classical strawmans argument where you ignored the rest of my post. Would that be because foods high in processed carbs are typically also high in saturated fat?11 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
You seemed to gloss over the AND CALORIES part.xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.
Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.
by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.
there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.
of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.
Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?
I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.
Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.
i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.
i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.
to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.
500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.
To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.
You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?
i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.
foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.
This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.
The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).
I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).
I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.
i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.
however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.
i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:
Calories: 205
Protein: About 27 grams
Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
Zinc: 68% of the DV
Selenium: 36% of the DV
now compare that to a serving of bread.
She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.
Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.
Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.
if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.
a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.
Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6
Your logic is completely faulty. Food choices are not a this or that proposition. It is the context of an overall diet that determines overall health. Additionally, your comment about a lot of carbs becoming fat is just plain erroneous. First, if eating an energy balanced diet, how would carbs turn to fat.?
Secondly, de novo lipogenesis, the process by which carbs would convert to fat, is a metabolically expensive and non preferred pathway for fat storage and only happens if there is an excess of carbs and calories. The most likely macro-nutrient to be stored as fat is...fat.
So, no, a lot of carbs don't become fat. The concepts of logic, context and physiology seem to be foreign to you.
food comparisons are done individually, and there are far better things than bread, that are more filling.
you said it, an excess of carbs becomes fats. thank you, doctor.
Worded another way......an excess of fats and calories are stored as fat, OR an excess of proteins and calories are stored as fat too. Any way you slice it fat stores require excess calories.
and some fats store better than others. high carb diets are associated with high levels of triglycerides, and build up of plaque in arteries.
carbs are also addictive. we are now in the midst of the biggest obesity and diabetes epidemic in the history of the human race, thanks to the shift to high consumption of carbohydrates in diets. the obesity rate in adults is @40% by some estimates.
decreasing carbs lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and which leads to weight loss.
Would love to hear more about how this works as I'm currently struggling to not lose weight by eating at an insane maintenance range. So in theory it should work the other way to stop losing (and perhaps gain) all I have to do is just have to keep spiking insulin? Some Skittles every few hours should do it? Better pass that info on to the people who struggle to gain in the Gaining section.13 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I honestly don't understand why the disregard for personal desires and enjoyment are so widespread in the weight loss community. Physical nutritional needs are put on a pedestal but mental, social, and emotional needs are regarded as sins as if you aren't dieting correctly unless you care about nothing but nutrition. We're humans, not meat machines, and we have needs that go beyond fuel and nutrients.
When someone has a car and enjoys listening to music, do we shame them into selling their sound system to put more fuel into an already full tank? Obviously fuel is important, but once that's taken care of, what's wrong with listening to some music? Is adding more fuel to an overflowing tank morally superior?
I was at a friend's birthday the other day. I enjoyed the social ritual of eating cake together. I needed to socially connect and share an eating ritual of celebration, I didn't need to eat half a cup of spinach. I did the right thing for my body and mind by choosing to eat cake.
I tend to tank on a long run if I don't get some decent carb energy before the run. White bread, bananas, or honey oatmeal are usually my fuel of choice.
For breakfast today I had a sandwich. It tasted good and was very filling. It had sourdough rye bread, one of my favorite types of bread. I was happy and satisfied for reasonable calories without feeling like I was making a sacrifice. The rest of my meals had various foods with various nutrients (lots of vegetables, as usual), and I ended the day with a snack pack of Oreos. Bread was the right thing to eat because it fulfilled the purpose of keeping me physically full and mentally satisfied. Oreos were the right thing to eat because I had calories for them and they made me happy. Being happy makes eating a nutritious and calorie appropriate diet sustainable and aids me in my goal of maintaining my weight.
Different foods serve different main purposes. Nutrition is just one part of the puzzle.
sounds like a good idea for a popular new diet. the 'if it feels good, do it diet.'
Yep, that is how I've dropped 108lbs. It's felt great getting more protein, iron, and fiber and at least 50% carbs daily, working in snacks and small desserts, and basically feeling better about myself and my food choices than I have in years of deprivation diets.i play sports, and simply have a smoothie in the morning, and am good until the afternoon. don't want a bunch of bulky, partially digested food in my gut before i go play sports.
the trick to a healthy diet is to learn to enjoy the healthy foods more than the junk foods.
I walk, strength train, and will be running my 3rd 5K this summer. Hoping to beat last year's time of 27:07 (which was an improvement over my first finish time of 28:17). I love healthy foods. And I love indulgences too. I just indulge in moderation.
by all means enjoy your indulgences, that doesn't make them a good source of nutrition, or anything more than a psychological need. and it's probably more of a reason you became overweight to begin with.
Mostly it was emotional eating, stress eating, being an introvert who found out early that you weren't expected to make conversation if you were stuffing your face (which ties in with the stress eating), and getting locked into a whole 'eat-feel guilty-eat more to numb the guilt-feel guiltier-eat more' down spiral. Once I gave myself permission to enjoy a controlled indulgence, I lost the sides of guilt and self-loathing that had always been included free of charge with each extra helping, etc.
And what exactly is wrong with meeting a psychological need? Is mental health somehow less worthy of attention than physical?
if you can keep to a limited amount, fine, there are probably bigger things in life to worry about, but i'm not seeing how satisfying a craving of processed sugar, is healthy mentally or physically. why not break the addiction and find and/or learn to indulge in healthy foods?
The idea that liking something sweet means I must be addicted to sugar is an interesting leap. Would you recommend a keto-er break a butter addiction? It's also a gross generalization to assume that all desserts are by definition unhealthy. EDIT: Or that I don't already indulge in healthy food.
6 -
In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.11 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
You seemed to gloss over the AND CALORIES part.xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.
Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.
by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.
there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.
of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.
Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?
I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.
Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.
i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.
i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.
to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.
500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.
To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.
You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?
i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.
foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.
This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.
The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).
I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).
I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.
i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.
however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.
i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:
Calories: 205
Protein: About 27 grams
Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
Zinc: 68% of the DV
Selenium: 36% of the DV
now compare that to a serving of bread.
She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.
Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.
Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.
if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.
a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.
Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6
Your logic is completely faulty. Food choices are not a this or that proposition. It is the context of an overall diet that determines overall health. Additionally, your comment about a lot of carbs becoming fat is just plain erroneous. First, if eating an energy balanced diet, how would carbs turn to fat.?
Secondly, de novo lipogenesis, the process by which carbs would convert to fat, is a metabolically expensive and non preferred pathway for fat storage and only happens if there is an excess of carbs and calories. The most likely macro-nutrient to be stored as fat is...fat.
So, no, a lot of carbs don't become fat. The concepts of logic, context and physiology seem to be foreign to you.
food comparisons are done individually, and there are far better things than bread, that are more filling.
you said it, an excess of carbs becomes fats. thank you, doctor.
Worded another way......an excess of fats and calories are stored as fat, OR an excess of proteins and calories are stored as fat too. Any way you slice it fat stores require excess calories.
and some fats store better than others. high carb diets are associated with high levels of triglycerides, and build up of plaque in arteries.
carbs are also addictive. we are now in the midst of the biggest obesity and diabetes epidemic in the history of the human race, thanks to the shift to high consumption of carbohydrates in diets. the obesity rate in adults is @40% by some estimates.
decreasing carbs lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and which leads to weight loss.
Really? I have never heard of people being addicted to cauliflower or spinach. Foods people crave are typically high in carbs AND saturated fats. A mixture of these two taste bloody good. Coincidence?
spinach and cauliflower are high carb and processed like bread? ok.
Except you said carbs are addictive without specification of what types of carbs. I do notice the classical strawmans argument where you ignored the rest of my post. Would that be because foods high in processed carbs are typically also high in saturated fat?
spinach and cauliflower are not high carb foods, processed or otherwise. your statement is silly.
Can You be Addicted to Carbs? Here’s What the Experts Say.
https://www.vitacost.com/blog/food-nutrition/nutrition/carb-addiction.html2 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.
So I am not into bread and rarely eat it. But I value accuracy. So comparing (on cron) 80 cal of Ezekiel bread vs. 80 cal of rib roast with the fat (so keto friendly):
The beef has no fiber, the bread has 3 g.
The beef has sat fat, trans fat, and cholesterol, the bread does not -- which may or may not be relevant to someone.
The beef has 4.9 g of protein, the bread has 4 grams. (Interesting!)
The beef has 1% of B1, the bread has 10%.
Both have 3% of B2.
The beef has 5% of B3, the bread has 8%.
The beef has 1% of B5, the bread has 0%.
The beef has 3% of B6, the bread has 6%.
The beef has 23% of B12 [note: B12 must be supplemented if one eats no animal-sourced foods].
The beef has 2% of D, the bread has none. [Personally, I supplement part of the year this since eating meat or not one has to usually get it from sun or supplements and sun here in the winter is lame.]
The beef has 2% of copper, the bread has none. [I'm rarely short of this.]
The beef has 2% of iron, the bread has 4%. [Interesting!]
The beef has 1% of magnesium, the bread has 7%.
The beef has 5% of phosphorus, the bread has 11%.
The beef has 1% of potassium, the bread has 2%.
The beef has 8% of selenium, the bread has 0% [personally I eat a brazil nut per day and am never low].
The beef has 14% of zinc, the bread has 7% [but again I don't find this something difficult to get].7 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I honestly don't understand why the disregard for personal desires and enjoyment are so widespread in the weight loss community. Physical nutritional needs are put on a pedestal but mental, social, and emotional needs are regarded as sins as if you aren't dieting correctly unless you care about nothing but nutrition. We're humans, not meat machines, and we have needs that go beyond fuel and nutrients.
When someone has a car and enjoys listening to music, do we shame them into selling their sound system to put more fuel into an already full tank? Obviously fuel is important, but once that's taken care of, what's wrong with listening to some music? Is adding more fuel to an overflowing tank morally superior?
I was at a friend's birthday the other day. I enjoyed the social ritual of eating cake together. I needed to socially connect and share an eating ritual of celebration, I didn't need to eat half a cup of spinach. I did the right thing for my body and mind by choosing to eat cake.
I tend to tank on a long run if I don't get some decent carb energy before the run. White bread, bananas, or honey oatmeal are usually my fuel of choice.
For breakfast today I had a sandwich. It tasted good and was very filling. It had sourdough rye bread, one of my favorite types of bread. I was happy and satisfied for reasonable calories without feeling like I was making a sacrifice. The rest of my meals had various foods with various nutrients (lots of vegetables, as usual), and I ended the day with a snack pack of Oreos. Bread was the right thing to eat because it fulfilled the purpose of keeping me physically full and mentally satisfied. Oreos were the right thing to eat because I had calories for them and they made me happy. Being happy makes eating a nutritious and calorie appropriate diet sustainable and aids me in my goal of maintaining my weight.
Different foods serve different main purposes. Nutrition is just one part of the puzzle.
sounds like a good idea for a popular new diet. the 'if it feels good, do it diet.'
Yep, that is how I've dropped 108lbs. It's felt great getting more protein, iron, and fiber and at least 50% carbs daily, working in snacks and small desserts, and basically feeling better about myself and my food choices than I have in years of deprivation diets.i play sports, and simply have a smoothie in the morning, and am good until the afternoon. don't want a bunch of bulky, partially digested food in my gut before i go play sports.
the trick to a healthy diet is to learn to enjoy the healthy foods more than the junk foods.
I walk, strength train, and will be running my 3rd 5K this summer. Hoping to beat last year's time of 27:07 (which was an improvement over my first finish time of 28:17). I love healthy foods. And I love indulgences too. I just indulge in moderation.
by all means enjoy your indulgences, that doesn't make them a good source of nutrition, or anything more than a psychological need. and it's probably more of a reason you became overweight to begin with.
Mostly it was emotional eating, stress eating, being an introvert who found out early that you weren't expected to make conversation if you were stuffing your face (which ties in with the stress eating), and getting locked into a whole 'eat-feel guilty-eat more to numb the guilt-feel guiltier-eat more' down spiral. Once I gave myself permission to enjoy a controlled indulgence, I lost the sides of guilt and self-loathing that had always been included free of charge with each extra helping, etc.
And what exactly is wrong with meeting a psychological need? Is mental health somehow less worthy of attention than physical?
if you can keep to a limited amount, fine, there are probably bigger things in life to worry about, but i'm not seeing how satisfying a craving of processed sugar, is healthy mentally or physically. why not break the addiction and find and/or learn to indulge in healthy foods?
The idea that liking something sweet means I must be addicted to sugar is an interesting leap. Would you recommend a keto-er break a butter addiction? It's also a gross generalization to assume that all desserts are by definition unhealthy. EDIT: Or that I don't already indulge in healthy food.
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
oreo's made #2 on the list.
https://www.stack.com/a/7-horrible-snacks-for-athletes-and-what-they-do-to-your-body?slide=12 -
Is a dessert solely comprised of processed sugar ever? My Angel Cake Pudding gives me protein, calcium, fat, and a bit of fiber. Plus about half the sugar comes from raisins.
Most of my desserts are homemade. Some use sugar, some use maple syrup or honey, most involve fruit as well (fresh or dried). Ease off with your assumptions.11 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.
So I am not into bread and rarely eat it. But I value accuracy. So comparing (on cron) 80 cal of Ezekiel bread vs. 80 cal of rib roast with the fat (so keto friendly):
The beef has no fiber, the bread has 3 g.
The beef has sat fat, trans fat, and cholesterol, the bread does not -- which may or may not be relevant to someone.
The beef has 4.9 g of protein, the bread has 4 grams. (Interesting!)
The beef has 1% of B1, the bread has 10%.
Both have 3% of B2.
The beef has 5% of B3, the bread has 8%.
The beef has 1% of B5, the bread has 0%.
The beef has 3% of B6, the bread has 6%.
The beef has 23% of B12 [note: B12 must be supplemented if one eats no animal-sourced foods].
The beef has 2% of D, the bread has none. [Personally, I supplement part of the year this since eating meat or not one has to usually get it from sun or supplements and sun here in the winter is lame.]
The beef has 2% of copper, the bread has none. [I'm rarely short of this.]
The beef has 2% of iron, the bread has 4%. [Interesting!]
The beef has 1% of magnesium, the bread has 7%.
The beef has 5% of phosphorus, the bread has 11%.
The beef has 1% of potassium, the bread has 2%.
The beef has 8% of selenium, the bread has 0% [personally I eat a brazil nut per day and am never low].
The beef has 14% of zinc, the bread has 7% [but again I don't find this something difficult to get].
except your comparison is apples to oranges.
a serving of bread is considered 40 grams, while a serving of beef is considered 65 grams.
and they don't count calories on keto. they do count carbs.1 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.
So I am not into bread and rarely eat it. But I value accuracy. So comparing (on cron) 80 cal of Ezekiel bread vs. 80 cal of rib roast with the fat (so keto friendly):
The beef has no fiber, the bread has 3 g.
The beef has sat fat, trans fat, and cholesterol, the bread does not -- which may or may not be relevant to someone.
The beef has 4.9 g of protein, the bread has 4 grams. (Interesting!)
The beef has 1% of B1, the bread has 10%.
Both have 3% of B2.
The beef has 5% of B3, the bread has 8%.
The beef has 1% of B5, the bread has 0%.
The beef has 3% of B6, the bread has 6%.
The beef has 23% of B12 [note: B12 must be supplemented if one eats no animal-sourced foods].
The beef has 2% of D, the bread has none. [Personally, I supplement part of the year this since eating meat or not one has to usually get it from sun or supplements and sun here in the winter is lame.]
The beef has 2% of copper, the bread has none. [I'm rarely short of this.]
The beef has 2% of iron, the bread has 4%. [Interesting!]
The beef has 1% of magnesium, the bread has 7%.
The beef has 5% of phosphorus, the bread has 11%.
The beef has 1% of potassium, the bread has 2%.
The beef has 8% of selenium, the bread has 0% [personally I eat a brazil nut per day and am never low].
The beef has 14% of zinc, the bread has 7% [but again I don't find this something difficult to get].
except your comparison is apples to oranges.
a serving of bread is considered 40 grams, while a serving of beef is considered 65 grams.
and they don't count calories on keto. they do count carbs.
It's quite common around here to see people say they do count calories on keto, because they find it pretty easy to overconsume calories even at keto-level carbs. And, as sardelsa (I think it was) asked, if keto assures weight loss, how is one to bulk if needed for a muscle-increase strategy, or even to maintain a healthy weight?12 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Is a dessert solely comprised of processed sugar ever? My Angel Cake Pudding gives me protein, calcium, fat, and a bit of fiber. Plus about half the sugar comes from raisins.
Most of my desserts are homemade. Some use sugar, some use maple syrup or honey, most involve fruit as well (fresh or dried). Ease off with your assumptions.
fyi-you responded to my post responding to another poster who enjoys oreo cookies and cake. you stated in your response having snacks like that helped you lose 108 pounds.
now you're saying your desserts are homemade and au natural. 1 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.
So I am not into bread and rarely eat it. But I value accuracy. So comparing (on cron) 80 cal of Ezekiel bread vs. 80 cal of rib roast with the fat (so keto friendly):
The beef has no fiber, the bread has 3 g.
The beef has sat fat, trans fat, and cholesterol, the bread does not -- which may or may not be relevant to someone.
The beef has 4.9 g of protein, the bread has 4 grams. (Interesting!)
The beef has 1% of B1, the bread has 10%.
Both have 3% of B2.
The beef has 5% of B3, the bread has 8%.
The beef has 1% of B5, the bread has 0%.
The beef has 3% of B6, the bread has 6%.
The beef has 23% of B12 [note: B12 must be supplemented if one eats no animal-sourced foods].
The beef has 2% of D, the bread has none. [Personally, I supplement part of the year this since eating meat or not one has to usually get it from sun or supplements and sun here in the winter is lame.]
The beef has 2% of copper, the bread has none. [I'm rarely short of this.]
The beef has 2% of iron, the bread has 4%. [Interesting!]
The beef has 1% of magnesium, the bread has 7%.
The beef has 5% of phosphorus, the bread has 11%.
The beef has 1% of potassium, the bread has 2%.
The beef has 8% of selenium, the bread has 0% [personally I eat a brazil nut per day and am never low].
The beef has 14% of zinc, the bread has 7% [but again I don't find this something difficult to get].
except your comparison is apples to oranges.
a serving of bread is considered 40 grams, while a serving of beef is considered 65 grams.
and they don't count calories on keto. they do count carbs.
It's quite common around here to see people say they do count calories on keto, because they find it pretty easy to overconsume calories even at keto-level carbs. And, as sardelsa (I think it was) asked, if keto assures weight loss, how is one to bulk if needed for a muscle-increase strategy, or even to maintain a healthy weight?
gain weight on keto? they increase the amount of food they eat i guess.
i'm on a low carb diet, @100 grams/day carbs. macros 20 60 20. eat mostly vegetables. i really don't even watch calories. they just naturally fall in line @2200/day.2 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
You seemed to gloss over the AND CALORIES part.xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »probably should go low carb, @100 grams/day, but still lose the bread. it's of limited nutritional value. vegetables are quick and easy. just needs proper dressing and/or seasoning. as are nuts, legumes and dairy.
Or keep the bread if it is something you enjoy and something you know you will crave if you don't have it. The best way of losing weight is the one that you can adhere to long term, well into maintenance. It isn't just about losing weight but how to keep that weight off indefinitely once you achieve your goal. Don't make changes that you know you won't stick with. This just leads to yoyo dieting for most.
by that way of thinking, why give up anything you crave if it's going to cause discomfort. and why even make changes to your diet or lifestyle at all.
there was once a time when i thought there were many foods i couldn't live without, including ice cream, starchy vegetables, pasta, and bread too. that was until i found out i could live without them.
of course it'll take time to overcome cravings, and instead follow your good sense, and choose nutritionally dense foods. it won't happen overnight. but replacing the junk with nutritionally dense lower carb food should still be a long term goal. and until that time happens portion control should be exercised.
Exactly, why arbitrarily give up anything you crave if you feel better moderating it? That's how I lost the weight. I didn't give up anything, but I changed how much and/or how often I consume it. Some things felt better to lightly moderate, other things felt better to strictly moderate. If it causes less discomfort than the alternative but the end result is the same, why pick the harder route?
I mean, yes, anyone can give up anything they choose and get used to that, but the question is: do they need to? Does it make their life easier? Is the change sustainable? Will being exposed to these foods feel harder or easier when they give them up (like in the case of social eating, for example)? All of these questions are worth asking because the best change is the easiest change you can make to achieve your goal and sustain it.
Giving up bread and starchy carbs, in my case, would interfere with my goal of weight maintenance because they fill me up the most and I'm more likely to feel hungry without them.
i'm not saying you can't lose weight on other diets, but bread is simply not compatible with the op's keto diet or even low carb diet. it contains too many carbs.
i started out on a low calorie diet, low fat diet, and did lose weight, but my diet was lacking important nutrients, while consuming to much of the of the not so good nutrients like sodium and sugar, and i also felt like i was half starving myself all the time. once i changed to low carbohydrate and higher fat, i was able to eat a much higher quantity of food, enabling me to obtain high amounts of all the important nutrients, and never feel hungry. i completely lost every trace of my love handles, and have the body type of a fit 19 year old, and a bmi in the 19 range.
to maintain lean weight in a healthy way, you need to emphasize food quality first of all.
500 calories from bread and 500 calories from an avocado and a few eggs are entirely different. they have the same amount of energy, but the nutrients found in avocado and eggs far exceed the minuscule amount of nutrients that bread has. on keto, Meat Fish Dairy Eggs Vegetables Fruit (especially avocado, olives, berries) are acceptable.
To have a healthy diet you need to have a good balance of nutrients. This can be achieved with or without keto. Your experience is important because it's yours. It simply means you do better eating a keto diet. Not everyone shares your experience. I was starving all the time on keto when I tried it.
You can't really compare individual foods because most people's diets are made up of several foods. The comparison is also highly skewed to show the benefits of a certain eating philosophy. Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of bread (which does have a variety of nutrients) to 500 calories of oil or butter (which have a poor variety of nutrients but are compatible with keto)? Why aren't you comparing 500 calories of beans (which are highly nutritious but not compatible with keto) to 500 calories of bacon grease?
i never said was on a keto diet. i recommended a low carb diet @100 grams of carbs/day, to the op.
foods certainly can be compared, and bread ranks poorly in comparison, nutritionally, to most vegetables or other keto diet items.
This isn't true. Obviously anyone should eat plenty of veg, but I don't think people choose between bread and vegetables. Bread, on keto, would be replaced with higher fat items, some of which are nutritionally dense (avocado, nuts and seeds) but others of which may or may not be filling, depending on the person, but the added fat doesn't add much in the way of nutrients. Examples are cheese, creamy sauces, high fat cuts of meats, so on. Sure, those have some nutrients (as does bread) but you could get the same nutrients in fewer cals with somewhat lower fat choices.
The reason someone might like to include bread or rice or pasta in their diet is not because they are replacing veg, again, but because they find a meal made up of veg, protein, and a starch one of the most delicious and sating ways to eat, and many of the most healthy diets in the world include plenty of starches, as well as veg and fruit (the latter of which also is pretty difficult to fit in on keto).
I'm not down on keto and if OP seemed like she really wanted to do it and thought it would work for her, I'd encourage her. I also personally don't care about bread one bit (I do like fruit and other starches). But it's simply not true that keto or other lower carb diets are inherently healthier or better for weight loss than other ways of eating (that may well include bread as well as veg).
I tried keto as an experiment and used all my carbs for veg plus half an avocado sometimes, a serving of nuts/seeds and occasional full fat plain greek yogurt, and found I was usually having to eat fewer veg than I normally do, fewer nuts and seeds than I normally do (I prefer a couple of servings a day), obviously less fruit, as my only fruit was the half avocado, and I was cutting out other things I think are healthy and satisfying (like beans and lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes, occasional whole grains) as well as some foods I just like. I also was eating more meat than I normally prefer. So while I absolutely think it can be healthy (or that eating low carb can be healthy), I didn't find that my diet was healthier eating that way and I also did not find it more satisfying.
i never said a low carb diet is the best diet. what the best diet is could be debated until the end of time. i have just related my own experience, that i can eat more, am never hungry, and have gotten downright lean on a low carb diet. not to mention i'm easily getting all my nutritional needs.
however, if the op is considering keto, bread's definitely off limits. and is not even a good choice for a low carb diet, unless eaten only occasionally.
i'm am a vegetarian but a 3.5 oz serving of beef:
Calories: 205
Protein: About 27 grams
Riboflavin: 15% of the Daily Value (DV)
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Vitamin B6: 19% of the DV
Vitamin B12: 158% of the DV
Niacin: 24% of the DV
Phosphorus: 19% of the DV
Zinc: 68% of the DV
Selenium: 36% of the DV
now compare that to a serving of bread.
She is considering keto because she thinks it's the best choice but feels she won't be able to do it. She would have gotten very different answers had she not expressed distress over having to do keto.
Comparing single food nutrients means little on its own. You need to consider an entire day's worth of nutrients.
Here is an example of a day I had that included bread:
if you are going to compare 2 foods nutritional values, they have be done individually. comparing an entire day's meals it not a fair comparison.
if the op has done research and is interested in keto, but has reservations about it, then the next logical step would be for op to try some variation of it, like liberal or moderate low carb, where she could have some bread. there are many foods i once thought i loved, but now don't miss a bit. cravings are only psychological.
a lot carbs become fat, the unhealthy type, triglycerides.
Not only can these diets improve your cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar, but they also reduce your appetite, boost weight loss and lower your triglycerides.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets#section6
Your logic is completely faulty. Food choices are not a this or that proposition. It is the context of an overall diet that determines overall health. Additionally, your comment about a lot of carbs becoming fat is just plain erroneous. First, if eating an energy balanced diet, how would carbs turn to fat.?
Secondly, de novo lipogenesis, the process by which carbs would convert to fat, is a metabolically expensive and non preferred pathway for fat storage and only happens if there is an excess of carbs and calories. The most likely macro-nutrient to be stored as fat is...fat.
So, no, a lot of carbs don't become fat. The concepts of logic, context and physiology seem to be foreign to you.
food comparisons are done individually, and there are far better things than bread, that are more filling.
you said it, an excess of carbs becomes fats. thank you, doctor.
Worded another way......an excess of fats and calories are stored as fat, OR an excess of proteins and calories are stored as fat too. Any way you slice it fat stores require excess calories.
and some fats store better than others. high carb diets are associated with high levels of triglycerides, and build up of plaque in arteries.
carbs are also addictive. we are now in the midst of the biggest obesity and diabetes epidemic in the history of the human race, thanks to the shift to high consumption of carbohydrates in diets. the obesity rate in adults is @40% by some estimates.
decreasing carbs lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and which leads to weight loss.
Really? I have never heard of people being addicted to cauliflower or spinach. Foods people crave are typically high in carbs AND saturated fats. A mixture of these two taste bloody good. Coincidence?
spinach and cauliflower are high carb and processed like bread? ok.
Except you said carbs are addictive without specification of what types of carbs. I do notice the classical strawmans argument where you ignored the rest of my post. Would that be because foods high in processed carbs are typically also high in saturated fat?
spinach and cauliflower are not high carb foods, processed or otherwise. your statement is silly.
Can You be Addicted to Carbs? Here’s What the Experts Say.
https://www.vitacost.com/blog/food-nutrition/nutrition/carb-addiction.html
Cauliflower: 71% of calories from carbs.
Spinach, I grant, only 56% of calories from carbs.
But I joke, here. Clearly, cauliflower is not donuts. Still I see no reason why people shouldn't eat the occasional donut, in the context of an overall healthy diet (even though I don't like donuts, personally).
Still, carbs are carbs. Some foods are more or less calorie-dense than others, more or less filling than others, more or less nutrient-dense than others beyond carb level, etc. Once a mixed meal is in the digestive system, it's the mix that counts, not the components. The blackstrap molasses in my protein-laden whole oatmeal breakfast (78g C, 21g F, 39g P) isn't going to hurt me, even though it's "added sugars", and in a context of (gasp) 41g sugars in the whole meal (of which only the molasses is really particularly "processed", BTW).
I think there are foods that tend to push our natural-selection-installed buttons, and many of those are high in sugars and fats. Cookies, cakes, ice cream: Generally, more calories from fats than from carbs. They're not very filling, so really easy to over-eat, for many people. And I have no clue why people call pizza "carbs", as (for example) pretty much every one Domino's sells get more calories from fats/protein than from carbs.
Interestingly, the article you link (1) includes experts who are skeptical of this "addiction" hypothesis, and (2) suggests replacing addictive carbs with . . . different carbs (sweet potatoes, plantains, etc.).
As far as "carbs" being the reason for the obesity crisis: I don't think so. I'm not going to go into it in depth here, but I was alive and adult and paying attention before the obesity crisis allegedly began in the 1980s, and there's a whole lot more involved than " addictive carbs". People ate baked goods and candy before the 1980s.
You seem to be setting up a false dichotomy that has endpoints of "carbs" and "unprocessed foods". What is it that's really "bad" here? Processed-ness, or carbs? Or "processed carbs"? It's confusing. This whole "good foods/bad foods" kind of analysis seems to me to make good nutrition harder, vs. easier. Good nutrition is important, and not all that hard, IMO.
As far as triglycerides go, I used to have ultra high triglycerides. Around 7 years ago, they hit over 400. Bad, for sure. After (in fact, during) weight loss, they dropped to an entirely healthy level. And they've stayed there since, even as I eat 200g+ of carbs most days, and remain at a healthy weight without much effort or stress.
It sounds like you've found a way of eating that really works for you, and that's great. It sounds like you used to eat in a much more processed-food kind of way (you mentioned trying to lose with low calorie, low fat, too much sodium/sugar), and found that unhelpful (you mentioned feeling half-starving when cutting calories). I admit that's inference. Either way, not all of us came from that background. (I got fat - even obese - eating mostly whole-foods vegetarian, while athletically active . . . then got thin again, then have maintained, the same way. What I eat didn't much change, just how much - different portions & proportions.)
I think you believe some scientifically questionable things about your current chosen way of eating. That's also fine, until you try to convince others that your current way is superior, and use that questionable science; and you seem to claim that the rest of us who think it's OK to eat some bread or even treat foods are advocating low quality diets, which is simply not true.
Low carb is fine. For most people (without certain medical/metabolic conditions), it's optional. People can get good nutrition eating carbs. People can lose weight eating carbs. People can have healthy triglyceride levels eating carbs. Some people can be satiated and not struggle with cravings while eating carbs. If someone finds it easier to achieve their goals by reducing carbs, they should certainly reduce carbs. If they don't have that experience, there's no particular penalty from eating relatively higher carbs within the context of an overall nutritious and calorie-appropriate overall diet.11 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Is a dessert solely comprised of processed sugar ever? My Angel Cake Pudding gives me protein, calcium, fat, and a bit of fiber. Plus about half the sugar comes from raisins.
Most of my desserts are homemade. Some use sugar, some use maple syrup or honey, most involve fruit as well (fresh or dried). Ease off with your assumptions.
fyi-you responded to my post responding to another poster who enjoys oreo cookies and cake. you stated in your response having snacks like that helped you lose 108 pounds.
now you're saying your desserts are homemade and au natural.
Cake can't be homemade and natural? I commented on your response to a different poster:
From that you decided that I was a sugar addict, using desserts as a psychological crutch, had an overall unhealthy diet, and a whole lot of other unwarranted conclusions.sounds like a good idea for a popular new diet. the 'if it feels good, do it diet.'
But you know something? If the OP likes Oreos and is able to make room for them within their calorie deficit, there is nothing wrong with that either, so long as they don't crowd out essential nutrients.7 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Is a dessert solely comprised of processed sugar ever? My Angel Cake Pudding gives me protein, calcium, fat, and a bit of fiber. Plus about half the sugar comes from raisins.
Most of my desserts are homemade. Some use sugar, some use maple syrup or honey, most involve fruit as well (fresh or dried). Ease off with your assumptions.
fyi-you responded to my post responding to another poster who enjoys oreo cookies and cake. you stated in your response having snacks like that helped you lose 108 pounds.
now you're saying your desserts are homemade and au natural.
Cake can't be homemade and natural? I commented on your response to a different poster:
From that you decided that I was a sugar addict, using desserts as a psychological crutch, had an overall unhealthy diet, and a whole lot of other unwarranted conclusions.sounds like a good idea for a popular new diet. the 'if it feels good, do it diet.'
But you know something? If the OP likes Oreos and is able to make room for them within their calorie deficit, there is nothing wrong with that either, so long as they don't crowd out essential nutrients.
maybe try reading posts more thoroughly before commenting on them, so you don't have to move the goalposts later.
it would be better to just nix the oreo's and cake.0 -
I moved no goalposts.
I have lost 108lbs eating whatever I wanted. Most of the time, I wanted (and want) healthy food and homemade desserts. Sometimes I have a chocolate bar or a storebought cookie. I make room for them. It's not either-or.
Barring a medical reason, why should anyone nix foods they like if they can make them fit their diet?16 -
This is going to be impossible for me! I need quick abs easy meals and I love bread and carbs! 🤦🏼♀️
we all love or at one time loved carbs, until we found better options.
bread is not compatible with a keto diet, but there are bread substitutes that are.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/15-low-carb-bread-recipes
otherwise you may consider just a low carb diet, say 100-125 grams of carbs per day with macros of 20% carbs 60% fats 20% protein that would allow for more carbs. i'm an evo-vegetarianan, and it's amazing how lean i've gotten on this diet while never feeling hungry using these parameters.
3 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »In comparing 92 calories of French bread to 142 calories of Beef sirloin, trimmed to 0" fat
The bread has more
Thiamin (9% vs 4%)
Folate (12% vs 3%)5
Manganese (8% vs 1)
So I fail to see how one can carte blanche say beef has more nutrition simplicitor. Clearly if someone's diet is low in any of those three, bread is more nutritious to them to have than having an even greater amount of calories of beef.
All nutrition requires a context to evaluate better or worse.
So I am not into bread and rarely eat it. But I value accuracy. So comparing (on cron) 80 cal of Ezekiel bread vs. 80 cal of rib roast with the fat (so keto friendly):
The beef has no fiber, the bread has 3 g.
The beef has sat fat, trans fat, and cholesterol, the bread does not -- which may or may not be relevant to someone.
The beef has 4.9 g of protein, the bread has 4 grams. (Interesting!)
The beef has 1% of B1, the bread has 10%.
Both have 3% of B2.
The beef has 5% of B3, the bread has 8%.
The beef has 1% of B5, the bread has 0%.
The beef has 3% of B6, the bread has 6%.
The beef has 23% of B12 [note: B12 must be supplemented if one eats no animal-sourced foods].
The beef has 2% of D, the bread has none. [Personally, I supplement part of the year this since eating meat or not one has to usually get it from sun or supplements and sun here in the winter is lame.]
The beef has 2% of copper, the bread has none. [I'm rarely short of this.]
The beef has 2% of iron, the bread has 4%. [Interesting!]
The beef has 1% of magnesium, the bread has 7%.
The beef has 5% of phosphorus, the bread has 11%.
The beef has 1% of potassium, the bread has 2%.
The beef has 8% of selenium, the bread has 0% [personally I eat a brazil nut per day and am never low].
The beef has 14% of zinc, the bread has 7% [but again I don't find this something difficult to get].
except your comparison is apples to oranges.
a serving of bread is considered 40 grams, while a serving of beef is considered 65 grams.
and they don't count calories on keto. they do count carbs.
No, my comparison is the only sensible way -- same calories -- given that you are claiming bread is inherently a waste of cals and OP should not consume it.
You make a lot of pronouncements about keto given that you don't even do it. Many people count cals on keto. But the bigger issue is that OP doesn't seem to want to do keto.9 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
Maybe you should speak for yourself. I love some foods that are mostly carbs (most fruits, most vegetables, potatoes, are some examples).
I also dislike or am not that into other foods that are mostly carbs (I don't care for grapefruit, I don't like most packaged pre-sliced breads, I don't care for jam, and I dislike all cold cereals, sweetened or not).
I assume everyone similarly has some foods that are mostly carb that they enjoy and some they do not. Therefore it seems odd to me to claim that people "love carbs." I don't really think of foods as "carbs" or not, although I do generally know about how many carbs are in different foods and which ones are mostly carb (not everyone does seemingly, as often foods that are half or more fat get called "carbs" or foods that are mixed macros).
I also disagree that "carbs" are problem foods and that we should find "better options."
I cut cals when I decided to lose weight by looking at my diet and seeing what was easiest to cut. Mostly that was portions overall (and for me starchy carbs were easy to cut portions of) and then also added fat (including cheese). Probably about equal cals overall from both, so my fat and carbs both went down and protein went up, but overall macros probably did not change dramatically. I also cut out snacking, which meant cutting back on the occasional sweet treat, sure -- although I've never had a huge sweet tooth so it wasn't so much that -- and also my cheese habit and uncontrolled consumption of nuts.
My diet (which included plenty of protein and vegetables and primarily homecooked meals) was already quite healthy, so I didn't need to find "healthier options," I just needed to cut cals. And hunger when losing wasn't an issue for me.
You don't know anything about how OP eats either, and it is unfortunate that you feel compelled to tell others that because low carb worked for you that that's the one right way to do it.5 -
Amazing what you learn on here....
Spinich v. bread is a valid nutritional comparison but bread v. beef isn't.
Bread doesn't have any nutritional benefit despite the long list of nutrients and vitamins stated clearly on the food labelling.
Sugar doesn't have any nutrients despite the carbs (a macro nutrient) or any benefit despite providing energy to fuel your body.
People following a keto diet and eating limited amounts of bread must all be liars.
You can't be eating junk food if you go low carb but you must be a carb addict compelled to gorge on junk food if you have a high carb diet (even if that high carb diet was made up of minimally processed vegetables, grains and fruits presumably?).
If you are low carbing to lose weight then you only count carbs and not calories despite calorie balance determining weight gain, loss or maintenance.
#mindblown
26 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
9 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
I always find it so helpful when those who have no idea what they are talking about self identify so clearly!5 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
Observation: Standard butter does have a ridiculously small amount (for the calories) of some micros (per tablespoon of butter 3.4 mg potassium, 0.3% calcium, 7.1% vitamin A, etc.) according to the USDA legacy data. Protein can be non-zero, but below the reportable threshold (USDA legacy lists 0.1g/tablespoon).
Not a nutrient-dense food, not at all. Calorie-dense. Tasty, to some.
Your overall point clearly holds, I'm just throwing this in to head off arm-waving about micros. I'm for "team accuracy" and "team keep-facts-in-context", as I believe you are. 6 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
Observation: Standard butter does have a ridiculously small amount (for the calories) of some micros (per tablespoon of butter 3.4 mg potassium, 0.3% calcium, 7.1% vitamin A, etc.) according to the USDA legacy data. Protein can be non-zero, but below the reportable threshold (USDA legacy lists 0.1g/tablespoon).
Not a nutrient-dense food, not at all. Calorie-dense. Tasty, to some.
Your overall point clearly holds, I'm just throwing this in to head off arm-waving about micros. I'm for "team accuracy" and "team keep-facts-in-context", as I believe you are.
Yup, we are definitely on the same page although I take issue with your "Tasty, to some" How can that pat of golden deliciousness not be tasty to everyone?????? Then again, I come from a state where restaurants, BY LAW, have to serve butter but can serve margarine by request. Until the mid-60's it was illegal to sell colored margarine here too. Mom would get this bag of white stuff and pop a dye button and knead the color into it. She only did this for some of the Christmas baking. We used butter for everything else.4 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
Observation: Standard butter does have a ridiculously small amount (for the calories) of some micros (per tablespoon of butter 3.4 mg potassium, 0.3% calcium, 7.1% vitamin A, etc.) according to the USDA legacy data. Protein can be non-zero, but below the reportable threshold (USDA legacy lists 0.1g/tablespoon).
Not a nutrient-dense food, not at all. Calorie-dense. Tasty, to some.
Your overall point clearly holds, I'm just throwing this in to head off arm-waving about micros. I'm for "team accuracy" and "team keep-facts-in-context", as I believe you are.
Yup, we are definitely on the same page although I take issue with your "Tasty, to some" How can that pat of golden deliciousness not be tasty to everyone?????? Then again, I come from a state where restaurants, BY LAW, have to serve butter but can serve margarine by request. Until the mid-60's it was illegal to sell colored margarine here too. Mom would get this bag of white stuff and pop a dye button and knead the color into it. She only did this for some of the Christmas baking. We used butter for everything else.
Growing up strictly kosher, there are laws about mixing meat and dairy (specifically, 'Don't do it'. This extends to having separate dishes, pots, pans and utensils for meat and dairy, not serving a meat dish on the same plate with a dairy dish, cooking dairy in a meat pot, etc.) So I grew up with butter for dairy, margarine for meat, and also margarine/oil in a lot of baking because we tended to only have dessert for Sabbath—which involved meat meals.
I'm vegetarian, married to a meat eater, with a relatively small kitchen. I just... don't do dairy much when it comes to cooking. I have Greek yogurt in the morning in a paper bowl with a plastic spoon. I have a toaster oven if I want to heat up a slice of pizza. But otherwise, it's all meat and pareve (neutral; contains neither meat nor dairy). So, yeah, I make a point of buying transfat-free margarine, but I pretty much use that or oil in cooking and baking.1 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »This is going to be impossible for me! I need quick abs easy meals and I love bread and carbs! 🤦🏼♀️
we all love or at one time loved carbs, until we found better options.
bread is not compatible with a keto diet, but there are bread substitutes that are.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/15-low-carb-bread-recipes
otherwise you may consider just a low carb diet, say 100-125 grams of carbs per day with macros of 20% carbs 60% fats 20% protein that would allow for more carbs. i'm an evo-vegetarianan, and it's amazing how lean i've gotten on this diet while never feeling hungry using these parameters.
I have no problem with foods that are mostly carbs, like tropical fruit. When I was in Costa Rico for 6 weeks I dropped a size without even trying by eating mangoes all day long, plus bananas, pineapple, papaya, rice & beans, etc.
My problem is with hyper-palatable foods that are high in both carbs AND fat.
I don't want to go back to the fat demonization days, but let's stop with the carb demonization.7 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
Observation: Standard butter does have a ridiculously small amount (for the calories) of some micros (per tablespoon of butter 3.4 mg potassium, 0.3% calcium, 7.1% vitamin A, etc.) according to the USDA legacy data. Protein can be non-zero, but below the reportable threshold (USDA legacy lists 0.1g/tablespoon).
Not a nutrient-dense food, not at all. Calorie-dense. Tasty, to some.
Your overall point clearly holds, I'm just throwing this in to head off arm-waving about micros. I'm for "team accuracy" and "team keep-facts-in-context", as I believe you are.
Yup, we are definitely on the same page although I take issue with your "Tasty, to some" How can that pat of golden deliciousness not be tasty to everyone?????? Then again, I come from a state where restaurants, BY LAW, have to serve butter but can serve margarine by request. Until the mid-60's it was illegal to sell colored margarine here too. Mom would get this bag of white stuff and pop a dye button and knead the color into it. She only did this for some of the Christmas baking. We used butter for everything else.
Mostly, just rhetorically cautious. For anything, there's someone who doesn't like it.
For me, when I was a tiny child, my favorite aunt, a farmer, let me eat all the the homemade butter I wanted, with a spoon, in one sitting. I couldn't eat it again for many years. But I've since recovered. 3 -
xxxpopeyexxx wrote: »
butter contains important nutrients and has health benefits when consumed in moderation, does processed sugar?
I have been wondering if you are a troll. Now I am convinced because nobody could seriously make that statement with a straight face.
What I really want to highlight is that most people that crave bread hanker from some of this butter placed on it. Much more crave-worthy when the bread is still warm and the butter melts into it!1
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