Coronavirus prep

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  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    ExistingFish wrote: »
    I just see what I consider irrational behavior online.

    Very little is easier to find than irrational behavior online.
    I'm just watching our state's daily covid update. They did a survey - which I understand isn't scientific or anything - but 82% of respondents say they are wearing masks when they go out. They even broke it down by age. 16% said No, and 2% weren't sure. That's over the 80% that would be needed to slow down covid.

    Do you think those numbers reflect the reality where you are?
  • ExistingFish
    ExistingFish Posts: 1,259 Member
    edited July 2020
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    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ExistingFish wrote: »
    I just see what I consider irrational behavior online.

    Very little is easier to find than irrational behavior online.
    I'm just watching our state's daily covid update. They did a survey - which I understand isn't scientific or anything - but 82% of respondents say they are wearing masks when they go out. They even broke it down by age. 16% said No, and 2% weren't sure. That's over the 80% that would be needed to slow down covid.

    Do you think those numbers reflect the reality where you are?

    Yes, I said that. They do seem to correlate.

    I would say between 75 and 85% in the grocery store. 100% at the dentist and chiropractor and hair salon. All people at the gym were maintaining 12'+ distance. 95% at drive throughs (I saw one person without a mask). Those are the only places I've been, and I don't go out often. I go to scheduled appointments everywhere except the grocery store and gym, so there is very little traffic.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    ExistingFish wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    ExistingFish wrote: »
    Where I live, we have a Sheriff, a Deputy, and one Patrol Officer. I don't think having them running around mandating masks is a good use of their time.

    You are really letting your anxiety run away with you.


    Just like there is not a Deputy at every stop sign, there is not going to be a mass LEO response to a teenager at the Rite Aid not wearing a mask.

    The "enforcement" as it is will fall to retailers and businesses to not serve those who are not wearing a mask. Just like dogs aren't allowed in stores, but people bring their dogs in anyway. Smoking isn't allowed at the zoo, but people smoke anyway. I don't blame stores and businesses for not being able to control this any more than they can control someone walking out with a $40 steak.

    Be realistic here. C'mon.

    There is a lot to be said for Social Pressure. The more people who wear masks, the more people will be self-conscious about not wearing them. Not everyone - because sociopathy and psychopathy - but we'll have to live with that or move to a tent in the woods.

    But see we already have that. Without a mandate. There are posters on this thread calling for a nationwide mandate with enforcement. In the past 5 pages. That is what I think is being irrational.

    We have no mandate in our state, and establishments have had the right to refuse people without masks since the shutdown started in March. What I've said, and what I'm saying - is that we don't need a mandate. We don't need law enforcement to enforce it.

    I didn't realize there were still areas where businesses were powerless to deny service to non-maskers. That has been allowed here since the beginning. I think we are seeing the word "mandate" and "enforcement" different ways.

    Did you or did you not say:
    ExistingFish wrote: »
    Where I live, we have a Sheriff, a Deputy, and one Patrol Officer. I don't think having them running around mandating masks is a good use of their time.

    The store employees making low wage are the enforcers. I wouldn't count on that. The one place that does work is Costco because it's members-only with membership required to enter. Other business have open doors and even though they are empowered to the "No mask no service" thing - it's still a matter of people just being testy in general. When we had masks as a suggestion, lots of people weren't wearing them. I'm happy for the Mandate even though I know there aren't going to be police at the door of the Safeway.




    IME, big chains with lots of employees are able to enforce it by having employees dedicated (who are already stationed outside to count people coming in). Earlier today I was in my neighborhood's local shopping area (filled with small stores now able to be open), and they were doing a good job too. Part of is community-spiritedness, I think, as well as the fact many are so small that they were having a very tiny number of people in at a time, so it would be hard not to stick out not wearing a mask. And most people in the neighborhood really want to support our local stores, so wouldn't fight the rules I don't think.

    And no, people break the rules outdoors (they are mandated in situations where you can't socially distance) here and mostly don't get ticketed. People were crowding in lines (no mask -- 20-somethings) to get into bars and restaurants and within the bars (there's supposed to be a limited number of people in them and you are supposed to stay in a seat when not going to the bathroom or the like). If bars don't enforce the rules they will get penalties.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    ExistingFish wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    ExistingFish wrote: »
    I just see what I consider irrational behavior online.

    Very little is easier to find than irrational behavior online.
    I'm just watching our state's daily covid update. They did a survey - which I understand isn't scientific or anything - but 82% of respondents say they are wearing masks when they go out. They even broke it down by age. 16% said No, and 2% weren't sure. That's over the 80% that would be needed to slow down covid.

    Do you think those numbers reflect the reality where you are?

    Yes, I said that. They do seem to correlate.

    I would say between 75 and 85% in the grocery store. 100% at the dentist and chiropractor and hair salon. All people at the gym were maintaining 12'+ distance. 95% at drive throughs (I saw one person without a mask). Those are the only places I've been, and I don't go out often. I go to scheduled appointments everywhere except the grocery store and gym, so there is very little traffic.

    I noticed your answer after I posted that, and that you were mostly talking about at business that themselves have mandates. The surveys typically are about wearing them always, like outdoors.

    I don't personally think there's a need to wear them when you are outdoors and can socially distance (our mandate does not require them then), but I see lots of people outdoors in situations where they aren't, or can't, socially distance, and no way is compliance that high then, and less so outdoors downtown (with more people from the 'burbs and elsewhere out of town).

    From what people have reported here, more rural areas in general are less likely to have high number of people wearing masks outside of strict requirements (like at a dentist or hairdresser or some stores that demand it), which makes some sense as I understand the need wouldn't be as apparent and might not exist. That's why I was surprised before I understood you were talking about such limited situations. Curious what the percentages are for your state on the chart Carnivore linked, as none were over 80%.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,463 Member
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    gradchica27 wrote: »
    Talking with my brother today, both of our state had new infection highs today. He was mentioning the debates about whether the local university would require masks next fall. One school of thought was that since governor hadn’t made it mandatory that the u shouldn’t go beyond what was required (for political reasons really). The argument was that if professors wanted masks they could do it. Professors were not happy about that, not wanting to be the enforcers AND the rule makers. Better to just say “it’s policy at this school, so do it” vs “it’s my personal policy, do it”. Professors (so generally older, understanding that the students would likely be partying and in close contact outside of class) lobbies for masks as general policy.

    General handwringing of “how can we make them do this?” Then someone said, “we make everyone get vaccinated. When we had a measles outbreak we made every unvaccinated student go home. Surely we can do the same with masks”. No rejoinder for that. Policy still up in the air.

    Anyone else’s university come out with a definite plan yet?

    The state university in my community as well as the one about 50 miles down the Interstate both said masks will be required on campus.

    All well and good but will be forgotten about an hour after the first beer is cracked at and apartment or Greek house.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    I just had a thought as I smacked a mosquito on my arm and there was blood... can mosquitoes spread this?!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,922 Member
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    gradchica27 wrote: »
    Talking with my brother today, both of our state had new infection highs today. He was mentioning the debates about whether the local university would require masks next fall. One school of thought was that since governor hadn’t made it mandatory that the u shouldn’t go beyond what was required (for political reasons really). The argument was that if professors wanted masks they could do it. Professors were not happy about that, not wanting to be the enforcers AND the rule makers. Better to just say “it’s policy at this school, so do it” vs “it’s my personal policy, do it”. Professors (so generally older, understanding that the students would likely be partying and in close contact outside of class) lobbies for masks as general policy.

    General handwringing of “how can we make them do this?” Then someone said, “we make everyone get vaccinated. When we had a measles outbreak we made every unvaccinated student go home. Surely we can do the same with masks”. No rejoinder for that. Policy still up in the air.

    Anyone else’s university come out with a definite plan yet?

    Here's highlights from the UMass policy:

    https://www.umass.edu/coronavirus/health-and-safety

    ...2. Public Health Promotion Measures
    • Students will be required to sign The UMass Agreement in regard to social distancing and other public health practices.
    • Face coverings are required in classrooms, workspaces, and all other common areas, indoors and in any outdoor situation where social distancing is not possible.

    More:

    2020 Reopening Plan: Health and Safety
    The university is using the best science and public health information available to protect members of the campus community; efforts are focused on mitigating the risk of infection and spread of the virus. We are relying upon the guidance and direction of the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC), local, state, and federal health and medical professionals in setting our campus reopening and return to campus plans, and in determining the elements of our reopening and return to campus plans.

    Our newly created Public Health Promotion Center will serve as the campus coordinating and operational hub for COVID-19 mitigation efforts. Its focus is to positively influence public health behaviors, provide critical health screening, and monitor protocols to maintain the health and wellness of our campus community.

    As part of these efforts, we are implementing a multi-layered approach to deter the spread of the virus, help protect our campus, and allow us to rapidly respond when faculty, staff, or students present symptoms or test positive for the virus.

    Fall 2020: A Multi-Layered Approach to Campus Health and Safety

    1. The Public Health Promotion Center

    The university is taking a leading and innovative approach by creating a Public Health Promotion Center (PHPC) to positively influence the public health behaviors surrounding COVID-19 and provide critical health screening and monitoring protocols to maintain the health and wellness of our campus community. The PHPC will serve as the central coordinating and operational center for COVID-19 and focus on the following: asymptomatic testing (symptomatic testing will be conducted at University Health Services); contact tracing; coordinating isolation and quarantine; flu vaccinations; and communication outreach focused on health promotion with public health ambassadors.

    2. Public Health Promotion Measures
    • Students will be required to sign The UMass Agreement in regard to social distancing and other public health practices.
    • Face coverings are required in classrooms, workspaces, and all other common areas, indoors and in any outdoor situation where social distancing is not possible.
    • Appropriate barriers – plexiglass and other similar materials – will be established in high-volume areas.
    • Sanitation and cleaning will be enhanced in buildings throughout the campus, and adequate hand sanitizer products will be made available in all common spaces (lobbies, lounges, academic learning centers, and classrooms).
    • UMass Dining operations will be modified to meet new state requirements for cleaning, social distancing, and customer limits. More than 30 campus locations will be revamped. The plan includes new grab-and-go sites, outdoor dining tents and mobile ordering at some retail locations.
    • Workplaces, meeting rooms, and research laboratories will have modified occupancy. Additionally, residence halls may have modified occupancy.
    • Students will follow classroom operating guidelines that include:
    • Requiring students/faculty to watch an education video prior to the first day of classes on the public health measures in place for the classrooms/laboratories
    • Require students/faculty to wipe down chairs, other commonly touched surfaces, etc. at the start of every class
    • Require face coverings in class
    • No eating or drinking in class
    • Assigned seating, where appropriate

    3. Daily Screening for All
    • Faculty, students, and staff will use either the My UMass app or another application.
    • Faculty, students, and staff must conduct symptom monitoring every day before coming to campus or leaving their residence hall room.
    • A student who does not live in UMass housing must be free of any symptoms related to COVID-19 to be on campus or participate in activities on campus.

    4. Testing
    • In line with current, best scientific practices, UMass will prioritize diagnostic testing and will continue to follow the development of antibody testing for potential use.
    • UMass will execute a screening and testing strategy that mitigates community spread through early identification.
    • Individuals coming to campus will be tested prior to arrival.
    • Individuals who have any of the symptoms related to COVID-19 will be promptly tested by University Health Services. Individuals who are determined to be a close contact of an individual testing positive will also receive testing.
    • Infection rates will be monitored on campus and in the surrounding communities.

    5. Contact Tracing
    • UMass is expanding its case management team, using all relevant departments that provide contact tracing, support services, and coordination of quarantine and isolation. This team will be trained and available to support the campus community.
    • To help determine the risk of potential exposure to others on campus, the UMass Public Health Team will conduct contact tracing with any campus individual who has tested positive.
    • The UMass Public Heath Team will have a dedicated phone number and caller ID, and will actively promote “Answer the Call” to help protect the UMass community.

    6. Isolation and Quarantine

    The CDC defines isolation as separating sick people with a contagious disease from people who are not sick, and quarantine as separating and restricting the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.
    • Our plan for UMass residence halls for fall 2020 is focused on COVID-19 conditions, meaning we have identified quarantine and isolation locations for our on-campus residential community and will de-densify residential spaces to provide housing that is as safe as possible.
    • The university is committed to supporting all students during any required isolation and quarantine. This includes contact tracing, academic support, health services, and counseling services.
    • All students living on campus will be required to have an isolation and quarantine plan. For those students who can travel in a private vehicle, we strongly recommend isolation and quarantine in the comfort of your own home. For those students living on-campus and cannot travel home, the university will have dedicated isolation and quarantine space.
    • Students living off campus will be encouraged to have an isolation and quarantine plan. The university will provide support services in your off-campus location or at your home. The university will not provide on-campus isolation and quarantine space.
    • All students in isolation and quarantine, both on- and off-campus, will receive a daily wellness call.
    • Students in isolation or quarantine will be encouraged to continue their coursework remotely.
    • The university Public Health Team and/or local board of health have legal authority to issue isolation or quarantine orders, and such orders must be followed at all times.

    7. Required Education for All
    • COVID-19 safety training is mandatory and includes instruction on physical distancing, wearing of face coverings, hand hygiene, and sanitation.
    • A campus-wide approach is being developed to ensure consistent messaging.

    8. High-risk Individuals Are Encouraged to Continue Remote Work and Study
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    TonyB0588 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    baconslave wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    The Tuscaloosa Alabama story -- students having Covid-19 parties, with a known infected person, putting money into a pot and the first one to officially "get it" gets the money -- makes me believe that we are the dumbest country in history. Sorry, there's no other way to look at it.

    Went out to another outdoor concert last night, much better band this time. AZ rates are soaring. Only states worse are TX and CA, where my kids live! We went out again last night to eat and ate on a patio again.

    I've resigned myself that there is no "back to normal" unless they find a vaccine for this. Or it could mutate so much that it won't be nearly as deadly. But once school is back in session, in the Fall, which I think is a terrible idea BTW, 1.5M dead doesn't seem too outrageous now. Perhaps 2M. The numbers don't lie. 5% have been infected and 130K dead. Multiply X 13. That's the point at which they say we will have herd immunity.

    Our response as a country has been a pathetic combination of finger pointing, selfishness and incompetence.

    Yep.
    My sister lives in Houston, and I'm here in northeast TN, which is itchin' to catch up to TX. We have in this country a large population of entitled, uncaring, thoughtless, brats of widely varying ages. I have friends (30s & 40s), inlaws (60s), a 19-year-old sister-in-law, aunts and uncles (50s-70s) who are being so belligerent, selfish and ignorant. They are proof that unfortunately we can't just blame the lack of leadership of our government. Though they have certainly contributed greatly.

    I'm so sorry. I'd pick you up and bring you here. No cases for now till the tourists show up I'm guessing. Everyone wants to come to Queensland worst luck. Hoping we keep boarders closed. Doubt it'll happen. Yeah.. come up and give us Covid.

    You can open the borders but put restrictions in place. We expect tourists from next week, but they MUST have a test before traveling, and bring a COVID-free certificate to show at Immigration and Customs.


    I take it by the reference to Immigration and Customs that you are talking about international tourists.

    Australia, where mockchoc and I live, is a long way from accepting international tourists.

    I think mockchoc was talking more state borders , especially since she said ' come up and give us Covid ' ie come up from southern states NSW and Victoria where Covid is still very active.

    safe states here have closed their borders to other states - we may start opening to other safe states at some point.

    I would like to go on holiday to Whitsunday islands ( northern Queensland) - may be possible in a few months from South Australia, also safe state.

    Yes and I'll take you out to dinner or cook for you. I'm right near the Great Barrier Reef :)
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
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    bpetrosky wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    TonyB0588 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    baconslave wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    The Tuscaloosa Alabama story -- students having Covid-19 parties, with a known infected person, putting money into a pot and the first one to officially "get it" gets the money -- makes me believe that we are the dumbest country in history. Sorry, there's no other way to look at it.

    Went out to another outdoor concert last night, much better band this time. AZ rates are soaring. Only states worse are TX and CA, where my kids live! We went out again last night to eat and ate on a patio again.

    I've resigned myself that there is no "back to normal" unless they find a vaccine for this. Or it could mutate so much that it won't be nearly as deadly. But once school is back in session, in the Fall, which I think is a terrible idea BTW, 1.5M dead doesn't seem too outrageous now. Perhaps 2M. The numbers don't lie. 5% have been infected and 130K dead. Multiply X 13. That's the point at which they say we will have herd immunity.

    Our response as a country has been a pathetic combination of finger pointing, selfishness and incompetence.

    Yep.
    My sister lives in Houston, and I'm here in northeast TN, which is itchin' to catch up to TX. We have in this country a large population of entitled, uncaring, thoughtless, brats of widely varying ages. I have friends (30s & 40s), inlaws (60s), a 19-year-old sister-in-law, aunts and uncles (50s-70s) who are being so belligerent, selfish and ignorant. They are proof that unfortunately we can't just blame the lack of leadership of our government. Though they have certainly contributed greatly.

    I'm so sorry. I'd pick you up and bring you here. No cases for now till the tourists show up I'm guessing. Everyone wants to come to Queensland worst luck. Hoping we keep boarders closed. Doubt it'll happen. Yeah.. come up and give us Covid.

    You can open the borders but put restrictions in place. We expect tourists from next week, but they MUST have a test before traveling, and bring a COVID-free certificate to show at Immigration and Customs.


    I take it by the reference to Immigration and Customs that you are talking about international tourists.

    Australia, where mockchoc and I live, is a long way from accepting international tourists.

    I think mockchoc was talking more state borders , especially since she said ' come up and give us Covid ' ie come up from southern states NSW and Victoria where Covid is still very active.

    safe states here have closed their borders to other states - we may start opening to other safe states at some point.

    I would like to go on holiday to Whitsunday islands ( northern Queensland) - may be possible in a few months from South Australia, also safe state.

    Yes and I'll take you out to dinner or cook for you. I'm right near the Great Barrier Reef :)

    History will record the event as the great Mock Paper Chocolate Pudding Summit.

    ... and it will be amazing I promise. You can come too if you like. I've already been in the Swiss alps with a bunch of people I never met so all fine.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,003 Member
    edited July 2020
    Options
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    TonyB0588 wrote: »
    mockchoc wrote: »
    baconslave wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    The Tuscaloosa Alabama story -- students having Covid-19 parties, with a known infected person, putting money into a pot and the first one to officially "get it" gets the money -- makes me believe that we are the dumbest country in history. Sorry, there's no other way to look at it.

    Went out to another outdoor concert last night, much better band this time. AZ rates are soaring. Only states worse are TX and CA, where my kids live! We went out again last night to eat and ate on a patio again.

    I've resigned myself that there is no "back to normal" unless they find a vaccine for this. Or it could mutate so much that it won't be nearly as deadly. But once school is back in session, in the Fall, which I think is a terrible idea BTW, 1.5M dead doesn't seem too outrageous now. Perhaps 2M. The numbers don't lie. 5% have been infected and 130K dead. Multiply X 13. That's the point at which they say we will have herd immunity.

    Our response as a country has been a pathetic combination of finger pointing, selfishness and incompetence.

    Yep.
    My sister lives in Houston, and I'm here in northeast TN, which is itchin' to catch up to TX. We have in this country a large population of entitled, uncaring, thoughtless, brats of widely varying ages. I have friends (30s & 40s), inlaws (60s), a 19-year-old sister-in-law, aunts and uncles (50s-70s) who are being so belligerent, selfish and ignorant. They are proof that unfortunately we can't just blame the lack of leadership of our government. Though they have certainly contributed greatly.

    I'm so sorry. I'd pick you up and bring you here. No cases for now till the tourists show up I'm guessing. Everyone wants to come to Queensland worst luck. Hoping we keep boarders closed. Doubt it'll happen. Yeah.. come up and give us Covid.

    You can open the borders but put restrictions in place. We expect tourists from next week, but they MUST have a test before traveling, and bring a COVID-free certificate to show at Immigration and Customs.


    I take it by the reference to Immigration and Customs that you are talking about international tourists.

    Australia, where mockchoc and I live, is a long way from accepting international tourists.

    I think mockchoc was talking more state borders , especially since she said ' come up and give us Covid ' ie come up from southern states NSW and Victoria where Covid is still very active.

    safe states here have closed their borders to other states - we may start opening to other safe states at some point.

    I would like to go on holiday to Whitsunday islands ( northern Queensland) - may be possible in a few months from South Australia, also safe state.

    Yes and I'll take you out to dinner or cook for you. I'm right near the Great Barrier Reef :)

    History will record the event as the great Mock Paper Chocolate Pudding Summit.


    m0151.gif

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