Coronavirus prep
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With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
There are hundreds of millions of people in America. When random acts of violent idiocy get blasted on social media every couple of days it makes it seem like it's happening everywhere all the time. It's happening more than it should, but it's not rampant and widespread.8 -
I live next to Saddlebrooke, AZ, which aside from a few communities in Phoenix and The Villages in Florida (and perhaps Sun City Texas near Austin) is one of the largest 55 and over communities in the US. We have many friends in that community. They have had their first deaths there. Just like The Villages, lots of political difference and Anti-Mask, "I want my freedom" types. I was waiting for this to happen. It was like watching a car stuck on a RR Track stalled. You knew what was coming but no one seemed to be able to get through to these folks. Now, it's likely to get really ugly there.
The community managers/owners had closed down the restaurant and common areas and reportedly residents just started having dinner parties at houses (or at least those that thought this was all a big hoax).
And Saddlebrooke area is just one pocket of senior communities near me. We have like 100 of them. Sun City (Tucson) is right down the road from us as well. There are HIPAA laws, but trust me, these communities know what's going on in their little circles. We are getting play by play accounts on NextDoor.9 -
On another Covid front: Michigan's mask mandate has an exception for those who can't wear a mask for medical reasons, predictably leading mask-rebel people to lie about it, and stores/police departments to try to figure out a policy. Some of the stores, police departments, and general public are claiming that stores can't ask about medical conditions because of HIPAA, which, since stores are not "covered entities" under HIPAA, is not true. (I've also seen photos of signs at one store claiming they can't ask because of the 4th amendment. Huh? Stores are not bound by that, either.)
There's been discussion of whether ADA requires stores to allow people in the store without a mask if they medically can't wear one. I'm doubtful, and have seen at least one interpretation that health provisions can override ADA in a case like this, but I don't have the knowledge to evaluate that.
People are dumb and have no idea what HIPAA and the ADA actually do.
As for the ADA part, a store only has to make a reasonable accommodation. This does not mean they have to let someone without a mask into the store. Not wearing a mask would not be considered reasonable during a pandemic. Plus, the ADA does say that matters of public health can take precedence over said accommodations. So people saying they have to be allowed in without a mask because they have a disability are incorrect and can be asked to leave. Now, a store should then have a way to accommodate them with say curb side pickup, but the accommodation does not need to be whatever the person with the "disability" wants (disability in quotes because I know people are lying about it).
Also, as someone WITH a disability (PTSD) that is directly related to if they can wear a mask... people need to grow up. I've been doing it this whole time (minus a couple problem days). If I can do it, then the vast majority of the population can do it.
As for numbers here in Indiana:
662 new positive cases with 13 new deaths which means we are seeing the numbers increase again.
Total positive: 52,685
Total Tested: 578,409 (so 9.1% positive)
Total Deaths: 2,582
We are also seeing an increase in the number of Covid 19 ICU patients (also an increase in non Covid so our ICU bed availability is not the best due to that number).
Also, the 20-29 age range now has the most number of positive cases.12 -
At the local Kroger which is my regular grocery store, they have a person at the front and if you "forgot" your mask they give you one of those blue disposable ones.
I like the ADA explanation @Athijade - I would not want to be that lady at the door trying to enforce it, but I would hope there would be a big burly manager or security guy who could...it's messy. I mean, the other day (with the lady at the door) I saw a man and a lady who was much older in the store. They both had masks, around their necks. The man was carrying a dachshund in his arms and hanging it over the meat display case while he reached in. First...MASK! face! But then, what's with the doggy?
People. I don't really like them. 16 -
With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
I do think it's the whole Covid/lockdown/economy/stress thing that is making people crazier than normal, plus the mask thing being made into a partisan issue. Plus someone somewhere (here?) made the excellent point that some downplaying it/not masking is part of a defense mechanism/denial of the seriousness, so people masking/mask requirements poke holes in that some, which makes them angry in a way they wouldn't be but for the underlying fear.
(I looked up the mask requirement in KY and it does seem like the gov is really committed to it, despite some counties objecting, so I doubt he told WM not to bother. Seems more like an excuse from WM, as I suspected.)7 -
With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
@ReenieHJ I think COVID-19 may be both a direct and indirect factor in mask wearing resistance. Many of our USA forefathers resisted their former governments and came to the New World because they did not like being told what to do, when to do it and how much of it to do. Think Boston Tea Party.
COVID-19 is driving home the physical and mental health issues worldwide and I expect there are valid thoughts in the article below.
https://theconversation.com/personality-can-predict-whos-a-rule-follower-and-who-flouts-covid-19-social-distancing-guidelines-142364?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20July%2015%202020%20-%201678316181&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20July%2015%202020%20-%201678316181+Version+A+CID_a08185d0ee8a29b507853267e48ab641&utm_source=campaign_monitor_us&utm_term=Personality%20can%20predict%20whos%20a%20rule-follower%20and%20who%20flouts%20COVID-19%20social%20distancing%20guidelines1 -
With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
I do think it's the whole Covid/lockdown/economy/stress thing that is making people crazier than normal, plus the mask thing being made into a partisan issue. Plus someone somewhere (here?) made the excellent point that some downplaying it/not masking is part of a defense mechanism/denial of the seriousness, so people masking/mask requirements poke holes in that some, which makes them angry in a way they wouldn't be but for the underlying fear.
(I looked up the mask requirement in KY and it does seem like the gov is really committed to it, despite some counties objecting, so I doubt he told WM not to bother. Seems more like an excuse from WM, as I suspected.)
I just saw news that WM is going ro require customers to wear masks starting on Monday. I bet that the local workers refuse to enforce the corp. policy where I live. It's pretty bad here as far as nobody wants to wear a mask.11 -
Governor Stitt of Oklahoma has Covid-196
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With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
Since a couple of these things happened here (the recent one very local, the dollar store one in Flint only about an hour away), I'll speculate.
Anyone who would shoot or stab a person over something like this had some kind of pre-existing problem, or at least a vulnerability. The pandemic, for reasons psychological, economic, and ideological, has put people under stress. People with pre-existing problems, who have the capacity for inappropriate violence, are more likely to become violent under stress.
I have usually-medium-stable friends who are clearly acting out in various ways: Not violence at all, but quicker to anger, lashing out more on social media, that sort of thing. I'm not even remotely suggesting they'll become violent, just saying that I think more people than usual are acting out in a whole range of ways, because of increased stress. It certainly appears that culture-wide, substance abuse, domestic violence, and that sort of thing are at higher incidence now than usual.
Also, in the Flint case, though I don't know those involved as individuals, I'm strongly inclined to suspect honor-culture played a role. It's a thing we have here in Michigan, especially strongly so in some subcultures. (To be clear: This is not a veiled racial stereotype. Those old enough to remember the term "Michigan Militia" will know those guys were of my race, which is not the same as those involved in the Flint incident. The social segment they draw on - which includes some of my relatives - tends to be honor-culture oriented.) In these subcultures, people who are (i.e., feel) disrespected are more likely to lash out, as a point of honor. Not to do so is to be a coward (many of them would use the p-word, in my experience). Among mainstream, well-adjusted people, this stops short of violence over trivia, but at extremes, among less stable people, that kind of subculture makes interpersonal violence a little more likely.
Given that this honor-culture sort of thing isn't uncommon here, I won't be surprised if it turns out to have been relevant to the very recent local case as well. (But really, honor culture or no, a 43-year-old who stabs a 77-year-old over this kind of argument clearly has more problems than just hair-trigger reactive subculture.)
The incidences of actual public violence are very, very small, in a sea of millions under stress. (Domestic violence is probably statistically more common than we'd like to think, but not "news".) Grumbling about masks, even argument or harsh words, are doubtless more common, but extremes of even that are being reported as "news", which would suggest to me that severe examples are not all that common: They're exceptional enough to report.
Theoretical or ideological opposition to masks is (in my circle) somewhat common, but (again, my circle) distinctly a minority thing . . . even among the segment of friends (mine) who . . . are of a general political bent, let's say, who might be expected to be most opposed to mask requirements. There are quite a few advocating wearing masks, while railing against government requirements to wear them. (The shut-down for health vs. public health balance is more split purely based on political/ideological orientation, in my circle, than the mask/no-mask behavioral thing. Some who oppose continuing shutdowns do support masking as a way to make opening up safer.)
In that last paragraph, though I already said it several times: Observation of people I personally know, not a scientifically conducted poll. Personal impressions.
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With the number of people assaulting other people over a seemingly simple mask issue, you have to wonder if it's Covid that's making them crazy or if they were already there. And why does it seem there are many less issues concerning masks everywhere except in America? Well, there was that very tragic bus driver incident in France.
There are hundreds of millions of people in America. When random acts of violent idiocy get blasted on social media every couple of days it makes it seem like it's happening everywhere all the time. It's happening more than it should, but it's not rampant and widespread.
Well said. A few random incidents with mask enforcement that ended in tragedy is certainly no reason to not enforce mask wearing.
For some time now, my Walmart here in Massachusetts has had a Black Friday-like barrier in front of the entrance with signs periodically telling people masks are mandatory. There is an employee stationed there. He used to be the employee checking receipts on the way out. I've never heard him have to tell people to put on a mask because for whatever reason, we all got the memo here. And read it. And decided it was in our best interests to comply.
I lived in Florida from 2004 - 2011 and am SO glad I'm no longer there.10 -
Theoretical or ideological opposition to masks is (in my circle) somewhat common, but (again, my circle) distinctly a minority thing . . . even among the segment of friends (mine) who . . . are of a general political bent, let's say, who might be expected to be most opposed to mask requirements. There are quite a few advocating wearing masks, while railing against government requirements to wear them. (The shut-down for health vs. public health balance is more split purely based on political/ideological orientation, in my circle, than the mask/no-mask behavioral thing. Some who oppose continuing shutdowns do support masking as a way to make opening up safer.)
In that last paragraph, though I already said it several times: Observation of people I personally know, not a scientifically conducted poll. Personal impressions.
Here (north side of Chicago, neighborhood of a particular political bent), I don't really see any theoretical/ideological opposition to masks (with a very few exceptions). I do see arguments, often pushback, against people complaining on social media about people not wearing them outside -- the counter, which I often agree with, although I always wear them outside, is that one can socially distance without trouble most of the time outside. I think some of the pushback is more due to the attempted shaming or endless new threads about this, but I also see a lot of more irritable than normal behavior on social media (such as Nextdoor) in general, which goes along with some of what you said.
What I do see a lot of, especially when driving around or through neighborhoods that have a generally younger population (such as West Loop) are lots of people not wearing masks despite not social distancing. I see some of that in all neighborhoods. Here, I'm lucky enough that indoors masks seem to be enforced (or honored) relatively well, but I think what I'm seeing is less ideological (although I do think it's that a lot of places elsewhere in the country), but either the lack of concern often common to the young or simply people being so tired of all this and it feeling like it's not ending soon. The worrisome part to me is less people being maskless outdoors as that I think it demonstrates a willingness to relax care that has been occurring in restaurants and bars too -- especially by the young, again -- and is why we have had an uptick of cases and those especially among the 20-29 group.6 -
moonangel12 wrote: »This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment
The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.
That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.
This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!3 -
I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871
Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/
Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?
I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.
I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871
Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/
Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?
I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.
I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.
In that first story, it says that the father of one of the boys suspects that it was the mask, but that he refused an autopsy. We don't know enough to conclude that the masks are to blame. It's not unheard of for previously healthy young people to die suddenly during activity due to undiagnosed heart conditions. It's awful and tragic, but it happens even to people without masks.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871
Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/
Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?
I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.
I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.
In that first story, it says that the father of one of the boys suspects that it was the mask, but that he refused an autopsy. We don't know enough to conclude that the masks are to blame. It's not unheard of for previously healthy young people to die suddenly during activity due to undiagnosed heart conditions. It's awful and tragic, but it happens even to people without masks.
There were two boys, days apart.
And the man? Healthy adult joggers routinely get collapsed lungs?3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »I get that they were running, but there are lots of reasons a person would need to breathe heavy.
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/two-schoolboys-collapse-and-die-just-six-days-apart-in-china-while-wearing-face-masks-c-1017871
Those kids just DIED from mask usage. Everyone says it is a lie that you can die from face masks, it isn't true. Those were kids.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/15/wuhan-man-suffers-collapsed-running-while-running-with-face-mask/
Again, I know they are recommended for exercise, but if it is capable of doing this to a person, you want to assure me it is safe and necessary?
I get out of breath in my mask going up the stairs or carrying my 2-year-old to the bathroom, both are not excessively difficult, but they do cause me to strain against my mask for air.
I follow local laws and regulations. I wear a mask when it is required of me. But I won't sit here and agree with people that it's harmless and safe and appropriate for all.
In that first story, it says that the father of one of the boys suspects that it was the mask, but that he refused an autopsy. We don't know enough to conclude that the masks are to blame. It's not unheard of for previously healthy young people to die suddenly during activity due to undiagnosed heart conditions. It's awful and tragic, but it happens even to people without masks.
There were two boys, days apart.
And the man? Healthy adult joggers routinely get collapsed lungs?
I'll be honest -- after the flimsy reasoning in the first story, I didn't check out the second. Yes, there were two boys that died. Autopsies were not done. It may be that masks are harmful while running, but this isn't the evidence that shows that (and in the US, people who are running outdoors are exempt from mask orders).12 -
ExistingFish wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment
The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.
That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.
This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!
@ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.2 -
And then we have a successful competitive runner who has asthma and allergies, and wears a mask to filter out pollen.
https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/what_in_the_world_is_galen_rup.html[url][/url]10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment
The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.
That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.
This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!
@ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.
I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.
My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.
I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.4 -
And then we have a successful competitive runner who has asthma and allergies, and wears a mask to filter out pollen.
https://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/2011/06/what_in_the_world_is_galen_rup.html[url][/url]
Pollen particles are quite large (droplet size) - I have good money his mask is designed to filter pollen, not down to the filtration level that surgical masks are or that covid masks are recommended to be.0 -
ExistingFish wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment
The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.
That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.
This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!
@ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.
I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.
My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.
I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.
And it’s not just medical personnel. My husband’s company provides packaging for hygiene goods - 12 hour shifts and they are required to wear a surgical mask (no n95) the entire time. Add in safety glasses that fog up (makes its own safety hazard), and then communication with earplugs, machinery, and masks muffling voices (also covering lips so no chance to read them) and it’s challenging. They have invested in communication equipment for on the floor, and he’s trying to find the balance of how strict to be with mask compliance (the guy with his nose peeking out while he is working alone, well away from anyone else? Getting easier for him to let that slide.)3 -
https://zerohedge.com/political/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-induced-adverse-reactions-more-half-trial-participants
Finally we are getting in some early returns from a COVID-19 vaccine trial so over the next couple years we can expect the same for the many potential vaccines in the pipeline. Just the fact trails have started should be good for the mental health of millions.4 -
moonangel12 wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »moonangel12 wrote: »This article has a great visual for why we should wear masks. Petri dishes!
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/masks-dont-reduce-your-oxygen-levels-doctor-debunks-facial-covering-claim-in-experiment
The friend I walk with had settled down this week, but did say her husband found pictures online showing the size of the virus vs. standard weave of a fabric mask and was wondering what the point of wearing masks was since it could could obviously fit through... that the masks couldn’t block it at all. Had to explain that the mask doesn’t block the virus, it just keeps your droplets from spreading further than without it.
That article is ridiculous, it isn't when you first put it on, it's after hours of wear that it reduces your oxygen level.
This study has it's limitations, but it shows a reduction in blood oxygen and increase in pulse rate after 1 hour of surgical mask wear, especially for those over 35. It was on surgeons. It admittedly has limitations, but I'd put more stock in this limited study that than anecdotal "two minutes" in each mask example.
http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf
I've seen several of those "I put on ___ masks and look at my pulse ox! except...they don't wear them for an 8-hour or 12-hour shift. They wear them for two or five minutes. Sitting. And look how the public eats it up!
@ExistingFish thanks for sharing the piece wearing masks for hours at a time impacts Oxygen levels in a negative way. I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact. A dash into WM is a different story because it may help reduce the spread in case of major coughing fit but maybe even more it reduces the risk of pushing emotionally stressed out people into causing others physical harm in this cracking mental health pandemic.
I don't think Walmart or Kroger or Target employees are given information about the impact of long term mask-wearing before their 8-hour shifts. I mean they probably take them off for breaks and lunch, but still.
My sister is in healthcare and has to wear an N95 for her 12-hour shift, put it in a baggy, and wear it again the next day. Usually with a cloth mask over it, which makes it even harder to breathe.
I guess you mean laypeople aren't wearing them all day, but employees in direct contact with the public are.
And it’s not just medical personnel. My husband’s company provides packaging for hygiene goods - 12 hour shifts and they are required to wear a surgical mask (no n95) the entire time. Add in safety glasses that fog up (makes its own safety hazard), and then communication with earplugs, machinery, and masks muffling voices (also covering lips so no chance to read them) and it’s challenging. They have invested in communication equipment for on the floor, and he’s trying to find the balance of how strict to be with mask compliance (the guy with his nose peeking out while he is working alone, well away from anyone else? Getting easier for him to let that slide.)
In our state, they are only required when social distance cannot be practiced. That guy working alone? He's alone. I understand company policy may be stricter, but what is the point if you aren't around other people?4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.
(1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.
(2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)
(3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.
(4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.
(1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.
(2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)
(3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.
(4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.
You know the research did not say they were dangerous only Oxygen levels dropped to a degree and heart rate increased after a few hours when under the stress of work.
Looks like the French are not pro maskers.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/frances-macron-wife-confronted-by-protesters-on-bastille-day/2 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »So I see NY and NJ are requiring people coming in from 19 states to self quarantine or face fines.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-and-new-jersey-expand-list-of-states-that-trigger-quarantine-orders-for-travelers/ar-BB16ruw6?ocid=ientp
Does anyone know how they possibly track this for automobile travel?
Illinois also now has this requirement...but there is no way to track or enforce it, so they are relying on the "honor system".
I saw the City of Chicago has such a rule, not the rest of the state though, unless it just came out today (a search doesn't pull it up though). Was thinking of visiting our son in TX and just staying around his house. He and his girlfriend have been taking this pretty seriously.
You are correct, my mistake. Sometimes us Chicagoans forget that there is a "rest of the state" outside of the city.
Are you sure about that? Not that the rule doesn't apply outside Chicago, but that there is a "rest of the state" outside Chicago 😜3 -
I wear cloth masks at work, started with disposables, for 8-10 hours, depending on how much work there is. And while company policy allows me to take it off at my desk when nobody is within 6 feet, I keep it on except to take a drink or when I eat lunch (I go to my car for lunch). I haven't had any issues breathing through a mask for hours on end.17
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I do not think there is anyone here that wears a surgical for 8-12 hour shifts that did not already know that fact.
(1) I've not heard anyone in the group of people who wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts claiming they are dangerous. If they were, we would have heard about that before now, as that type of usage isn't COVID-specific, but job-specific. Specifically, health care workers.
(2) State or local mask laws don't require people who wouldn't otherwise have to wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts to do so. They would require people in some service jobs to wear masks of some sort when on duty. (They have breaks.)
(3) The people complaining about masks -- and most of the rest of us -- do not wear surgical masks for 8-12 hour shifts. We wear masks (including homemade ones, it's not actually that easy to get surgical ones as they are still being reserved for health care workers) for shorter periods of time when in stores or when required on our jobs or when outside in a situation where social distancing is not possible. Pretty much all the people who have had fits about wearing masks are being asked to wear them when in a store they are in briefly.
(4) Most people who work retail I've heard from are worried about their own health (and typically would like to have the ability to wear the most effective masks, but often can't), so appreciate it when they are able to do so, and especially when customers wear them too.
My sister is concerned the mask policy and usage puts her at risk. She's in healthcare. She said she feels she should be able to take her mask off between patients (for breathing) and get clean ones for each patient like she should. She is dictated by her job. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they aren't there - most of them probably aren't complaining. It doesn't mean they are concerned.
3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I wear cloth masks at work, started with disposables, for 8-10 hours, depending on how much work there is. And while company policy allows me to take it off at my desk when nobody is within 6 feet, I keep it on except to take a drink or when I eat lunch (I go to my car for lunch). I haven't had any issues breathing through a mask for hours on end.
The keyword here - desk. You sit for work.
I wondered why I saw all the stockers at Kroger with their masks pushed down, I understand it now.
I have difficulty breathing when I have to go upstairs. I have healthy lungs. By difficulty, I mean I'm sucking the mask into my mouth trying to get air faster than it will allow. I can't imagine working in a warehouse doing physical labor and wearing a mask. I had to carry my 2-year-old to the bathroom last Sunday at church and I had difficulty breathing through my 2-layer cotton mask.3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I wear cloth masks at work, started with disposables, for 8-10 hours, depending on how much work there is. And while company policy allows me to take it off at my desk when nobody is within 6 feet, I keep it on except to take a drink or when I eat lunch (I go to my car for lunch). I haven't had any issues breathing through a mask for hours on end.
The keyword here - desk. You sit for work.
I wondered why I saw all the stockers at Kroger with their masks pushed down, I understand it now.
I have difficulty breathing when I have to go upstairs. I have healthy lungs. By difficulty, I mean I'm sucking the mask into my mouth trying to get air faster than it will allow. I can't imagine working in a warehouse doing physical labor and wearing a mask. I had to carry my 2-year-old to the bathroom last Sunday at church and I had difficulty breathing through my 2-layer cotton mask.
I do keep the mask on when I go up / down stairs (I'm on the 2nd floor of 2). Sure, it only happens roughly 5-10 times in a typical day, but it doesn't seem to affect my breathing whatsoever.
I don't run with a mask these days and I rarely get close to anyone else outside anyway. But early on, I did run with a mask and it was slightly more difficult to breathe while running. Walking around stores, it isn't enough difference to even notice.7
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