Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
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COVID pandemic has been interesting as regards recomp - I'm an incidental recomper in line with exercise rather than exercising to change my body comp.
Start of lockdown and my gym closed, quickly realised home training with bodyweight and dumbbells simply bored me to death so decided to become a more serious cyclist and neglect my strength training.
Extra volume and intensity of cycling resulted in noticable growth in quad circumference (I've always responded well to high volume) but I also lost some upper body muscle and quite a bit of strength.
With gym reopening in July I managed to keep up the cycling but resumed weight training. Initially bench press was down from 100kg on my 60th birthday in February to just 60kg but that rapidly increased as my CNS woke up plus simply getting used to the feeling of heavy lifting again.
Two months on I'm back to 95kg bench press with noticable growth in arms and shoulders plus more definition - I've got my "shoulder dimples" back!
Upper body now almost back to where I was, legs bigger and less stomach fat so although it's been a bumpy road I'm in an OK place.
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lemongirlbc wrote: »Hi! I haven't done sports or worked out seriously in my life. I haven't stepped into a gym since about 13 years ago. I've been extremely sedentary to the point of getting overweight and having health problems. So for my 34th anniversary I've decided to change my life style. I've started working out at home consistently, cleaned my diet, ate with a deficit (25% I suppose, if I really have a TDEE of 2000 kcal... this is another issue 'cause the online calculators give me a range of 1700 to 2300 kcal), ate a higher intake of protein (2g/kg) and did 90% strength training. I've lost about 10 kg and I am at ideal weight (57 kg at 168cm) since the beginning of July.
The next step is to find my real TDEE. As in the last week of weight lose I had an intake of 1500 kcal, I've started to gradually increase my intake. I am currently at 1700 kcal but I need a longer period or time to evaluate my body's reaction. At 1600 kcal I got down to 56.4kg. After four days of eating 1700 kcal, I am at 57.2 kg.
I recall that during weight loss, when I've upped my intake to 1500 kcal that I was full ALL the time and now, eating more and nothing else changed but I am hungry very often. I wonder if it can be due to increased muscle mass and even though I've gained a bit, 1700 kcal is not my actual TDEE? I hope it's closer to 2000 cause I'm sooo hungry. I should mention that I have a desk job, so my life style is still sedentary if I take the workouts out of the discussion.
Ok... to get to the point. I want to remain around this weight and do a body recomp. I know it's years of work but as I am a first timer, I know I'll have results faster than others. I already achieved things that I've never thought I could like 33 push-ups/set (couldn't do one correct knee push-up in January), muscle definition on my arms and back, areas where I've always had lots of flabby fat.
I have no idea my BF% because I can't find a DEXA scan in this city but according to measurements I have 23.26% and according to the calipers 21%.
I don't know if I should increase my calories to 1800 next week or not but given how I generally feel, I think my body needs fuel. I already drink 2-3L of water per day, so it's not thirst, I eat 3 main meals and two snacks, exercise an average of 1hx5days a week and my macros are 40% carbs, 28% proteins, 32% fat (used to be 40/30/30 until two days ago).
I don't want to bulk (and eat with a lot of surplus) but I do want to gain some muscle mass and I don't care if that means the scale going up. I've measured today and even though the scale is the same as 10 days ago, I've lost 1cm off the belly and booty, so I suppose that I've put on a bit of muscle.
Honestly, I'm a bit lost, so any constructive advice will be appreciated. Thanks!
Are you following any particular lifting program? It sounds like you are just doing your own thing at home, so I would suggest finding a good, established, progressive lifting program to start with. And I think you are on the right track with your calories, you appear to be at a great starting point for a recomp. Up your calories a bit, and see how you go - adjust as needed. If you find you are losing weight and not gaining much in terms of strength, up your calories a bit. If you are starting to gain weight, lower them a bit. Determining calories burned isn't an exact science unfortunately, and your exact burn will in fact change from day to day, so pick a number (1800-2000 sounds reasonable for your current weight), give it 4-6 weeks to judge how you are actually tracking on that amount, and adjust as needed.
You made some great progress in these photos! Way to go!
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COVID pandemic has been interesting as regards recomp - I'm an incidental recomper in line with exercise rather than exercising to change my body comp.
Start of lockdown and my gym closed, quickly realised home training with bodyweight and dumbbells simply bored me to death so decided to become a more serious cyclist and neglect my strength training.
Extra volume and intensity of cycling resulted in noticable growth in quad circumference (I've always responded well to high volume) but I also lost some upper body muscle and quite a bit of strength.
With gym reopening in July I managed to keep up the cycling but resumed weight training. Initially bench press was down from 100kg on my 60th birthday in February to just 60kg but that rapidly increased as my CNS woke up plus simply getting used to the feeling of heavy lifting again.
Two months on I'm back to 95kg bench press with noticable growth in arms and shoulders plus more definition - I've got my "shoulder dimples" back!
Upper body now almost back to where I was, legs bigger and less stomach fat so although it's been a bumpy road I'm in an OK place.
Same here. After COVID, my lifts dropped dramatically but in a few months I’ve recovered most of my strength back!
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I don’t have up to date progress pics but according to the boditrax machine, I managed to gain 3.5 kg muscle and drop 5 per cent body fat in a year. And I know these machines are not the greatest. But still, some progress. Same weight.
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@cupcakesandproteinshakes
Great results - well done.
My gym has a Boditrax unit too and I find it pretty reasonable for a trend over time if used same time of day / same fed or fasted state.1 -
FitForL1fe wrote: »Hadabetter wrote: »And when your body needs protein it looks first for amino acids circulating in the blood stream. Failing that, it will get the protein it needs to maintain/repair your vital organs from your existing muscle mass. This will kill any efforts at body recomp. So your protein intake should be spread throughout the day in 3-4 roughly equal doses to ensure that you always have those amino acids available to your body.
For this reason body recomposition is not compatible with intermittent fasting.
sigh now I need to stop being a *kitten* and buy some casein
Sucks for those of us who are allergic to casein
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What is casein? Isn't that the stuff in like jalapenos that make them spicy? Hey do they sell that in pill form because I hear that hot stuff speeds up your metabolism and I can't really have much of that because of my ulcers.
Casein is the naturally occurring protein that is in dairy. Its not manufactured and only available in protein powder form. It already exists. The powder just isolates it. Casein is one reason someone might be allergic to milk, if it isnt lactose intolerance.1 -
FitForL1fe wrote: »Hadabetter wrote: »And when your body needs protein it looks first for amino acids circulating in the blood stream. Failing that, it will get the protein it needs to maintain/repair your vital organs from your existing muscle mass. This will kill any efforts at body recomp. So your protein intake should be spread throughout the day in 3-4 roughly equal doses to ensure that you always have those amino acids available to your body.
For this reason body recomposition is not compatible with intermittent fasting.
sigh now I need to stop being a *kitten* and buy some casein
Sucks for those of us who are allergic to casein
I think I may be. How. did you find out?0 -
I thought I'd throw in a little 2 cents from an article I wrote recently, just for those who are trawling through the pages and want to find some evidence to support Body Recomposition!
Sometimes it may be hard to see the finish line, so knowing that it is a scientifically backed training and dieting concept might help you regain your motivation and get back on track.
If you are wondering if you are capable of Body Recompositioning, check out the following study-backed categories and see if you fall into any of them:
Overweight (A lil thicc)
If you have significant extra fat, then by training and eating at a deficit you will not only lose fat but build muscle at the same time. This is the result of the excess fat being used as energy to fuel the muscle building process.
A 12-week study by Demling and DeSanti aimed to analyse the effects of a caloric deficit and resistance training in overweight (26% body fat) police officers. The results showed a total fat loss of 9.3 lbs and gained 8.8 lbs fat free mass over those 12 weeks.
Beginner/Novice Lifter (Get them Noob Gains!)
Treuth et al. examined the “effects of strength training on total and regional body composition in older men.” These untrained individuals gained 2kg on average in fat-free mass, while losing 2kg of fat mass over 16 weeks.
Nindl et al. focused on “Regional body composition changes in women after 6 months of periodized physical training.” They found that the untrained women had a 2.2% increase in lean body mass and a 10% decrease in fat mass.
Palumbo et al. researched the “Effect of combined resistance and endurance exercise training on fat loss.” The results showed a 1.2kg gain in Lean Body Mass, and a loss of 1.7kg to 2kg in fat mass.
Detrained Athlete
Zemski et al. note a substantial gain in Fat Free Mass (1.8kg increase) with a significant reduction in Fat Mass (-2.2kg) in elite Rugby players who are coming off a 4 week detraining block.
Ogasawara et al. noted similar findings that individuals who experienced periods of detraining are able to make the same strength gains as those who continuously train. This suggests that the body adapts to training stimulus incredibly quickly and be primed for muscle growth after a period of detraining.
Enhanced/Steroid Users
This category goes without saying, and is an area I am not as familiar with. If you are taking steroids, testosterone replacement, fat burners or some combination of all three, your body will respond accordingly. Feel free to do the research on this one yourself if you’re interested.
If you look at any Body Recomposition articles, these are the four types of trainee that are most suited to gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time.
However, it’s 2021 and the idea of Body Recomposition has been studied for over 20 years. One such researcher and Body Recomposition expert is Chris Barakat, who has become somewhat of an popular figure in the area of Body Recomposition. It is his belief that there is a fifth type of trainee that can benefit:
The “Sub-Optimally Trained Athlete”
Cribb et al. researched the effect of whey protein on trained individuals and found they gained 1.3 kg of Lean Body Mass, minimal change in Fat Mass, and added 20 kg to their Bench Press.
Mackenzie-Shalders et al. in a study of protein distribution in Elite Rugby Players preseason training found 2.7 kg increase in Lean Body Mass over 12 weeks and lost roughly 2 kg of fat.
Rauch et al. Studied collegiate female volleyball players entering into a highly controlled power-training block. The players gained on average 2.7 kg of Lean Body Mass, and lost 2.7 kg of Fat Mass.
So if you're reading this in 2021 with some new Fitness or Body Recomp goals but aren't sure if it's right for you, hopefully this will help you make up your mind!
- Sean
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So, no, I did not maintain my weight while slowly recomping but I did a cut to 180 and then bulked back to 215 pounds. I do have some posts in this thread where I did do that with great results, but this time I did a bulk since about August to a couple of weeks ago. Both of these pictures are me at the same body weight. The scale is just one tool. I am now cutting to see if how much muscle I can hang onto. I'm hoping to be just as lean but 5+ pounds heavier come this summer.
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I started trying to lose weight in September at 180kg and dropped down to 150kg by new years but eating less and lots of cardio. I mainly did cardio and not much weights, I got pretty depressed at how much strength I lost. At 180kg I could bench press 130, deadlift 180kg, and squat 150kg. At 150kg I could barely bench 70, DL 100kg, and squat 80kg.
So I started a weight lifting plan, iv made some gains while still losing weight. I'm almost down to 130kg, can deadlift 150kg, squat 90kg, and bench 90kg. This isn't huge by any means but at least I'm retaining and gaining a little strength while losing significant weight.
Iv still got a chunk of weight to lose, hopefully, I can keep my strength maybe even get stronger.1 -
CameronWhittaker wrote: »I started trying to lose weight in September at 180kg and dropped down to 150kg by new years but eating less and lots of cardio. I mainly did cardio and not much weights, I got pretty depressed at how much strength I lost. At 180kg I could bench press 130, deadlift 180kg, and squat 150kg. At 150kg I could barely bench 70, DL 100kg, and squat 80kg.
So I started a weight lifting plan, iv made some gains while still losing weight. I'm almost down to 130kg, can deadlift 150kg, squat 90kg, and bench 90kg. This isn't huge by any means but at least I'm retaining and gaining a little strength while losing significant weight.
Iv still got a chunk of weight to lose, hopefully, I can keep my strength maybe even get stronger.
Probably should recognize that your prior plan actually made it worse than you seem to realize.
Perhaps to realize fast loss pace is not good.
You lost weight off your body too.
If you still squated and deadlifted exactly the same after you lost 30 kg and it was max - you lost 30 kg of strength in those 2 lifts, right?
Because of not lifting the extra bodyweight now.
Ya, it gets ugly quick when an extreme diet is done.
Even with enough protein and strength training - if you aren't keeping a reasonable deficit - say goodbye to some muscle.
Your strength is holding steady if you are replacing on the bar what you lose on the body, for the lifts that includes the body anyway.
Good job with the bench, and wanting to catch it before it got worse in general.
Some don't and wonder where it all went.5 -
This is all so helpful, so glad I found this thread. I was in prep for a BB show last year and switched over to a bulking/building phase in since May 2020 (when my show was canceled bc of Covid). I hit the top of my bulk in Sep and have maintained since. In prep I followed my coaches macro plan, hit my protein targets and never missed a lift day, but I was so weak, depleted and didn’t look very defined at all (picture on the left). I’m not sure if a meal plan would serve me better next prep, maybe I just didn’t get lean enough, I had been in a deficit at that point for years or maybe I just didn’t have enough of a base. I start my cut again in May but am so scared I’ll lose everything I’ve built, most specifically my strength. In terms of a reasonable deficit to retain strength I would aim for .5 lb loss a week, but to hit a 20 lb loss that would take me 40ish weeks, isn’t being in a deficit that long also harmful when trying to retain? Sorry for the length, I’m already stressed about my upcoming cut 🤣
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jennacole12 wrote: »I start my cut again in May but am so scared I’ll lose everything I’ve built, most specifically my strength. In terms of a reasonable deficit to retain strength I would aim for .5 lb loss a week, but to hit a 20 lb loss that would take me 40ish weeks, isn’t being in a deficit that long also harmful when trying to retain? Sorry for the length, I’m already stressed about my upcoming cut 🤣
Being in a reasonable deficit for a long time is not harmful, that's the point of reasonable, it's not the stress on the body unreasonable would be.
You could have 5 lbs @ 1 lb weekly and be reasonable, until moving to 0.5 lb weekly.
Might benefit from a 1 week diet break at 10 lbs left, and 5 lbs left.
To retain strength - don't drop the weight on the bar.
And increase the weight on the bar for squats & deadlifts by the amount lost off the body.
You'll have to cut frequency or duration, but keep the intensity - ie weight on the bar.
Drop sets, and/or reps, to keep the intensity just as difficult.
Obviously don't expect increases during a deficit, wrong time to increase everything in a diet.
But can maintain.
Weight training to do during fat loss - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html
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jennacole12 wrote: »I start my cut again in May but am so scared I’ll lose everything I’ve built, most specifically my strength. In terms of a reasonable deficit to retain strength I would aim for .5 lb loss a week, but to hit a 20 lb loss that would take me 40ish weeks, isn’t being in a deficit that long also harmful when trying to retain? Sorry for the length, I’m already stressed about my upcoming cut 🤣
Being in a reasonable deficit for a long time is not harmful, that's the point of reasonable, it's not the stress on the body unreasonable would be.
You could have 5 lbs @ 1 lb weekly and be reasonable, until moving to 0.5 lb weekly.
Might benefit from a 1 week diet break at 10 lbs left, and 5 lbs left.
To retain strength - don't drop the weight on the bar.
And increase the weight on the bar for squats & deadlifts by the amount lost off the body.
You'll have to cut frequency or duration, but keep the intensity - ie weight on the bar.
Drop sets, and/or reps, to keep the intensity just as difficult.
Obviously don't expect increases during a deficit, wrong time to increase everything in a diet.
But can maintain.
Weight training to do during fat loss - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html
Thank you so much! I just read the whole thing and found it very helpful, although I may need to read it a few more times to make sure I pulled everything, there’s a lot of info in there. And by cut frequency or duration you mean.... I’d essentially squat the same weight, as my standard working set, but rather than 5 sets of 5 or whatever.... I may have to cut down to 3 sets of 5?0 -
See if this posts0
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Strange - I've got a post that is pretty simple getting hit by a MFP front end keyword blocker.
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As that article mentions, you can drop 2/3 combined of frequency and volume to maintain, and do something that will increase your daily calorie burn more than lifting in the saved time, so then a reasonable deficit allows you to eat more. That's the metabolic training he references and why.
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Can't get rest of the post showing the math on what 2/3 of 5x5 is.
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jennacole12 wrote: »I start my cut again in May but am so scared I’ll lose everything I’ve built, most specifically my strength. In terms of a reasonable deficit to retain strength I would aim for .5 lb loss a week, but to hit a 20 lb loss that would take me 40ish weeks, isn’t being in a deficit that long also harmful when trying to retain? Sorry for the length, I’m already stressed about my upcoming cut 🤣
If you want to get lean enough for a BB show/competition, you will lose strength, no doubt about it, you cannot expect to want to BB, powerlift and do strength type sports at the same time...on a serious fat loss BB depletion phase you will be as weak as....or are you just cutting weight/fat for a weight class competition in strength sports? I gain/maintain strength on most cuts, but I am a strength athlete, not a BB...1 -
Moving this thread up as some people are looking for it. Great thread!3
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Just found this thread yesterday after a search on building muscle. tremendous amount of info, just started reading through the thread, going to take me a couple of weeks at least. I see it has slowed down recently, but glad I found it. Still a lot I don't understand, but will hopefully pick up along the way. I assume most people have achieved their goals over time. hope there are a few just starting this journey that will tag along. Within 10 lbs of goal weight after 4 months, started weights last month. From what I read to date, appears I was on transition to recomp and did not know it. Body fat still over 20%, muscle mass at 75% according to scales. Eating at a 500 calorie deficit,(1500 total) not adding back in earned spent calories due to walking. Weights 3 times per week and just adjusted up calories by 250 on those days only today. Will see if my weight loss continues by doing this.3
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bump1
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@Silvergrizz - I am just starting to look into body recomposition, and was also happy to stumble across so much good information in one place.
I bookmarked this page a few weeks ago but haven’t developed a solid plan yet. Recently, I started working with a personal trainer for 30 minutes twice a week, which involves doing a lot of exercises using resistance bands and my body weight. So, I’m thinking about adding a couple of heavier weight trading days. I’m going to talk with the trainer tomorrow to get some ideas.
It sounds as though you have a consistent routine underway. Good for you and congratulations on your progress!1 -
Body recomp started today very slight calorie deficit hoping to lose some fat and retain as much muscle as possible6
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I'm 5 lbs away from my goal, and after a lot of reading and thinking about where I'd like to end up, here I am. Bumping my calories a bit is the easy part, but I'm somewhat limited in terms of access to workout equipment so I might have to get creative as things progress. I'm starting from not super strong so I'm good for now though. Looking forward to learning.3
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Morning, Thought everyone had lost interest in this thread, glad to see a few others with an interest. Thought I would update my progress. Within 3.5 lbs of goal weight now. I was increasing my walking every couple of weeks to the point I was up to about 8 miles per day everyday. I found myself getting more fatigued each day and realized my calorie deficit was reaching over 1500 per day. Adjusted myfitnesspal to start adding exercise calories back into the mix, but keeping a base 500 calorie deficit for the day. Energy increased substantially, felt much better. Body fat hovers between 19 and 20%, while muscle mass is hovering around 75%. Purchased a used Bowflex a couple of weeks ago and started utilizing it versus the weights. Enjoying it much more than weights. did a reset in myfitnesspal on goals and myfitnesspal adjusted base calories to 1650 per day and I upped it 1900 per day on the 3 days I workout, Mon, Wed, Friday. Also made a slight adjustment in Macros to bring carbs back to 40% and Fat and Protein at 30%. Usually manage to stay within 2-3% of goals. Still find it difficult to get enough water in each day, but notice on days I do manage to get 8 glasses a day, I seem to get a better sleep.6
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So in the 9 days since my first post I increased my calories by 150/ day to leave a 100 calorie deficit for those last 5 lbs to slowly take care of themselves. I increased the weight I was lifting. And I somehow accidentally lost 3 lbs, which is a fair bit more than my usual range of water weight fluctuation. I have no idea what my body is doing!
I gained the weight by overeating chips - like half to three quarters of a bag at a time most days, along with sensible portions of home-cooked healthy meals. Which explains why I'm 5'6", apparently 132 lbs now, and 27-29% body fat. Going by several photo scales since I don't have access to any other way of measuring, but it's pretty consistent between all of them. I'm satiated by protein, so now I need to figure out how to add back the calories in a healthier way to hopefully make my way to 20-23ish% bf with more muscle replacing it. I guess it's time to start experimenting!5 -
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Thanks for posting! I'd heard about this today since I'm a BBB member, but hadn't gotten the chance to watch it yet.1
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