Coronavirus prep
Replies
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@lynn_glenmont and @T1DCarnivoreRunner
I get both your positions, I brought it up initially as a "hmmmm" from something I remembered hearing last week. My giving the link and its references today was just to provide where I encountered it since there actually seemed to be interest in discussion its possible validity. At this point in time, I do not have the background to read that study (reference #2). Did either of you have better luck? I would have had to sit with a dictionary all day to even attempt it. The only comments I can add to this discussion are that a study was actually done, a doctor bothered to read and reference it (she had plenty to talk about without referencing it), and then an organization chose to write and article on the paper after reading it. It very well could be a case of garbage in garbage out, but it is worth a pause to see if there is anything of value in that study. I hope someone can actually read it!
My understanding is that they created models of the virus and then tried to figure out how to make antibodies that circumvent the spike proteins. It doesn't sound like they had success, but still learned more about the structure of the virus and the spike proteins. Did you understand something different?2 -
@lynn_glenmont and @T1DCarnivoreRunner
I get both your positions, I brought it up initially as a "hmmmm" from something I remembered hearing last week. My giving the link and its references today was just to provide where I encountered it since there actually seemed to be interest in discussion its possible validity. At this point in time, I do not have the background to read that study (reference #2). Did either of you have better luck? I would have had to sit with a dictionary all day to even attempt it. The only comments I can add to this discussion are that a study was actually done, a doctor bothered to read and reference it (she had plenty to talk about without referencing it), and then an organization chose to write and article on the paper after reading it. It very well could be a case of garbage in garbage out, but it is worth a pause to see if there is anything of value in that study. I hope someone can actually read it!
Or, as is often the case in popularizing of scientific studies, it could very well be a case of a reasonable study with limited conclusions pointing to a need for further research coming out the end of the equivalent of the old "telephone game" as HOLEY MOLEY! RESEARCHERS HAVE JUST DISCOVERED THIS MASSIVELY IMPORTANT NEW THING THAT NO ONE HAD EVERY SUSPECTED BEFORE BUT THAT WE SHOULD BASE DECISIONS ON EVEN THOUGH IT HASN'T BEEN REPLICATED YET!! PLEASE CLICK HERE TO INCREASE MY AD REVENUE!!
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at this point, I am wishing I never brought the comment up.8
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »@lynn_glenmont and @T1DCarnivoreRunner
I get both your positions, I brought it up initially as a "hmmmm" from something I remembered hearing last week. My giving the link and its references today was just to provide where I encountered it since there actually seemed to be interest in discussion its possible validity. At this point in time, I do not have the background to read that study (reference #2). Did either of you have better luck? I would have had to sit with a dictionary all day to even attempt it. The only comments I can add to this discussion are that a study was actually done, a doctor bothered to read and reference it (she had plenty to talk about without referencing it), and then an organization chose to write and article on the paper after reading it. It very well could be a case of garbage in garbage out, but it is worth a pause to see if there is anything of value in that study. I hope someone can actually read it!
My understanding is that they created models of the virus and then tried to figure out how to make antibodies that circumvent the spike proteins. It doesn't sound like they had success, but still learned more about the structure of the virus and the spike proteins. Did you understand something different?
That's pretty much what I got, except for the part about it not sounding like they had success. It sounded to me like the modeling and gaining insight from the modeling was their goal, and that they intended all along for that insight to be used by other researchers who work on antibody and vaccine development.3 -
at this point, I am wishing I never brought the comment up.
I'm sorry if you feel like you have to defend or respond to every comment on it. I kept trying to make the point that I was addressing the material about fructose that you posted, not anything you said about it. I think it's perfectly fine for people to bring ideas or content to the discussion without being responsible for defending it or responding to every post about it. I intentionally wasn't "@" -ing you.9 -
Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.7
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missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
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missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.9 -
missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Maybe so but I firmly believe his care and monitoring will be best of the best vs. that poor little 90 yo 100 lb. old lady in the nursing home that's merely someone's mom or grandma who's...well, old already and clearly dispensable.
Bitter much? Oh yeh.
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missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Maybe so but I firmly believe his care and monitoring will be best of the best vs. that poor little 90 yo 100 lb. old lady in the nursing home that's merely someone's mom or grandma who's...well, old already and clearly dispensable.
Bitter much? Oh yeh.
Clearly dispensable? Wow harsh! I’m bitter too, btw. Even sarcastically. (I hope)
My neighbors 95 yo mother, in a nursing home survived covid.9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
I am sure that you are correct. But I can just imagine all that is going to go on in the news now. As it was, I regretted turning on the TV way too often these days.4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
That was just discussed a bit on the news. Quarantine (I think they mentioned only 10?) or two negative tests over 24 hours apart. Speculation is that the second will be the faster path to returning to public campaigning. There was also speculation that President Trump may need to change his rally format. Time will tell.
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missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Maybe so but I firmly believe his care and monitoring will be best of the best vs. that poor little 90 yo 100 lb. old lady in the nursing home that's merely someone's mom or grandma who's...well, old already and clearly dispensable.
Bitter much? Oh yeh.
The nursing home stories were terrible and sad. In Massachusetts some people are being prosecuted and then NY state made some bad bad decisions when it came to the NYC nursing home. On the other hand, there are plenty of nursing homes that managed to properly protect and care for their residents.
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Quarantine? No such thing in my little world. For work purposes (community hospital), even if we’ve been directly exposed to someone with covid (either patients or community exposure) we are supposed to show up to work. Only if we have a fever over 100 will they consider us unfit to work 😑18
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MadDogManor wrote: »Quarantine? No such thing in my little world. For work purposes (community hospital), even if we’ve been directly exposed to someone with covid (either patients or community exposure) we are supposed to show up to work. Only if we have a fever over 100 will they consider us unfit to work 😑
Same here. We get tested and if negative, don't have to quarantine or miss work.9 -
missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
That was just discussed a bit on the news. Quarantine (I think they mentioned only 10?) or two negative tests over 24 hours apart. Speculation is that the second will be the faster path to returning to public campaigning. There was also speculation that President Trump may need to change his rally format. Time will tell.
But if he is already positive, he will likely be positive for over 14 days anyways unless it was a false positive.3 -
Well, it is what it is. Science trumps politics.14
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This is a turning point either way, I'm concerned, or optimistic. Either it will be a brief illness and the message will be, "see it was just the flu..." Which would be an absolutely catastrophic message. Or nearly everyone that was in that close group will test positive and start a more consistent message to take this serious, which has been drastically needed all along. And that would save lives. I have a feeling it will be the former, not the latter.11
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Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
That was just discussed a bit on the news. Quarantine (I think they mentioned only 10?) or two negative tests over 24 hours apart. Speculation is that the second will be the faster path to returning to public campaigning. There was also speculation that President Trump may need to change his rally format. Time will tell.
But if he is already positive, he will likely be positive for over 14 days anyways unless it was a false positive.
Not necessarily. From the reading I did earlier this week, testing is no where near as accurate as we all would hope. There is apparently a window during which one typically will test positive. Too early, negative, too late, negative. Then again, we have all heard those bizarre stories about a person testing positive for 100 days. Those are not the typical and who knows why one is different from the other. The links I shared here that are worth reading IMO are these. They definitely caught me by surprise:
https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/07/when-should-i-be-tested
https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/06/how-does-covid-19-antigen-test-work
https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/08/did-we-have-covid-192 -
My relative tested negative but had a high fever for 10 days with the other common symptoms. Her doctor told her she clearly had it regardless of the negative result. The tests results are all over the place. Her results took almost a week to come back. It was the hottest part of the summer and how are those tests sent/stored. Surely everything is not in pristine condition when it arrives at the lab. If they lay around at the post office, only the Shadow knows.
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@Diatonic12 If you look at those article I linked, it would help you see how possible that could be even without the added potential impact of summer heat/storage.3
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missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Yes, but can do some speaking from quarantine. Here's what bothers me: They found out about Hope Hicks testing positive as Marine One was taking off yesterday to head to Air Force One and go to a fundraiser. At that time, they took several people off Marine One because they had been in contact with Ms. Hicks. However, several others had been in close contact with her (including the President) and continued on to the fundraiser. Why? I'm not convinced they will take quarantine seriously.8 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Yes, but can do some speaking from quarantine. Here's what bothers me: They found out about Hope Hicks testing positive as Marine One was taking off yesterday to head to Air Force One and go to a fundraiser. At that time, they took several people off Marine One because they had been in contact with Ms. Hicks. However, several others had been in close contact with her (including the President) and continued on to the fundraiser. Why? I'm not convinced they will take quarantine seriously.
I would agree with you, but the only other factor could be the frequency of President Trump's testing. If I heard correctly today, he was negative yesterday morning. Do correct me if I heard wrong.
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It’s probably nothing like bad storage causing the false negative. The nature of how these tests work means that they will have a certain number of false negatives due to test sensitivity, individuals not having Covid in the areas tested, and so on. It would be great if a perfect test existed, but it doesn’t.Diatonic12 wrote: »My relative tested negative but had a high fever for 10 days with the other common symptoms. Her doctor told her she clearly had it regardless of the negative result. The tests results are all over the place. Her results took almost a week to come back. It was the hottest part of the summer and how are those tests sent/stored. Surely everything is not in pristine condition when it arrives at the lab. If they lay around at the post office, only the Shadow knows.
@SModa61 I hadn’t thought about that - Trump has said he is the most frequently tested man in the world, and tested at least once every day, yet we have been hearing reporting about this as if he and Melania were only tested after Hicks developed symptoms. Wouldn’t he have been tested that day and the day before regardless?
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MadDogManor wrote: »Quarantine? No such thing in my little world. For work purposes (community hospital), even if we’ve been directly exposed to someone with covid (either patients or community exposure) we are supposed to show up to work. Only if we have a fever over 100 will they consider us unfit to work 😑
See, this is why I didn’t go to urgent care when I sliced my finger the other day. In my community the largest percentage of cases with known transmission (35% of all new cases) are coming from contact with healthcare. It’s horrifying. And the hospitals keep putting out ads saying, “we are here for you, there’s no risk, we will keep you safe.” Uh, no you won’t, you keep giving people Covid!
Not intended to be a slight to you personally, you clearly have no choice in the matter.11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Yes, but can do some speaking from quarantine. Here's what bothers me: They found out about Hope Hicks testing positive as Marine One was taking off yesterday to head to Air Force One and go to a fundraiser. At that time, they took several people off Marine One because they had been in contact with Ms. Hicks. However, several others had been in close contact with her (including the President) and continued on to the fundraiser. Why? I'm not convinced they will take quarantine seriously.
I would agree with you, but the only other factor could be the frequency of President Trump's testing. If I heard correctly today, he was negative yesterday morning. Do correct me if I heard wrong.
We’ve all heard of false negatives and positives. We know that in the beginning the close contact in planes and cruise ships helped quickly spread the disease. I realize that Air Force One is a huge plane, but just think of all the people he’s been in close contact with this week, all over the country, including our other presidential candidate. Biden and his wife tested negative today, but who knows what tomorrow brings.
I’m not convinced of the timing of the acknowledgment that he and the First Lady tested positive. In the middle of the night? The President of the United States, when one of his closest aids had tested positive.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Yes, but can do some speaking from quarantine. Here's what bothers me: They found out about Hope Hicks testing positive as Marine One was taking off yesterday to head to Air Force One and go to a fundraiser. At that time, they took several people off Marine One because they had been in contact with Ms. Hicks. However, several others had been in close contact with her (including the President) and continued on to the fundraiser. Why? I'm not convinced they will take quarantine seriously.
I would agree with you, but the only other factor could be the frequency of President Trump's testing. If I heard correctly today, he was negative yesterday morning. Do correct me if I heard wrong.
He gets the Abbott rapid test daily, which is why I'm surprised he was showing symptoms starting Wed. night and yet continued to test negative. MSNBC had someone on that says the rapid tests have a 3 in 10 false negative rate, which is very high. Yet I thought the rapid testing had a high false positive rate. Is it just false in general?!
ETA: After Gov. DeWine had a false positive from the rapid test before meeting with Trump, I'm sure he got a PCR test to be certain before releasing that he is positive.
ETA again: Sorry, PCR is the rapid test... the antigen test is what I mean. The slow test...
Also, saw something, I think from MIT, that says the rapid test has 100% false negative on day 1 of infection, down to 67% false negative on day 4, and down to 38% false negative rate when symptoms begin.3 -
missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Maybe so but I firmly believe his care and monitoring will be best of the best vs. that poor little 90 yo 100 lb. old lady in the nursing home that's merely someone's mom or grandma who's...well, old already and clearly dispensable.
Bitter much? Oh yeh.
Clearly dispensable? Wow harsh! I’m bitter too, btw. Even sarcastically. (I hope)
My neighbors 95 yo mother, in a nursing home survived covid.
Of course I'm bitter. How many cases were there where medical personnel had to choose who would live and who would die? How many times have all of us heard, whether through media or IRL, well, they're old(so what do you expect), they're ready to kick the bucket anyways, or *only* the elderly and health compromised were susceptible to getting a bad case of Covid. It always sounded, to me, like they had less importance than a healthy vibrant young 25 yo. Harsh? Sorry if I came across that way because yes, I was being completely sarcastic.
I certainly wish NO ONE dead from this monster. But I also wish everyone had the same fighting chance.
And my former comment was, in no way, meant to demean the wonderful and loving care that nursing homes, etc., give their patients. I could never do their job; it's physically and emotionally draining and IMO are not getting paid their true worth.
We should've been much better prepared right out of the gate. Everyone should've and still should adhere to strict personal protection codes.
Ok, dismounting my high horse now.
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missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Donald Trump and his wife test positive for Covid-19.
Wow, just one more dynamic added to this already crazy election.
I'm sure they will be fine as he has access to levels of treatment that most people don't.
But 1 month from Election Day, quarantine for 14 days, so no campaigning around the country. They will have medical attention most people don’t receive, but no one is immune and he’s in the age group for risk factor.
Maybe so but I firmly believe his care and monitoring will be best of the best vs. that poor little 90 yo 100 lb. old lady in the nursing home that's merely someone's mom or grandma who's...well, old already and clearly dispensable.
Bitter much? Oh yeh.
Clearly dispensable? Wow harsh! I’m bitter too, btw. Even sarcastically. (I hope)
My neighbors 95 yo mother, in a nursing home survived covid.
Of course I'm bitter. How many cases were there where medical personnel had to choose who would live and who would die? How many times have all of us heard, whether through media or IRL, well, they're old(so what do you expect), they're ready to kick the bucket anyways, or *only* the elderly and health compromised were susceptible to getting a bad case of Covid. It always sounded, to me, like they had less importance than a healthy vibrant young 25 yo. Harsh? Sorry if I came across that way because yes, I was being completely sarcastic.
I certainly wish NO ONE dead from this monster. But I also wish everyone had the same fighting chance.
And my former comment was, in no way, meant to demean the wonderful and loving care that nursing homes, etc., give their patients. I could never do their job; it's physically and emotionally draining and IMO are not getting paid their true worth.
We should've been much better prepared right out of the gate. Everyone should've and still should adhere to strict personal protection codes.
Ok, dismounting my high horse now.
I agree, there’s a lot to be angry about, and it may not have been as bad as it is if things were handled better from the start. You can add to the list pro athletes that are tested daily when those on the front line can’t get tested. It’s absolutely insane. So many mixed messages we are being fed. There’s a lot to be angry about.8
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