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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
Replies
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Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Being mindful doesn't typically work because the serving sizes and calorie loads of foods can be deceiving. I couldn't lose weight while mindfully eating processed foods AND not logging because I didn't realize how many calories I was consuming (and how little I was burning). Now that I weigh and log my food, I am perfectly capable of eating an appropriate amount of food, processed or not, and fit them in my calorie goal.
In fact, I went through a period of time where I was mindfully eating whole foods and managed to not lose weight then either. Because I'm equally capable of overeating roasted chicken and potatoes
4 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Being mindful doesn't typically work because the serving sizes and calorie loads of foods can be deceiving. I couldn't lose weight while mindfully eating processed foods AND not logging because I didn't realize how many calories I was consuming (and how little I was burning). Now that I weigh and log my food, I am perfectly capable of eating an appropriate amount of food, processed or not, and fit them in my calorie goal.
In fact, I went through a period of time where I was mindfully eating whole foods and managed to not lose weight then either. Because I'm equally capable of overeating roasted chicken and potatoes
I realize that roasted chicken and potatoes aren't "hyper-palatable" in the sense technical sense Doritos are, but I think anyone who has ever sat down to a meal of the former can understand how easy it can be to just keep eating because it's just soooo good. A Big Mac has nothing on it, as far as I'm concerned.5 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
And yet I managed to become overweight then obese (and stay that way for decades, even a decade of active training and athletic competition), while eating vegetarian, whole grain, virtually no fast food or soda pop or other things people call "junk food", lots of cooked-from-whole-ingredients dishes, plenty of fruits/veg, and that sort of thing.
The things most people refer to as "hyperpalatable" generally are not even good or appealing, to me . . . and that's been true for many decades now. It's also why I don't generally eat fake meat: I think it tastes ucky.
Too many of any calories, high quality or low, result in becoming overweight or obese. Food is tasty. People enjoy eating it. Different people enjoy different types. Any of the types can make a person fat, if there are excess calories.6 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
And yet I managed to become overweight then obese (and stay that way for decades, even a decade of active training and athletic competition), while eating vegetarian, whole grain, virtually no fast food or soda pop or other things people call "junk food", lots of cooked-from-whole-ingredients dishes, plenty of fruits/veg, and that sort of thing.
The things most people refer to as "hyperpalatable" generally are not even good or appealing, to me . . . and that's been true for many decades now. It's also why I don't generally eat fake meat: I think it tastes ucky.
Too many of any calories, high quality or low, result in becoming overweight or obese. Food is tasty. People enjoy eating it. Different people enjoy different types. Any of the types can make a person fat, if there are excess calories.
and conversely I managed to lose weight and keep it off whilst eating quite a bit of processed food - and quite a bit of fresh ,whole foods too, it isnt all or nothing.
I didnt really change my diet (as in the foods I eat) to lose weight - just swapped some things for lower calorie alternatives - regualar soda for diet version, for example - and cut out some 'unneccesary extras' like bread with dinner - (nothing agaisnt bread, just didnt need bread and dinner at same time) some mindless snacking (nothing agaisnt snacking either but some was source of over consumption with out real enjoyment) and reduced portion amounts and frequency of some high calorie foods.
What is the common denominator between our 2 weight loss stories?? - it isnt vegetarianism (since I am not one) , it isnt type of foods since your version is lot 'cleaner' than mine, it isnt activity level since you do more than me, it isnt processed foods or lack thereof - It is eating appropriate calorie level.
Everything else is variable and individual - CICO is not.
and none of this really relates to Beyond Burger, since both of us, for different reasons, do not eat them.
3 -
Uh no, it's calories in and out. Go to a prison. How many of the population is obese? And the food quality isn't good quality (it only costs $4 a day to feed an inmate in CA 3 meals a day). And they aren't dying either. In fact many come out of prison in pretty good shape physically.Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Go to 3rd world Asian countries and they have canned processed goods that taste good. Problem is they can't AFFORD to eat too much. Hence they don't have the same obesity issues.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
"Processed foods" are incredibly varied. Tofu is processed, and while I like it well enough in combination with some other foods, I don't find plain tofu particularly "highly palatable." Same with a variety of other processed foods.
I also agree with the others saying above that many of the most delicious foods are -- to my taste -- relatively unprocessed (like roasted chicken with potatoes plus some veg, or a fresh salad with homemade dressing, or some grilled salmon). By contrast, I've had leftover Halloween candy since last Halloween, since even though that stuff is processed I don't find it very tempting.
Rather than focusing just on processed vs unprocessed, a more educated approach would be to understand what the food you are eating brings to the table specifically. (Boneless skinless chicken breast is more processed than a whole chicken, and personally I prefer chicken cooked bone-in, skin on, but the boneless, skinless has more protein per cal and less sat fat, if those are concerns, or depending on what else you are eating them with. Being more processed neither makes the one option less good for you or more delicious.)3 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
"Processed foods" are incredibly varied. Tofu is processed, and while I like it well enough in combination with some other foods, I don't find plain tofu particularly "highly palatable." Same with a variety of other processed foods.
I also agree with the others saying above that many of the most delicious foods are -- to my taste -- relatively unprocessed (like roasted chicken with potatoes plus some veg, or a fresh salad with homemade dressing, or some grilled salmon). By contrast, I've had leftover Halloween candy since last Halloween, since even though that stuff is processed I don't find it very tempting.
Rather than focusing just on processed vs unprocessed, a more educated approach would be to understand what the food you are eating brings to the table specifically. (Boneless skinless chicken breast is more processed than a whole chicken, and personally I prefer chicken cooked bone-in, skin on, but the boneless, skinless has more protein per cal and less sat fat, if those are concerns, or depending on what else you are eating them with. Being more processed neither makes the one option less good for you or more delicious.)
My workplace just sent me a gift basket of containing several movie theatre size boxes of candy as an appreciation gift.
My husband grabbed the Whoppers and ate them all within 24 hours. He ate one Charleston Chew and threw out the box. I set the Swedish Fish aside to snack on for fuel during my virtual marathon on Sunday morning because they're one of my favorite candies. I know my husband isn't going to eat them before I get to them, because despite his sweet tooth he has no interest in fruit gummy candies. The Runts I put in the cabinet thinking "maybe someday," but they'll probably be there until I realize we're never going to eat them. All the candy is highly processed, all is obviously full of sugar. But the difference responses we had to the individual candies make it clear that doesn't tell the full story.
7 -
It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.
Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html
0 -
It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.
Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html
I looked into that a bit recently (see the Vegan Milk thread). At least one startup that I looked into that was trying to grow lab meat went under. My best guess is they weren't as close as what they said on the technology and people have shown they will readily eat a plant based product that tastes similar to meat.
What I found interesting is that by trying to grow meat in a lab, they got much better at individual cell selection and isolation for desired qualities. The group that was trying to grow lab based meat are all with a new startup using bioselection to grow micronutrients from plant based sources.
I guess I see this industry moving toward a better understanding of what gives meat the taste it has (heme is one thing that the plant burger makers concentrated on). As they get better and better determining what cells within real meat make it taste like it does, they will get better at making alternatives in a lab, but I think they will be plant based, taking qualities from the real thing and either trying to incorporate that or imitating it better, all while reducing the amount of artificial ingredients. I think super nutrient fake burgers made from nutrients that are plant derived (isolated and grown through fermentation) will be the next steps.
Most of it's done through fermentation. Fermentation, whether for nutraceuticals, medicine or food is a growing area.1 -
Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.2 -
tgillies003 wrote: »Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.
Because you can pick those chickpea and quinoa patties and tortillas off the vines and stalks, carve that cured bacon off the pig, and get Brie straight from the cow's udder.8 -
yes, I am a little lost as to how a chickpea/ quinoa patty in a tortilla wrap with cheese and bacon is somehow less processed than a beyond meat patty in a bread roll
6 -
tgillies003 wrote: »Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.
Yes, that does sound like a delicious combination of processed foods. Your taste buds, like those of most people, have the ability to appreciate unprocessed foods and foods that have undergone processing, like a tortilla, cheese, or the Impossible Burger.5 -
Good article today on this subject by Forbes. Geared toward investors, but the fact that Tyson is now in the game, that's some telling stuff.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/11/02/the-race-for-the-alternative-protein-market-five-investment-areas-to-watch/?sh=2bd3d85d6c6d0 -
I personally never expect a plant-based burger to taste like meat. I just want it to be delicious. So a product claiming to taste like meat isn’t really a selling feature for me. I’d rather stick with a plant burger that has clean ingredients and taste great even if that taste is sweet potato or black bean. I couldn’t really see hard-core burger lovers being turned over by fake meat taste either.2
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Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).
I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).
I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's observed this.
Yeah, I get that it's sort of "intended kindness against my will", but it does seem very odd. (As you might guess from my persona here, I'm more than capable of stating clearly what I want, or don't want, not a shy retiring flower whom one might expect to require support from others to avoid being trampled. I'm flexible in restaurant choice, but not masochistic. 😉)3 -
I think it's curious how it's always meat versus non-meat that seems to prompt this kind of either/or conversation. I guess as someone who eats a wide variety of plant foods, I never feel like one is crowding out another. Some days I want a portobello burger, other days I might be more in the mood for an Impossible burger. There are some burger mediums I don't care for at all (looking at you, eggplant burger), but I never feel like this is anything more than a unique taste quirk of mine. It doesn't SAY anything about me.
When someone orders a turkey sandwich, it isn't really a statement on ham sandwiches, is it? Yet when it comes to non-meat burgers, it seems like everyone thinks these choices -- their personal preference -- are significant and it seems loaded with all these other values -- for example, "cleanness" or authenticity.
Another thing I've noticed about these conversations (not just here, but elsewhere online) is that all these disclaimers start to come in.
"Well, I don't eat much meat, but . . . "
"I prefer real food."
"I'm not a vegetarian, but . . ."
It's completely opposite to the way we talk about like strawberry jam or grape jelly on our peanut butter sandwich. It's like many of us know (or think we know) there's something more involved here.
So I think there might be something here that some of us (including me) aren't really sure how to completely address.
There's some kind of meaning we're discerning in choosing an Impossible burger instead of a burger made from a cow, there's some kind of meaning we're also discerning in choosing a portobello burger instead of an Impossible burger. When someone is a meat-eater but insists they love the taste of black beans enough that they don't see the point of a meat substitute, what are they attempting to tell us about themselves? It would be interesting to know what people are really trying to say about themselves when they're sharing these choices, because it absolutely is more than a "I just prefer turkey sandwiches to ham sandwiches" kind of conversation.7
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