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Thoughts on Beyond Burger and other fake meat
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xGreatWhiteNorthx wrote: »I prefer knowing what im eating so the more I can hunt, fish, grow and raise, the better.
I'd either eat meat, or cut it out. Dont bother with the overprocessed junk.
However, as has been pointed out already - the question isnt between Beyond Meat burger and freshly self caught salmon, it is between Beyond Meat burger and meat burger - they are pitching both to fast food consumers and if some of those would prefer a non meat burger, then it will be a sales winner.
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While I (a vegetarian) don't find most fake meats tasty or satisfying (so don't eat them), it does seem to me that fake meat discussions almost always trigger someone(s) to come in and comment on how processed, non-"clean", not whole-foods (or something similar) it is . . . in a way that rarely if ever happens when the subject is, say, protein bars, protein powder, or the like.
There are also vast generalizations made (full of chemicals, for example) that don't suggest a deep understanding of the wide range of things marketed in one way or another as fake meat.
We could argue all day about whether protein powder is "healthier" than fake meat (which I think is dumb because "healthy" is largely a whole-diet issue IMO, and both protein powder and fake meat are each a huge range of products). But I don't see how most protein powder is less processed, more whole, or maybe even more "clean". (As usual, I have no idea what "clean" is, so I'm not sure. It's one of those "I don't know what 'art' is, but I know what's not, when I see it' things, IMO.)
For clarity: I think it's fine to eat fake meat or protein powder if you like it, and it fits into the context of an overall nutritious, calorie-appropriate diet.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »xGreatWhiteNorthx wrote: »I prefer knowing what im eating so the more I can hunt, fish, grow and raise, the better.
I'd either eat meat, or cut it out. Dont bother with the overprocessed junk.
However, as has been pointed out already - the question isnt between Beyond Meat burger and freshly self caught salmon, it is between Beyond Meat burger and meat burger - they are pitching both to fast food consumers and if some of those would prefer a non meat burger, then it will be a sales winner.
Friday night was date night for me. We went to a bar and I had a beer and a Beyond Burger (outdoors and socially distanced from other diners, of course). The choice on the menu wasn't between a handmade burger from a cow I raised myself with homegrown toppings OR a Beyond Burger, it was between a regular beef hamburger and a Beyond Burger.
I feel like this context is often missed, so I appreciate you bringing it up. The person who is committed to eating what they catch and grow isn't going to be ordering ANYTHING from a bar menu. I like to eat out sometimes, so the Beyond Burger is an acceptable option for me.4 -
It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future. Less resources used, less animals being killed and the meat can be safer due to controlled system. Now it may not be as tasty since it's only focused on just the lean mean and not fat being grown with it, but that's what ketchup is for.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.2 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Are you arguing that a Beyond Burger is more palatable than a beef burger and they're more of a trigger to overconsumption?
If you're arguing that faux meat is a factor in the weight of the average American, I think we're going to need some evidence to demonstrate it, as well as back up the claim that the calories in a Beyond or Impossible Burger are "lower" quality than the calories in the food that they're replacing -- which is a standard beef burger.7 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Being mindful doesn't typically work because the serving sizes and calorie loads of foods can be deceiving. I couldn't lose weight while mindfully eating processed foods AND not logging because I didn't realize how many calories I was consuming (and how little I was burning). Now that I weigh and log my food, I am perfectly capable of eating an appropriate amount of food, processed or not, and fit them in my calorie goal.
In fact, I went through a period of time where I was mindfully eating whole foods and managed to not lose weight then either. Because I'm equally capable of overeating roasted chicken and potatoes
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Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Being mindful doesn't typically work because the serving sizes and calorie loads of foods can be deceiving. I couldn't lose weight while mindfully eating processed foods AND not logging because I didn't realize how many calories I was consuming (and how little I was burning). Now that I weigh and log my food, I am perfectly capable of eating an appropriate amount of food, processed or not, and fit them in my calorie goal.
In fact, I went through a period of time where I was mindfully eating whole foods and managed to not lose weight then either. Because I'm equally capable of overeating roasted chicken and potatoes
I realize that roasted chicken and potatoes aren't "hyper-palatable" in the sense technical sense Doritos are, but I think anyone who has ever sat down to a meal of the former can understand how easy it can be to just keep eating because it's just soooo good. A Big Mac has nothing on it, as far as I'm concerned.5 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
And yet I managed to become overweight then obese (and stay that way for decades, even a decade of active training and athletic competition), while eating vegetarian, whole grain, virtually no fast food or soda pop or other things people call "junk food", lots of cooked-from-whole-ingredients dishes, plenty of fruits/veg, and that sort of thing.
The things most people refer to as "hyperpalatable" generally are not even good or appealing, to me . . . and that's been true for many decades now. It's also why I don't generally eat fake meat: I think it tastes ucky.
Too many of any calories, high quality or low, result in becoming overweight or obese. Food is tasty. People enjoy eating it. Different people enjoy different types. Any of the types can make a person fat, if there are excess calories.6 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
And yet I managed to become overweight then obese (and stay that way for decades, even a decade of active training and athletic competition), while eating vegetarian, whole grain, virtually no fast food or soda pop or other things people call "junk food", lots of cooked-from-whole-ingredients dishes, plenty of fruits/veg, and that sort of thing.
The things most people refer to as "hyperpalatable" generally are not even good or appealing, to me . . . and that's been true for many decades now. It's also why I don't generally eat fake meat: I think it tastes ucky.
Too many of any calories, high quality or low, result in becoming overweight or obese. Food is tasty. People enjoy eating it. Different people enjoy different types. Any of the types can make a person fat, if there are excess calories.
and conversely I managed to lose weight and keep it off whilst eating quite a bit of processed food - and quite a bit of fresh ,whole foods too, it isnt all or nothing.
I didnt really change my diet (as in the foods I eat) to lose weight - just swapped some things for lower calorie alternatives - regualar soda for diet version, for example - and cut out some 'unneccesary extras' like bread with dinner - (nothing agaisnt bread, just didnt need bread and dinner at same time) some mindless snacking (nothing agaisnt snacking either but some was source of over consumption with out real enjoyment) and reduced portion amounts and frequency of some high calorie foods.
What is the common denominator between our 2 weight loss stories?? - it isnt vegetarianism (since I am not one) , it isnt type of foods since your version is lot 'cleaner' than mine, it isnt activity level since you do more than me, it isnt processed foods or lack thereof - It is eating appropriate calorie level.
Everything else is variable and individual - CICO is not.
and none of this really relates to Beyond Burger, since both of us, for different reasons, do not eat them.
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Uh no, it's calories in and out. Go to a prison. How many of the population is obese? And the food quality isn't good quality (it only costs $4 a day to feed an inmate in CA 3 meals a day). And they aren't dying either. In fact many come out of prison in pretty good shape physically.Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
Go to 3rd world Asian countries and they have canned processed goods that taste good. Problem is they can't AFFORD to eat too much. Hence they don't have the same obesity issues.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
"Processed foods" are incredibly varied. Tofu is processed, and while I like it well enough in combination with some other foods, I don't find plain tofu particularly "highly palatable." Same with a variety of other processed foods.
I also agree with the others saying above that many of the most delicious foods are -- to my taste -- relatively unprocessed (like roasted chicken with potatoes plus some veg, or a fresh salad with homemade dressing, or some grilled salmon). By contrast, I've had leftover Halloween candy since last Halloween, since even though that stuff is processed I don't find it very tempting.
Rather than focusing just on processed vs unprocessed, a more educated approach would be to understand what the food you are eating brings to the table specifically. (Boneless skinless chicken breast is more processed than a whole chicken, and personally I prefer chicken cooked bone-in, skin on, but the boneless, skinless has more protein per cal and less sat fat, if those are concerns, or depending on what else you are eating them with. Being more processed neither makes the one option less good for you or more delicious.)3 -
Sigh.
You do you. Like the taste, eat it. Don't like the taste, don't.
Processed, unprocessed. Its all food. Calories in, calories out.
What's the fear about processing?
Processed food are designed to be highly palatable which triggers over consumption. Being mindful about food is not working or else the average person wouldn't be overweight or obese. It's not simply calories in and calories out but quality calories in and quality calories out.
"Processed foods" are incredibly varied. Tofu is processed, and while I like it well enough in combination with some other foods, I don't find plain tofu particularly "highly palatable." Same with a variety of other processed foods.
I also agree with the others saying above that many of the most delicious foods are -- to my taste -- relatively unprocessed (like roasted chicken with potatoes plus some veg, or a fresh salad with homemade dressing, or some grilled salmon). By contrast, I've had leftover Halloween candy since last Halloween, since even though that stuff is processed I don't find it very tempting.
Rather than focusing just on processed vs unprocessed, a more educated approach would be to understand what the food you are eating brings to the table specifically. (Boneless skinless chicken breast is more processed than a whole chicken, and personally I prefer chicken cooked bone-in, skin on, but the boneless, skinless has more protein per cal and less sat fat, if those are concerns, or depending on what else you are eating them with. Being more processed neither makes the one option less good for you or more delicious.)
My workplace just sent me a gift basket of containing several movie theatre size boxes of candy as an appreciation gift.
My husband grabbed the Whoppers and ate them all within 24 hours. He ate one Charleston Chew and threw out the box. I set the Swedish Fish aside to snack on for fuel during my virtual marathon on Sunday morning because they're one of my favorite candies. I know my husband isn't going to eat them before I get to them, because despite his sweet tooth he has no interest in fruit gummy candies. The Runts I put in the cabinet thinking "maybe someday," but they'll probably be there until I realize we're never going to eat them. All the candy is highly processed, all is obviously full of sugar. But the difference responses we had to the individual candies make it clear that doesn't tell the full story.
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It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.
Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html
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It's coming sooner now that science is figuring it out. But lab grown meat may be the thing of the future.
Just in time to go with the lab-grown milk:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/singapores-food-tech-startups-serve-up-lab-grown-milk-fake-shrimp.html
I looked into that a bit recently (see the Vegan Milk thread). At least one startup that I looked into that was trying to grow lab meat went under. My best guess is they weren't as close as what they said on the technology and people have shown they will readily eat a plant based product that tastes similar to meat.
What I found interesting is that by trying to grow meat in a lab, they got much better at individual cell selection and isolation for desired qualities. The group that was trying to grow lab based meat are all with a new startup using bioselection to grow micronutrients from plant based sources.
I guess I see this industry moving toward a better understanding of what gives meat the taste it has (heme is one thing that the plant burger makers concentrated on). As they get better and better determining what cells within real meat make it taste like it does, they will get better at making alternatives in a lab, but I think they will be plant based, taking qualities from the real thing and either trying to incorporate that or imitating it better, all while reducing the amount of artificial ingredients. I think super nutrient fake burgers made from nutrients that are plant derived (isolated and grown through fermentation) will be the next steps.
Most of it's done through fermentation. Fermentation, whether for nutraceuticals, medicine or food is a growing area.1 -
Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.2 -
tgillies003 wrote: »Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.
Because you can pick those chickpea and quinoa patties and tortillas off the vines and stalks, carve that cured bacon off the pig, and get Brie straight from the cow's udder.8 -
yes, I am a little lost as to how a chickpea/ quinoa patty in a tortilla wrap with cheese and bacon is somehow less processed than a beyond meat patty in a bread roll
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tgillies003 wrote: »Fake meat — I put that in the same category of all highly processed foods.
For my taste buds, I prefer whole foods that are processed as little as possible.
I’m an omnivore and eat a variety of foods in moderation.
Today, we went out for lunch (haven’t done that on a long time); I had a chickpea and quinoa patty, in a tortilla wrap with bacon and Brie cheese. It was delicious.
Yes, that does sound like a delicious combination of processed foods. Your taste buds, like those of most people, have the ability to appreciate unprocessed foods and foods that have undergone processing, like a tortilla, cheese, or the Impossible Burger.5 -
Good article today on this subject by Forbes. Geared toward investors, but the fact that Tyson is now in the game, that's some telling stuff.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2020/11/02/the-race-for-the-alternative-protein-market-five-investment-areas-to-watch/?sh=2bd3d85d6c6d0 -
I personally never expect a plant-based burger to taste like meat. I just want it to be delicious. So a product claiming to taste like meat isn’t really a selling feature for me. I’d rather stick with a plant burger that has clean ingredients and taste great even if that taste is sweet potato or black bean. I couldn’t really see hard-core burger lovers being turned over by fake meat taste either.2
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Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).
I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
I've lost count of how many times I've had to insist "Don't worry about me, I'll find something to eat" when I'm in a group setting (I mean, back when we HAD group outings). It's deeply uncomfortable for me when I feel like the whole group is thinking about what I'm going to eat. I did a couple of work trips with someone who has Celiac Disease and it was a relief to have the focus on HIM when we were deciding on dinner each night (now that I think about it, he probably didn't like it any more than I do).
I've noticed the pushiness too -- there have been a few times when I've stated that I KNEW what I could eat at a certain place and I was fine going there and someone would still be arguing that we could go someplace "better" for me.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's observed this.
Yeah, I get that it's sort of "intended kindness against my will", but it does seem very odd. (As you might guess from my persona here, I'm more than capable of stating clearly what I want, or don't want, not a shy retiring flower whom one might expect to require support from others to avoid being trampled. I'm flexible in restaurant choice, but not masochistic. 😉)3 -
I think it's curious how it's always meat versus non-meat that seems to prompt this kind of either/or conversation. I guess as someone who eats a wide variety of plant foods, I never feel like one is crowding out another. Some days I want a portobello burger, other days I might be more in the mood for an Impossible burger. There are some burger mediums I don't care for at all (looking at you, eggplant burger), but I never feel like this is anything more than a unique taste quirk of mine. It doesn't SAY anything about me.
When someone orders a turkey sandwich, it isn't really a statement on ham sandwiches, is it? Yet when it comes to non-meat burgers, it seems like everyone thinks these choices -- their personal preference -- are significant and it seems loaded with all these other values -- for example, "cleanness" or authenticity.
Another thing I've noticed about these conversations (not just here, but elsewhere online) is that all these disclaimers start to come in.
"Well, I don't eat much meat, but . . . "
"I prefer real food."
"I'm not a vegetarian, but . . ."
It's completely opposite to the way we talk about like strawberry jam or grape jelly on our peanut butter sandwich. It's like many of us know (or think we know) there's something more involved here.
So I think there might be something here that some of us (including me) aren't really sure how to completely address.
There's some kind of meaning we're discerning in choosing an Impossible burger instead of a burger made from a cow, there's some kind of meaning we're also discerning in choosing a portobello burger instead of an Impossible burger. When someone is a meat-eater but insists they love the taste of black beans enough that they don't see the point of a meat substitute, what are they attempting to tell us about themselves? It would be interesting to know what people are really trying to say about themselves when they're sharing these choices, because it absolutely is more than a "I just prefer turkey sandwiches to ham sandwiches" kind of conversation.7 -
My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
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Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
If the food isn't good, does meat save it? I mean, wouldn't everyone want to have GOOD food, regardless of whether or not it contains meat?
This, to me, is an example of the bizarre ways we categorize meat (not trying to jump on you in particular, just tying back to my the point I made above).
I love potatoes. I mean, I adore them. If I went to a restaurant that had good food, but didn't have potatoes, I still would never think of saying "the food was so good I didn't miss the potatoes."
Is this because many of us think of meat as something that is usually obligatory for a meal? As in, if it isn't there, something must compensate for it in a way that we would never think of for other ingredients, including those we're really passionate about?0 -
Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
Which is just great!
But I can literally pick a restaurant I like (or endorse one someone else has suggested), one that I know has good options for me as a vegetarian that I'd enjoy eating, and have non-vegetarians friends fussed about what I'll eat there, and suggest other places more know for their veg options. They don't need to pick for me, or "defend" me - at least as no one is just being a jerk in some other direction. (There's a restaurant here that has advertised as a point of pride that they only thing they have without meat is soda pop. I strongly prefer that groups I'm in not go there, and say so. Almost any other local place can work - I'm flexible.)
I don't get it, personally, if there are meat-eaters who would never, ever consider eating in a vegetarian restaurant, because vegetarian food can be very good and very diverse, as you say. (I don't hate them for it, I just don't *understand* being so attached to meat that one meal can't possibly be enjoyed without meat.) For sure, with people like that in a group, I'm motivated to seek out a place with a diverse menu that has things each of us can enjoy. Same (of course) if people have food allergies, very strong preferences against certain ethnic food types, sensitivities (like heartburn, etc.) to certain foods, or just "don't feel like Chinese tonight".
Some people don't like eating things they've never eaten, in general, too - not just meat but other things. Personally, I like trying new cuisines and ingredients. Everyone has different approaches and taste preferences.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Maggiesanvicto wrote: »My aunt is a vegetarian and I always let her choose a restaurant when we go out. Not because I’m worried about what she’s going to eat at a non veggie place....because she’s a vegetarian she’ll take me out for some good vegetarian food that I’m more likely to enjoy then just choosing a restaurant because it has a meet alternative option.
I love trying new foods. If the food is good then I don’t miss the meat.MikePfirrman wrote: »Another article that ties in well with this thread from one of my Linkedin contacts. Very insightful. They point out that families are looking for meat alternatives, will go to a different restaurant if ones not offered, and (this is the big deal to restaurants) people are willing to pay a bit more -- which at this time, when restaurants are striving to recover profits, means you'll be seeing a lot more of this stuff in your favorite restaurants soon.
https://www.fastcasual.com/blogs/plant-based-meat-options-why-its-a-big-deal-to-customers/
Oh, man: I hope this doesn't increase other people's tendency to try to force groups to go to restaurants I don't enjoy, just so I can eat the fake meat!
(This is a bizarre thing to me, that other people worry more about what I'm going to eat, as a vegetarian in XYZ restaurant, than I do. And sometimes they're pushy about it. WTHeck? 😆)
If the food isn't good, does meat save it? I mean, wouldn't everyone want to have GOOD food, regardless of whether or not it contains meat?
I interpreted the post as saying her aunt would pick a vegetarian restaurant that might introduce her to delicious food that was vegetarian. I used to like going to vegetarian and vegan places (or places with lots of those kinds of options, like many Indian and Ethiopian places, etc.) that were rated as having good food for that reason -- I knew how to cook a huge range of non vegan dishes that were delicious, but found it harder to have ideas and know how to make them delicious without the meat/eggs/dairy. There are some things that I could do easily and deliciously -- soups, salads, pasta options, beans and rice with veg, vegetarian chili, and a standby stirfry that included tofu and Japanese 7 spice, but beyond that it was not so intuitive since I learned to cook using meat and eggs and dairy, and most restaurants didn't have particularly interesting meatless options (that's getting better, at least in cities), so I wasn't creative and most of what I could make easily without thinking tended to be lower protein, and would easily be repetitive.
One can learn to cook from a book, and I have plant-based cookbooks, but as someone who normally doesn't use recipes other than for inspiration, seeing the interesting options at a vegetarian or vegan place can also serve as inspiration, as well as showing me how things could taste if done in an interesting and creative way by someone experienced at cooking in those ways.I love potatoes. I mean, I adore them. If I went to a restaurant that had good food, but didn't have potatoes, I still would never think of saying "the food was so good I didn't miss the potatoes."
Is this because many of us think of meat as something that is usually obligatory for a meal? As in, if it isn't there, something must compensate for it in a way that we would never think of for other ingredients, including those we're really passionate about?
Yeah, I think for something like dinner, it's pretty common to see meat -- or at least meat/eggs/dairy -- as something that is normally part of it and contributes to the flavor, and also common for the dishes one sees as high-end restaurant quality to include those ingredients, given the menus at many places. So being inspired by a similar types of dishes that don't use meat, etc., doesn't at all seem weird to me. I don't think the idea is that one cannot occasionally have a beans and rice based dish with veg or vegetarian chili or a pasta dish without meat or a bean enchilada or whatnot. (Even my dad has come around on that, although he used to think it was weird if I cooked a dinner without meat or at least eggs.)
Also meat isn't a single item, like potatoes. I suspect few people would see chicken as essential for a meal, or lamb, or whatever, but I think it's still common to see some sort of meat as part of the typical dinner (the protein source) and to find plant-based protein options as more difficult to cook in a tasty way without experience or requiring different spices or just food one is less used to cooking -- Purple Carrot kits (which I've tried a few times, and find their site gives ideas) use a lot of dishes from other parts of the world, and those might be ones where you aren't sure how they will taste or the proper spice mix or whatever, and tasting such things in restaurants would give ideas.1
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