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"Unrealistic" body goals
IronIsMyTherapy
Posts: 482 Member
in Debate Club
In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
34
Replies
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I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"41 -
As long as a goal isn't making you unhappy or unhealthy, I don't see anything wrong with it.
I'd rather be working constructively towards a goal than working towards nothing at all.
13 -
I think the reason people say "unrealistic" is because it requires a lot of hard work and most people will never achieve it. Like with sports, for example. An adult can start skating when they are in their 30s and maybe they have a goal of landing a double loop. This is unrealistic but not impossible. Are there adult skaters who started skating in their 30s who can land double loops? Yes! But it's not correct to say that Every one can be able to do that. Most people don't have the time or health to be able to jump like that. I've been skating for 12 years as an adult and I still cannot do more than single rotations. Yes, there may be tens of thousands of people who can do "unrealistic" goals, but there are also 7 billion people in the world. Once you have that perspective, it's understandable why people say certain things are actually unrealistic.17
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"
That's kind of my point; they're projecting their own limitations or lack of commitment onto someone else, after that person has already identified their goal. They act as if it's almost humanly impossible when hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people have already proved it possible. Maybe its insecurity?16 -
I think the reason people say "unrealistic" is because it requires a lot of hard work and most people will never achieve it. Like with sports, for example. An adult can start skating when they are in their 30s and maybe they have a goal of landing a double loop. This is unrealistic but not impossible. Are there adult skaters who started skating in their 30s who can land double loops? Yes! But it's not correct to say that Every one can be able to do that. Most people don't have the time or health to be able to jump like that. I've been skating for 12 years as an adult and I still cannot do more than single rotations. Yes, there may be tens of thousands of people who can do "unrealistic" goals, but there are also 7 billion people in the world. Once you have that perspective, it's understandable why people say certain things are actually unrealistic.
Yes, but even if it would take monumental effort to achieve, why do people feel the need to adjust someone's view on what is realistic to fit their own stunted view? What do they gain by it? My absolute favorite thing to do in fitness is exactly the opposite; make someone realize they're selling themselves short and that what they consider impossible is, in fact, possible with hard work and consistency.10 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"
That's kind of my point; they're projecting their own limitations or lack of commitment onto someone else, after that person has already identified their goal. They act as if it's almost humanly impossible when hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people have already proved it possible. Maybe its insecurity?
It also depends on who is making the "unrealistic" comment. If it's the person's trainer, then the trainer is also trying to cover their own butt and tamp down expectations.1 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"
That's kind of my point; they're projecting their own limitations or lack of commitment onto someone else, after that person has already identified their goal. They act as if it's almost humanly impossible when hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people have already proved it possible. Maybe its insecurity?
It also depends on who is making the "unrealistic" comment. If it's the person's trainer, then the trainer is also trying to cover their own butt and tamp down expectations.
Ahh, I could see that. But that's a trainer that should get fired.2 -
If someone wants a certain goal, depending on what it is I usually indicate the time frame and the amount of hard work involved. I also mention genetics and the fact that they might never get where they want to go (not that they can't, but they might not so try not to be discouraged).
Also some people can never have a certain figure without surgery or help. And even then sometimes nothing can change what you were born with. For example, one woman was 5'2" or something and wanted to look like a Victoria's Secret model. I said there's nothing wrong with having certain physique goals but you also have to be realistic about height and genetic limitations.20 -
If someone wants a certain goal, depending on what it is I usually indicate the time frame and the amount of hard work involved. I also mention genetics and the fact that they might never get where they want to go (not that they can't, but they might not so try not to be discouraged).
Also some people can never have a certain figure without surgery or help. And even then sometimes nothing can change what you were born with. For example, one woman was 5'2" or something and wanted to look like a Victoria's Secret model. I said there's nothing wrong with having certain physique goals but you also have to be realistic about height and genetic limitations.
Oh, I get that totally. What you're doing is being REALISTIC. I'm more talking about things that are difficult but definitely possible. I feel like more and more, an athletic, lean body (male or female) is being viewed as out of reach by society at large.5 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »If someone wants a certain goal, depending on what it is I usually indicate the time frame and the amount of hard work involved. I also mention genetics and the fact that they might never get where they want to go (not that they can't, but they might not so try not to be discouraged).
Also some people can never have a certain figure without surgery or help. And even then sometimes nothing can change what you were born with. For example, one woman was 5'2" or something and wanted to look like a Victoria's Secret model. I said there's nothing wrong with having certain physique goals but you also have to be realistic about height and genetic limitations.
Oh, I get that totally. What you're doing is being REALISTIC. I'm more talking about things that are difficult but definitely possible. I feel like more and more, an athletic, lean body (male or female) is being viewed as out of reach by society at large.
Yea I would not appreciate it if I came on here wanting a certain attainable physique or goal and being told "ya that's not realistic" I don't know if I've seen that example maybe I just don't notice??
I do think that many women (myself included) have completely unrealistic expectations about how our bodies should look because of social media and all that. Poses, angles, photoshop, surgery.. it can be misleading and not always apparent.15 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »If someone wants a certain goal, depending on what it is I usually indicate the time frame and the amount of hard work involved. I also mention genetics and the fact that they might never get where they want to go (not that they can't, but they might not so try not to be discouraged).
Also some people can never have a certain figure without surgery or help. And even then sometimes nothing can change what you were born with. For example, one woman was 5'2" or something and wanted to look like a Victoria's Secret model. I said there's nothing wrong with having certain physique goals but you also have to be realistic about height and genetic limitations.
Oh, I get that totally. What you're doing is being REALISTIC. I'm more talking about things that are difficult but definitely possible. I feel like more and more, an athletic, lean body (male or female) is being viewed as out of reach by society at large.
Yea I would not appreciate it if I came on here wanting a certain attainable physique or goal and being told "ya that's not realistic" I don't know if I've seen that example maybe I just don't notice??
I do think that many women (myself included) have completely unrealistic expectations about how our bodies should look because of social media and all that. Poses, angles, photoshop, surgery.. it can be misleading and not always apparent.
Yes, that is true. I look substantially better with a pump and posed lol7 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »I think the reason people say "unrealistic" is because it requires a lot of hard work and most people will never achieve it. Like with sports, for example. An adult can start skating when they are in their 30s and maybe they have a goal of landing a double loop. This is unrealistic but not impossible. Are there adult skaters who started skating in their 30s who can land double loops? Yes! But it's not correct to say that Every one can be able to do that. Most people don't have the time or health to be able to jump like that. I've been skating for 12 years as an adult and I still cannot do more than single rotations. Yes, there may be tens of thousands of people who can do "unrealistic" goals, but there are also 7 billion people in the world. Once you have that perspective, it's understandable why people say certain things are actually unrealistic.
Yes, but even if it would take monumental effort to achieve, why do people feel the need to adjust someone's view on what is realistic to fit their own stunted view? What do they gain by it? My absolute favorite thing to do in fitness is exactly the opposite; make someone realize they're selling themselves short and that what they consider impossible is, in fact, possible with hard work and consistency.
I was actually trying to point out that what the experts you quoted are saying truthful facts. It's largely due to genetics. For most people, no matter how hard they dedicate themselves to something, some goals can never be achieved. It's good to have goals of course, there is nothing wrong with having unobtainable goals, but it's better to keep calling them unrealistic for the betterment of mental health. Fitness and mental health are closely related. If someone kept telling me that "yes, you can land a double loop! You just have to try harder." And then after 12 years, I still can't, I would quit skating. However, since that isn't the case, I keep skating because I know what limitations I have and have made realistic goals.9 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »I think the reason people say "unrealistic" is because it requires a lot of hard work and most people will never achieve it. Like with sports, for example. An adult can start skating when they are in their 30s and maybe they have a goal of landing a double loop. This is unrealistic but not impossible. Are there adult skaters who started skating in their 30s who can land double loops? Yes! But it's not correct to say that Every one can be able to do that. Most people don't have the time or health to be able to jump like that. I've been skating for 12 years as an adult and I still cannot do more than single rotations. Yes, there may be tens of thousands of people who can do "unrealistic" goals, but there are also 7 billion people in the world. Once you have that perspective, it's understandable why people say certain things are actually unrealistic.
Yes, but even if it would take monumental effort to achieve, why do people feel the need to adjust someone's view on what is realistic to fit their own stunted view? What do they gain by it? My absolute favorite thing to do in fitness is exactly the opposite; make someone realize they're selling themselves short and that what they consider impossible is, in fact, possible with hard work and consistency.
I was actually trying to point out that what the experts you quoted are saying truthful facts. It's largely due to genetics. For most people, no matter how hard they dedicate themselves to something, some goals can never be achieved. It's good to have goals of course, there is nothing wrong with having unobtainable goals, but it's better to keep calling them unrealistic for the betterment of mental health. Fitness and mental health are closely related. If someone kept telling me that "yes, you can land a double loop! You just have to try harder." And then after 12 years, I still can't, I would quit skating. However, since that isn't the case, I keep skating because I know what limitations I have and have made realistic goals.
I'm saying that's wrong. Having a flat stomach or low bf % may be easier with good genetics, but neither is unrealistic. For myself, I have terrible genetics! Your analogy is a matter of ability where what I'm talking about IS a matter of effort. And I'm fine with people telling themselves something is unrealistic, but they have no right putting that on someone else unless asked. Also, they're not experts, they're random people on here telling other people things are unrealistic just because that's how it feels to them.6 -
Without seeing the context of those particular comments, it's hard to say if it was appropriate to use the word unrealistic.
For women (and men too probably), looking like magazine covers and Instagram models is unrealistic or even impossible, considering Photoshop editing etc. Looking somewhat similar might be less unrealistic generally speaking, but unrealistic in the context of that conversation. A lot of people here are just out to lose weight and 'tone up' while living a pretty much ordinary life. In that context, the body they desire might be unrealistic in the sense that it wouldn't be compatible with their lifestyle because it requires a certain amount of effort/time that they probably aren't willing to put in.
But yeah, like I said: no idea in what context these comments were made, might have been appropriate, or not.
Empowering people to reach their goals is great, when the goals are achievable. But a sense of realism is also very valuable (what is possible AND what it takes to achieve it).
But it also pains me to see so many women making themselves miserable by eating foods they don't enjoy, starving themselves and doing exercises they don't enjoy to try to conform to this unrealistic image of the perfect woman that we see in media everywhere. Which is one of the reasons we often tell women here that stomachs of real women in real life often don't look like what they see in the media, and that it's okay: it doesn't mean they aren't allowed to try and look better or that we're discouraging that, but an unrealistic goal only leads to unhappiness and frustration.14 -
Unrealistic and impossible are two very different things. I know of many things that aren't realistic in regards to expectations because that individual isn't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve that particular thing...and sometimes, it's just not going to happen...
Once upon a time I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live...that was a goal of mine, however, it wasn't particularly realistic. There are literally thousands of comedians who would love to get on SNL...wasn't impossible, but not really realistic either...and I pale in compare to many comedians. For awhile I did whatever amateur nights were available at whatever bar, as well as going to more prominent comedy clubs like the "Comedy Store" in LA just trying to meet people and get a slot and a shot.
No amount of me trying was going to get me a slot anywhere or make me a famous comedian. For one thing, there's no way in hell I could have grinded on that full time...I have a wife, kids, home, acres of land and brush, my nine to five, and then some...
Sure...if I gave up absolutely everything? Maybe...but probably not...and frankly I'd rather have my kids and a wonderful life than chasing some crazy dream of being on TV. They mean much more to me and are sitting right next to me and it frankly matters not that I never made it to SNL or made anything other than a bar room comic with cheap jokes that couldn't really hold a candle to the good ones...it was fun and I had that experience...but people were right...not really something you can hang your hat on...and it's not a realistic career..but not at the same time impossible...it happens for some...one can dream, but it doesn't mean it's realistic...7 -
Wow...I think is a great one. I agree with @cwolfman13 , what is unrealistic is NOT impossible. I am living proof of that. I actually have been as low as sub 9% per dexa, probably lower because I dropped another 8 lbs after getting it, and was 6.1 bod pod and 6 % via trained calipers. I had feathered shoulders and would have had ripped abs if it were not for all my loose skin. Would I have ever though that this was possible after being grossly obese for years? Hell no. So, it was not impossible, but realistically maintainable? Well, kept it for almost 2 years. Worst 2 years of my life though. Like being a living anorexic. Actually was diagnosed as anorexic by a therapist. Worth it. **Kitten** no! So, realistic for me is probably in the mid 20's bf and being closer to 225lbs. I tell peoplr who want to lose weight to find a goal, and be happy with half of it. If you are 40% bf, shoot for the moon, but be happy with 20%. JMHO....12
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I think sometimes people need the caveat of "unrealistic" attached to their idealized body type, b/c if they keep fantasizing about this body type and don't achieve it (often ppl want to achieve it quickly), they will give up completely or have adverse psychological effects.
So prefacing some statements with "Yes this body type is achievable, BUT isn't realistic for most people" is just honest. Are most people going to achieve the level of "professional" instagrammer bodies? No, it isn't a realistic goal for most people.12 -
psychod787 wrote: »Wow...I think is a great one. I agree with @cwolfman13 , what is unrealistic is NOT impossible. I am living proof of that. I actually have been as low as sub 9% per dexa, probably lower because I dropped another 8 lbs after getting it, and was 6.1 bod pod and 6 % via trained calipers. I had feathered shoulders and would have had ripped abs if it were not for all my loose skin. Would I have ever though that this was possible after being grossly obese for years? Hell no. So, it was not impossible, but realistically maintainable? Well, kept it for almost 2 years. Worst 2 years of my life though. Like being a living anorexic. Actually was diagnosed as anorexic by a therapist. Worth it. **Kitten** no! So, realistic for me is probably in the mid 20's bf and being closer to 225lbs. I tell peoplr who want to lose weight to find a goal, and be happy with half of it. If you are 40% bf, shoot for the moon, but be happy with 20%. JMHO....
Love this, so much truth. Good job, man!1 -
deputy_randolph wrote: »I think sometimes people need the caveat of "unrealistic" attached to their idealized body type, b/c if they keep fantasizing about this body type and don't achieve it (often ppl want to achieve it quickly), they will give up completely or have adverse psychological effects.
So prefacing some statements with "Yes this body type is achievable, BUT isn't realistic for most people" is just honest. Are most people going to achieve the level of "professional" instagrammer bodies? No, it isn't a realistic goal for most people.
I agree. The statements that bugged me were both to younger people, both already in decent shape regarding a flat stomach and sub 10% bf. It felt like they were imposing that caveat on other people, almost like "since I don't have the dedication, you won't either."5 -
deputy_randolph wrote: »I think sometimes people need the caveat of "unrealistic" attached to their idealized body type, b/c if they keep fantasizing about this body type and don't achieve it (often ppl want to achieve it quickly), they will give up completely or have adverse psychological effects.
So prefacing some statements with "Yes this body type is achievable, BUT isn't realistic for most people" is just honest. Are most people going to achieve the level of "professional" instagrammer bodies? No, it isn't a realistic goal for most people.
Agreed...reminds me of the lady that keeps posting about this booty and that with a bunch of photo-shopped Instagram pictures...also a lady that I know personally who is just skinny and petite and she's never going to have a round muscular butt or big boobs like she wants...she's just not built that way genetically and is beautiful and she just doesn't know it because she is running after something that is basically genetically impossible for her.12 -
For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.10
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For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
i lost 20 lbs 3 years ago and am 5'7 and 131 lbs. i'm post menopausal, had three abdominal surgeries, two kids and there's no way i'm going to lose that pooch. probably had i lost the weight when i was younger maybe i would have. skin at my age *58* doesn't bounce back like someone in their 30's or even forties. but i'm ok with that.7 -
For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
And if you're carrying around the equivalent of a five-month fetus in fibroids, it's unrealistic to think you're going to have a flat belly, either.
But it's good to have a man explain to us that it's wrong to say that it's unrealistic. /s18 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
And if you're carrying around the equivalent of a five-month fetus in fibroids, it's unrealistic to think you're going to have a flat belly, either.
But it's good to have a man explain to us that it's wrong to say that it's unrealistic. /s
To tell someone that they have no idea of their size, medical history, anything that its unrealistic is, in my opinion, projecting a defeatist attitude. If that's mansplaining, sorry not sorry.12 -
@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.6
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@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?4 -
Just gonna weigh in here and say that being overweight/obese most of my life, even after reaching a healthy weight, a totally flat stomach without surgery is kind of unrealistic (for me) because the loose skin always interferes
I'm okay with that, though.
Granted, people often confuse "hard to achieve and maintain" with "unrealistic". Examples: Unrealistic is the teeny photoshopped waists. Unrealistic because photoshop. Hard to achieve and maintain (though not totally impossible) - flat tummy.6 -
I wish people would use "ambitious" rather than "unrealistic".
Saying that's an ambitious goal and you are going to have to work long and hard and may not ever get there is often accurate but shouldn't stop people from striving to be their best even if their best falls short of that ambitious goal.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?
Read it again and you will understand - "try EVEN harder" for emphasis.
When I suffered severe knee injuries a surgeon telling me I had to accept being disabled was a huge motivator to try EVEN harder. It didn't make me try as I was already trying harder than most people would.
When another surgeon with higher ambitions for his patients congratulated me on the progress I had made far and above the norm that was an encouragement to continue and a definite plus.15 -
I train calisthenics. The possibility of me ever being able to hold a full planche or front lever is unrealistic (probably veering into impossible) due to my body weight distribution and leverages. It doesn't stop me from training for it. But if someone told me it was possible for everyone, I would have probably given up training long ago thinking there was something wrong with me. It's the psychology of it. I do like @sijomial's reference to a goal being very ambitious and you may not ever get there though. I think it conveys a similar message, but may not be as off-putting to some people.
I started a thread here where women could share what normal BMI non-photoshopped, non-posed female stomachs looked like along with personal information like % Body fat, age, # years exercising, what types of exercise they do, any medical conditions, # pregnancies, etc. so that women could see a wide range of realistic expectations. There are flat tummies and sagging tummies and everything in between.8
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