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"Unrealistic" body goals
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Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
The bolded is a very important point. Too many try to police others responses to things.8 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
While I get the difficulty of pointing out specific examples of posters who behave as some have described in this thread, as it could be interpreted as violating user terms and conditions I believe, I really do feel like you and some others have built up straw men that you're arguing with. I think it is overwhelmingly more common for posters who think someone is aiming at something unrealistic (like a permanent BF% that competitors only attain in the weeks leading up to a competition, or Barbie-like proportions or looking like a photo-shopped Instagram image that even the person in the photo doesn't look like) to offer advice, questions, and suggestions rather than just a simple "that's unrealistic" with no explanation.8 -
@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.11
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"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
Vince Lombardi
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@lynn_glenmont @kimny72 I get what you are both saying. I’m certainly not arguing with anyone. And I don’t have any examples of negative things being said on here, as I haven’t experienced it or witnessed it. As you said, the OP provided a rather simple example without much context and I responded to his question ‘thoughts?’
I think many people are capable of far more than they allow themselves to believe. That was my original point. That is why I don’t this it’s necessary to tell someone they have “unrealistic” goals. However, as pointed out this was all started as a generalized question. The whole concept of IG, celebrities, and social media images got roped in along the way. Overall, I think comparing yourself to others (especially fake images on the internet) is not healthy. If someone is truly that obsessed with looking like a photoshopped image, there is far bigger issue than “unrealistic” goals they need to figure out and work on. (Which could be a much larger debate on the impact and obsession with social media, etc.)
The frustration with repeat posts of the same topics from the same posters was brought up as well. I get deaf ears can be annoying, but if helpful advice has been exhausted then why engage with the horse who’s standing at the watering hole? It’s simply putting energy into someone who doesn’t want the feedback, is seeking attention, or isn’t willing to put in the effort.0 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
But the truth is that some people are unsuccessful exclusively because their goals are not realistic. They literally have not achieved success -- as they have defined it -- but by a more realistic metric, they would be quite successful.
How many threads have I seen over the years where someone is upset because they've "only" lost ten pounds in three months? The truth is that losing ten pounds in three months is fantastic. Does that make me an annoying MFP jerkface when I point that out to someone (rhetorical question, please don't feel you have to answer)? This person literally just needs a more realistic goal in order to realize what a smashing success they are. Instead, they're posting on the verge of throwing in the towel.
How many threads have I seen with literally jawdroppingly incredible before and after photos demonstrating weight loss, but the OP is upset about loose skin or a bit of a belly pooch and feeling like all their efforts were a waste? The truth is that they've accomplished something that eludes so many.
By their own set goals, these people were not successful. Is that really the truth though?
If someone posts in this position and they're ready to quit, I'm not going to agree that they're a failure. I am going to challenge their goal. Maybe that's patronizing, but really . . . our society doesn't help us set realistic goals. I'm just doing what I would want somebody to do for me if I was beating myself up while missing the great things I'd already achieved.15 -
@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
But the truth is that some people are unsuccessful exclusively because their goals are not realistic. They literally have not achieved success -- as they have defined it -- but by a more realistic metric, they would be quite successful.
How many threads have I seen over the years where someone is upset because they've "only" lost ten pounds in three months? The truth is that losing ten pounds in three months is fantastic. Does that make me an annoying MFP jerkface when I point that out to someone (rhetorical question, please don't feel you have to answer)? This person literally just needs a more realistic goal in order to realize what a smashing success they are. Instead, they're posting on the verge of throwing in the towel.
How many threads have I seen with literally jawdroppingly incredible before and after photos demonstrating weight loss, but the OP is upset about loose skin or a bit of a belly pooch and feeling like all their efforts were a waste? The truth is that they've accomplished something that eludes so many.
And those posts, in themselves, have the potential to be demotivating to other people (readers) who have just started out, have further to go, or who may not have the same genetic potential or opportunities (for whatever reason) to achieve what that poster has achieved at that point. It's complicated.By their own set goals, these people were not successful. Is that really the truth though?
If someone posts in this position and they're ready to quit, I'm not going to agree that they're a failure. I am going to challenge their goal. Maybe that's patronizing, but really . . . our society doesn't help us set realistic goals. I'm just doing what I would want somebody to do for me if I was beating myself up while missing the great things I'd already achieved.
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janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward!11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward!
I agree with you--a "mean people" thread. What bugs me is the vague description of "people" demoralizing posters and their goals. I've seen just the opposite, but nobody talks about that. I don't see anyone that wants a poster to fail. If you don't like the advice given, speak up and help out.4 -
I definitely didn’t say people were giving bad advice (unless someone is just saying that’s unrealistic and leaving it at that- which I said I personally have not seen on here. OP mentioned seeing that, the basis of the original question) or being mean. Lol I was only sharing my opinion; which you’re entitled to think smells like the other thing we all have- I believe people are incredibly capable and shouldn’t limit themselves if they really want to meet a lofty goal, even if others deem it “unrealistic.” (Such as the OP mentioning a 20yo female wanting a flat tummy and being told it’s unrealistic- it’s realistic, I had one, after a baby!) I also said comparison is unhealthy and not where energy should be directed. That is where this post seemed to take a turn to... this concept of people having a goal to look like photoshopped celebrities and heavily filtered IG influencers. Photoshopped and heavily filtered photos on social media are NOT REAL, which makes it quite literally unrealistic. I see no problem with offering constructive advice if someone is 5’2” 180lbs, with an hourglass figure and posting an image of a 5’11” 100lb VS runway model as their goal. Bone structure alone is going to make that unattainable. Which is why I also pointed out that if someone is obsessed with that idea, they have a bigger issue to tackle than “unrealistic” goals, they’re out of touch with REALITY. (Which is becoming more common with all the filtered content in the world). There’s deeper mental work to focus on, other successes will follow.1
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I mostly only see people being "discouraging" when people have potentially injurious goals. "I just started running and am already up to 3 miles in one month! I'm so excited that I'm going to sign up for the local marathon that's in 4 weeks!" or "I NEED to lose 50 lbs by my vacation in 4 weeks. I can't believe I'm 175, ugh, and I NEED to be 125 or I won't be able to have fun. I know I can do it, I'm working out 3 hours a day and eating 700 cals." (Personally, I usually don't bother with those--and I've had overly ambitious training goals, although not to that extreme, and managed without actually doing myself any harm (I just didn't tell anyone about them at the time)--but the people who do jump in are likely more caring than me. I figure people will learn through failure, as we all have from time to time.)
Beyond that, I think there tends to be some discouragement if someone seems to have an ED (needs to be 20 lbs under bottom range of a healthy BMI because otherwise their rolls of fat disgust them). Usually, though, that's gentle encouragement to focus on recomposition or suggesting therapy.
Finally, occasionally someone with a completely different body type will say they cannot be happy unless they look like some celebrity (or as others have said, some influencer who is likely photoshopped). That's not really a matter of trying hard enough or not; it's different from saying I want to reduce my body fat to X (although for a woman there certainly are amounts that would be unhealthy) or bench Y or do Z pullups, even though those all might be incredibly challenging and ambitious goals.
I certainly don't see people discouraging others just because they want to do something hard.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward!
I actually kind of like the occasional meta thread about whether the average mode(s) of advice here are sub-ideal, or subsets of the advice actual damaging, and that sort of thing. As long as it stays in Debate, and at least some of the folks arguing each side are really willing to engage about the implications of various communication approaches, and not just be shouty or flag-wave-y, or post a pointed criticism then flounce off. (This thread has been reasonably OK in that way, to my taste.)
Not always, but sometimes it helps me learn things about others' cognitive styles, and how to communicate effectively to a diverse audience, and that sort of thing. If the topic were a daily deal, it'd get eye-roll-y, but every few months or a year, potentially helpful.
I'm Pollyanna-ing again, eh? 😉6 -
I'm rose-colored glasses kinda gal. I get you, Ann.3
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It is not your goal that enabled you to do what you did in a decade. It was the commitment to a process. I encourage developing a process and see where it leads. Goals may be reasonable or they may prove impossible but a process of improvement will likely take a person to a better place than they started. I have no idea where my process will take me. I know there are limitations but I will push them as far as I can while trying to maintain a proper life balance.
My first goal is the process. It drives me towards better. Eventually better will end with the best I can do. I am sure I will be a combination of pleasantly surprised and slightly annoyed at the limitations.6 -
“A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.”
-Bruce Lee13 -
“A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.”
-Bruce Lee
This.
The specific goals require a level of sacrifice that can, at times, be selfish. I hear the same story from my successful in business friends. To get to that level they had to sacrifice family time. They would often justify it by saying they were trying to provide more for their family but then it falls into that classic trap of want vs need. I got around this dilemma but not having kids and having an equally ambitious partner. I sacrificed health though.
The vague goals require sacrifice too but they don't require as much because there is no specific destination. The level of pressure is not the same as be a CEO of an x million dollar company before 30. It is not all or nothing. We do not get an endless supply of all or nothing goals in a single lifetime. Thinking we do will lead to a bunch of nothing. I had not taken good care of myself for years. I wanted to be better. I kept chipping away at the things that were wrong and let the picture develop on its own. I set intermediate goals when one feels doable. I am a few weeks away from attempting my first 2 day hike. This was unimaginable a little over 2.5 years ago. At that time making it down the sidewalk in front of my house was hard and painful.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward!
I actually kind of like the occasional meta thread about whether the average mode(s) of advice here are sub-ideal, or subsets of the advice actual damaging, and that sort of thing. As long as it stays in Debate, and at least some of the folks arguing each side are really willing to engage about the implications of various communication approaches, and not just be shouty or flag-wave-y, or post a pointed criticism then flounce off. (This thread has been reasonably OK in that way, to my taste.)
Not always, but sometimes it helps me learn things about others' cognitive styles, and how to communicate effectively to a diverse audience, and that sort of thing. If the topic were a daily deal, it'd get eye-roll-y, but every few months or a year, potentially helpful.
I'm Pollyanna-ing again, eh? 😉
We like that about you!
More seriously--and probably this goes to my cognitive style--I'm a hater of this type of thread. To my mind, it's rude, as it calls out everyone in a community and leads people wondering if they are being accused of things or, more likely, if they have been misunderstood, and it also lends itself to strawmanning and people jumping in to share vague beefs (not saying that specifically happened here, just speaking generally).
If I see a post that I find unhelpful in the way OP suggested, I will say so in the thread. Not necessarily in a confrontational way, of course, but by quoting and disagreeing nicely or just encouraging OP or saying I think the goal isn't necessarily unreasonable, even if it might be hard. Or sharing my success at doing something similar, if reasonable, depending on what it is. I don't think anything is ever gained by such general "people on this site are doing vague bad things," especially since you never know who has seen what threads. I think some find disagreeing in a thread more directly as somehow "meaner" than an anonymous complaint thread like this, but I would completely disagree, and would say unlike this kind of thread it actually might have the ability to be productive.5 -
“A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.”
-Bruce Lee
This is how I approach things too. I find lofty goals inspiring, and generally have lots of intermediate goals on the way to mark progress. People definitely are different in the style of goal setting that works for them.3
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