Coronavirus prep
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Here's the quote from the prior discussion here (back on 449):
"But the company’s top doctor has now warned this news doesn’t necessarily mean those who are vaccinated will be unable to transmit the virus to the unvaccinated.
'They do not show that they prevent you from potentially carrying this virus transiently and infecting others,' Moderna Chief Medical Officer Tal Zaks told Axios, adding the public should not “over-interpret the results” of the vaccine yet.
'I think we need to be careful, as we get vaccinated, not to over-interpret the results,' Dr Zaks said. 'When we start the deployment of this vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.'
'Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science,' he added. 'But absent proof, I think it’s important that we don’t change behaviors solely on the basis of vaccination.'...
If it turns out that the vaccines only prevent serious complications of Covid-19 and do not prevent the transmission of the virus from one person to another, then that means “getting back to normal” will take longer and rely on a vast majority of the world population getting vaccinated."
What's odd is this is attributed to an Axios interview, but I couldn't find it (found a transcript of an interview, but not the bit in question), and the papers it is in besides this one [I took it from the independent.co.uk site] are the NY Post and Daily Mail. I tried to find something more about it in a more reputable paper and was not successful, although I don't see any reason to doubt that Zaks said what is reported.
In any case, this seems more consistent with kimny's memory, that it's still undetermined how much it will reduce transmission. I'd say it does cast more doubt on why they would be giving it to kids early on (as the piece on order indicated) in that kids generally don't get sick already now, with extremely rare exception, but as discussed many posts ago now, that order was already questionable in that it's yet to be approved for kids.5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
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kshama2001 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »https://news.yahoo.com/couple-arrested-boarding-flight-testing-040205355.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
Couple arrested for boarding a plane knowing they were covid positive.
I'd like to see a lot more arrests for reckless endangerment:
"...were arrested on charges of second-degree reckless endangerment. They were released after posting bail, which was set at $1,000 each, and are now facing a $2,000 fine and up to a year behind bars if convicted."
Yes the plane thing is over the top for sure but do you realize positive testing health care workers without symptoms can still pull shifts in Covid-19 isolation areas due to staffing shortages and to help protect the negative testing staff? What about doctors and nurses with someone at home with Covid-19?1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »https://news.yahoo.com/couple-arrested-boarding-flight-testing-040205355.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
Couple arrested for boarding a plane knowing they were covid positive.
I'd like to see a lot more arrests for reckless endangerment:
"...were arrested on charges of second-degree reckless endangerment. They were released after posting bail, which was set at $1,000 each, and are now facing a $2,000 fine and up to a year behind bars if convicted."
Yes the plane thing is over the top for sure but do you realize positive testing health care workers without symptoms can still pull shifts in Covid-19 isolation areas due to staffing shortages and to help protect the negative testing staff? What about doctors and nurses with someone at home with Covid-19?
Without justifying or condoning allowing sick personnel to fill gaps in the hospitals ICUs, I would like to mention that they do wear protective equipment that could reduce, and hopefully/maybe eliminate, the spread of the virus, and they are working in isolated areas.
But two COVID positive people, and maybe the child too, just wearing a simple mask seating in a plane full of hopefully negative people for several hours, is way worse.15 -
paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.1 -
I just came across this article and I think that is worthy to share it with all of you.
A few hours of flu-like symptoms? 'Absolutely' worth it for this woman who was in a Covid-19 vaccine trial
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-trial-participant/index.html7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
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My understanding is that some vaccines currently in use for other viruses are "protective" - meaning you still become infected and shed the virus, but don't get sick. Other vaccines currently in use (I think most of them) are "sterilizing" - meaning you will not get infected or shed, the virus just passes through you.
I think a protective vaccine can still help control spread by limiting the amount of time an infected person carries and sheds the virus, but would still leave at some (possibly substantial, I don't know) risk anyone who isn't vaccinated. I don't believe they have enough data yet to tell if any of the covid vaccines in trials could be sterilizing, especially the RNA vaccines as these are the first ever. So we probably have to assume that the vaccinated could still act as vectors until proven otherwise, and masks at least should still be required.
The goal is a sterilizing vaccine regardless, because that's how you get herd immunity.
Unfortunately I doubt any of that is obvious to most people. I've only learned this through a lot of research because I'm geeking out on this. I am really hoping messaging in the US will improve soon, and it will be easier for people open to learning to do so.
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I just came across this article and I think that is worthy to share it with all of you.
A few hours of flu-like symptoms? 'Absolutely' worth it for this woman who was in a Covid-19 vaccine trial
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-trial-participant/index.html
Yes, that message is important! It does sound like a reasonable minority will feel legit sick like that for several hours to a day, so this is something else I hope gets communicated. Feeling sick or fatigued for 24 hours afterward won't mean something's wrong. Luckily it sounds like it's the 2nd shot that's causing most of it, so at least hopefully it won't cause people to get the 1st but skip the 2nd!1 -
paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
@kimny72 gave a very good explanation for the 2 different types of vaccines. I'll acknowledge we don't have all the information on all of the different vaccine candidates for Covid. However, what has been shared tells us that Moderna's for sure is a "protective" vaccine and I thought there was something on one of the others as well that indicated it is a "protective" vaccine (would have to look for it). For the others, nothing has indicated either way. Considering the development timeline, it seems unlikely they would be "sterilizing" vaccines.1 -
No, we don't know. I quoted the bit about the Moderna vaccine just a page or so ago (it's the same thing that was in the thread earlier), and they don't know if it prevents/reduces transmission yet (from what I've read they think it likely reduces it at least).
Same with Pfizer's: https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-chairman-not-clear-people-spread-covid-19-after-vaccine-2020-12. They simply have not studied that yet.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
@kimny72 gave a very good explanation for the 2 different types of vaccines. I'll acknowledge we don't have all the information on all of the different vaccine candidates for Covid. However, what has been shared tells us that Moderna's for sure is a "protective" vaccine and I thought there was something on one of the others as well that indicated it is a "protective" vaccine (would have to look for it). For the others, nothing has indicated either way. Considering the development timeline, it seems unlikely they would be "sterilizing" vaccines.
The development timeline, I believe, doesn't in itself strictly determine or relate to whether a vaccine is protective or sterilizing. The mRNA vaccines in particular are a very new approach, which limits predictability of their behavior. In news reports quoted earlier in the thread, representatives of the companies are being very conservative in their statements, i.e., saying that it is *not* proven that the new vaccines are sterilizing. It's unknown at this point (and *that* - the lack of definitive answer) may have something to do with the development timeline.
I haven't seen/heard any basis for assuming one way or the other, personally. I think it's an open question; that is they *may* be sterilizing: TBD. They *are* protective: Shown in trials.
My understanding, also, is consistent with something (that I think) Kimny said: That even a protective-only vaccine can limit the amount of time a vaccinated person could be shedding communicable virus, even if it doesn't completely stop them from spreading the virus to unvaccinated people. Even a shortened shedding period would limit spread somewhat.
However, I'm not any kind of expert, this is just my understanding from reports I've followed.6 -
So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.2
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
Humans were programmed with a strong death wish perhaps. Maybe we are just lazy. In my case the lightbulb did not come on until I was rushing towards a misable death at the age of 63 in 2014.
I have family that still think that Type 2 Diabetes is a disease instead of being a side effect of their Eating Lifestyle.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
I have had this same complaint. If there are variables that one has control over, why not make the effort.
On a related note, not sure where I heard it, but likely the evening news. But a gastric by pass doctor reported he was getting deluged with surgery requests. So maybe, some people are thinking the right way.
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SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
If people can’t even heed the public health guideline to wear a mask, do you seriously think they will take the advice to lose weight?
No amount of “messaging” has EVER resulted in people making a lifestyle change that they do not want to make.
People already know that being obese can result in early death. Does that knowledge have any effect on obesity rates? Nope.
Spending public money on a campaign like that would be a waste of money in my opinion.23 -
SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?
The vaccination doesn't *cause* the shedding.
The issue about shedding arises when a vaccinated person later encounters an infected person. What's unknown is whether the vaccinated person gets "infected enough" in that scenario, while their body is successfully (symptomlessly) fighting it off, to temporarily become a carrier.
As long as you don't get infected with Covid after your vaccination, but before your family's vaccination achieves immunity for them, the issue doesn't arise.
And the side effects of the vaccination are not all that lengthy/severe for most people, anyway - not debilitating, commonly; and only lasting hours to a day or so, commonly, per reports.6 -
SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?
You don't shed the virus after vaccination...at least not with the RNA or spike protein vaccines. If you become infected, then you may shed it. Sorry if this is what you meant.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
I agree with the above statement, but I would like to remind you that even in the absence of co-morbidities people can and were infected by the virus and ended in a ventilator or even dead.
Some co-morbidities can't be eliminated. Such as diabetes type 1, RA, cancer, heart arrhythmias (like A Fib), COPD (not caused by smoking), asthma, and autoimmune disorders in general. They can only be controlled by medication. I am sure that those suffering from these diseases would like to have a magic way to eliminate them from their daily suffering, even in the absence of COVID.
I also agree that a healthy lifestyle and weight control could be addressed by health authorities and controlled by the population, but I don't think that people would be very receptive to hear about it right now (unless you are part of MFP).
If people are rejecting the request of wearing masks to save lives, including their own, do you think that they would be receptive to the idea of eating healthy and controlling their weight right now? I don't think so. Many people are out of work and reaching for the help given by Food Banks for their next meal, and I don't think that they are very concerned about what kind of food they get or how much of it, as long as they have something to feed their families. Would you????
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
I hope this disease acts as a wake up call to those who are obese and don’t yet have other serious health complications, although I doubt it will. People magazine in particular keeps flooding my feed with articles about “previously healthy 12 year old” and “32 year old mother of two” who have died of Covid, and it seems like in every single case the photo of the deceased shows a morbidly obese person. It’s tragic.
In many cases it’s not that simple - I was obese, I developed type 2 diabetes, and then I lost 125 lbs, got fit, controlled my diet, and improved my a1c and other numbers to within normal ranges. But I am still diabetic and always will be. And studies show that even well-controlled diabetes like mine remains a risk factor for serious complications and death from Covid.16 -
Some co-morbidities can't be eliminated. Such as diabetes type 1, RA, cancer, heart arrhythmias (like A Fib), COPD (not caused by smoking), asthma, and autoimmune disorders in general. They can only be controlled by medication. I am sure that those suffering from these diseases would like to have a magic way to eliminate them from their daily suffering, even in the absence of COVID.
Agreed! I have idiopathic (inherited) hypertension although I am not overweight, exercise daily, do not consume alcohol or caffeine, don't smoke, and eat a fairly "healthy" diet that is at least 50% fruit and veg. It takes a three-medication cocktail to control my blood pressure at an acceptable level. At my last dr's visit it was creeping up again and I was supposed to have my meds reassessed in March... oops.
Although I think of myself as a 57 year old with above average health, apparently my hypertension puts me at somewhat greater risk, mitigated to some extent by the fact that it's controlled. Yet there are no lifestyle factors I can alter at this point.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
My answer to that would be because simple messages hit home.
If one tries to have a message about, for example, getting regular pap smears - one doesnt throw in getting regular FOBT's and regular general check ups and vaccinations, and surgery is open x time to do it and the turn around time for results is x and if result is positive or negative, x is next step and other relevant but TLDR and now nobody is getting any message at all.
Simple poster: get a pap smear every 5 years.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
Interestingly (to me 😉), when the word started getting out about higher mortality among those obese/inactive, I did see some instances over in the "Introductions" and "Getting Started" where people were talking about this issue finally pushing them to undertake weight loss and exercise. So, I think some people probably did metaphorically get that memo.
I haven't noticed whether any of the folks still hanging around and succeeding were among those who used that as motivation to start. I think we all know that quick quits are a pretty common thing in weight loss, no matter the reason for starting; and relapses common even after some good success. I'd be surprised if the odds differed.
Also, it appears (from comments in other parts of the forum) that even some long-term maintainers have struggled during the pandemic with overeating, experiencing some regain (comfort eating, changes in routine because of WFM, unavailability of preferred exercise, etc.).
So, I share an earlier commenter's cynicism about the value of public health messages that might try to use Covid complications and comorbidities as a motivator for better health practices. Those messages pretty much never work in a big way, and are probably even less likely to work under current circumstances. There are higher-priority ways to spend the marketing-message money right now, related to virus spread mitigation, not to mention the funding need for economic relief, food relief, etc.12 -
In spite of obesity being one of many conditions for not surviving from contracting COVID-19, there is a very simple solution, easy for ALL to follow, that has been preached from early days. Wear a face covering, social distance, and wash hands. Too many people disregard this, and have from the beginning. This has been the major contributor to the rampant spread of this virus in the US. Yet people continue to gather for holidays, weddings, funerals etc, and spread exposure to covid, that most likely won’t change during the upcoming holidays , that will be closing out this horrible year.
Singling out people that are obese is unfair. Losing weight is basic, eat less calories than your body burns. It wasn’t easy before COVID-19, isn’t easy during Covid-19, and won’t be easy after COVID-19. If it were easy there wouldn’t be sites like MFP. Singling out this risk factor seems judgmental and unfair. Walk a mile in their shoes. IMHO.19 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »In spite of obesity being one of many conditions for not surviving from contracting COVID-19, there is a very simple solution, easy for ALL to follow, that has been preached from early days. Wear a face covering, social distance, and wash hands. Too many people disregard this, and have from the beginning. This has been the major contributor to the rampant spread of this virus in the US. Yet people continue to gather for holidays, weddings, funerals etc, and spread exposure to covid, that most likely won’t change during the upcoming holidays , that will be closing out this horrible year.
Singling out people that are obese is unfair. Losing weight is basic, eat less calories than your body burns. It wasn’t easy before COVID-19, isn’t easy during Covid-19, and won’t be easy after COVID-19. If it were easy there wouldn’t be sites like MFP. Singling out this risk factor seems judgmental and unfair. Walk a mile in their shoes. IMHO.
Pointing out that obesity and it's related health issues as something to work on to control the impact of Covid is not any more "unfair" than singling out unmasked individuals. Obesity along with smoking are really the only comorbidly factors an individual can control, just like wearing a mask.
Some people also say wearing a mask isn't easy but we all know they should be doing it.
I disagree. Simply from the fact that wearing masks etc, is a an effective courtesy to others, and slows the spread. There are many more people carelessly exposing others to COVID-19, than there are obese people dying from Covid-19. By now, obese people know it’s a risk factor. It’s unnecessary to be pointed out, or singled out from any other risk factor.
Clearly, some people need to be reminded, incessantly, about what is spreading Covid-19, that has become the leading cause of death in the US in the past few days.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
My answer to that would be because simple messages hit home.
If one tries to have a message about, for example, getting regular pap smears - one doesnt throw in getting regular FOBT's and regular general check ups and vaccinations, and surgery is open x time to do it and the turn around time for results is x and if result is positive or negative, x is next step and other relevant but TLDR and now nobody is getting any message at all.
Simple poster: get a pap smear every 5 years.
Simple poster, "lose weight, reduce your chance of complications from Covid".
Do you really think that would convince a single person to lose weight?
Is there anyone out there that would say, “well, I knew my obesity could cause heart disease, stroke, diabetes, osteoarthritis, high blood pressure, etc, but now that I know it could cause Covid complications, I’m going to do something about it!”
I just don’t think that’s realistic for an ad campaign. People who won’t listen to their own doctors won’t listen to a poster.11 -
Related to weight. My extended family is like a poster child of comorbidities. So far, I know of one person that has taken some steps (out of like 15 to 20) to lose weight and get in better shape. Most of the rest have packed on more weight during Coronavirus.
I think when you see the pictures of those that have passed, most are elderly or overweight. So unless someone is burying their heads in the sand (which when it comes to weight, many do), they won't listen anyway.
But as a country, we do need to do a much better job in confronting those that are overweight with the reality of their health. In the US, we treat people with kid gloves compared to Europe when it comes to wellness and direct weight counseling from the healthcare community. It's not PC to tell someone here that they really need to lose weight.
I remember years ago when I was at my heaviest and a doc said, "well, you'll likely die from your heart stopping, like most of us". I felt he was kind of being trite and evasive. I was looking for someone to tell me, "yeah buddy, you better lose weight or bad things will happen...". Doctors, at least here in the US, are much more hesitant to have that conversation than in other countries. Likely because they get so much pushback. Also, our entire medical system, with it being a paid model with very little wellness care, is severely broken. We concentrate on acute care and emergencies only.13 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Related to weight. My extended family is like a poster child of comorbidities. So far, I know of one person that has taken some steps (out of like 15 to 20) to lose weight and get in better shape. Most of the rest have packed on more weight during Coronavirus.
I think when you see the pictures of those that have passed, most are elderly or overweight. So unless someone is burying their heads in the sand (which when it comes to weight, many do), they won't listen anyway.
But as a country, we do need to do a much better job in confronting those that are overweight with the reality of their health. In the US, we treat people with kid gloves compared to Europe when it comes to wellness and direct weight counseling from the healthcare community. It's not PC to tell someone here that they really need to lose weight.
I remember years ago when I was at my heaviest and a doc said, "well, you'll likely die from your heart stopping, like most of us". I felt he was kind of being trite and evasive. I was looking for someone to tell me, "yeah buddy, you better lose weight or bad things will happen...". Doctors, at least here in the US, are much more hesitant to have that conversation than in other countries. Likely because they get so much pushback. Also, our entire medical system, with it being a paid model with very little wellness care, is severely broken. We concentrate on acute care and emergencies only.
JW, where are you seeing photos of people who died of covid?2
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