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Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Some info gleaned from my podcast listening...
The FDA is having a hearing today to determine whether the Pfizer vaccine will be approved for immediate use. If it is, the expectation of professionals involved is that most US healthcare workers will have the opportunity to get vaccinated by the end of this month. Then January will be opened up to "essential workers" outside of healthcare however that is defined by authorities. It sounds like the initial shipment from Pfizer is supposed to be enough to cover these at least. Next up would be folks over 65, assuming there is stock available. Moderna's schedule was just a couple of weeks behind Pfizer, so I'd guess an FDA hearing for that one would be scheduled soon as well.
People will be given a card when they get the first shot noting which vaccine they got and telling them to get the 2nd in @ 21 days. They are estimating that the average person does get "some" immunity from just the first dose. It takes up to 7 days from the 2nd shot to develop whatever the full complement of antibodies will be.
It sounds like the Pfizer vaccine will actually be shipped in deep-freeze containers, so only the dry ice needs to be replaced.
Trials are now starting to test the vaccines in those aged 12-18, and won't be approved for minors until some data from those studies comes out.
They also talked about a paper that was published about long-haulers or those with lingering symptoms. It still isn't understood, but the paper suggests that 1 in 8 people still have symptoms after a month, and 1 in 50 still have symptoms after 3 months, but this is still relying on minimal data.
Also the J & J vaccine stage 3 trial should be releasing it's initial data soon, that one is one shot.7 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I've seen plenty of articles about the questions healthcare workers must consider when they decide which patients they don't treat... which patients they are going to send home to die. That's not something I've seen before from any flu season.
Curious. Do we know that those patients being sent home are being triaged in such a way that they are being sent home to die? Or could it be that they are the most mild cases? Or that it is just bad luck that they are arriving when no beds are available?
If you're being sent home and dying of Covid, it seems reasonable to assume that you are not one of the "most mild" cases unless "mild case" has taken on a whole new meaning of which I'm unaware.
@janejellyroll My comment was referencing the specific phrase of "send home to die". My interpretation of that phrase is an intentional act like the person is being deemed too much work to warrant the effort and therefore being sent home where they are expected to die. Your comment is along the alternate interpretation of "send them home where they happen to die" and of course the subset of people sent home that end up dying are of course not the mild cases but it could be that they were sent home because they were not expected to die, but did. I was trying to find our from @T1DCarnivoreRunner whether his phrasing was the intentional act, as it reads, and that hopeless cases are being triaged to be sent home to die, or are they mild cases with unexpected deaths.
These are from earlier in the year, but it does appear that at least two cities had instances where hard-hit hospitals were sending non-mild cases home to die, specifically because it was determined they would die: https://www.propublica.org/article/sent-home-to-die#:~:text=In New Orleans, hospitals sent,begged them to keep trying.&text=ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article244443257.html
The most vivid terrible media memory I've had from this whole thing was when the young man from Italy had to wait three days for someone to pick up his dead sister (in his small home) because the entire system was so overwhelmed. I don't like to think we are close to that here, but we're not far off, unfortunately.
And I'm sorry if this "tone" isn't pleasant to hear. But it sucks a lot worse for the healthcare workers than it does us.
I remember seeing a story from a European country, might have been Spain but not sure now. The father died from Covid in his own home since no hospital beds for him. The mother and daughters were sleeping on the front balcony since the house was smelling so bad from the dead body. No room at the morgue either. That is really bad and so very very sad.
Another thing too. I have a friend in USA that has had Covid twice now. She was sent home recently hardly able to take a breath. Guess there wasn't enough beds there.5 -
Nothing surprising here, but this is the US VA's plan for rolling out Pfizer vaccinations. (Well, I guess the fact that it's only going to initially be in 37 facilities nationwide is of note. There's an update to that in the second link.)
https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5580
https://federalnewsnetwork.com/veterans-affairs/2020/12/va-warns-of-long-process-to-distribute-covid-19-vaccine-to-employees-and-veterans/
“Can you handle the distribution, and then is that an adequate amount for the largest healthcare system in the nation?” Jon Tester (D-Mont.), ranking member of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, said Wednesday at a hearing on VA’s COVID-19 response.
“It is not an adequate amount, and this will be a long process for us to reach all 7 million veterans who we believe will want vaccination from us, as well as all 400,000 employees of the agency,” Stone told the committee. “We do anticipate weekly distribution, and it remains to be seen how robust that weekly distribution will be.”
...As of Wednesday, 37 VA sites were equipped with the proper freezers needed to support the Pfizer vaccine. Stone said he’s expecting a shipment of another 36 freezers, meaning VA may eventually have a total of 73 sites that are equipped to receive an initial shipment of Pfizer vaccines, once it’s approved.3 -
UK has started vaccinating.
From what I read, not for people under 16, pregnant women and people with severe allergies - but once supplies are sufficient, everyone else can have the vaccine.
So far starting only with vulnerable aged.
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re the 'but the economy' argument.
I think it is far less disruptive to the economy to do strong early lockdown measures from which you then emerge with Covid controlled (aka Australia, New Zealand scenario) than to drag it out doing little whilst disease impact gets worse and worse. (aka US scenario)18 -
Question for the Australia and New Zealand posters...
With few to no cases, how do you feel personally about getting the vaccine as soon as you can? Will you get it as soon as it’s available to you, or will you wait?0 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Question for the Australia and New Zealand posters...
With few to no cases, how do you feel personally about getting the vaccine as soon as you can? Will you get it as soon as it’s available to you, or will you wait?
I'll get it when I'm able but Im watching closely whats happening overseas with it. There's months yet before I'll be eligible so I'll have the benefit of seeing how it goes over there first.5 -
While I am thrilled for australia that all is going well for that country and I sincerely hope that continues. But to those who feel that applying those same policies to the US would have been appropriate, I need to point out that the worldwide ramifications of shutting down Australia and the US are not comparable. The US is much more significant in the world economy and therefore shutting the US down impacts much more than itself. I do not, and never will, envy those that have to balance all the factors and make the decisions.
Except that with something as simple as masking, which apparently some people seem to think is akin to a human rights violation...if we would ALL just do that, we might not need more drastic measures. Wearing a mask does NOT equal shutting the country down. So many drama queens in this country. It's hard to take people seriously anymore they are so full of B.S.28 -
I will have the vaccine as soon as I am allowed although I am concerned about the to medical staff in UK that had anaphylaxis as they are allergic to things and I'd say it'll happen to me too since I've had anaphylaxis before but hey they'll have adrenaline to counteract it so I hope I'd be safe. Maybe.5
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Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »This supports what we were all thinking, that it was in the US far before the first "documented" case..The virus that causes COVID-19 may have been in the US as early as mid-December 2019, a month before the first confirmed case, based on antibodies found in donated blood. Widespread community transmission likely did not occur until February 2020.
https://bit.ly/36k3gzI.
IntereNoreenmarie1234 wrote: »This supports what we were all thinking, that it was in the US far before the first "documented" case..The virus that causes COVID-19 may have been in the US as early as mid-December 2019, a month before the first confirmed case, based on antibodies found in donated blood. Widespread community transmission likely did not occur until February 2020.
https://bit.ly/36k3gzI.
Interesting. I know two ladies in their 60s who had bad pneumonia in December 2019, long before the name COVID was given to the current disease. One of them says she noticed an unusual amount of emergency activity during the time she was in that private hospital then.2 -
Thankfully the people who were affected by the vaccine are well again now. These were people who had to carry eppi (sp?) pens, for their allergies/reactions so their reactions are stronger than often happens. I'm sure now the authorities are aware of the issue those who always have these pens to hand will be offered another product when one becomes available.
Hearing a scientist yesterday, he was saying reactions happen to proteins and there are no proteins in this vaccine. Frome experience there could be reactions to something else in the product I suggest preservatives, some other vaccines contain antibiotics, though its possible its too small an amount for the vast majorities systems to notice.2 -
I've been keeping a very close eye on N Dakota and S Dakota. These states were about the closest thing to an experiment in attempted herd immunity that we have in the US. I suppose the good news is that deaths are starting to go down finally (or tapering off a bit), perhaps because they reached such a saturation point. It is quite astounding that both states, with as rural as both are, are approaching death per capita numbers of the packed populations of NY and NJ, even despite the fact that therapeutics have gotten better, the strain has gotten less deadly and NY and NJ got hit before they knew how to take precautions. It's mind boggling. With that said, N Dakota's numbers spiked again yesterday. Nearly 15% in the state have already had it (by testing). So they are likely approaching 30 to 40% now. There was a lot of debate on if there even could be a herd immunity and how high that number would need to get. Some scientists thought it only needed to be in the high 40s. Sad that these states are nearly there already.
If there's a positive spin, I suppose even if you do everything wrong, even intentionally, the numbers aren't as high as some early models predicted in terms of deaths. If you extrapolate the N Dakota and S Dakota numbers, the entire US won't see the worst numbers we've heard early on, but they will be bad. We will hit 300K deaths this weekend.5 -
@MikePfirrman
I agree. Both states were no mandatory mask edicts. SD ran out of hospital beds and had to send patients to other states. Leadership poor at state and National levels led to these consequences. Still denial.🤷🏻♀️
It isn’t a hard decision to make. That’s what medical advisors are for. To advise leadership. They need to listen to the experts.11 -
missysippy930 wrote: »@MikePfirrman
I agree. Both states were no mandatory mask edicts. SD ran out of hospital beds and had to send patients to other states. Leadership poor at state and National levels led to these consequences. Still denial.🤷🏻♀️
It isn’t a hard decision to make. That’s what medical advisors are for. To advise leadership. They need to listen to the experts.
Just heard on the news that the new models predict that 30K lives in the US will be saved by April with the vaccine roll out. Of course these numbers are fluid and will change up or down (we hope up). That's a great number but it will only represent, by that time, around 7% of the number already dead. Meaning, essentially, we got pretty darn close to basically herd immunity before the vaccine came out. We've followed the Spanish flu model so close it's not funny and after the second season, it nearly died out (same as will likely happen by late Spring/early Summer in current times).
I'm not minimizing 30K lives at all. That's fantastic. But yeah, if leadership hadn't said rely on the vaccine and not the mask early on, we'd be talking an entirely different narrative.12 -
Comes now a story from Johnson City, TN -- not too far from me -- about at least one severely ill patient who still did not believe in COVID-19. That's one step beyond "I didn't think leopards would eat my face." No, it's "I don't believe in leopards" whilst leopards eat your face. I can't grok it.
Not shocked. Went to school at ETSU and lived in Jonesborough for 14 years. I know some medical people at JCMC and other nearby hospitals. It's a mess there, people don't care.4 -
Comes now a story from Johnson City, TN -- not too far from me -- about at least one severely ill patient who still did not believe in COVID-19. That's one step beyond "I didn't think leopards would eat my face." No, it's "I don't believe in leopards" whilst leopards eat your face. I can't grok it.
That's knocking on my back door. I literally live a 20-25 min drive from the city proper just because I'm out in the county. My oldest daughter is enrolled in their university. Of course her classes have all been virtual.
Unfortunately, this statement comes as ZERO surprise to me. That attitude is rampant here.6 -
missysippy930 wrote: »While I am thrilled for australia that all is going well for that country and I sincerely hope that continues. But to those who feel that applying those same policies to the US would have been appropriate, I need to point out that the worldwide ramifications of shutting down Australia and the US are not comparable. The US is much more significant in the world economy and therefore shutting the US down impacts much more than itself. I do not, and never will, envy those that have to balance all the factors and make the decisions.
Even if the US does have a bigger impact on the world economy, (and I’m not totally convinced that it does) it doesn’t change the fact that basic preventative measures have never been endorsed at the highest level in the US. Australia isn’t the only country that has this simple measure in place, and it works.
The US isn’t shut down, nor does it need to be to control spread of covid. If EVERYONE followed the guidelines set by professionals that are well qualified and well informed about how covid is spread, and how to lessen the spread, there would be a different scenario right now. Would it be eradicated? Definitely not, but it would be more manageable, less people contracting it, and less people dying from it. Isn’t that preferable to what we have.
This American agrees with you 100%. Hubs and I were looking at our state's numbers. We as a state have almost 5 times the cases and deaths in one state as you all do in your entire country. And as the oft repeated refrain goes these days: "And it didn't have to be this way."
This year has been really good at exposing all our unsavory underlying conditions as a country. I do hope that enough of us will learn these lessons so that we can improve as a country and community.11 -
baconslave wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »While I am thrilled for australia that all is going well for that country and I sincerely hope that continues. But to those who feel that applying those same policies to the US would have been appropriate, I need to point out that the worldwide ramifications of shutting down Australia and the US are not comparable. The US is much more significant in the world economy and therefore shutting the US down impacts much more than itself. I do not, and never will, envy those that have to balance all the factors and make the decisions.
Even if the US does have a bigger impact on the world economy, (and I’m not totally convinced that it does) it doesn’t change the fact that basic preventative measures have never been endorsed at the highest level in the US. Australia isn’t the only country that has this simple measure in place, and it works.
The US isn’t shut down, nor does it need to be to control spread of covid. If EVERYONE followed the guidelines set by professionals that are well qualified and well informed about how covid is spread, and how to lessen the spread, there would be a different scenario right now. Would it be eradicated? Definitely not, but it would be more manageable, less people contracting it, and less people dying from it. Isn’t that preferable to what we have.
This American agrees with you 100%. Hubs and I were looking at our state's numbers. We as a state have almost 5 times the cases and deaths in one state as you all do in your entire country. And as the oft repeated refrain goes these days: "And it didn't have to be this way."
This year has been really good at exposing all our unsavory underlying conditions as a country. I do hope that enough of us will learn these lessons so that we can improve as a country and community.
I find myself frequently pondering Yeats: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
I wouldn't say the best lack ALL conviction, but we've certainly got the passionate intensity covered.8 -
Friend is going to be one of the first non-test people to get vaccinated any day now. He's a pharmacist for a major chain and will be going out to vaccinate the medical community and nursing homes.13
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Comes now a story from Johnson City, TN -- not too far from me -- about at least one severely ill patient who still did not believe in COVID-19. That's one step beyond "I didn't think leopards would eat my face." No, it's "I don't believe in leopards" whilst leopards eat your face. I can't grok it.
Not shocked. Went to school at ETSU and lived in Jonesborough for 14 years. I know some medical people at JCMC and other nearby hospitals. It's a mess there, people don't care.
Fellow ETSU alumni here.
I don't think anyone believes me when I tell the stories of what I'm dealing with here. I get the feeling you know EXACTLY where I'm coming from.
Way too many REALLY don't care to an alarming degree. We are basically trapped at home with the exception of one person going to the grocery store, masked and armed with sanitizer. My inlaws are having a biggish Xmas shindig tomorrow. People who will attend are exactly the ones who shouldn't be.
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