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COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
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hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
That - the graphic - is really quite clever. Broadly, the statements are not strictly false, IMU. But they're very carefully selected and written to exclude important relevant context, and put together in a misleading way to imply a false big picture.
It reminds me quite a lot of http://dhmo.org/ , actually.
Life insurance, as a generality, covers deaths from Coronavirus. Does it cover deaths from the vaccine? Someone who's not worried about a disease they say is 99% survivable shouldn't be worried about insurance payout from something with a much, much lower mortality rate, it seems like . . . particularly if that person doesn't intend to get the vaccine. (I don't know for sure whether you plan to get the vaccine or not, of course.) Canada's Life and Health Insurance Association has issued a statement saying that rumors of non-coverage for vaccine deaths are false, for Canada. I wasn't able to find a similar statement from the US at this point, which is not an indication that the rumor is true (especially because I didn't search very diligently because I. Don't. Care.).
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.35 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.26 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
Yup.
FWIW, the month one VAERS analysis is on the CDC web site, and includes the causes of death to the extent they'd been identified at that point, plus talks about the age groups involved. Your inferences are correct, as I read it. I didn't provide the link to the CDC VAERS analysis, because those who think the CDC is not a reliable source don't care, and I don't really feel motivated to make it easy to go down that rabbit hole after a bunch of details anyway. 😉
Much more could be written to critique the PP, but debunking misinformation isn't really my main hobby 😆, more just a side gig.
None of this should be taken is a negative comment about your post, because it isn't intended that way in the slightest. 🙂9 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
Soooooo......we're supposed to weigh the possibility of death from the vaccine or the virus? Made my decision---you?20 -
Nobody claims vaccines are without risk.
As with all medications it is a risk vs benefit analysis.
Happy to have sensible discussions about that.
A post starting with ' poisons don't heal ' and giving a graphic with no source cited doesn't seem a good starting point though
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What does ' poison will not heal' even mean in context of this topic??
Nobody claims vaccines will heal - obviously they are a prophylactic measure, not a curative measure.
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Well, my husband and I are getting our first dose of the Moderna vaccine this morning. At this point in time, there’s no choice, so it’s a moot point, but if I could choose, it would be J & J, also because of one and done. I’m having a slight bout of trepidation, but no more than for any shot I’d be getting.
[edited by MFP Mods]hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
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@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.23 -
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" I am not doing the research for you" is the typical cop out of people who do not have credible sources of information.
If you think your sources are credible and you have genuine findings, share them..
People on MFP are usually interested in science and medical findings.,
What you are posting seems the usual anti vaccine scaremongering nonsense to me.
Thread has been going well so far - could you not hijack it with unfounded anti vaccine propaganda please.67 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.
kinda funny you claim that you are "not here to do the research" for us - no one is asking you to do that. but when you are making wild claims that are just not true, you should be able to back them up with something that is more than just a flyer.
everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you are presenting yours as facts without backing anything up!37 -
We are all entitled to our own opinion - we are not entitled to our own facts.
Neither are we entitled to hijack threads with scaremongering nonsense.41 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.
Sodium chloride is literally salt. Potassium chloride is a commonly used food additive (E508) used to replace salt. Monobasic potassium phosphate is used in sports drinks like Gatorade. Aluminum is commonly found in things like baking flour, baked goods and chocolates. Are you also saying we should research alternative websites about bread, salt and chocolate before consuming any? Are you doing that?
I would also be jailed if I tried to jab my child with a vaccination syringe and push breastmilk into the kid. Different healthy things have different means of administering them. So, what's your point?
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All of the over 70 people in my life are vaxxed now and I can actually start to feel more comfortable around them, which is such a huge weight off my shoulders
I now check my emails way too much and answer unid phone calls I usually wouldn't, just in case it's a call to make an appt or grab one someone didn't show up for.
The state of VA rollout has been awful, so I doubt I'll get the opportunity anytime soon, but I'm ready whenever!26 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.
Sodium chloride is literally salt. Potassium chloride is a commonly used food additive (E508) used to replace salt. Monobasic potassium phosphate is used in sports drinks like Gatorade. Aluminum is commonly found in things like baking flour, baked goods and chocolates. Are you also saying we should research alternative websites about bread, salt and chocolate before consuming any? Are you doing that?
I would also be jailed if I tried to jab my child with a vaccination syringe and push breastmilk into the kid. Different healthy things have different means of administering them. So, what's your point?
I'm really glad I had the option to eat my breakfast scone instead of injecting it into my arm and none of my reasons why have anything to do with the aluminum in my baking powder.16 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.4 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.8 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.
Funny my mom is 87 and lives in a congregate seniors setting so she was prioritized for the vaccine. She kept telling me "I don't know why they are giving it to me first, why don't they give it to you young people who have to go out to work."
I tried to explain to her that the risk was higher where she was without scaring her (we had so very many seniors die here in Ontario in long term care it was heartbreaking). Finally I just told her she has to take it and if she refused it's not like they would give it to us anyway.
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As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.
Funny my mom is 87 and lives in a congregate seniors setting so she was prioritized for the vaccine. She kept telling me "I don't know why they are giving it to me first, why don't they give it to you young people who have to go out to work."
I tried to explain to her that the risk was higher where she was without scaring her (we had so very many seniors die here in Ontario in long term care it was heartbreaking). Finally I just told her she has to take it and if she refused it's not like they would give it to us anyway.
Yup. I’m convinced the people deciding the vaccine orders have had some very difficult discussions and weighed multiple viewpoints to find an ethical and effective balance. Just glad it’s not my job. Lately I’ve been entertaining myself by reading the open-letter section of a major newspaper, it’s mostly thinkpieces of why group X, Y or Z should be prioritized in getting vaccinated. Most of them have some variation of ”why is nobody thinking of XYZ” in them - I’m pretty sure that has been thought of, but something else was simply more critical.5 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.
Funny my mom is 87 and lives in a congregate seniors setting so she was prioritized for the vaccine. She kept telling me "I don't know why they are giving it to me first, why don't they give it to you young people who have to go out to work."
I tried to explain to her that the risk was higher where she was without scaring her (we had so very many seniors die here in Ontario in long term care it was heartbreaking). Finally I just told her she has to take it and if she refused it's not like they would give it to us anyway.
Yup. I’m convinced the people deciding the vaccine orders have had some very difficult discussions and weighed multiple viewpoints to find an ethical and effective balance. Just glad it’s not my job. Lately I’ve been entertaining myself by reading the open-letter section of a major newspaper, it’s mostly thinkpieces of why group X, Y or Z should be prioritized in getting vaccinated. Most of them have some variation of ”why is nobody thinking of XYZ” in them - I’m pretty sure that has been thought of, but something else was simply more critical.
The one that scared me was when cases were spiking and they were talking about prioritizing ICU beds - imagine being the person who had to come up with that flow chart.6 -
Jumping in against my better judgement, but can't help myself when throwing around numbers without context.
According to the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db395.htm,
The 2019 US death rate (pre-pandemic) from all causes was 715 people per 100,000.
I didn't source Ann's numbers on people vaccinated, but on this first blush the death rate among those vaccinated appears far, far lower than what happens every day from all causes in the US. If you were into sweeping conclusions based on incomplete data, you would be tempted to say the vaccine prevents non-covid deaths, too.11 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »I have just as much right to voice my findings on this subject as anyone here.
Look up the ingredients in vaccines. Mmm.. An experimental concoction loaded with neurotoxins, heavy metals, poison, aborted fetal lung tissue to name a few. So healthy. Run for it if you want Its your life. Want you to make informed decisions.
Remember VAERS is only capturing passive voluntary reporting, a small fraction of whats really happening.
Thousands of frontline nurses medical professionals and doctors are trying to warn us and getting censored and threatened with job loss and more for it. Can anyone tell me any other time in history when such heavy censorship was used by the "good guys? I'll wait.
Nothing I have posted is untrue. We are getting lied to on a grand scale by people who dont give one crap about your outcome, only what they can make you do to qualify to buy their toxic products.
il
Everything you posted is utter BS. I know tons of people in healthcare...nobody is being "censored" Every single person I know who's received the vaccine has been perfectly fine30 -
People have a right to not get vaccinated. However, if you're planning on traveling overseas, don't be surprised if some countries decline your offer to spend money in their country. Roughly one quarter of the world's population live in countries where virus cases are 'dribbling' rather than uncontrolled, myself included. We've gotten used to low death rates and not feeling scared or anxious (I've worn a mask once - just to see what it's like). You can take your virus elsewhere.13
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We are getting answers now on the question of whether the Pfizer vaccines prevent transmission (as opposed to just protecting the vaccinated person). This is early data, but looks good.NEW YORK/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc and BioNTech SE said on Thursday that real-world data from Israel suggests their COVID-19 vaccine is 94% effective in preventing asymptomatic infections, suggesting it could significantly reduce virus transmission.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-pfizer-israel-int-idUSKBN2B31IW?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook13 -
Jumping in against my better judgement, but can't help myself when throwing around numbers without context.
According to the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db395.htm,
The 2019 US death rate (pre-pandemic) from all causes was 715 people per 100,000.
I didn't source Ann's numbers on people vaccinated, but on this first blush the death rate among those vaccinated appears far, far lower than what happens every day from all causes in the US. If you were into sweeping conclusions based on incomplete data, you would be tempted to say the vaccine prevents non-covid deaths, too.
Yes I liken it to flu vaccine - here in Australia ( and would be amazed if different anywhere else ) more people who get flu vaccine die in the following 12 months, all cause mortality, than people who do not get flu vaccine.
And even more damning - people who get government funded vaccine die far more than private market vaccine.
I conclude that flu vaccine is poison- and that the government is in league with big pharma to double the dose
Actually, no I don't- I understand that people who are older and have chronic medical conditions are the biggest uptake of funded vaccine and that this demographic are more likely to die from all causes than young healthy people.
But is fun drawing apples to oranges fake conclusions
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Having grown up with those who suffered the ravages of diseases such as measles, mumps and polio- and AIDS- I am an advocate of science. Vaccines have helped us control dangerous and deadly diseases since smallpox in the 1500s. Nature changes, we adapt. Science, when believed, helps us catch up with those changes. Giving a vaccine to those most frail and at risk is kindness and eases their suffering. When the conversation is about waiting months-not years- it seems irrelevant. We will all have the chance to get this soon, we will all be safer for now as science sorts out what this virus will become in our world over time.20
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hobbitses333 wrote: »I have just as much right to voice my findings on this subject as anyone here.
"Findings" 🙄21 -
@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.hobbitses333 wrote: »
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Aliens built the pyramids! Google it!!14
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