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COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
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As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.
Funny my mom is 87 and lives in a congregate seniors setting so she was prioritized for the vaccine. She kept telling me "I don't know why they are giving it to me first, why don't they give it to you young people who have to go out to work."
I tried to explain to her that the risk was higher where she was without scaring her (we had so very many seniors die here in Ontario in long term care it was heartbreaking). Finally I just told her she has to take it and if she refused it's not like they would give it to us anyway.
Yup. I’m convinced the people deciding the vaccine orders have had some very difficult discussions and weighed multiple viewpoints to find an ethical and effective balance. Just glad it’s not my job. Lately I’ve been entertaining myself by reading the open-letter section of a major newspaper, it’s mostly thinkpieces of why group X, Y or Z should be prioritized in getting vaccinated. Most of them have some variation of ”why is nobody thinking of XYZ” in them - I’m pretty sure that has been thought of, but something else was simply more critical.5 -
As of the published first-month report, of the post-vaccine events reported to VAERS in the US, there were 113 deaths, after 13,794,904 doses being administered. Reporting to VAERS doesn't inherently imply causality, just post-vaccine occurrence. Those that had been assessed did not find the vaccine to be the cause of death, though some analyses were still pending at the time of that publication. With early numbers like that, I'm not even remotely concerned about whether my life insurance will pay out if I die from the vaccine. Others can make their own decisions about whether to phone their agent or not, but I'm not going to bother.
Regarding post-vaccine deaths: it's worth remembering that the majority of people who've been getting vaccines so far are elderly or have other risk factors, so they are more likely to die anyway (harsh, but true). Here in Finland someone panic started spreading about elderly people dying soon after taking the vaccine. Yeah, it sucks, but it was quickly pointed out that the amount of deaths in that age group in that time period was in line with the statistical amount of deaths in that age group in general, they just happened to die of unrelated causes soon after taking the vaccine.
The vaccine prevents covid-19, not deaths from other causes.
I did read that some people who are very, very ill and frail could be "pushed over the edge" to death by the vaccine. So in those cases for sure it would make sense to balance the benefits and risks. I believe that these would be people that are already near death so one would expect that there would be a number of factors that could unfortunately hasten that.
Agreed. The cynical side in me would want to balance the benefit of giving these very ill and frail people the vaccine vs. giving it to someone younger and healthier who could likely have more healthy living years "saved" by the vaccine. I'm really happy it's not my job to make these ethical considerations and decisions.
Funny my mom is 87 and lives in a congregate seniors setting so she was prioritized for the vaccine. She kept telling me "I don't know why they are giving it to me first, why don't they give it to you young people who have to go out to work."
I tried to explain to her that the risk was higher where she was without scaring her (we had so very many seniors die here in Ontario in long term care it was heartbreaking). Finally I just told her she has to take it and if she refused it's not like they would give it to us anyway.
Yup. I’m convinced the people deciding the vaccine orders have had some very difficult discussions and weighed multiple viewpoints to find an ethical and effective balance. Just glad it’s not my job. Lately I’ve been entertaining myself by reading the open-letter section of a major newspaper, it’s mostly thinkpieces of why group X, Y or Z should be prioritized in getting vaccinated. Most of them have some variation of ”why is nobody thinking of XYZ” in them - I’m pretty sure that has been thought of, but something else was simply more critical.
The one that scared me was when cases were spiking and they were talking about prioritizing ICU beds - imagine being the person who had to come up with that flow chart.6 -
Jumping in against my better judgement, but can't help myself when throwing around numbers without context.
According to the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db395.htm,
The 2019 US death rate (pre-pandemic) from all causes was 715 people per 100,000.
I didn't source Ann's numbers on people vaccinated, but on this first blush the death rate among those vaccinated appears far, far lower than what happens every day from all causes in the US. If you were into sweeping conclusions based on incomplete data, you would be tempted to say the vaccine prevents non-covid deaths, too.11 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »I have just as much right to voice my findings on this subject as anyone here.
Look up the ingredients in vaccines. Mmm.. An experimental concoction loaded with neurotoxins, heavy metals, poison, aborted fetal lung tissue to name a few. So healthy. Run for it if you want Its your life. Want you to make informed decisions.
Remember VAERS is only capturing passive voluntary reporting, a small fraction of whats really happening.
Thousands of frontline nurses medical professionals and doctors are trying to warn us and getting censored and threatened with job loss and more for it. Can anyone tell me any other time in history when such heavy censorship was used by the "good guys? I'll wait.
Nothing I have posted is untrue. We are getting lied to on a grand scale by people who dont give one crap about your outcome, only what they can make you do to qualify to buy their toxic products.
il
Everything you posted is utter BS. I know tons of people in healthcare...nobody is being "censored" Every single person I know who's received the vaccine has been perfectly fine30 -
People have a right to not get vaccinated. However, if you're planning on traveling overseas, don't be surprised if some countries decline your offer to spend money in their country. Roughly one quarter of the world's population live in countries where virus cases are 'dribbling' rather than uncontrolled, myself included. We've gotten used to low death rates and not feeling scared or anxious (I've worn a mask once - just to see what it's like). You can take your virus elsewhere.13
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We are getting answers now on the question of whether the Pfizer vaccines prevent transmission (as opposed to just protecting the vaccinated person). This is early data, but looks good.NEW YORK/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc and BioNTech SE said on Thursday that real-world data from Israel suggests their COVID-19 vaccine is 94% effective in preventing asymptomatic infections, suggesting it could significantly reduce virus transmission.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-pfizer-israel-int-idUSKBN2B31IW?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook13 -
Jumping in against my better judgement, but can't help myself when throwing around numbers without context.
According to the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db395.htm,
The 2019 US death rate (pre-pandemic) from all causes was 715 people per 100,000.
I didn't source Ann's numbers on people vaccinated, but on this first blush the death rate among those vaccinated appears far, far lower than what happens every day from all causes in the US. If you were into sweeping conclusions based on incomplete data, you would be tempted to say the vaccine prevents non-covid deaths, too.
Yes I liken it to flu vaccine - here in Australia ( and would be amazed if different anywhere else ) more people who get flu vaccine die in the following 12 months, all cause mortality, than people who do not get flu vaccine.
And even more damning - people who get government funded vaccine die far more than private market vaccine.
I conclude that flu vaccine is poison- and that the government is in league with big pharma to double the dose
Actually, no I don't- I understand that people who are older and have chronic medical conditions are the biggest uptake of funded vaccine and that this demographic are more likely to die from all causes than young healthy people.
But is fun drawing apples to oranges fake conclusions
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Having grown up with those who suffered the ravages of diseases such as measles, mumps and polio- and AIDS- I am an advocate of science. Vaccines have helped us control dangerous and deadly diseases since smallpox in the 1500s. Nature changes, we adapt. Science, when believed, helps us catch up with those changes. Giving a vaccine to those most frail and at risk is kindness and eases their suffering. When the conversation is about waiting months-not years- it seems irrelevant. We will all have the chance to get this soon, we will all be safer for now as science sorts out what this virus will become in our world over time.20
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hobbitses333 wrote: »I have just as much right to voice my findings on this subject as anyone here.
"Findings" 🙄21 -
@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.hobbitses333 wrote: »
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Aliens built the pyramids! Google it!!14 -
I don't know whether people sincerely believe this stuff, in which case our education system is failing is profoundly as a society, or if people are trolling for fun and profit. I kind of hope it's #2 because we really need most people to have a basic understanding of reality.21
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NorthCascades wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.hobbitses333 wrote: »
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Aliens built the pyramids! Google it!!
The Earth is also flat, and we've never been to space as we are unable to leave Earth's atmosphere. Yup...Google it...10 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.hobbitses333 wrote: »
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Aliens built the pyramids! Google it!!
The Earth is also flat, and we've never been to space as we are unable to leave Earth's atmosphere. Yup...Google it...
I've gone down that rabbit hole before. Many hours of my life I'll never get back.4 -
There is lots of data now and the data show that the vaccines prevent severe disease and hospitalization at a rate of 95%. I have been studying all of the vaccine trials and data since they came out and they all look promising.
The vaccine is an mRNA one and can’t make you sick. All it can do just like any other vaccine is stimulate an immune response. This is physiology. There is really no harm in taking it. Even people with serious allergic reactions to other things can premeditate prior.
I work in the ER, already had Covid, and am high risk for catching it again so I got vaccinated in January and February. I’m pregnant also but felt this was the best decision and my OB agreed. All of the physicians and PAs I work with also got vaccinated and about half of the nurses did too.
I really don’t understand the apprehension behind the vaccine. The whole argument that it was rushed makes no sense. Of course it came out faster, because the whole world was working on developing it. That’s what happens when scientists put forth a world wide effort on something.
As a health care worker, I am a firm believer in vaccines. There haven’t been any vaccines in the history of vaccines that have been proven to do any real harm to people. Side effects are exceedingly rare and when they do occur could just as easily occur from catching the actual virus the disease is designed to prevent. Vaccines have saved lives over the years and will continue to do so.
I have also seen many flu related deaths over the years which could be prevented if more people get vaccinated. Vaccination is not only about protecting yourself but others.32 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I don't know whether people sincerely believe this stuff, in which case our education system is failing is profoundly as a society, or if people are trolling for fun and profit. I kind of hope it's #2 because we really need most people to have a basic understanding of reality.
I think things like this are started by people trolling for fun and profit....but then other people genuinely believe the nonsense and accept it as fact. Because it showed up on their Facebook feed, so it must be true.11 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
The constantly quoted 99% recovery rate as an argument against lockdowns, masks and vaccines drive me nuts. As if the end point of survival is the only metric to be used. Do people see that the hospitalization rate is much, much higher than that, and that our health care systems are overwhelmed? Did they not see what happened in Europe and New York City in the first wave? People who end up in the hospital with severe Covid sometimes have to stay in ICU for weeks. People are dying from cancer and other illnesses because they can't get treatment when the hospitals are full. All these "I'll take my chances with a 1% death rate" people literally drive me insane.33 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
The constantly quoted 99% recovery rate as an argument against lockdowns, masks and vaccines drive me nuts. As if the end point of survival is the only metric to be used. Do people see that the hospitalization rate is much, much higher than that, and that our health care systems are overwhelmed? Did they not see what happened in Europe and New York City in the first wave? People who end up in the hospital with severe Covid sometimes have to stay in ICU for weeks. People are dying from cancer and other illnesses because they can't get treatment when the hospitals are full. All these "I'll take my chances with a 1% death rate" people literally drive me insane.
All of that aside (and don't worry, I completely agree with you), people also fail to see that 1% of 328.2 million people is over 3 million dead. That would be devastating to our country and our economy. We don't want it to run rampant.
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pfeiferlindsey wrote: »hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal. Over 99% recovery rate world wide. If you die after getting the vaccine your life insurance is null too because its experimental. Give your insurer a call first.
The constantly quoted 99% recovery rate as an argument against lockdowns, masks and vaccines drive me nuts. As if the end point of survival is the only metric to be used. Do people see that the hospitalization rate is much, much higher than that, and that our health care systems are overwhelmed? Did they not see what happened in Europe and New York City in the first wave? People who end up in the hospital with severe Covid sometimes have to stay in ICU for weeks. People are dying from cancer and other illnesses because they can't get treatment when the hospitals are full. All these "I'll take my chances with a 1% death rate" people literally drive me insane.
All of that aside (and don't worry, I completely agree with you), people also fail to see that 1% of 328.2 million people is over 3 million dead. That would be devastating to our country and our economy. We don't want it to run rampant.
Yep! I have a coworker who just lost her father to Covid the other day. Most young and healthy people will be fine but what about older or sicker people? The death rate is much higher for people over 60, 70, and 80. I’m sure most people have a parent or grandparent they care about.
Not only that, when our hospitals were impacted a few months ago a lot of other people had their other care delayed like elective surgeries and things.
People need to stop being so selfish and think about people besides themselves.12 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »Poison will not heal.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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hobbitses333 wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.hobbitses333 wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.hobbitses333 wrote: »@hobbitses333 please provide link to the official ingredient list of any of the covid-19 vaccines then, and we'll discuss.
Vaccines are hardly experimental concoctions (at least not any more than other medicines).
List of metals/chemical elements in the multivitamin I take currently (might not meet chemical classification of heavy metal, I'm no chemist): magnesium, iron, iodine, copper, manganese, chromium, selenium and zinc. All healthy and necessary. Can't really compare these to the ingredient list of a vaccine without seeing it, though. These are all recommended by my public healthcare provider who doesn't get a dime from the vitamins I buy, and who very much has an interest in keeping me and my unborn child healthy so my child will one day become a tax-paying citizen who can do their part to keep the society and economy running.
I am not here to do the research for you just to point out that you may need to do some. The ingredient list for vaccine is available at your fingertips if you want it, try the CDC website though it is rife with proapganda, and when looking up the definitions of the ingredients I suggest you use duck duck go..I can assure you it is much different than your multivitamin.
Vitamins are also not vaccines with ingredients such as Potassium chloride, Sodium chloride, Monobasic potassium phosphate, Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate etc, aluminum Though you may want to look into what they are using as fillers in those vitamins while you are doing research as a precaution. Congrats and good luck with your baby. Note if you spoon-fed your child the ingredients in the vaccines you may be planning to give them you would be jailed, but if a vaccine injures you or your child the makers are not liable. Fair game.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
10
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