Coronavirus prep
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@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
All I meant to point out is that the US, has had more cases and deaths from covid, in a much bigger, area wise, country, with a much smaller total population. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other. IMHO, it’s because of poor, ineffective leadership in the US in 2020. With better leadership decisions, many US deaths may have been avoided.15 -
missysippy930 wrote: »@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
All I meant to point out is that the US, has had more cases and deaths from covid, in a much bigger, area wise, country, with a much smaller total population. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other. IMHO, it’s because of poor, ineffective leadership in the US in 2020. With better leadership decisions, many US deaths may have been avoided.
When comparing countries, best to look at PPM comparisons
The US has been in the middle, better than some yet worse than others.
Don't turn everything into a political football
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missysippy930 wrote: »@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
All I meant to point out is that the US, has had more cases and deaths from covid, in a much bigger, area wise, country, with a much smaller total population. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other. IMHO, it’s because of poor, ineffective leadership in the US in 2020. With better leadership decisions, many US deaths may have been avoided.
When comparing countries, best to look at PPM comparisons
The US has been in the middle, better than some yet worse than others.
Don't turn everything into a political football
I didn’t make it political. That was someone who didn’t, or wouldn’t, listen to experts, or advisors, who didn’t agree with him.
Fact is, comparing US vs India, 572,000 vs 192,000 deaths. Population of India is over one billion more than the population of the US. And, a lot of experts say a lot of the US deaths could have been prevented. The policies in many countries definitely had a better handle on this than the US.8 -
India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-535103076 -
India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.5 -
My sister watches all the local news. I don't. She said Covid cases have increased 20% in our area.
WTH? Mostly in younger people and children.
How big is this area you’re talking about? If it’s a relatively small area that didn’t surge before the increase, a single mass exposure at a school could be enough to make cases jump by 20%, especially if it’s followed by infections that spread to families.missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
All I meant to point out is that the US, has had more cases and deaths from covid, in a much bigger, area wise, country, with a much smaller total population. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other. IMHO, it’s because of poor, ineffective leadership in the US in 2020. With better leadership decisions, many US deaths may have been avoided.
When comparing countries, best to look at PPM comparisons
The US has been in the middle, better than some yet worse than others.
Don't turn everything into a political football
I didn’t make it political. That was someone who didn’t, or wouldn’t, listen to experts, or advisors, who didn’t agree with him.
Fact is, comparing US vs India, 572,000 vs 192,000 deaths. Population of India is over one billion more than the population of the US. And, a lot of experts say a lot of the US deaths could have been prevented. The policies in many countries definitely had a better handle on this than the US.
To be fair, *most* countries would have had less deaths, less hospital stays and less economic side effects with better policies, better resources, better-in-crisis societal structures, better healthcare systems and more obedient populations/cultures. Some leaders are wiser than others, some legislations and executive branches have better abilities to cooperate across party lines, some countries have more resources or the ability to get more quickly, and in some cultures people are used to doing what the government tells them to do, either because they have a historic understanding of pulling together in a crisis, government only asking specific things when it’s really needed, or because there’s a dictatorship that forces people to do so.
To compare US and Finland specifically (since I’ve lived in both): president is ceremonial, political power is shared between parliament and government, which is lead by prime minister (this is simplifying things to make the point). There are 8 different parties in parliament, 5 of which currently form the government. Everyone is used to working together to get anything done, because even in normal conditions nobody can get their way without other parties. This means people are used to government decisions that are just that, without making it a political circus of the other party and their supporters being stupid, life-ruining or whatever. The society is largely what some might call ”nanny state”, but in pandemic conditions it allows basic living and social security when workplaces close and jobs are lost, and nobody is starving or at risk of becoming homeless if they follow the rules and stay home instead of risking their lives to earn money. Also less jobs are lost because companies are supported by the state. People here have followed pandemic policies because we’re largely a calm, steady people, following pandemic rules doesn’t lead to personal demise, and we can generally trust the government to make sensible decisions that serve the purpose they’re meant to. Getting healthcare doesn’t cause bankruptcy, even without insurance.
With all this said, we didn’t survive the pandemic without all kinds of massive issues: economic implications are still huge, businesses especially in service industries are suffering, there’s a huge backlog of non-urgent medical care and procedures waiting because resources were reallocated to covid care, and so on. Could we have done better if we had wiser leadership and better resources? Absolutely. Did we still do better than many countries? Absolutely. There’s still a big difference in these curves.
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I posted about the situation in India because I felt terrible. Just like NY and Italy last spring. And many countries/states between then and now. Things were awful in Southern California (where I live) December-February. But I never doubted we'd see our way out of it, as we could find the resources even when we were stretched so very thin. I worry for India as I don't see them having the resources to get things under control. And that includes vaccine. And I see a variant-driven surge as potentially moving beyond those borders. So, part of it is selfish, I guess. And empathetic. We could surge again, too. Several states are just coming down from a spring surge. And when it comes to making choices to keep this at bay and stem the spread, like wearing a mask, getting tested if symptomatic, hand-washing, physical distancing, getting vaccinated (the CDC estimates about 8% of the vaccinated population stopped after one shot), we seem to be our own worst enemy. And that's in the world at large. 11
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missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."14 -
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It’s just heartbreaking to me. From the WaPo: “Patients are on Their Own as India Reels.”
https://apple.news/AQ_jqpFW7RxyzJawNKZBfyA
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missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
All I meant to point out is that the US, has had more cases and deaths from covid, in a much bigger, area wise, country, with a much smaller total population. I’m not saying one is better or worse than the other. IMHO, it’s because of poor, ineffective leadership in the US in 2020. With better leadership decisions, many US deaths may have been avoided.
When comparing countries, best to look at PPM comparisons
The US has been in the middle, better than some yet worse than others.
Don't turn everything into a political football
I didn’t make it political. That was someone who didn’t, or wouldn’t, listen to experts, or advisors, who didn’t agree with him.
Fact is, comparing US vs India, 572,000 vs 192,000 deaths. Population of India is over one billion more than the population of the US. And, a lot of experts say a lot of the US deaths could have been prevented. The policies in many countries definitely had a better handle on this than the US.
Yes, you are the one on this thread making it 'POLITICAL'
I highly recommend taking a stat class, it will help you analyze data. Instead of 'cherry picking' a comparison country, you should do like I did - I compared the whole EU with the US data, and it was normalized by population.
If you want to discuss what policy decisions led to deaths, start a thread to drill down into the topic. It's far more complex than your insinuations.8 -
@missysippy930
I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.
To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.
When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.
A couple of years ago, I saw a documentary that covered funerary practices in various parts of the world. (Pre-COVID.) Outdoor, open-air cremations are standard practice in India. The cremation sites I saw in that link look similar to the ones I saw in the documentary. You could see those from the air as well. In the highly populated areas especially, the cremation sites are large and they are burning bodies 24/7. There is a caste of people who basically are born into the trade, and it's a dirty, unhealthy job. And the types of fuels used depend on how much the family can pay - some burn better than others, and do a quicker, cleaner job, etc. Poor people just get burned in a pile together. Seeing a loved one cremated on a pyre of wood outdoors would not be especially traumatic in India. That's a normal cultural practice. Don't let it upset you.
What IS traumatic is that there are so many dying so quickly, there are more young people dying than normal (probably the more aggressive variants) and people are suffering miserably because there is no oxygen to keep them comfortable and support the lungs.
ETA: Found this interesting little tidbit regarding the funerals. DO NOT READ if you are sensitive. I personally find this kind of thing fascinating.
After cremation, ashes and bones are scattered in the sacred Ganges River. (George Harrison and Jerry Garcia's remains went in there, too.) They were having trouble with disease spreading back in the day when poor people (who couldn't afford cremation) just had their bodies tossed right in the river. So..."Today only bones and ashes are supposed to be scattered in the river. Even so the cremation process, especially among those who can not afford the large amount of wood needed to incinerate the entire body, leaves behind a lot of half burned body parts. To get rid of the body parts special snapping turtles are bred and released in the river that are taught to consume dead human flesh but not bother swimmers and bathers. These turtles consume about a pound of flesh a day and can reach a size of 70 pounds."
Was going to say the same... open-air cremations are not a Covid thing because of large numbers of deaths. It's just what some Indians do.
BTW, remember the mass graves in NYC for unclaimed bodies? We saw the aerial photos of that... and that isn't common in the U.S., but they couldn't hold bodies for long and had to make room. Many cities and states got refrigerated truck trailers after that to be ready for a higher body inventory, but this was NYC during the early spike that caught them unprepared.
ETA: It is common for the city/state to bury unclaimed bodies, but not in such numbers and usually the bodies are held longer.3 -
So is it just me or do the new CDC guidelines announced yesterday seem a little like nothing new? I guess they are just making it official that vaccinated people can be safer together. But honestly it's impossible to know if someone has been vaccinated or not anyway.
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SummerSkier wrote: »So is it just me or do the new CDC guidelines announced yesterday seem a little like nothing new? I guess they are just making it official that vaccinated people can be safer together. But honestly it's impossible to know if someone has been vaccinated or not anyway.
That is the rub, isn't it? I carry my vaccination card everywhere I go, but there's no legal mechanism for anyone to ask to see it--it's all based on the honor system. I can see why they dont want to start asking people for their "papers" except when boarding a plane, perhaps, but this is why I have to keep monitoring my kids until they can get vaccinated.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »So is it just me or do the new CDC guidelines announced yesterday seem a little like nothing new? I guess they are just making it official that vaccinated people can be safer together. But honestly it's impossible to know if someone has been vaccinated or not anyway.
That was my take, really nothing new.
The only difference is before it was recommended (and state law here, although not enforced) to mask outside if you could not maintain a 6 ft distance (which at least many here in Chicago were taking very literally, perhaps that wasn't the case elsewhere in the state). Now, the recommendations at least clarify that if vaccinated, you can be unmasked outside unless in a crowd. But yeah, hardly a huge difference. I doubt it will make people on NextDoor stop complaining about every last person outside without a mask (and plenty of other people were already drawing the conclusion that it was okay pre CDC).5 -
missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."
I was telling my mom just last week that I was hoping that COVID would help end the "work through illness" culture that exists in some professions. It was not at all uncommon in my workplace for people to come to work with really bad coughs . . . basically as long as you weren't vomiting or had a high fever, you'd come into work. This wasn't due to economic insecurity (we had the ability to work from home, we had sick days). It was just "how things were."
But I think the mindset will be hard to change, even with the year we've just had.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."
I was telling my mom just last week that I was hoping that COVID would help end the "work through illness" culture that exists in some professions. It was not at all uncommon in my workplace for people to come to work with really bad coughs . . . basically as long as you weren't vomiting or had a high fever, you'd come into work. This wasn't due to economic insecurity (we had the ability to work from home, we had sick days). It was just "how things were."
But I think the mindset will be hard to change, even with the year we've just had.
But I have experienced "post viral cough" that can last up to 6 weeks. Even a regular cold or flu cough last about 10 days. I can't imagine anyone taking off 10 days for a cold. I don't get sick as much now, but when my kids were small it could happen 3 times a year. Like my work would not allow anyone to take off that much sick time for minor illnesses, I can't imagine most offices would. We get like 3 paid sick days.
Although I guess those who can work from home could do that, we didn't have that option before, we do now.6 -
I hope so! When I was manager of a portrait studio, I had to go in with the flu just in case people wanted to pick up their pictures. My district manager told me to cancel appointments for the day and lay down in the back studio!:/janejellyroll wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."
I was telling my mom just last week that I was hoping that COVID would help end the "work through illness" culture that exists in some professions. It was not at all uncommon in my workplace for people to come to work with really bad coughs . . . basically as long as you weren't vomiting or had a high fever, you'd come into work. This wasn't due to economic insecurity (we had the ability to work from home, we had sick days). It was just "how things were."
But I think the mindset will be hard to change, even with the year we've just had.
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janejellyroll wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."
I was telling my mom just last week that I was hoping that COVID would help end the "work through illness" culture that exists in some professions. It was not at all uncommon in my workplace for people to come to work with really bad coughs . . . basically as long as you weren't vomiting or had a high fever, you'd come into work. This wasn't due to economic insecurity (we had the ability to work from home, we had sick days). It was just "how things were."
But I think the mindset will be hard to change, even with the year we've just had.
But I have experienced "post viral cough" that can last up to 6 weeks. Even a regular cold or flu cough last about 10 days. I can't imagine anyone taking off 10 days for a cold. I don't get sick as much now, but when my kids were small it could happen 3 times a year. Like my work would not allow anyone to take off that much sick time for minor illnesses, I can't imagine most offices would. We get like 3 paid sick days.
Although I guess those who can work from home could do that, we didn't have that option before, we do now.
I understand that taking ten days off is out of scope for the majority of people, but I'm talking about a culture where people take no time off and assume whatever they have won't be communicated to others (or that it doesn't matter if it is). The point is that people often assume that what they have is no big deal and stories like the one above show that it sometimes IS a big deal.
Again, this is in the context of people being able to work from home, which I know is an option that wasn't freely available in the past and still isn't available for many workers now. I'm not at all judging people who need to go to work in order to keep their job or don't have sufficient sick days available.3 -
I'm actually somewhat more worried about any slight sniffle or cough (which could be for lots of reasons or just happen out of nowhere) being stigmatized if one is out in public. I do think most jobs that can be done from home will be a lot more flexible/open to people just working from home for a few days when contagious or for lots of other reasons.5
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »India's numbers are probably undercounted, though -- I found plenty of articles even from 2020 saying that. And it's clear that many places that were for whatever reason hit less hard early on got hit harder later, and the current situation in India is terrible.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/04/22/989768074/how-india-went-from-a-ray-of-hope-to-a-world-record-for-most-covid-cases-in-a-da
Older pieces include: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54176375 and https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53510307
I agree it’s devastating and extremely sad. People are dying because of oxygen shortages.
Just yesterday, my daughter said her boss thinks she has covid. My daughter told her to get tested. She said no, it’s probably just a cold🤷🏻♀️How many people think this way? Her boss won’t get the vaccine either.
A couple of months ago, my husband's boss had "really bad allergies or something" for over a week, kept getting worse and worse. She didn't want to get tested because she didn't want to be forced to quarantine. She ended up in the hospital with COVID (she's OK now but she was sick enough to stay in the hospital for a week.) Meanwhile, she spread it around work, the health department found out and came in and sent a bunch of people home to quarantine (including my husband who ended up negative.) Three other people at work ended up coming down with COVID shortly after. There are a handful of people at his work who say, "Yeah, we've all already been exposed. We don't need the vaccine now." WTH, people. So yeah, plenty of people "think this way."
I was telling my mom just last week that I was hoping that COVID would help end the "work through illness" culture that exists in some professions. It was not at all uncommon in my workplace for people to come to work with really bad coughs . . . basically as long as you weren't vomiting or had a high fever, you'd come into work. This wasn't due to economic insecurity (we had the ability to work from home, we had sick days). It was just "how things were."
But I think the mindset will be hard to change, even with the year we've just had.
But I have experienced "post viral cough" that can last up to 6 weeks. Even a regular cold or flu cough last about 10 days. I can't imagine anyone taking off 10 days for a cold. I don't get sick as much now, but when my kids were small it could happen 3 times a year. Like my work would not allow anyone to take off that much sick time for minor illnesses, I can't imagine most offices would. We get like 3 paid sick days.
Although I guess those who can work from home could do that, we didn't have that option before, we do now.
I understand that taking ten days off is out of scope for the majority of people, but I'm talking about a culture where people take no time off and assume whatever they have won't be communicated to others (or that it doesn't matter if it is). The point is that people often assume that what they have is no big deal and stories like the one above show that it sometimes IS a big deal.
Again, this is in the context of people being able to work from home, which I know is an option that wasn't freely available in the past and still isn't available for many workers now. I'm not at all judging people who need to go to work in order to keep their job or don't have sufficient sick days available.
I'm kind of hoping that wearing a mask when you are sick or coughing becomes more normalized here.
I think these Covid changes might stick actually. We have been operating on the assumption that Covid will be eradicated, but it doesn't seem likely that is going to happen, so there might not be an "after COVID" scenario where we go back to "normal". Maybe it will be better contained, but I feel we are going to be putting out Covid fires for quite a while to come.5 -
I'm actually somewhat more worried about any slight sniffle or cough (which could be for lots of reasons or just happen out of nowhere) being stigmatized if one is out in public. I do think most jobs that can be done from home will be a lot more flexible/open to people just working from home for a few days when contagious or for lots of other reasons.
My husband's blood pressure medication causes him an ongoing dry cough, he is so used to it he doesn't notice much, but when we are out somewhere I am always on him to put his arm over his (already masked) mouth. I feel like everyone is looking at us.6 -
I'm actually somewhat more worried about any slight sniffle or cough (which could be for lots of reasons or just happen out of nowhere) being stigmatized if one is out in public. I do think most jobs that can be done from home will be a lot more flexible/open to people just working from home for a few days when contagious or for lots of other reasons.
Oh, I know about the stigma and I get why there is one. I don't want to be around sick people, either! Still, it's so awkward for people like me. I run on trails where there is tons of room to distance - wide trails, lots of lightly used ones where I'm usually alone.
I often have exercise-induced asthmatic spasms at the end of my runs (I'm fine during the activity, but if I don't allow enough cool down transition and stop too abruptly, the coughing begins, and if there's cold weather I'm gonna for sure cough at the end, and maybe a bit during the activity.)
The trails are easy to distance on, but the main parking area is busy, and when I get back to the parking area after my runs I try so hard not to cough, but sometimes it just breaks through. I know it's skeeving everybody out - I get lots of horrified stares, but it is what it is. I'm not going to not go for my runs.
I stay as far away from people as I can. I won't run at the gym anymore - imagine how freaked out people would be if I had an attack in there on the treadmill - so I gotta run somewhere. I feel awkward when I cough in public. I feel bad for the people who are truly terrified of or disgusted by me. I don't blame them.
My lungs love to run in warm weather. Hardly any spasms at all. The weather is warming up lately, so the coughing should calm down a bit and I don't have to scare people as much...
I imagine the allergy sufferers out there must be feeling self-conscious, too! 11 -
Thought this graphic was well done, from updated CDC guidlines.
13 -
I'm actually somewhat more worried about any slight sniffle or cough (which could be for lots of reasons or just happen out of nowhere) being stigmatized if one is out in public. I do think most jobs that can be done from home will be a lot more flexible/open to people just working from home for a few days when contagious or for lots of other reasons.
Oh, I know about the stigma and I get why there is one. I don't want to be around sick people, either! Still, it's so awkward for people like me. I run on trails where there is tons of room to distance - wide trails, lots of lightly used ones where I'm usually alone.
I often have exercise-induced asthmatic spasms at the end of my runs (I'm fine during the activity, but if I don't allow enough cool down transition and stop too abruptly, the coughing begins, and if there's cold weather I'm gonna for sure cough at the end, and maybe a bit during the activity.)
The trails are easy to distance on, but the main parking area is busy, and when I get back to the parking area after my runs I try so hard not to cough, but sometimes it just breaks through. I know it's skeeving everybody out - I get lots of horrified stares, but it is what it is. I'm not going to not go for my runs.
I stay as far away from people as I can. I won't run at the gym anymore - imagine how freaked out people would be if I had an attack in there on the treadmill - so I gotta run somewhere. I feel awkward when I cough in public. I feel bad for the people who are truly terrified of or disgusted by me. I don't blame them.
My lungs love to run in warm weather. Hardly any spasms at all. The weather is warming up lately, so the coughing should calm down a bit and I don't have to scare people as much... I imagine the allergy sufferers out there must be feeling self-conscious, too!
We have so many Frequent Flyer mile points to travel around the world and I'm worried we won't be allowed on a plane now. We have no Covid here but we do have bad sinus and allergy issues plus DH is a smoker so we are always coughing, sneezing etc.. but not sick. We also get our flu vax now days too and will get the Covid one if the darn government ever gives it to us.9 -
I'm actually somewhat more worried about any slight sniffle or cough (which could be for lots of reasons or just happen out of nowhere) being stigmatized if one is out in public. I do think most jobs that can be done from home will be a lot more flexible/open to people just working from home for a few days when contagious or for lots of other reasons.
Oh, I know about the stigma and I get why there is one. I don't want to be around sick people, either! Still, it's so awkward for people like me. I run on trails where there is tons of room to distance - wide trails, lots of lightly used ones where I'm usually alone.
I often have exercise-induced asthmatic spasms at the end of my runs (I'm fine during the activity, but if I don't allow enough cool down transition and stop too abruptly, the coughing begins, and if there's cold weather I'm gonna for sure cough at the end, and maybe a bit during the activity.)
The trails are easy to distance on, but the main parking area is busy, and when I get back to the parking area after my runs I try so hard not to cough, but sometimes it just breaks through. I know it's skeeving everybody out - I get lots of horrified stares, but it is what it is. I'm not going to not go for my runs.
I stay as far away from people as I can. I won't run at the gym anymore - imagine how freaked out people would be if I had an attack in there on the treadmill - so I gotta run somewhere. I feel awkward when I cough in public. I feel bad for the people who are truly terrified of or disgusted by me. I don't blame them.
My lungs love to run in warm weather. Hardly any spasms at all. The weather is warming up lately, so the coughing should calm down a bit and I don't have to scare people as much... I imagine the allergy sufferers out there must be feeling self-conscious, too!
We have so many Frequent Flyer mile points to travel around the world and I'm worried we won't be allowed on a plane now. We have no Covid here but we do have bad sinus and allergy issues plus DH is a smoker so we are always coughing, sneezing etc.. but not sick. We also get our flu vax now days too and will get the Covid one if the darn government ever gives it to us.
Tell your husband he has the perfect excuse to quit smoking now. The stigma of coughing in public. (Obviously, there are even better reasons not to smoke - but maybe this will work on him?)4 -
I will try that for sure jenilla. Still the sinus/allergy thing we have is an issue. I have always been working out where we are going next overseas mostly since we were teenagers so I really hope it's not an issue. Maybe a doctor certificate will get us on planes but still worried if others don't know it's just allergies etc.. By the way he did just get some medication to help stop smoking so that is a great first step.1
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Second shot DONE (April 30) and this time we didn't get any stinkin' lollipops.
grumble grumble grumble
Arm was more sore after this one but a lot better now.12 -
To those here posting of coughing issues, do know that reflux can cause coughing as well. Hubby has been dealing with that for a while and with dietary corrections, his reflux cough is rare. Interestingly, 2nd Pfizer vaccine kicked up his reflux horribly. Water even was coming back up in him. Did a two week course of Prilosec and is back to his pre-vaccine baseline. FYI docs have blamed his cough on asthma for years and were wrong.6
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »So is it just me or do the new CDC guidelines announced yesterday seem a little like nothing new? I guess they are just making it official that vaccinated people can be safer together. But honestly it's impossible to know if someone has been vaccinated or not anyway.
That was my take, really nothing new.
The only difference is before it was recommended (and state law here, although not enforced) to mask outside if you could not maintain a 6 ft distance (which at least many here in Chicago were taking very literally, perhaps that wasn't the case elsewhere in the state). Now, the recommendations at least clarify that if vaccinated, you can be unmasked outside unless in a crowd. But yeah, hardly a huge difference. I doubt it will make people on NextDoor stop complaining about every last person outside without a mask (and plenty of other people were already drawing the conclusion that it was okay pre CDC).
Here, too (California), that you must wear a mask outdoors if you cannot maintain at least six feet of physical distancing, so this is different for us. And, as others have pointed out, there's no way to know who hasn't been vaccinated.
It was campus policy (University of California) long before the state announced it as well, and we have not changed direction. Things are more complicated for us as CDPH often has more stringent guidelines than the CDC, so we're constantly comparing the two. That's not a bad thing, it just makes it more difficult when the CDC announces "relaxed guidelines" and CDPH hasn't changed anything. People get easily confused, including those of us enforcing campus policy.
Best example: beds in a room. CDC guidance says heads of the beds must be at least eight feet apart. CDPH says six feet apart at the closest point of the beds. After rearranging furniture for weeks (and making sure we don't violate Title XIX (fire code) by blocking windows with furniture), I can tell you the CDC guideline is MUCH easier to meet. And we have to buy lofting kits to meet the CDPH requirements in order to increase occupancy (as of now and we ahve to place the furniture order now in order to ensure delivery by fall).
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