Any atheists/pagans/wiccans out there? :)
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I suggest you google Westboro Baptist Church. They are anything but love.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?0 -
The burden of proof is on the believer not the nonbeliever...you can't say that because science can't prove their isn't a god that means their probably is one...Science doesn't waste it's time trying to prove god, that isn't what science is there for...Science spends it's time figuring out how things work...If it makes it obvious that a god isn't needed, then so be it...It also can't be argued that something(the universe) can't come from nothing because that would mean god came from something else...If you argue that god came from nothing, one can argue the universe did to...I understand you may be trying to call the universe god but nah...people don't think the universe is going to send you to a nicer place after we die...
Well, if you read my post I didn't say anything about God or the Universe sending you to a nicer place after we die, in fact I don't even believe in that. To me heaven or hell doesn't exist.
About science not wasting its time trying to prove God's existence, that you know of. I don't agree with you, but I respect your point of view. Now, if we see it from my point of view, and based on another comment I left before, the fact science studies everything it does (and has in the past) is what I mean with proving God existence, since to me everything and everyone is God
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Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?0
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Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?
I believe he was referring to you saying that you don't know what kind of Christians we have met, but you only know loving ones.
They are giving you a well known example of a group of Christians that are not known for being so loving.
It's a cheap shot because they are NOT the majority, but they are an example. They are pretty extreme, and are a pretty hateful group, and a very sad representation of Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church0 -
Folks seem a little confused about definitions of things.
Atheists aren't violently ANTI-god, we are just NON-theistic in our beliefs. For atheists, it doesn't matter whether there is a god or not, and we don't believe in praying, or worshipping, or conversations with imaginary friends, etc. etc. We just tend to believe that it's good to be good to our fellow man, not out of fear of bad things in the after-life or promises of awesome things in the after-life, but just because it's good to be good to other people.
Agnostics aren't sure yet WHICH religion, if any, to follow, but tend to believe in a higher power people often refer to as god.
Often refer to "as" God? His name is GOD. When we talk about God, we are talking about God.
If not, then Budda would be "God" too and he is not.. because when people believe in God.. they actually believe in the same being, just different prophets.
Not necessarily, his name has also been Thor, Zeus, etc...It all just depends on which mythology you subscribe to...Currently Christian and Islamic mythology are two of the more popular...In the stories of old god is a much different character, the Abrahimic religions decided to make him a monotheistic god even doing away with his wife Asherah in the earlier days of the religion...It's all just stuff made up by men in the stone, bronze, and iron age...As we grow as a species we learn more and become a bit more rational...it's just some old habits are hard to break...0 -
I suggest you google Westboro Baptist Church. They are anything but love.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?
This is a photo of Westboro's funeral protests: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/WBC_20051202_sacco-topeka5.j
Someone's loved one, son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, etc. just died, and they do that.0 -
Yes I used their example because they are well known. The Potter's House and The Door are 2 other group I remember screaming on the corner about a vengeful God and how we were going to burn in Hell. All I wanted to do was go to my Ah-Ha concert.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?
I believe he was referring to you saying that you don't know what kind of Christians we have met, but you only know loving ones.
They are giving you a well known example of a group of Christians that are not known for being so loving.
It's a cheap shot because they are NOT the majority, but they are an example. They are pretty extreme, and are a pretty hateful group, and a very sad representation of Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church0 -
I suggest you google Westboro Baptist Church. They are anything but love.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?
This is a photo of Westboro's funeral protests: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/WBC_20051202_sacco-topeka5.jpg
Someone's loved one, son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, etc. just died, and they do that.
They really are sick. I believe in a person's right to protest, but to protest at a funeral is just in bad taste. SEVERELY. Every group has a bad example, most Christians I know are embarrassed by these guys.0 -
Anyone, atheists/pagan/wiccan can respond, just curious, I've been reading through some posts, do any of you believe that inside you is a soul?
I do not. I believe that my existence is my self-awareness as an animal evolved on this Earth and nothing more. I am a product of my life experience and genetic makeup.What do you believe happens to your body after you die?
My body will rot away and decompose. The billions upon billions of atoms will be transferred into other organisms that break down my body components and get put right back into the biological system from whence we all came. My consiousness will cease to exist much like we do not exist before conception.What guides your daily interactions with people in a healthy way?
Empathy, compassion, and mutual respect. Yes, these are social contructs, but it is bred in us to be social creatures and to work in groups to better ourselves and our communities. Many people do not require faith in a God to be compassionate, kind, and respectful human beings.If you've ever felt depressed, what filled that void?
I have been depressed in the past. That was fixed by being proactive about providing for my own needs: physical, mental, and social. I never felt a void in my life, only that my circumstances had caused undue mental stress which manifested physically and socially.I say that I believe/know people are disheartened with religion because there are many a causes taken up in Jesus or the name of Christianity in which the Bible and the people's actions conflict. I don't want to make this a long post but I do want to say just as my two cents, I'm glad that I found and grew up with the knowledge that by the blood of Jesus I could be saved, and that no matter how I mess up he forgives me, and I know this. and through church going/praying/talking about him/reading the Bible I know him (want to know more) because it's about a relationship with him. There's a lot I want to say, but I'm quite certain I'd be here all night.
Transitioning from a person of faith to a person without faith in a diety was one of the most liberating and wonderful things I have ever experienced.0 -
Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?
The question really makes no sense. Your BELIEF that someone will burn forever in hell because they do not share your faith is a belief, not a provable fact.0 -
I suggest you google Westboro Baptist Church. They are anything but love.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
After reading the above response, "those" Christians are not any that I would associate with. Our church and bible teaches to love all even though we may not agree with their lifestyle choices. Westboro is exhibiting hatred for those people.
What I mean is the Christians I spend time with would never behave in that manner. But I have met several that I distance myself from because they take parts of the bible and twist the meaning instead of taking it's full context and living like we are taught.
I have friends and employees from every faith and race and sexual orientation imaginable and enjoy time with them as long as it's not bashing another persons choices.
Faith etc.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?0 -
Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely
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I suggest you google Westboro Baptist Church. They are anything but love.
Westboro...I am a saved Christian. I would never shove my beliefs or faith at someone else. I will share my beliefs with others if they want to understand why i believe what i do, but ultimately you have to chose what path you want to follow. Not sure what kind of Christians y'all have met from reading all the posts but the ones I associate with love all and although we may not agree with what your have chosen in your life doesn't mean we dislike you. (at least not in my church)
Cheap shot but not totally out of the realm of reality.
What do you mean by cheap shot? And westboro?
This is a photo of Westboro's funeral protests: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/WBC_20051202_sacco-topeka5.jpg
Someone's loved one, son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, etc. just died, and they do that.
They really are sick. I believe in a person's right to protest, but to protest at a funeral is just in bad taste. SEVERELY. Every group has a bad example, most Christians I know are embarrassed by these guys.
I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.0 -
A well "loved" post it seems... I'm not really of any religion at this point in my life, I turned my back on the Baptist faith as a child and spend years as an atheist. I've gradually come to accept and respect the presence of the Divine in not just my life but in everything around me, if this makes me a pagan or a wiccan, it really doesn't matter to me. What matters is to me is respecting the presence of the Divine in all that is around me, no matter what or who it may be present in. If labels need to be applied then people are free to go ahead and use them, it doesn't affect me or what I feel. If pressed, I usually say I have a leaning towards being a Wiccan, although it is more of an intellectual interest at this point.
We are all free to approach faith in our own way, it doesn't make any of us greater or lesser than another. I respect others beliefs as long as they don't choose to impose their beliefs on me.0 -
I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.
This.
The comparisons of WBC to all other Christians is just as bad as the comparison made by some of Ted Bundy to all atheists.0 -
Gosh nice save at the end. This is chit chat (see random).Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely
Thanks for telling me I have been doing it wrong this whole time.
I mean that nicely.0 -
Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely
I don't think it should offend you, it is just as someone not liking any specific group of people for previous experiences. Also, beware that as nicely as you say your comment is, the "totally offensive" part can make moderators to lock or delete the thread to avoid users being offended 0 -
Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely
I don't see a lot of people on here saying that they dislike Christians. Most of us are friends with Christians and respect them. We don't like people who treat us like we are below them for believing differently, just like you would not like to be treated that way. Try not to take it the wrong way.
Not to assume, but you probably like to talk about your beliefs with like minded people (say at church), and that is all we are doing here. Christianity seems like it is the majority, so it is a little difficult for some of us to find like-minded people in our daily lives. I know I don't know any atheists, so it is very nice to be able to see others who are similar to me, on a site like this, trying to achieve the same goals that I am.0 -
Atheist here.0
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Former catholic here. I would say agnostic because I can not prove there isn't a god. But if there is he's got some splanin' to do!
I find religion to be such a destructive force it's almost satanic (against the principals of god) in itself. I can't imagine any intelligent being would be happy with what humanity has done in its name.
Part of the main reason I quit religion. Was brought up in a christian home and as a christian though. As you say, it's sad the things people do to each other in the name of "God". I believe in God just without trying to fit Her into any religious box and acknowledging the idea that He is bigger than it all. And my law is one: What comes from love, be it.0 -
I admitted it was a cheap shot, but lesser versions are also out there.I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.
This.
The comparisons of WBC to all other Christians is just as bad as the comparison made by some of Ted Bundy to all atheists.0 -
One question, for atheists. Do you raise children, and how does this work out for you? One thing I am worried about is having a kid and facing some of the horrible things I have heard other atheist families have faced. People can be VERY cruel.
A lot of that has to do with where you live. No place is immune to the prejudices against atheists (and to a slightly lesser, but still very strong degree, Pagans) but region is a BIG factor. We live in New England, and I have very little concern for my children if they decide they are atheists or Pastafarians or humanists or pantheists or Buddhists or whatever. They may not be in the majority, and will almost certainly run into ignorant people (which would happen if they were Christian, there's no escaping them! LOL) but I honestly think that for the most part they will find acceptance or disinterest. Or cloying condescension in the form of the usual "Oh, I'm so sorry for you, your daily experience of joy and gratitude is false, I'll pray for you." But that's better than the harassment, bullying, or even abuse they might expect somewhere else.
In addition to the area we live in, I've also cultivated an inclusive, secular community for my children -- we're members of a Unitarian Universalist church where the secular humanist vein is strong, and as a homeschooling family we're part of a large, nonreligious homeschool group that includes families with all different views on religion (including atheism) - its' a non issue.
Where I grew up (in the Appalachian South) the UU churches are few and far between and if you find one, it's likely to be more focused on a Deity of some kind, and finding a homechool group that doesn't have a "statement of faith," etc -- being openly atheist in that area would be more likely to bring responses of fear. However, even in more religious areas, while it would be more of an issue, I think it's still possible to raise nonreligious children without having their security unduly threatened. Hopefully, at worst, you'd just have to help your children gracefully and confidently address more well-meaning conversion attempts.0 -
Okay everyone..
Time for a group hug...
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Science is not infallible . Man is not infallible . My posts were about love of your fellow man and what you should do to express that love if you see another doing something that you believe with your heart ,soul , and mind will cause them tremendous pain and suffering . Should you turn your head and simply say it is your right ? Is that love ?
The question really makes no sense. Your BELIEF that someone will burn forever in hell because they do not share our faith is a belief, not a provable fact.
Splitting hairs but falling or jumping from a bridge might not kill you , there have been miraculous ( if I may use the word ) instances of falling very great distances and surviving . I also have been very careful not to express just exactly what I believe so hell wasn't brought up by me . I guess what it boils down to is : my belief in .................. is so strong that it is as real to me as the acceptance of gravity is to both of us and why is it considered hate instead of love for me to try and intervene in what I see as catastrophic directions that an individual , group , community , nation , world is going ? In th name of ........... , great atrocities have occurred but not according to the teachings of the faith . My Lord left 2 commandments : love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself . Everything else can be fit into those 2 . If I truly love my neighbor as I love myself and I will not jump why is it hate to try and keep you from jumping ?0 -
Someone's loved one, son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, etc. just died, and they do that.
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They really are sick. I believe in a person's right to protest, but to protest at a funeral is just in bad taste. SEVERELY. Every group has a bad example, most Christians I know are embarrassed by these guys.
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I agree, that WBC is sick, even if they are within their rights. I also agree that they are a terrible example of Christianity, I have no trouble imagining that many Christians are deeply troubled by the behavior of such groups.
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They are a horrible group of people representing Christians. This is not what our bible teaches us. Very poor example of Christian love. I have no desire to be associated with someone that would behave in that manner. Even if I wasn't a Christian I would feel the same way.0 -
Wow is all I can say to a lot of these comments! Christian here! Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I am proud of it! Isn't this a weight loss sight? I'm sure there are a ton of forums and blogs out there where you can "mingle" with people about your same religious or non religious beliefs. And I find it totally offensives that you "don't like Christians" because a few rubbed you the wrong way. Ive had a lot of people rub me the wrong way but I don't put them in a catagory. Prayers for all, and I mean that nicely
I don't think I've see a single person in this thread say they don't like Christians, or that they don't like members of any other religious group for that matter. Many of us have actually noted that belief is a matter of personal choice, and that all people are entitled to make that choice. What some of us have said we do not like is feeling like other people's beliefs are being forced on us in some way (particularly via legislation), but I think most people dislike that feeling. Also, some of us don't like certain fringe "Christian" groups that do things we find deeply troubling, like Westboro Baptist Church protesting people's funerals with signs saying terrible things, but again, I think many people, of all faiths (or lack thereof) are troubled by people saying hurtful things at a funeral. As others have pointed out, many of us have people in our lives that we care for and respect, who happen to be people of faith. Others of us may deeply respect public figures, who happen to be people of faith. At no point have I seen Christian bashing, or anything that I think would be offensive to most people if they actually bothered to read the thread.0 -
Hmm! Well I am a very strong believer in GOD!! And no it was never pushed on me, All of my family has different beliefs. I do not believe that any RELIGION will get you heaven? No Church will get you to heaven? I do believe the Bible! I would never try to convert anyone that is not what it is about. The void you may be feeling could be filled, and I will leave it at that. I think that this is a TERRIBLE topic to be posting on a website for motivation and support for health and weightloss. I can see where topics about religion and politics could really make people leave. There is a reason that each and everyone of us came here. and this site is about FITNESS not RELIGION or POLITICS so why bring it up here. Just thought I would voice my opinion, cause I do care about the people on this site..and I love to help motivate and help people reach their health and fitness goals.
I hope you all find the happiness that you are seeking!
No one forced you, or anyone else to read this thread. If it makes you uncomfortable, it's easy to avoid. I got tired of reading the same 10 threads (e.g. "should I eat back my exercise calories?" or "how can I spot reduce my abs?"), so you know what, I quit clicking on them. Also, obviously at least a few of us WANT to have this conversation, or we wouldn't be here.
And at the same time this is an open forum so this person has every right to post their opi0 -
:flowerforyou:
:drinker:
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What do you believe happens to your body after you die?
It decomposes. This isn't a belief, this is what happens to bodies, unless you preserve them in some way, and even then, it just happens more slowly. We can observe this. Since I don't believe I am anything other than what is in my body, when I die, I believe my consciousness dies with me. A couple of years ago I lost someone very close to me, and it would have been nice to feel like he lived on in some way, but I just don't believe that.
First and foremost, the need to live with other people, which necessitates cooperation to some degree. Beyond that, a sense of respect and compassion.What guides your daily interactions with people in a healthy way?
I have felt depressed, profoundly so at times. I don't think religion would somehow magically fill that "void" (which, by the way, I don't find to be a particularly good description of my experience of depression). To heal myself, I took better care of myself mentally and physically, faced the things that scared me, changed the way I thought about my life and the things that happened to me, and reached out to my loved ones for help and support.If you've ever felt depressed, what filled that void?0 -
What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.
There is research that indicates that, while Celtic marriage was between a man and a woman, when they were "in the field" - away from home for battles, raids, what have you, there was not only a lax attitude toward the warriors engaging in homosexual behaviors, there was a complete acceptance of it as a just what happens. And this was, ostensibly, including the hetero warriors.
Marriage always was a civil contract, a legal binding of two families. In most patriarchal societies, a father gave his daughter in marriage to form ties with another family for very, very unromantic reasons: money, land, protection, allies, etc. Men took wives for position, for money, for allies, and to produce heirs. Because production of heirs was almost entirely the point, it quite naturally had to be a hetero union only.
Our culture is completely different now. Fathers don't give their teenage daughters to a stranger to form an alliance. Bearing "legitimate" children is no longer the point of marriage. People get married to who they want, when they want. "Love" is seen as an absolute requirement, and marriage without it is seen as wrong - marriage for economic reasons is viewed by many as downright immoral. It's pointless to try to maintain a model of marriage that no longer reflects our understanding of the role it plays in our society.0
This discussion has been closed.
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