Government recognizing Gay and Lesbian
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I have mixed feelings on the subject, but most of them have already been discussed here.
What I put forth to all of you is "Where do you draw the line?"
Is Polygamy OK? Can I have multiple civil partners?
Is a union between two brothers OK? Incest was historically banned due to the resulting birth defects.
Does a union even have to have a sexual relationship? Can it be simply two or more people who want the social, legal, and economic benefits of a union?
Is a union with a minor OK? Is it OK if it is non-sexual?
Not trying to stir the debate, just want to give everyone more to consider. Where does society draw the line?0 -
Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.0 -
I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Marriage is pretty much a religious term between a man & a woman, so yeah I agree with you.
So...straight couples who get married at City Hall shouldn't be considered married...?
No, because that's still a marriage (man & woman), the term marriage originates from the bible & the bible says that being gay is an abomination to God, so I don't think it should be called marriage if you understand my reasoning?
I will always fight for your right to get married based on your bible, your marriage should be as biblical as you like.
I just ask that you also support the rights of your fellow Americans to get married according to their own beliefs.0 -
what does this have to do with fitness or weightloss
^ this. It's just going to cause arguments.
what does "what are you doing with your tax return" have to do with fitness or weight loss? If you don't want to discuss a topic, then scroll on by...0 -
paige marie........that word "marriage" has taken a big importance in regards to rights............if a person is legally married, he can take active parts in the decision making process involved with his or her partner.....
the word "union " carrys no weight in the legal world, thats what the gays/lesbians want. They work, pay taxes and some raise kids, why should nt gays be allowed to legal entitlements in case of sickness, death or retirement benefits, ie, social security and pensions..........
certain cities are now paying benefits due for a working spouse. If one works, why shouldnt the other be allowed to be on his/her insurance? I believe in being fair to all.........its mostly the wording that has serious consequences
Im Catholic and am fed up with the way my church makes gays second class citizens.....
this same Church that looked the other way in the sexual abuse kids had to endure for years......
its not surprising that the Catholic Church is losing so many of its members...........I can totally symptathize................Lloyd0 -
Cool Im gonna marry my dogs so my insurance will pay for their vet bills, Those Vet bills get pricey
There is a lot of truth in this statement.
There needs to be a line somewhere. Marriage was designed for families, and for a man and woman to enter into a life together-not so they can get extra benefits.
I don't care if someone is gay or not, that's their choice. I do think homosexuals should have visitation rights and all that stuff regarding hospitals. But I don't believe the meaning and reason behind an important societal building block should be changed because a group has political backing.
but--what about all the heterosexual couples who marry without any intention of having children?? marriage isn't simply for breeding.
Thank you. I am 40, married for 18 years to the same guy, we have no children, nor intend to. Should my marriage not be legal??
Of course it's not all about breeding, but it also shouldn't be based on what kind of sex you have either.
Right. So...why shouldn't my marriage to my wife be legal?
I said it wasn't the only reason, but is is the biggest reason. Marriage is to help society function, to create succeeding generations.
Sure there are people who cannot have children, but they are in the extreme minority of couples. These people can always adopt if they choose. Before you say that gay couples can do the same let me say that I believe children benefit best overall from having a father and a mother raising them.
There are laws for straight people that govern who you can and cannot marry, not just homosexuals.The institution has never been a free for all.
I asked this earlier, should people who subscribe to Sharia Law not be protected under our domestic abuse laws?0 -
what does this have to do with fitness or weightloss
^ this. It's just going to cause arguments.
what does "what are you doing with your tax return" have to do with fitness or weight loss? If you don't want to discuss a topic, then scroll on by...
There's a line between chit chat, fun & games & too controversial for the forums.0 -
I think the government has NO RIGHT to say who can & who can't get married. Just because I am straight & probably wouldn't (never know!) date/marry a women, doesn't at all mean another person shouldn't be able to do that. Do what makes you happy & let others do the same. If you have a problem with 2 men or 2 women getting married I think YOU are the one with the issue, not them. If it makes you uncomfortable to see a gay couple get married, maybe you have some deep seeded problem. I personally love to see a couple of any sexual orientation happy together! I love my Husband & being married is great, the government has no right to deny that feeling to same sex couples. I doubt I will be able to read most of the replies under this original post because I get easily pissed off with close-minded people and their nasty comments about gay people. My best friend is gay, and I find it highly offensive for people to talk badly about gay people, everyone is different, born different, like/attracted to different things, who are you/government to judge!?0
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I agree I have no gay intentions, but I believe they deserve every right and privilege that straight men and women do. We live in the free world, yet we can't seem to get over this last leg of Civil Rights. It's 2012 these are the same people that work 16 hours days in the emergency rooms, climb ladders into burning buildings to save lives. Let us all treat them with the respect they deserve.
^So true!0 -
I never understood this "you have rights that I don't have" argument. I do not have the right to marry just anyone. I have the right to marry a man to whom I am not related, same as every other woman in the country. This is why it is not a constitutional issue.
As for "two consenting adults should be able to get married," really, a brother and sister should be able to get married?
And who said it was "okay" for Kim Kardashian to be married for 72 days? You will not find anyone who objects to gay marriage on religious grounds who thinks it's "okay" to marry someone for 2 months.
I don't believe the government should be in the marriage business at all (a wedding is a religious ceremony, and I don't need the government's help with that any more so than I needed their help at my baptism), but the fact remains that the government IS in the marriage business. As such, I believe it should be a state issue, as it currently is. If you are gay and find yourself living in a state that won't allow you to marry your partner, move. If you are not gay and find yourself living in a state that permits gay marriage and you just can't live with that, move. The feds need to stay out of it.0 -
Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.
I don't believe in any gods, so I don't believe that they made me this way. (which is straight, btw).
Since I don't believe in any gods, I'd like it if you butt out of the lives of other people who don't believe in gods.
If a Catholic or Christian priest doesn't want to marry a gay couple, then fine, that is their religion. But if they want to be legally married then you shouldn't have the right to oppress them.
And if you can teach children that they are loved no matter what, that you shouldn't hate others who are different, then I absolutely support schools letting children know that the world isn't only for Man and Woman couples. You want to tell these children that they are defective? Broken? Sinners? You want to tell them that they should go to hell?
You don't have to teach children that people have sex differently, but you should teach them that it isn't bad if they love differently.0 -
I think some people aren't getting some of the humour in this serious topic here.
Anyway, to clarify a few other things,
Marriage as a word is a union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. However the term is used in a little more modern context to apply to a man and woman becoming legally united into a partnership by law. It has the same sort of meaning to the individuals concerned but would not carry the blessing of "God" in whatever religion. This does not make the couple any less of a united couple than a "married" in a religious way couple. It's a technicality.
Also, this post was put in chit chat as an ASIDE from fitness/weight loss/ weight GAIN (cos some people are trying to do that here too!) so its in a perfectly fine place and a nice intellectually stimulating and philosophical topic to discuss.
Anyhow, I say crack on with legally allowing same sex partnerships as a legal union to give them the same rights as a heterosexual couple! The more diversity in the world, the better! I hate everything to be the same and boring!0 -
I never understood this "you have rights that I don't have" argument. I do not have the right to marry just anyone. I have the right to marry a man to whom I am not related, same as every other woman in the country. This is why it is not a constitutional issue.
As for "two consenting adults should be able to get married," really, a brother and sister should be able to get married?
I agree....it's not about having the same rights, it's about having different/new rights0 -
I am really just in a state of confusion. I am a straight male. I personally am not remotely interested in being with another man, EVER period. I do like that for myself and cannot understand why people of the same sex would want to be with each-other, however I believe in personal choice. As long as it is not hurting other people I have no issue with it. With that being said, why would/should the Government recognize gay and lesbian marriage? I personally think the Government has ZERO rights to ANY marriage straight or gay. So please enlighten me.
States issue marriage licenses, and people who get married are granted certain things non-married people don't get. In most cases taxes are lower for married people filing jointly, especially when there is a large discrepancy in income between the two. If you are married and your spouse is in and accident or has a serious illness, no one can keep you from seeing him/her, and you are the one who makes decisions for hom/her if he/she can't. For unmarried people a parent, or in older people often a sibling, makes those decisions. Occasionally siblings and parents have not allowed life-long partners to see their dying loved one because they don't agree with their choice of partner. This is what is meant by marriage as the word is used today. If you mean a religious ceremony, then the state shouldn't have anything to do with it, but the constitution then provides that no benefit be granted because of it either, including tax or hospital visitation inheritance rights.0 -
Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.
sorry, God made me gay! As for the lady who said she was gay but ended up marrying a man--um, good for her? I know plenty of people who thought they were straight and ended up in a same sex relationship later in life. See, I don't really care what other people do. I don't care if other people feel they were born gay or chose to be gay. To me, it doesn't matter. I don't care what two consenting adults do.
All I want are EQUAL RIGHTS. The bible SHOULD NOT dictate the laws of a country. I'm not asking to be married in a church or by a priest, etc.
And for the record, the bible also says that cutting your hair is a sin, that woman are not equal to men and that wearing synthetic fabrics is immoral. So do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are convenient for you to follow? What about divorce? The bible is pretty clear on that...yet look how many of your leaders end up divorced, married multiple times and with mistresses...
It's just none of your business. It doesn't effect your religion. If you don't agree with same sex marriage, then keep on marrying people of the opposite sex. I think sex with men is ICKY, but I'm not trying to convert you!0 -
Marriage as a word is a union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. However the term is used in a little more modern context to apply to a man and woman becoming legally united into a partnership by law. It has the same sort of meaning to the individuals concerned but would not carry the blessing of "God" in whatever religion. This does not make the couple any less of a united couple than a "married" in a religious way couple. It's a technicality.
This is basically what I meant.0 -
I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Not unless you "call it union or something like that" for straight people too! If the word used is marriage for two people of opposite genders, it needs to be marriage for two people of the same gender as well. Separate but equal wasn't good enough for people of color, and it's not good enough for us. We are not going to accept "something like marriage" unless you do too!0 -
An interesting article on the origins of marriage.
http://www.islandmix.com/backchat/f9/origin-marriage-50901/0 -
I'm not touching this debate with a ten foot pole...
That being said, if anyone on my friends list is reading this, and you're a homophobic d-bag, remove me from your friends please.
Thanks
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Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.
Maybe I'm in a weird mood today, but this is making me laugh out loud. Surely no grown adult is so sheltered that they've only known a single LGBT person in their life, are unaware that bisexuality exists, don't realize that sexuality can be fluid and changing, and don't know the definiation of the word tolerance. It's a pretty compelling argument for why children absolutely need to be educated about sexuality.0
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