Government recognizing Gay and Lesbian

I think some people aren't getting some of the humour in this serious topic here.

Anyway, to clarify a few other things,

Marriage as a word is a union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. However the term is used in a little more modern context to apply to a man and woman becoming legally united into a partnership by law. It has the same sort of meaning to the individuals concerned but would not carry the blessing of "God" in whatever religion. This does not make the couple any less of a united couple than a "married" in a religious way couple. It's a technicality.

Also, this post was put in chit chat as an ASIDE from fitness/weight loss/ weight GAIN (cos some people are trying to do that here too!) so its in a perfectly fine place and a nice intellectually stimulating and philosophical topic to discuss.

Anyhow, I say crack on with legally allowing same sex partnerships as a legal union to give them the same rights as a heterosexual couple! The more diversity in the world, the better! I hate everything to be the same and boring!

I am really just in a state of confusion. I am a straight male. I personally am not remotely interested in being with another man, EVER period. I do like that for myself and cannot understand why people of the same sex would want to be with each-other, however I believe in personal choice. As long as it is not hurting other people I have no issue with it. With that being said, why would/should the Government recognize gay and lesbian marriage? I personally think the Government has ZERO rights to ANY marriage straight or gay. So please enlighten me.

States issue marriage licenses, and people who get married are granted certain things non-married people don't get. In most cases taxes are lower for married people filing jointly, especially when there is a large discrepancy in income between the two. If you are married and your spouse is in and accident or has a serious illness, no one can keep you from seeing him/her, and you are the one who makes decisions for hom/her if he/she can't. For unmarried people a parent, or in older people often a sibling, makes those decisions. Occasionally siblings and parents have not allowed life-long partners to see their dying loved one because they don't agree with their choice of partner. This is what is meant by marriage as the word is used today. If you mean a religious ceremony, then the state shouldn't have anything to do with it, but the constitution then provides that no benefit be granted because of it either, including tax or hospital visitation inheritance rights.

Marriage as a word is a union between a man and a woman in the eyes of God. However the term is used in a little more modern context to apply to a man and woman becoming legally united into a partnership by law. It has the same sort of meaning to the individuals concerned but would not carry the blessing of "God" in whatever religion. This does not make the couple any less of a united couple than a "married" in a religious way couple. It's a technicality.

This is basically what I meant.

An interesting article on the origins of marriage.

http://www.islandmix.com/backchat/f9/origin-marriage-50901/

Agree with the OP.

If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.

There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.

As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced

Where has it been proven that it's genetic?

And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.

(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)

Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.

That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.

That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.

If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.

It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.

Maybe I'm in a weird mood today, but this is making me laugh out loud. Surely no grown adult is so sheltered that they've only known a single LGBT person in their life, are unaware that bisexuality exists, don't realize that sexuality can be fluid and changing, and don't know the definiation of the word tolerance. It's a pretty compelling argument for why children absolutely need to be educated about sexuality.

paige marie...........times change. It was just in the 1920s that women were "allowed" to vote for the first time in their lives. Before that year, nope, they were treated as 2nd class citizens. Same with Blacks in the voting process, and there was a time Blacks and Whites weren't allowed to marry, and one state in the south still has it on its books, but not enforced

seems that you wouldnt be satisfied as a woman not to have the privelege to vote......that would make you feel 2nd class as a person. So maybe you could understand their situation as well.........Best wishes, Lloyd

I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away

Not unless you "call it union or something like that" for straight people too! If the word used is marriage for two people of opposite genders, it needs to be marriage for two people of the same gender as well. Separate but equal wasn't good enough for people of color, and it's not good enough for us. We are not going to accept "something like marriage" unless you do too!

Since when were gay people ever viewed as 2/3 human? Drawing a link between homosexual rights movement and the civil rights movement is a slap in the face to everyone involved.

To all of you people quoting the Bible to celebrate your anti-homosexual viewpoints, read the rest of the book. The parts that tell us to love one another. To be compassionate. To not judge.

Maybe people do have "a choice." But only God has "the right to judge."

I'm a Christian. A TRUE CHRISTIAN. And yet I do not feel like the Bible taught me that homosexuals are to be condemned.

Stop only reading the parts that make you feel better about who you are, and pick up the parts that will teach you how to be a better a better Christian. And a better example of how we're supposed to be.

Stop spreading hate. You won't spread the Word until you do.


Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.

Matthew 5:43-45 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."


1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

paige marie...........times change. It was just in the 1920s that women were "allowed" to vote for the first time in their lives. Before that year, nope, they were treated as 2nd class citizens. Same with Blacks in the voting process, and there was a time Blacks and Whites weren't allowed to marry, and one state in the south still has it on its books, but not enforced

seems that you wouldnt be satisfied as a woman not to have the privelege to vote......that would make you feel 2nd class as a person. So maybe you could understand their situation as well.........Best wishes, Lloyd

I'm not really bothered about voting.

Agree with the OP.

If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.

There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.

As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced

Where has it been proven that it's genetic?

And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.

(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)

Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.

God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.

That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.

That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.

If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.

It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.

sorry, God made me gay! As for the lady who said she was gay but ended up marrying a man--um, good for her? I know plenty of people who thought they were straight and ended up in a same sex relationship later in life. See, I don't really care what other people do. I don't care if other people feel they were born gay or chose to be gay. To me, it doesn't matter. I don't care what two consenting adults do.

All I want are EQUAL RIGHTS. The bible SHOULD NOT dictate the laws of a country. I'm not asking to be married in a church or by a priest, etc.

And for the record, the bible also says that cutting your hair is a sin, that woman are not equal to men and that wearing synthetic fabrics is immoral. So do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are convenient for you to follow? What about divorce? The bible is pretty clear on that...yet look how many of your leaders end up divorced, married multiple times and with mistresses...

It's just none of your business. It doesn't effect your religion. If you don't agree with same sex marriage, then keep on marrying people of the opposite sex. I think sex with men is ICKY, but I'm not trying to convert you!

The Bible dictates whether or not we vote to allow it. And for the record, trying to quote the Bible without the education is a real pet peeve. Old Testament law is quite different since blood was shed for our sins. I disobey the Bible many times every day because I'm human....not as perfect as you think...but to answer your question I do not pick and choose what parts are convenient to follow...unlike most "Christians". That is why my stance is clear on this.

What does me being able to collect my partner's pension have to do with Jesus?

Although I do believe what the Bible says about homosexuality, I'm not basing my opposition against gay marriage on that alone in this discussion.

Whether your attracted to the same sex or not, nobody is forcing you to have sex with the same gender.

Society should be promoting the traditional family, it was a key part in the development of this country.

Many of the problems we have in our society is because the family as an institution is being made to look unimportant.

I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away

Marriage is pretty much a religious term between a man & a woman, so yeah I agree with you.

So...straight couples who get married at City Hall shouldn't be considered married...?

No, because that's still a marriage (man & woman), the term marriage originates from the bible & the bible says that being gay is an abomination to God, so I don't think it should be called marriage if you understand my reasoning?

christians did not invent marriage

Even before the term marriage was coined, it was still man & woman tied together in a ceremony, then the word marriage was applied to that.

Not really. The word "marry" simple means a union in origin. Many cultures had marriages that involved more or less than one man and one woman.

http://provopulse.com/?q=node/1557


Link - views from non-religious standpoint against it.

From your quoted link:

"Yet, I also know that it has been shown that children who are deprived of the parenting of one gender have a very strong tendency toward emotional and/or psychological problems."

Source required. Even is this is the case, that means a homosexual couple can raise a child just as well as a single mother or father. Which, by the way, is pretty damn well.

"To be honest, I believe that if you look, that you will find that nearly all gay men, that were not victims of abuse, came from an unhealthy parenting situation themselves."

Seriously? With the majority of straight marriages that end in divorce today, would we not expect to see the majority of Americans "damaged" enough to be homosexual.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

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Agree with the OP.

If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.

There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.

As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced

Where has it been proven that it's genetic?

From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001

"While genetic factors present some of the most persuasive evidence of a biological basis, it is doubtful that homosexuality is determined by purely biological factors. Rather, this uniquely human phenomenon is a consequence of a multifactorial developmental process in which psychosocial factors remain crucial."

Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

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The problem with the government is they have all seem to forgotten that whole separation of church and state, and they want to make the issue of gay marriage a religious one. It's not. Marriage is a legal agreement entered into by two consenting adults. If those adults want to attach religious significance to their marriage, that is their business. What goes on between two consenting adults is really none of the government's business as long as we pay our taxes. People (gay, straight, bi) get married for all sorts of reasons: tax breaks, benefits, LOVE, whatever. It's a damn shame that we live in a country that's all about "Freedom" but my brother can't marry his partner and my gay friends, who have been together longer than I have been alive, can't get married either.

So should we allow marriages to be run in accordance to Sharia Law? After all, two people entered into the agreement.

As long as the marriage breaks no other laws, such as domestic abuse, child abuse, etc. Sure, I so no reason two consenting adults shouldn't be allowed.

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I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away

Marriage is pretty much a religious term between a man & a woman, so yeah I agree with you.

So...straight couples who get married at City Hall shouldn't be considered married...?

No, because that's still a marriage (man & woman), the term marriage originates from the bible & the bible says that being gay is an abomination to God, so I don't think it should be called marriage if you understand my reasoning?

Not really. Marriage was around way before the bible. Let's not bring religious sensitivities into this because, honestly, they don't belong here. Not to mention, not everyone here is the same religion or even religious for that matter.

Finally, in the US at least, attempting to force someone to do something or refrain from something on the grounds of religion is illegal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

"Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship."

http://provopulse.com/?q=node/1557


Link - views from non-religious standpoint against it.

Except that nothing there is an argument AGAINST gay marriage, it's an argument that gay marriage is unnecessary. ALL marriage is unnecessary by that argument. Every point can be used to argue that straight marriage is unnecessary as well.

I love the "slippery slope/where-do-we-draw-the-line" arguments. lol.

And the arguments that this is the way it always has been? Seriously?

Nothing would ever change if we did things the way they were always done and had never come to an understanding that the way we may have once believed was wrong. And the line drawing arguments - that's basically a straw man-type of argument. Just because some might be afraid of what one decision could CONCEIVABLY by some stretch of the imagination lead to, doesn't mean that the current situation is justified and shouldn't be corrected.