Bye Bye Death Penalty

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  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
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    Where I live, in DuPage County, Illinois, not only did the prosecutor lie and deceive to produce a conviction, he continued to assert that the defendant was guilty after he was cleared by DNA evidence--because he "seemed" suspicious.

    Best part---the prosecutor was later a republican (of course) nominee for governor.

    I hear ya. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Illinois. In the last four decades, Illinois has sent four governors to prison, the big house, big boy jail. 3 democrats and a republican. How many Illinois congressmen have been sent to prison, the most notorious probably being democrat Dan Rostenkowski....I live in Indiana, we buy ads in Illinois inviting companies to pull up stakes and move to tax friendly, freedom loving, Indiana...and it's working.

    My little brother lives up near Kane County....the only thing that keeps him there is a decent job...with a California based company.

    Illinois is a ****-hole. I think it's very telling how many people in politics are convicted of crime there, and no coincidence that our current President is a product of that Chicago thug politicial caste.
  • naku
    naku Posts: 109 Member
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/18/prisonsandprobation-norway
    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/02/international/europe/02FINL.html?pagewanted=all
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/europe/091017/norway-open-prison
    http://www.canadaandtheworld.com/prisonsystemindenmark.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Statistics?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Yeah if prison was supposed to be *hell* for everyone, then why let anyone out at all? The more hellish an environment someone lives in, the less suitable they will be for ever rejoining society. People that will some day be back on the streets do need a way to be rehabilitated.

    But for the most violent criminals and lifers, I'd say prison conditions shouldn't be easy by any means. These people are kept alive because we are treating them humanely, but not for any chance of being released back into society.
  • naku
    naku Posts: 109 Member
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Yeah if prison was supposed to be *hell* for everyone, then why let anyone out at all? The more hellish an environment someone lives in, the less suitable they will be for ever rejoining society. People that will some day be back on the streets do need a way to be rehabilitated.

    But for the most violent criminals and lifers, I'd say prison conditions shouldn't be easy by any means. These people are kept alive because we are treating them humanely, but not for any chance of being released back into society.

    I don't think I agree with that. They are still humans, with (some) human rights. If we take those away from anyone, we are as bad as them.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Yeah if prison was supposed to be *hell* for everyone, then why let anyone out at all? The more hellish an environment someone lives in, the less suitable they will be for ever rejoining society. People that will some day be back on the streets do need a way to be rehabilitated.

    But for the most violent criminals and lifers, I'd say prison conditions shouldn't be easy by any means. These people are kept alive because we are treating them humanely, but not for any chance of being released back into society.

    I don't think I agree with that. They are still humans, with (some) human rights. If we take those away from anyone, we are as bad as them.

    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.
  • naku
    naku Posts: 109 Member
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Yeah if prison was supposed to be *hell* for everyone, then why let anyone out at all? The more hellish an environment someone lives in, the less suitable they will be for ever rejoining society. People that will some day be back on the streets do need a way to be rehabilitated.

    But for the most violent criminals and lifers, I'd say prison conditions shouldn't be easy by any means. These people are kept alive because we are treating them humanely, but not for any chance of being released back into society.

    I don't think I agree with that. They are still humans, with (some) human rights. If we take those away from anyone, we are as bad as them.

    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.

    Naturally, for the most dangerous prisoners there should be a more high-security prison. Of course.
    But people get very long sentences even for crimes that do not make them a danger to others. I don't think those prisoners should be put into the same group just because of the length of their sentence.
  • naku
    naku Posts: 109 Member
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    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.

    Naturally, for the most dangerous prisoners there should be a more high-security prison. Of course.
    But people get very long sentences even for crimes that do not make them a danger to others. I don't think those prisoners should be put into the same group just because of the length of their sentence.

    Just to add, that if a person is about to commit a horrible violent crime (of a level of death penalty), they most probably wont be thinking what kind of an experience prison will be for them... and the decision to commit that crime doesn't depend on the prison system.
  • fightingdissonance
    fightingdissonance Posts: 53
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    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.

    Naturally, for the most dangerous prisoners there should be a more high-security prison. Of course.
    But people get very long sentences even for crimes that do not make them a danger to others. I don't think those prisoners should be put into the same group just because of the length of their sentence.

    Just to add, that if a person is about to commit a horrible violent crime (of a level of death penalty), they most probably wont be thinking what kind of an experience prison will be for them... and the decision to commit that crime doesn't depend on the prison system.

    How people think prison should be seems to depend on whether they look at it as purely punitive, or punitive in a sense that rehabilitates those who can be rehabilitated to rejoin society. Canada is moving towards a more punitive system now after passing the C-10 crime bill, which was a huge issue among many Canadians but passed anyway due to how our system of government works, and it's a downright shame. It's been demonstrated extensively that the rate of recidivism is considerably lower in systems where inmates are rehabilitated, so the tendency for people to want inmates to be treated terribly in prison and then released back into society after their sentence seems very counterproductive.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.

    Naturally, for the most dangerous prisoners there should be a more high-security prison. Of course.
    But people get very long sentences even for crimes that do not make them a danger to others. I don't think those prisoners should be put into the same group just because of the length of their sentence.

    Just to add, that if a person is about to commit a horrible violent crime (of a level of death penalty), they most probably wont be thinking what kind of an experience prison will be for them... and the decision to commit that crime doesn't depend on the prison system.

    I think some people can be deterred from committing murder, but many cannot. For instance I think you see less gang-related murders than you would see if the penalties were lighter. But when it comes to serial rapists/murders, those types cannot be deterred.
  • Marll
    Marll Posts: 904 Member
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    The fact alone that they have these things provided for them, 3 square meals a day, exercise time, clothing, bedding, and a place relatively safe is more than most people get without busting their humps to get is too good for them. Prison should be hell, it should make you not want to re-offend.

    Yet in countries where prison is more humane concentrating on rehabilitation and giving the prisoners as much freedom as possible, re-offending rates are the lowest in the world.

    Yeah if prison was supposed to be *hell* for everyone, then why let anyone out at all? The more hellish an environment someone lives in, the less suitable they will be for ever rejoining society. People that will some day be back on the streets do need a way to be rehabilitated.

    But for the most violent criminals and lifers, I'd say prison conditions shouldn't be easy by any means. These people are kept alive because we are treating them humanely, but not for any chance of being released back into society.

    I don't think I agree with that. They are still humans, with (some) human rights. If we take those away from anyone, we are as bad as them.

    I agree they have rights, which is why I say don't kill them or torture them. But I also think we need to deter people from committing violent crimes and making prison too easy is counter-productive. I think the prison environment should be proportional to the crimes committed and length of sentence.

    We can agree on one thing, the prison environment should be proportional to the type of offense.
  • Poison5119
    Poison5119 Posts: 1,460 Member
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    Being pro-choice and opposing the death penalty are not mutually exclusive. They are two entirely separate issues that have zero overlap, unless of course you're uninformed and looking to advance a muddled agenda.

    Nice try, yourself.

    So wait a second, just so I understand, killing a fetus, which will become an innocent baby human being is ok, but killing someone that is already born, and has done horrible things to other people is NOT ok? I don't have an issue with emergency contraception, or abortion in the cases of rape (mostly because of the trauma inflicted on the mother, and the loathing that would likely be placed on the child), but I'm still baffled how sparing the life of a criminal low life is better than sparing the life of a child?

    This^^

    My opinion is that if someone is pro-choice - they should also be pro death penalty. The ADULT on death row HAD HIS SHOT AT LIFE and screwed it up - no matter what the reason given or reasons people think he's all innocent and just needs a hug and some meds and to sit in a corner by himself.

    But the unborn child hasn't even had a go of it, and yet, it's COMPLETELY SUBJECT to the whimsy of the container it's being carried in.

    Screwed up if you ask me. And yes, they are linked. As I said before, dead is dead. The fact that one of the dead ones (the unborn fetus), didn't get a gulp of air and is then determined NOT HUMAN in any way, is a justification of the most evil kind. But then again, those who don't care, don't even believe evil exists.
  • BazAbroad
    BazAbroad Posts: 248
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    Sorry,
    am out the door 2 work in 2 mins so cannot read all the above.
    But.
    Should b more killing of criminals, and harsher sentences.
    The crims have it too easy these days.
    What it costs to keep em in jail, make em do hard labour or work for reduced sentences.
    Oh I could rant for ages on this one,
    gotta go,,

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