"Old Fashioned" or "Traditional" gender roles
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I'm with Chris. It seems people are not 100% invested in their relationships anymore, which is why I will most likely be single forever.
I think his point that having your own financial identity=lack of total investment is off. Marriage is about total emotional investment. Commitment of the mind and heart. How the heck that has to do with my bank account is puzzling to me, honestly. Things edge to the point of controlling when "totally invested" necessarily MUST include every other aspect of your identity.
Because for many people, you're combining lives, not just emotional investment. Even the legal nature of marriage includes this. If that's not for you...that's 100% within your rights, and I certainly respect it. I'm telling you why what you suggest, isn't for me.
And by the way, it has nothing to do with controlling, unless you're saying she's controlling me too, which sort of confuses that issue more than a little, don't you think?0 -
^^^
Exactly. I'm not trying to offend anyone to my way of thinking, just that for me, it has to be all or nothing.0 -
as long as your pretty much best friends and get along who really cares hahaha ill go mow the lawn and he can make dinner for all i care
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We all bring our own family/personal experience to this issue I think. I come from a long long line of kicka$$ women, not to say the men weren't tough and good (in most cases). However it really was the women who kept things going. My great-grandmother outlived two husbands and kept the family together through the depression. My great-grandfather (her second husband) went off to war and she kept the farm going and took over driving the trucks and the school bus. He got back from war and they worked side by side together for 10 years until he had a heart attack and died. She just stepped up and did it all alone again for another 15 years. My grandmother also ran the house and finances while my grandfather worked away most of the time.
Then my mum was a single mother after my father ran out before I was born. So I grew up watching women for 3 generations drive trucks, milk cows, fix fences, negotiate prices etc etc. It wasn't about distrust of men or lack of vulnerability, it was simply about necessity. The women in my family showed 100% love, faith, loyalty and commitment to their men. But that had nothing to do with the fact that they needed to be able to run *kitten*. That is the way I feel. I couldn't love my husband more, but to me that is totally unrelated to my ability to provide for myself in the event that anything ever happened. I just don't think I would ever be comfortable getting used to a life that I couldn't provide for myself.0 -
if i see "old fashioned/traditional" in a dating ad, I presume the person is into spanking.0
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We all bring our own family/personal experience to this issue I think. I come from a long long line of kicka$$ women, not to say the men weren't tough and good (in most cases). However it really was the women who kept things going. My great-grandmother outlived two husbands and kept the family together through the depression. My great-grandfather (her second husband) went off to war and she kept the farm going and took over driving the trucks and the school bus. He got back from war and they worked side by side together for 10 years until he had a heart attack and died. She just stepped up and did it all alone again for another 15 years. My grandmother also ran the house and finances while my grandfather worked away most of the time.
Then my mum was a single mother after my father ran out before I was born. So I grew up watching women for 3 generations drive trucks, milk cows, fix fences, negotiate prices etc etc. It wasn't about distrust of men or lack of vulnerability, it was simply about necessity. The women in my family showed 100% love, faith, loyalty and commitment to their men. But that had nothing to do with the fact that they needed to be able to run *kitten*. That is the way I feel. I couldn't love my husband more, but to me that is totally unrelated to my ability to provide for myself in the event that anything ever happened. I just don't think I would ever be comfortable getting used to a life that I couldn't provide for myself.
That's funny...I grew up in a ranching tradition as well (fifth generation here, I grew up on a 192k acre cattle ranch). Anyone who grew up in that kind of household would never make the mistake of thinking women were weak. Ever. Period. That's whether it was a situation like yours, where they had to be strong (or rather, display outwardly the internal strength they already had), or situations like mine where they were never fully called on to do so...but if you stepped out of line, or were disrespectful for even half a second, you were forcibly snapped back in/corrected, right now.
That's what kind of makes me laugh when I hear that the way I was taught to treat women is disrespectful or controlling. If only they knew the women that taught me...you know? I'd put any amount of money you can imagine on my great grandmother or grandmother against any ten of these women in a contest of will, and never once doubt the outcome. You did NOT control those women. Period. Anything given by them was cherished, because you knew you earned it.
And at the same time, they were the kindest, most generous (with love) women I've ever met. After 37 years I'm starting to realize their example has kind of spoiled me for anything else, really.0 -
Now thats a gentleman.Herein lies the problem wth LABELS... They are just that and are basically useless beyond that. It is the personal definition of that label that really matters. I am a pretty traditional person... and I believe that significant females (mother, wife) should be preferred, honored, and cherished... But if they happen to make more than me and I have to do more domestic chores around the house from time to time, so be it. It is all about cooperation and preferring one another.0 -
We all bring our own family/personal experience to this issue I think. I come from a long long line of kicka$$ women, not to say the men weren't tough and good (in most cases). However it really was the women who kept things going. My great-grandmother outlived two husbands and kept the family together through the depression. My great-grandfather (her second husband) went off to war and she kept the farm going and took over driving the trucks and the school bus. He got back from war and they worked side by side together for 10 years until he had a heart attack and died. She just stepped up and did it all alone again for another 15 years. My grandmother also ran the house and finances while my grandfather worked away most of the time.
Then my mum was a single mother after my father ran out before I was born. So I grew up watching women for 3 generations drive trucks, milk cows, fix fences, negotiate prices etc etc. It wasn't about distrust of men or lack of vulnerability, it was simply about necessity. The women in my family showed 100% love, faith, loyalty and commitment to their men. But that had nothing to do with the fact that they needed to be able to run *kitten*. That is the way I feel. I couldn't love my husband more, but to me that is totally unrelated to my ability to provide for myself in the event that anything ever happened. I just don't think I would ever be comfortable getting used to a life that I couldn't provide for myself.
That's funny...I grew up in a ranching tradition as well (fifth generation here, I grew up on a 192k acre cattle ranch). Anyone who grew up in that kind of household would never make the mistake of thinking women were weak. Ever. Period. That's whether it was a situation like yours, where they had to be strong (or rather, display outwardly the internal strength they already had), or situations like mine where they were never fully called on to do so...but if you stepped out of line, or were disrespectful for even half a second, you were forcibly snapped back in/corrected, right now.
That's what kind of makes me laugh when I hear that the way I was taught to treat women is disrespectful or controlling. If only they knew the women that taught me...you know? I'd put any amount of money you can imagine on my great grandmother or grandmother against any ten of these women in a contest of will, and never once doubt the outcome. You did NOT control those women. Period. Anything given by them was cherished, because you knew you earned it.
And at the same time, they were the kindest, most generous (with love) women I've ever met. After 37 years I'm starting to realize their example has kind of spoiled me for anything else, really.
Yep, I saw my grandmothers absolutely *own* men who thought they could rip them off or manipulate them. Again it was about necessity, not feminism:)0 -
Haha I actually had a run in with something similar on what my tattoo on my back was about. To me, being traditional is old fashioned. Now, you know, alot of things are modern, "spiced up", and "personalized" to fit a person's own style, favorite colors, etc. As far as gender roles go:
Male roles:
The "bread" winner/ the provider/ the protector...
Full time job/ Finds a way to provide for the wife or family. This starts off with a place to call home and as protection to
keep said wife or family safe and together.
Female roles:
The homemaker/ "stress reliever"/ the nurturer...
Instead of harsh labor, she tends to the home, making sure it is comfortable for her man or family to enjoy their
happiness in, makes the meals to nourish themselves. Because she does not work or do hard labor, the least she
can do is make the male feel welcome back home from what men would say as a "hard day at work. As female
notices what hard work has been done to keep her or his family safe and comfortable, she, in return, will provide
remarkable affection.
The little things:
Not all males are as romantic or chivalrous as us females want them to be. IMHO, what gets my heart beating is seeing even just a tiny bit of effort that they would like to be.
As far as women's rights and yadda yadda, again this is my opinion. If the women would rather work, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I do know alot of men who like to stay home and play the non traditional roles. If you love someone, you'll know it because you just want them happy. That's why traditional roles don't really matter now.0 -
As far as women's rights and yadda yadda, again this is my opinion. If the women would rather work, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I do know alot of men who like to stay home and play the non traditional roles. If you love someone, you'll know it because you just want them happy. That's why traditional roles don't really matter now.
I actually wonder if... gasp... men might even have it a little harder than women in this respect. It's not just about a woman being a truck driver or CEO if she wants to, it's also about a man being the SAHP or nurse or hairdresser.0 -
I believe when a guy says hes old fashioned that it means he has a lot of respect for women. thats he's polite and doesn't look at women like meat. that he wants to to take things slow and really get to know a girl. as far as paying, id say def on the first date, and at least offer on the second...if it was me, on the second id offer to split it...but thats bc im to nice and would feel bad that he kept spending money on me lol0
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If I saw an ad where a man said that I wouldn't be interested. To me it means the man is the head of the household and supports his family financially and the woman stays home... nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me.0
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As far as women's rights and yadda yadda, again this is my opinion. If the women would rather work, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I do know alot of men who like to stay home and play the non traditional roles. If you love someone, you'll know it because you just want them happy. That's why traditional roles don't really matter now.
I actually wonder if... gasp... men might even have it a little harder than women in this respect. It's not just about a woman being a truck driver or CEO if she wants to, it's also about a man being the SAHP or nurse or hairdresser.
Another very observant post...and while I don't know many men that want to do this (at least outwardly), I do know that the ones that do...are often looked down on. Not always (for me it's to each their own), and not always in big ways...but it certainly happens.
Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
I'll just say it this way...they have LOTS of time to work out =p.0 -
As far as women's rights and yadda yadda, again this is my opinion. If the women would rather work, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I do know alot of men who like to stay home and play the non traditional roles. If you love someone, you'll know it because you just want them happy. That's why traditional roles don't really matter now.
I actually wonder if... gasp... men might even have it a little harder than women in this respect. It's not just about a woman being a truck driver or CEO if she wants to, it's also about a man being the SAHP or nurse or hairdresser.
Stay at home dads are great. When I started hs years ago my dad stayed home and my mom went to work. They're both retired now but it worked out pretty well. My mom wanted to work but my parents are not into the whole baby sitter thing since they don't trust strangers with their kids.
My dad still did all the "manly" stuff. Like he always fixed up around the house, worked on cars, and definitely kept us all in line. Even though they had other investments and technically weren't living off of one income, I'd still consider him to be a stay at home parent. I kind of feel like some people will say that it doesn't count because of that.
I do remember some of my friends finding it weird, but its possible they were just curious since it isn't common.0 -
As far as women's rights and yadda yadda, again this is my opinion. If the women would rather work, so be it. Nothing wrong with that. I do know alot of men who like to stay home and play the non traditional roles. If you love someone, you'll know it because you just want them happy. That's why traditional roles don't really matter now.
I actually wonder if... gasp... men might even have it a little harder than women in this respect. It's not just about a woman being a truck driver or CEO if she wants to, it's also about a man being the SAHP or nurse or hairdresser.
Stay at home dads are great. When I started hs years ago my dad stayed home and my mom went to work. They're both retired now but it worked out pretty well. My mom wanted to work but my parents are not into the whole baby sitter thing since they don't trust strangers with their kids.
My dad still did all the "manly" stuff. Like he always fixed up around the house, worked on cars, and definitely kept us all in line. Even though they had other investments and technically weren't living off of one income, I'd still consider him to be a stay at home parent. I kind of feel like some people will say that it doesn't count because of that.
I do remember some of my friends finding it weird, but its possible they were just curious since it isn't common.
I technically don't feel there's anything wrong with this, assuming the guy isn't lazing away the days doing nothing. There was a long period a couple years ago when there was no work to be had, where I stayed home and my sons mother worked as a pharmacy tech at a hospital. We lived on some of the savings I'd put away, her income, and money I made bladesmithing (like blacksmithing, only...knives etc...you know...hammer, forge, anvil...there's a picture in my profile) at home. I loved it...I had the freedom to pursue a hobby/profession I loved, brought in some money (not as much as she did at the time), and was able to make sure the kids had care, that wasn't a stranger as you said. Technically I wasn't a 'stay at home Dad' either I suppose (I never looked at myself that way)...but many people thought I was.
What's funny, is prior to losing my construction company (economy), I was the one that made all the money. My ex never worked a day in her life before that job at the hospital.0 -
Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
hmmmm chicken or egg thing I think... I wonder if it is precisely because they are comfortable with their own masculinity that they've been more comfortable in taking that role. I know that there are many things about my husband which on paper, in isolation, don't sound particularly 'manly'. He loves to cook, he loves clothes... the man has a collection of bow-ties with matching pocket squares and blue suede shoes:) But the reality is at 6'5". 100kg and with a boof-head, he just simply couldn't come off as anything but masculine... I think if we have kids we'll proabbly both have a go at being the SAHP and see who likes it better:)0 -
Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
hmmmm chicken or egg thing I think... I wonder if it is precisely because they are comfortable with their own masculinity that they've been more comfortable in taking that role. I know that there are many things about my husband which on paper, in isolation, don't sound particularly 'manly'. He loves to cook, he loves clothes... the man has a collection of bow-ties with matching pocket squares and blue suede shoes:) But the reality is at 6'5". 100kg and with a boof-head, he just simply couldn't come off as anything but masculine... I think if we have kids we'll proabbly both have a go at being the SAHP and see who likes it better:)
That's definitely a good plan I think. There's no reason both parents can't take turns staying home at different stages in life. My dad loves to cook too. I actually think a lot of guys do when they're good at it.0 -
Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
hmmmm chicken or egg thing I think... I wonder if it is precisely because they are comfortable with their own masculinity that they've been more comfortable in taking that role. I know that there are many things about my husband which on paper, in isolation, don't sound particularly 'manly'. He loves to cook, he loves clothes... the man has a collection of bow-ties with matching pocket squares and blue suede shoes:) But the reality is at 6'5". 100kg and with a boof-head, he just simply couldn't come off as anything but masculine... I think if we have kids we'll proabbly both have a go at being the SAHP and see who likes it better:)
That's definitely a good plan I think. There's no reason both parents can't take turns staying home at different stages in life. My dad loves to cook too. I actually think a lot of guys do when they're good at it.
My parents work opposite shifts and have my whole life. Loved having a mom during the day and a dad at night....it was the best of both worlds! I never had to go to daycare or have babysitters, and there was always a parent for activities.0 -
Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
hmmmm chicken or egg thing I think... I wonder if it is precisely because they are comfortable with their own masculinity that they've been more comfortable in taking that role. I know that there are many things about my husband which on paper, in isolation, don't sound particularly 'manly'. He loves to cook, he loves clothes... the man has a collection of bow-ties with matching pocket squares and blue suede shoes:) But the reality is at 6'5". 100kg and with a boof-head, he just simply couldn't come off as anything but masculine... I think if we have kids we'll proabbly both have a go at being the SAHP and see who likes it better:)
That's definitely a good plan I think. There's no reason both parents can't take turns staying home at different stages in life. My dad loves to cook too. I actually think a lot of guys do when they're good at it.
Growing up on a ranch...you learn to cook, man or woman...and personally, I love it as well. My parents used to have us over regularly, for me to cook dinner lol.
I also agree that this isn't a bad way to go about things. My grandparents for example...my grandpa worked the ranch, and later in life the farm (basically stay at home, if 'home' was a bit bigger than the typical concept for one), and my grandmother worked various jobs. Partially for their sanity, and partially to help support the day to day things between seasonal paydays.
*shrug*
But I can guarantee you...when my grandparents were courting, she never paid for a single solitary thing
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Oddly enough, the few I do know...are very masculine type guys, and it doesn't bother them in the least that they're looked down on for it. They are CERTAINLY not the types that most people would have the courage to say it directly to lol.
hmmmm chicken or egg thing I think... I wonder if it is precisely because they are comfortable with their own masculinity that they've been more comfortable in taking that role. I know that there are many things about my husband which on paper, in isolation, don't sound particularly 'manly'. He loves to cook, he loves clothes... the man has a collection of bow-ties with matching pocket squares and blue suede shoes:) But the reality is at 6'5". 100kg and with a boof-head, he just simply couldn't come off as anything but masculine... I think if we have kids we'll proabbly both have a go at being the SAHP and see who likes it better:)
That's definitely a good plan I think. There's no reason both parents can't take turns staying home at different stages in life. My dad loves to cook too. I actually think a lot of guys do when they're good at it.
Growing up on a ranch...you learn to cook, man or woman...and personally, I love it as well. My parents used to have us over regularly, for me to cook dinner lol.
I also agree that this isn't a bad way to go about things. My grandparents for example...my grandpa worked the ranch, and later in life the farm (basically stay at home, if 'home' was a bit bigger than the typical concept for one), and my grandmother worked various jobs. Partially for their sanity, and partially to help support the day to day things between seasonal paydays.
*shrug*
But I can guarantee you...when my grandparents were courting, she never paid for a single solitary thing
HA, totally!! When my great-grandfather was courting my great-grandmother she was already a widow with 3 kids. He tried to charm her apparently and she told him where to go. So he turned up at her place every day for a week with something they needed. First a load of wood, then a couple dozen eggs etc until eventually she agreed to 'step out' with him 0
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