Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

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  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    Anyway, what I was going to ask before my topic got locked was 'What is the vegan stance on killing insects?' Either through phobia or pesticides and insecticides used on massive farms.

    I know people who get really upset if you squish a bug. Sometimes if a bug is on me I freak and squish, but I don't eat it afterwards.

    Is that REALLY any different from shooting a deer in the head? I know, i'm being an *kitten*. But I feel it's a valid argument! However, this is directed more at the hardcore 'don't use any animal products or you're an evil, unfeeling individual' vegans. Had a rather funny image of someone squishing a bug on their arm and then curiously putting it in their mouth.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    Anyway, what I was going to ask before my topic got locked was 'What is the vegan stance on killing insects?' Either through phobia or pesticides and insecticides used on massive farms.

    I know people who get really upset if you squish a bug. Sometimes if a bug is on me I freak and squish, but I don't eat it afterwards.
    So wasteful, ugh. People like you are serial killers.


    Or something.

    Better than being a cereal killer :D

    I was a cereal killer this morning. Felt good.
  • hallie_b
    hallie_b Posts: 175 Member
    Anyway, what I was going to ask before my topic got locked was 'What is the vegan stance on killing insects?' Either through phobia or pesticides and insecticides used on massive farms.

    I know people who get really upset if you squish a bug. Sometimes if a bug is on me I freak and squish, but I don't eat it afterwards.
    So wasteful, ugh. People like you are serial killers.


    Or something.

    Better than being a cereal killer :D

    I dressed like a cereal killer for Halloween one year... I don't recommend sticking Corn Pops to your cheek, they are hard to peel off.
  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member
    I dressed like a cereal killer for Halloween one year... I don't recommend sticking Corn Pops to your cheek, they are hard to peel off.

    Haha.

    I tried dressing as a nerd, and nobody realized it was a costume :(
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    I dressed like a cereal killer for Halloween one year... I don't recommend sticking Corn Pops to your cheek, they are hard to peel off.

    Haha.

    I tried dressing as a nerd, and nobody realized it was a costume :(

    Nerds win at life.
  • ZombieSlayer
    ZombieSlayer Posts: 369 Member
    Better than being a cereal killer :D

    That offends me. I enjoy being a cereal killer. :grumble:


    :laugh: :laugh:
  • hallie_b
    hallie_b Posts: 175 Member
    I do want to know if any of the vegans or vegetarians on here miss eating meat. I live in NJ and miss Taylor Ham. That is really the only thing I miss, small sacrifice I guess.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    I do want to know if any of the vegans or vegetarians on here miss eating meat. I live in NJ and miss Taylor Ham. That is really the only thing I miss, small sacrifice I guess.

    Good question. Discuss.
  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member
    edited for excessive sarcasm :)
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Torture means to inflict severe phsyical or mental pain upon. That is the dictionary defintion. Shooting an animal, particularly if the shot does not immediately kill the animal fits the definition. I never saw a hunter who was sober enough to kill on the first shot.

    Problem with absolutes is that it just takes one black swan......

    Agreed.

    To the antagonist - if you truly don't know hunters who are sober when they hunt, then you only know trophy and tourist hunters. Real hunters that hunt for food know better than to be an idiot and handle high powered firearms while under the influence. Additionally, most food hunters will at least try to hit an area where the animal will die swiftly, and if they encounter one that is wounded to the point the hunter can approach it, but hasn't died, they will kill it with a shot to head to end its suffering.

    Not only that, but many (if not most) food hunters aren't barbarians. In fact, they often have a very deep respect for animals, because they know that the animals are sacrificing their lives so that the hunters may live (yes, there are still some areas and situations, even in America, where people do, in fact, have to hunt in order to keep from starving).

    That said, everything that is living dies eventually. Some slowly, some swiftly. Death is a part of life, there are worse things than it (such as torture; and yes, I do believe that torture and death are two totally different things). Nearly every living thing on this planet has to deprive another of food or life in order to live (yes, even plants, as they steal the nutrients from other plants; and yes, even herbivores and those that only eat seeds, because they maim and/or kill that which they eat or deprive the seed from becoming a new plant.
  • jg627
    jg627 Posts: 1,221 Member
    Your thread overflowed, so it automatically spun it off into a new thread and locked the old one.

    :)

    Haha! This feels like an achievement.

    'You have unlocked the 'Locked' achievement!'
    That's gold trophy if you play the ps3 version. Congratulations!

    I prefer Steam achievements! But i'll happily take that as my second choice.

    PC > Xbox 360 > Beubonic Plague > PS3
    Oh no you didn't! I'm gonna have to go all Toucan son of Sam up in here!
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    Torture means to inflict severe phsyical or mental pain upon. That is the dictionary defintion. Shooting an animal, particularly if the shot does not immediately kill the animal fits the definition. I never saw a hunter who was sober enough to kill on the first shot.

    Problem with absolutes is that it just takes one black swan......

    Agreed.

    To the antagonist - if you truly don't know hunters who are sober when they hunt, then you only know trophy and tourist hunters. Real hunters that hunt for food know better than to be an idiot and handle high powered firearms while under the influence. Additionally, most food hunters will at least try to hit an area where the animal will die swiftly, and if they encounter one that is wounded to the point the hunter can approach it, but hasn't died, they will kill it with a shot to head to end its suffering.

    Not only that, but many (if not most) food hunters aren't barbarians. In fact, they often have a very deep respect for animals, because they know that the animals are sacrificing their lives so that the hunters may live (yes, there are still some areas and situations, even in America, where people do, in fact, have to hunt in order to keep from starving).

    That said, everything that is living dies eventually. Some slowly, some swiftly. Death is a part of life, there are worse things than it (such as torture; and yes, I do believe that torture and death are two totally different things). Nearly every living thing on this planet has to deprive another of food or life in order to live (yes, even plants, as they steal the nutrients from other plants; and yes, even herbivores and those that only eat seeds, because they maim and/or kill that which they eat or deprive the seed from becoming a new plant.

    A good example of this is the massive drop in Red squirrels in Britain due to the grey squirrel invasion years ago. They massively deprived the red squirrel of food and so, guess what? A lot of them died of starvation. Or struggled to reproduce.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    edited for excessive sarcasm :)

    I thought the previous comment was a hoot! :D
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    Bump (as a marker to myself), in case this gets interesting again.
  • tmauck4472
    tmauck4472 Posts: 1,785 Member
    I have come from a long line of hunters..some who drink some who don't , most kill on their first shot and NON have ever killed a human being. But will shoot a spider if it gets close enough to them. But I'm sad to say that I personally killed 23 mice last winter, they had the nerve to want to live in my house and I being the kind hearted, I mean evil B**** that I am could not have this..they refused to pay rent and all the wanted to do was poop everywhere and not clean up after them selves. Not to mention the the dog food they ate. My dog has to eat, the mice well they can die..oh wait they did. Do I feel bad? Ummm NO...lol.
  • scinamon1
    scinamon1 Posts: 158 Member
    I was vegan and didn't agree with killing insects but, cos I bought on a budget, I couldn't afford organic. Also, things like mushrooms have insects in,and shredded frozen spinach can have mice in because when they pick the spinach the same machine shreds at the same time. There's a certain number that are allowed in food (even things like beetles dying in yoghurt vats in factories) and companies are still allowed to call them vegetarian.

    Although I won't kill a fly if it is in the house, I eat mushrooms etc. (but only fresh, unshredded spinach now :S). Also, if you cycle or run, you can swallow flies very easily. Although you can spit them out most of the time it doesn't always work... A bit more protein!

    You can't really help these- if you try to not eat anything with insects in your diet is basically bananas, potatoes and very carefully washed lettuce leaves.
  • Tropical_Turtle
    Tropical_Turtle Posts: 2,236 Member
    I love how the word serial killers is being tossed around when I am sure you have NEVER been around an actual serial killer and wouldnt know the difference between a hunter or a serial killer. They are NOT the one in the same.

    *and FYI I do work around serial killers (yes real men who have been tried and convicted of crimes such as) and I have friends who hunt*
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    I do want to know if any of the vegans or vegetarians on here miss eating meat. I live in NJ and miss Taylor Ham. That is really the only thing I miss, small sacrifice I guess.

    Not me. I was raised as a meat eater, and I sometimes still react to the aromas of cooking meat but the thought of actually eating animal flesh .... gahh.... shudder ...

    The last time I accidentally ate meat I actually did get sick. It was psychological of course, but I still felt completely nauseous.
  • jmruef
    jmruef Posts: 824 Member
    One question I have for vegetarians/vegans: Do you eat meat *flavored* stuff? If you found something that was absolutely vegan but tasted like a really yummy steak (assuming taste is NOT why you chose veganism/vegetarianism), would you be okay with that?

    Odd question, but inquiring minds and all that...
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    I love how the word serial killers is being tossed around when I am sure you have NEVER been around an actual serial killer and wouldnt know the difference between a hunter or a serial killer. They are NOT the one in the same.

    *and FYI I do work around serial killers (yes real men who have been tried and convicted of crimes such as) and I have friends who hunt*

    I worked in forensic psych many years ago. Many sociopaths are so slick that they are difficult to detect from the general population. That's a chilling fact. One of these patients killed his whole family, and you would never guess.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    One question I have for vegetarians/vegans: Do you eat meat *flavored* stuff? If you found something that was absolutely vegan but tasted like a really yummy steak (assuming taste is NOT why you chose veganism/vegetarianism), would you be okay with that?

    Odd question, but inquiring minds and all that...
    Not a silly question, a friend of mine has never eaten meat in his life but he eats beef flavoured pot noodles.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    I love how the word serial killers is being tossed around when I am sure you have NEVER been around an actual serial killer and wouldnt know the difference between a hunter or a serial killer. They are NOT the one in the same.

    *and FYI I do work around serial killers (yes real men who have been tried and convicted of crimes such as) and I have friends who hunt*

    I worked in forensic psych many years ago. Many sociopaths are so slick that they are difficult to detect from the general population. That's a chilling fact. One of these patients killed his whole family, and you would never guess.

    I'm studying forensic and legal psychology as one of my modules and I have an exam on offender profiling next week (y)
  • AsAnonymous
    AsAnonymous Posts: 4
    I am a vegetarian. Meat is simply disgusting.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    I have never liked steak, so technically, no. But, bring on a totally vegan medium-rare grilled 'hamburger', and I'd love it. One thing I know though: even if lab-grown meat is totally cruelty-free, I wouldn't eat it. The idea of chewing and swallowing animal flesh is repugnant to me. But, I'd love it for my cats, since I feel really conflicted about killing one animal to feed another.
  • BrokenButterfly
    BrokenButterfly Posts: 224
    I have never liked steak, so technically, no. But, bring on a totally vegan medium-rare grilled 'hamburger', and I'd love it. One thing I know though: even if lab-grown meat is totally cruelty-free, I wouldn't eat it. The idea of chewing and swallowing animal flesh is repugnant to me. But, I'd love it for my cats, since I feel really conflicted about killing one animal to feed another.

    I saw something on the telly-box about growing meat in labs... the idea of that made me heave. It looked awful. But it's probably no worse looking than actual animal flesh to a veggie.
  • AsAnonymous
    AsAnonymous Posts: 4
    Like you said, I'm a vegetarian because I'd rather not eat animals, not because I didn't like the taste of meat. My favorite brand of
    "fake meat" is Morning Star, they do a really good job. It also provides a lot of protein for me. I eat it all the time.
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
    One question I have for vegetarians/vegans: Do you eat meat *flavored* stuff? If you found something that was absolutely vegan but tasted like a really yummy steak (assuming taste is NOT why you chose veganism/vegetarianism), would you be okay with that?

    Odd question, but inquiring minds and all that...

    It's not really an odd question, and some veg*ns (covers vegans and vegetarians) don't. I find it depends on the product. I don't have any problem with vegetarian breakfast 'sausage" since all you're really tasting is the spices. However, I can't eat vegan "turkey" because it tastes so much like the real thing, I just can't get past it. In that case it actually taste like meat instead of "round patties with dill spices".

    So in that case, no I couldn't eat a fake vegan steak if it was too real tasting. I'd be okay with it ethically, and mentally, but I'd be blocked by the realistic taste.
  • jmruef
    jmruef Posts: 824 Member
    Well, that was really my question - if it TASTED like meat but WASN'T Meat, contained no animal products whatsoever...does taste enter into it at all?
  • jmruef
    jmruef Posts: 824 Member
    One question I have for vegetarians/vegans: Do you eat meat *flavored* stuff? If you found something that was absolutely vegan but tasted like a really yummy steak (assuming taste is NOT why you chose veganism/vegetarianism), would you be okay with that?

    Odd question, but inquiring minds and all that...

    It's not really an odd question, and some veg*ns (covers vegans and vegetarians) don't. I find it depends on the product. I don't have any problem with vegetarian breakfast 'sausage" since all you're really tasting is the spices. However, I can't eat vegan "turkey" because it tastes so much like the real thing, I just can't get past it. In that case it actually taste like meat instead of "round patties with dill spices".

    So in that case, no I couldn't eat a fake vegan steak if it was too real tasting. I'd be okay with it ethically, and mentally, but I'd be blocked by the realistic taste.

    Interesting! Thanks so much for your response.
  • Xanovira
    Xanovira Posts: 11
    One question I have for vegetarians/vegans: Do you eat meat *flavored* stuff? If you found something that was absolutely vegan but tasted like a really yummy steak (assuming taste is NOT why you chose veganism/vegetarianism), would you be okay with that?

    Odd question, but inquiring minds and all that...

    It's not that odd, although I do think it depends on the person answering... many "extremist" vegans that I've come into contact with are ridiculously opposed to it. I eat meat flavored stuff as long as it wasn't derived from actual meat. I don't eat meat for spiritual/cultural reasons and I suppose that that's the difference.

    That said, I do support hunters who do it for food; I'm against prolonged suffering, not the actual consumption of meat. I just don't have it in me to kill something (outside of self-defense and preservation) myself, hence why I am a vegetarian.
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