Vegetarianism. Seriously? (A Debate)

She's so light, she actually floats.

I weigh more than all of these people put together. Including the car.

Haha did you really just imply that these people are a) unhealthy and b) unhealthy because they're not has heavy as you are? Since when does being heavier mean you're healthier?

No. I implied that they are thin, tiny little people. Mostly because they are thin, tiny little people.

And THIN is of course very bad?

And she's been raw vegan/fruitarian for many years now:

I wear that exact same tube-top to the gym.

wouldn't have thought red was your colour

BTW would love this girls arms...

I weigh more than all of these people put together. Including the car.

Yup, I believe that. Coronary occlusion waiting to happen.

Yeah. If only I were healthier and in better shape.

Yeah, you will sure make a fine looking corpse. There is a difference between being steroidally muscle bound and being healthy. Why don't you post an xray of your arteries.

Because that would be creepy, and weird, even if you had a real name and an actual picture, obscure, anonymous Internet guy.

However, let's analyze your profound, articulate argument, shall we?

I eat meat, and do not understand vegetarianism, therefore I am taking steroids, and I am about to die of heart disease.

Which hurts more... The fact that I just destroyed your silly little post? Or the fact that you're not computer savvy enough to go back and delete what you said?

Next.

You do flatter yourself my friend. If you really want to understand vegetariansim, please go to any one of the probably dozens of archived debates at this site, for example

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/609217-meat-eating-vs-vegan-debate

I think that one went 20 pages, and then was continued in another 20 pager. I must have cited at least two dozen studies in that debate. If you are serious about wanting to understand vegetarianism and how to be healthy read some of the studies. In case you are not aware, studies are considerably more probative than opinions. It may be fun to argue opinions, but it is a waste of time when there is solid scientific evidence.

I'm not a big debater but I really like this essay on the ethics of meat-eating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/magazine/the-ethicist-contest-winner-give-thanks-for-meat.html?_r=1

Also, professional wrestler Daniel Bryan is a vegan and he's pretty smokin'.

I'm not a big debater but I really like this essay on the ethics of meat-eating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/magazine/the-ethicist-contest-winner-give-thanks-for-meat.html?_r=1

Also, professional wrestler Daniel Bryan is a vegan and he's pretty smokin'.

I know several vegans who entered that contest incognito. I don't know if the winner was an undercover vegan as well.

For those concerned, be assured, I'm perfectly 'calm'.

To the OP, when you ask for a debate, it's typical to lay down the terms of your argument - that's how debate happens. One person outlines an argument, the other person lays down theirs, and evidence and rational development of those arguments proceeds...

Your basic premise remains obscure. If there's something beyond 'Meat: I like it' in your original premise, I might be able to offer some counterpoint. But it's hard to actually debate on the point of what tingles someone else's tastebuds

Sadly, I agree with you completely. However, by clearly establishing an "actual debate" pursuant your aforementioned construct, this thread would have been shutdown within approximately 5 minutes.

Trust me on this.

Thus, I opened with a lighthearted "discussion point / counter-point" protocol in an effort to get people talking.

As for the education in procedure, I am quite familiar. They taught us all the good stuff in law school.

Not very effectively.

Each to there own really. I used to be a veggie, mostly for the 'cruelty to animals reason'. I was young (11) and was making a statement I suppose. Started my McDonald's embargo at the same time. I lasted about 4 years, and even now only eat chicken and fish. No reason for avoiding red meat other than the fact I don't really fancy it now!

Each to there own really. I used to be a veggie, mostly for the 'cruelty to animals reason'. I was young (11) and was making a statement I suppose. Started my McDonald's embargo at the same time. I lasted about 4 years, and even now only eat chicken and fish. No reason for avoiding red meat other than the fact I don't really fancy it now!

:drinker:

Yes, to each their own.



Well this "debate" was a funsy. :laugh:



nothing but love to all.:flowerforyou:

Chicken isn't vegan???

But for real, I love meat. I've given it up for extended periods, and I felt awful. So, I eat it and enjoy it, although I try to get a good percentage of my cals from plant sources.

OP, after reading through this thread you seem like a pretty reasonable and personable guy, just to get that out of the way. I'll also include the obligatory "I'm not one of those BAD EVIL PUSHY type vegans who wants EVERYONE TO BE JUST LIKE THEM", because it's true. I'm really not. But I'm also not going to pretend that this is just a "to each their own" kind of issue like a lot of people in the thread are, because I don't really think it is for most people who sincerely take the time to try to think about and answer it.

I think when it comes down to it and all joking aside, most people subscribe at least generally to the notion that we as individuals shouldn't be the cause of unnecessary harm in the world. We just don't like to think of the things we personally like to do as causing harm or as unnecessary.

The basic ethical argument is that just because we might /like/ to dominate fellow animals that are capable of thinking and suffering (though for the most part obviously not approaching humans' degree of rationality or self-awareness), kill them, and use their bodies to make food, clothing, cell phone cases, etc doesn't mean we /ought/ to, especially in a first world country in the 21st century where we don't /need/ to. We need to use living things for at least some of those purposes, sure, but we live in a time and place where we can choose plant or mineral based materials made from things that are demonstrably incapable of thinking or suffering in the way that animals are.

It does seem plausible to say that at some point in the past and/or in some parts of the world having meat and dairy in one's diet might be a nutritional necessity for humans because of geographical limitations, resource scarcity, limited knowledge about nutrition, etc, but I would guess that it has never been the case for a single person posting in this thread for as long as they've lived. It can be legitimately hard to internalize after a lifetime of having animal-eating reinforced by everything and everyone around you, but just because we've evolved this far as omnivores doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't individually adjust our "natural" behaviors for cultural or ethical reasons. There are many "natural" parts of our evolutionary heritage that we have found reason to broadly reject as unacceptable: genocide, rape, people as property, cannibalism, random aggression, theft, and kicking puppies, just to name a few.

And, by the way, that antibiotic-laced, ammonia-cleaned, and growth-hormone-engineered machine-shaped frozen burger patty, cut from from a test-tube-bred cow fed via conveyer belt with genetically modified corn husks, on a refined white bread bun made with hydrogenated oil and sweetened with high fructose corn syrup, sitting next to fries made from a potato that is legally regulated as a pesticide? Not exactly "natural" either.

Without the nature/necessity argument, it seems that the only remaining reasons to eat meat are (1) social convention and/or habit dictate that we should (i.e. it's more convenient for us in our specific time and place) and (2) because we enjoy the taste (though for most people it seems like just not eating meat for awhile makes the thought of doing so pretty repellant). Both of those frankly seem like pretty shaky reasons when weighed against the killing and/or suffering of literally billions of animals, shady meat and dairy industry practices, heart disease, colon and prostate cancer, etc.

Just my two cents, you know, since you asked.