Cussing at/to Children

ILuvMoo

Most of us are educated enough to choose another word to replace a curse word with. We have so many words at our disposal to use. :ohwell:

Then why cut out a whole category of words and thus narrow your nice broad vocabulary? They're just words. I don't even understand how people can find enough substance in the "they're swear words" distinction to get all that worked up about it. What's going to happen if they go so mainstream that the concept of "swear words" is lost from our culture (not that such a thing would happen... swearing wouldn't be any fun anymore!) But seriously, what's the fear?

I have an English degree. I have a broad vocabulary. I know lots of writers, many with terminal degrees. And you know? Writers swear a LOT. So this isn't an "education" or a "vocabulary" failure.

Hmmmm, I didn't think I was all that worked up about it.....:huh:

You weren't... but other people do get that way. I quoted your post because you implied that cussing was "uneducated" and I wished to dispute that. I wasn't directly addressing your post the entire time; I just used it as a starting point.

crista_b

1. You are a piece of *kitten*.
2. Your parents should have aborted you.
3. Good fecking job out there!
4. Get your head out of your *kitten*, and pay attention.

Context is important.


It's not the words that matter, it is how they are used. I don't consider any words bad, and I tell my children that there are appropriate/inappropriate times when certain phrases/words can be used.

^^^^ totally this. You can wound someone with words, whether or not there are swearwords among those words does not really change this much. for example:

a) you're a useless piece of s#!t, go and f***ing kill yourself

b) you're a useless piece of trash, go and kill yourself

Do the inclusion of the words s#!t and f***ing make the meaning so much worse?? No. If anything, the exclusion of the swearwords makes the whole thing sound that much more cold-blooded.

this kind of thing is much worse when said by an adult to a child, because generally they don't have the life experience and insight to understand that the adult saying it to them is a nasty person with their own serious issues to feel the need to do that to a child, instead they're a lot more likely to internalise every word of it and believe it to be true.

On the other hand, swearing in front of a child, or when talking to the child in an otherwise nice way, well it's not what I'd call ideal parenting, but it's not going to damage the child either. There's a lot of ground between ideal parenting and abuse, but many people think dichotomously and then things that are just sloppy parenting get labelled as abuse, and then the term abuse becomes meaningless.

Completely agree, and very well-said.

Verbal abuse is verbal abuse. Sometimes it involves cussing, sometimes it does not. Cussing does not necessarily mean verbal abuse.

Yes.

Most of us are educated enough to choose another word to replace a curse word with. We have so many words at our disposal to use. :ohwell:

Then why cut out a whole category of words and thus narrow your nice broad vocabulary? They're just words. I don't even understand how people can find enough substance in the "they're swear words" distinction to get all that worked up about it. What's going to happen if they go so mainstream that the concept of "swear words" is lost from our culture (not that such a thing would happen... swearing wouldn't be any fun anymore!) But seriously, what's the fear?

I have an English degree. I have a broad vocabulary. I know lots of writers, many with terminal degrees. And you know? Writers swear a LOT. So this isn't an "education" or a "vocabulary" failure.

I agree here. Words become "taboo" because some random people decided that they don't like how they're being used. We could walk around replacing the word f*** with a made-up nonsense word, and if enough people start doing it and someone decides they don't like it, suddenly it's a "curse word". And on the other side of it, lots of people say "What the heck?" or something similar when they could also say "What the f***?" or "What the h*ll?" They all mean the same thing so why does it matter so much to some people which you choose to use if your inflection and intention is the same?

Words are neither inherently good nor bad; they're simply words. The message behind them is what should direct the way they are received.

contingencyplan

The atmosphere it creates. It takes the formality away. Young'ns do a lot better when the formality is gone and the environment takes on a more casual feel.

Do you have stats on that? Like I said, I work in a high school. The boys talk about the teachers who cuss because they want to seem cool. The kids don't really think that teacher is cool. They think he wants to look cool. They actually have more respect for the ones who don't. But, this is just my experience where I am.

There's a difference between cussing because you want to seem cool, and just not installing a special verbal filter when you're around kids. The latter DOES create a more casual atmosphere, which does help kids feel more comfortable.

Do I need stats to show that kids tend to be uncomfortable and apprehensive in formal situations? No, that is just common sense.

wineplease

Do I need stats to show that kids tend to be uncomfortable and apprehensive in formal situations? No, that is just common sense.

I was referring to students doing better when in a class with a teacher who cusses vs. one who doesn't. A non-cussing teacher doesn't mean the classroom is stuffy and formal.

JenAndSome

I am not abusive towards my children. Heck, if anything I am too nice. With that being said I do curse in front of them. I have a foul mouth and while I tone it down for my kids, I'm not going to hide the fact that people say bad words. When you make a big deal about it they do. If they say them I don't make a big deal about it. I just tell them they are grown up words and they shouldn't say them until they are grown up and that if they do say them at school they will get into trouble.

WhitneySheree88

I cuss in front of my children,, I don't always mean to but I do it. But I would not cuss AT them, that isn't right. As far as it being verbal abuse hell no ... I grew up with a father that was constantly being arrested, growing/making drugs, stealing, cussing, hitting and cheating on my mother and he made sure to tell us kids and our mom how little he really thought of us. My kids have it better than I ever did.

Now let me catch someone cussing AT my children .... that is a whole different situation.

loopylin32

umm just asked my 18 year old his opinion .... he said , sagely ... nahhhh its not abuse , well not unless u call em a c word!

mojohowitz

Context is everything.

Screaming father- "Son, you are the greatest little *kitten* an old f***er like me could ask for. I am so f***ing proud of you and all the great SH** you have done."

Whispering father- "You're dead to me."


Kids are going to hear it. I just try to show a little class and set the example by not swearing if possible. Sometimes I f*** it up though.

BeinAwesome247

1. You are a piece of *kitten*.
2. Your parents should have aborted you.
3. Good fecking job out there!
4. Get your head out of your *kitten*, and pay attention.

Context is important.


It's not the words that matter, it is how they are used. I don't consider any words bad, and I tell my children that there are appropriate/inappropriate times when certain phrases/words can be used.

Didn't read through everything - but this was posted early on

Think it's more about context and these words have power b/c WE give them power.
Make them less of a big deal and they're less of a big deal

wineplease

Screaming father- "Son, you are the greatest little *kitten* an old f***er like me could ask for. I am so f***ing proud of you and all the great SH** you have done."Kids are going to hear it. I just try to show a little class and set the example by not swearing if possible.

While these sentences may be compliments, they certainly lack class (especially because they're used with a child).

kennethmgreen

But expecting all adults to never cuss around your kids at all simply because you don't tolerate it? That is moving toward unreasonable.

That would depend where we were. If we're on a children's playground, I would expect adults to watch their language. If we're at a professional football game, meh, that would be unreasonable.

Are you saying context and details matter? Because those are scarce resources around these parts.

wineplease

Are you saying context and details matter? Because those are scarce resources around these parts.

I'm saying my expectations would be different depending upon where we were. I don't think it's okay for parents to cuss at their children, nor do I think it's okay for teachers and coaches to do it. I believe constantly cussing at your children is verbal abuse.

Lochlyn_D

I curse at kids all the time. I like to see the look on their mother's faces when they start repeating the words.

GnomeLove

Most of us are educated enough to choose another word to replace a curse word with. We have so many words at our disposal to use. :ohwell:

LOL...I gueess I needz me sum skool smahrts then?

wineplease

I am a step mother to a 20 year old boy. I still find I get better results if i call him a jerk instead of and *kitten*.

Not sure I'd be happy with you if you were my son's stepmother.

kennethmgreen

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1993-08-25/news/9308240307_1_lively-lessons-teacher-past-lessons
A newspaper article in the Sun Sentinel, the biggest newspaper in southeastern Florida, about the history teacher I referred to. Read it and about his impact on his students. I wouldn't change a thing about the way he taught us. Swear words and all. I notice you haven't addressed my points so far, either.

Sorry I didn't address this. It's been a busy thread, and I'm at work today.

I don't care how great this teacher is/was; I wouldn't have liked him cussing that much in a classroom with my children present. Cussing has no business in a classroom, in my opinion.

I also suggest, as someone else did, that he would have been a great teacher without those cuss words.

Saying a teacher was an excellent teacher who happened to cuss a lot in class is not the same as saying a teacher was an excellent teacher because he cussed a lot in class.

Making the argument that "he would have been a great teacher without those cuss words" is a cleverly (or unintentionally) supporting your point. It makes sense to you because the cussing is important. But to someone who sees cussing as less important, it might be similar to saying "he would have been a great teacher without those mismatched socks."

He was a great teacher. That he cussed is secondary, right? Unless you are arguing him cussing keeps him from being a great teacher, you are stating the obvious.

I posit that the issues we, as parents, think cussing has on our children are directly proportional to how we feel about cussing ourselves. In other words, if we are bothered by cussing, the more power we give to the words, and the more influential cussing will be on our kids. I don't have anything to back that except poor handwriting.

Interesting read:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cutting-edge-leadership/201205/will-swearing-harm-your-child

Notable:

The psychological study of swearing is quite new.

Does hearing swear words in a movie or TV show or on the playground harm children? Surprisingly, there has been little research on this question.

wineplease

He was a great teacher. That he cussed is secondary, right? Unless you are arguing him cussing keeps him from being a great eacher, you are stating the obvious.

Yes, in my mind, he was not a great teacher because he cussed so much. Teaching in the classroom is more than just the material being covered.

I posit that the issues we, as parents, think cussing has on our children are directly proportional to how we feel about cussing ourselves.

What about the points I made regarding federal government guidelines for profanity and children? Surely this comes from some well respected study. No?

kennethmgreen

Are you saying context and details matter? Because those are scarce resources around these parts.

I'm saying my expectations would be different depending upon where we were. I don't think it's okay for parents to cuss at their children, nor do I think it's okay for teachers and coaches to do it. I believe constantly cussing at your children is verbal abuse.

Agree with first sentence.
Might disagree with second sentence, but will support you in believing it.
Third sentence is red herring/exaggeration use of "constantly."

Do you know how hard it would be to constantly cuss at your kids? Maybe at a slumber party.

But that's not the issue. If you believe statement #2, no need for statement #3.

jenilla1

You get what you give, you treat children the way you want to be treated. If you swear at another person (regardless of age or category) then you better expect them to swear back at you.

:drinker:

bearkisses

it is verbal abuse, hands down. It fits the definition 110%.