Cussing at/to Children

kennethmgreen

Measuring teacher greatness is almost exclusively opinion, because most metrics are actually measuring student performance. I work at an organization that studies this kind of stuff.

And I work at a place that measures great teachers differently. I get that.

What methods does your place use to measure teacher greatness that is independent of student performance? Interviews? Rating system? Student surveys? Professional observation?

Of those systems, how many explicitly address the existence and/or frequency of cussing in the classroom?

We're back to context and details. Using your words above, at what point does a teacher who you otherwise deem "great" suddenly become NOT great? If he hits his thumb with a hammer and exclaims "*kitten*!"? If he does that four times in a year? Which cuss words remove a teacher from greatness? And how many times would she have to say each word? Do some cuss words have more greatness-removing power than others?

Slipping up and apologizing to your students is one thing. Cussing on any regular basis in the classroom is wrong, and that goes for @ss, *kitten*, and the F bomb.

You can see how your above statement is different than your previous statement (below) was, right?

No teacher who cusses in the classroom is a great teacher, in my opinion.

I won't deny your right to believe teachers shouldn't cuss in the classroom. I'm not exactly a proponent of it. I just think there are far more important metrics to evaluate a teacher's greatness on. And honestly, I suspect that any teacher who we both might deem "great" but who also regularly cusses in the classroom, is likely an outlier.

I'm stuck still talking about all this because I find it deeply fascinating. It's easy to dismiss the greater frequency of profanity, the relaxing of standards on TV and in movies, etc. as simply the "fall of man" or "decency crumbling." But I think it's much more complicated than that. And more dynamic. I think we are much less relaxed than we were 20 years ago. And a huge shift happened in the media with Janet Jackson's boob.

I am fascinated by the power that some words hold. Why does one four-letter word have more power that another four-letter word? Why does a particular string of sounds coming from my mouth carry more weight and offending power than another particular string of sounds? All that "power" isn't real. At least it's not measurable. It's all derived from our own attachment to the words. Not the words themselves. And yes, I believe the same with racial slurs and other trigger words, though that's a different (and far more delicate) discussion.

Thanks for the patience to continue the discussion.

wineplease

What methods does your place use to measure teacher greatness that is independent of student performance? Interviews? Rating system? Student surveys? Professional observation?

A combination of all of those, but we also have a morals and values component. Our faculty is responsible for the formation of the students.

Of those systems, how many explicitly address the existence and/or frequency of cussing in the classroom?

Faculty handbook and annual reviews and ongoing faith formation of faculty.

You can see how your above statement is different than your previous statement (below) was, right?

Yes, that's why I clarified it when you asked.

Iwon't deny your right to believe teachers shouldn't cuss in the classroom. I'm not exactly a proponent of it. I just think there are far more important metrics to evaluate a teacher's greatness on. And honestly, I suspect that any teacher who we both might deem "great" but who also regularly cusses in the classroom, is likely an outlier.

I'm stuck still talking about all this because I find it deeply fascinating. It's easy to dismiss the greater frequency of profanity, the relaxing of standards on TV and in movies, etc. as simply the "fall of man" or "decency crumbling." But I think it's much more complicated than that. And more dynamic. I think we are much less relaxed than we were 20 years ago. And a huge shift happened in the media with Janet Jackson's boob.

I am fascinated by the power that some words hold. Why does one four-letter word have more power that another four-letter word? Why does a particular string of sounds coming from my mouth carry more weight and offending power than another particular string of sounds? All that "power" isn't real. At least it's not measurable. It's all derived from our own attachment to the words. Not the words themselves. And yes, I believe the same with racial slurs and other trigger words, though that's a different (and far more delicate) discussion
Thanks for the patience to continue the discussion.

Words do have power.

kimosabe1

my mom was always a *****.......

lostdogg

I think the biggest thing is the difference between cursing at the and cursing in front of them. Although I keep my sweating to a minimum in front of my kids I have done so. Swore at my children, no I wont do it.

Do I think it's abusive to swear in front of them, no. Look at the definition of abuse.

Do I think it's abusive to swear at them, that depends moreso on the tone and what's being said.

You can abuse someone verbally without cussing and you can cuss with abusing.

LouAnn71464

I really don't think cussing is verbal abuse unless it is used to hurt a child's feelings. I don't think it is appropriate language to use in childcare or is the school system.

stumblinthrulife

I think it's fantastic that we live in a country where actual abuse of children is at such low levels that we can now concern ourselves with the things we say to them.

I'm guessing plenty of kids across the world would switch places in a heart beat with an American kid whose parents cuss them out.

Not that I'm defending the practice - it's uncouth and unnecessary. But in the full spectrum of child abuse, cussing barely registers.

emaren

As the son of a RAF Squadron Leader (retired), swearing, cussing, whatever you wish to call it, was just a part of the language that I heard every single day.

I learned the difference between the Hammer, the Effing Hammer and the Effing Stupid hammer.

That is not abuse.

That is simply emphasis.

If I did something wrong I was admonished. If I did something stupid, I was told that what I had done was stupid, if what I did was really effing stupid, well, I was told that this was really effing stupid.

Again, this is not abuse, this is emphasis.

Using cusswords / swearing is not abuse, it is plain and simple emphasis.

ValerieMartini2Olives

The people that live across the street... her kids were playing outside and they got in her van. She comes out and I hear her yell "Get out of the f'in van! What the f is wrong with you? F this! F-that!" She had to have dropped the f bomb about 9 times in 20 seconds. It was disgusting and vulgar. No wonder her kids don't respect her.

karl39x

Verbal abuse? Is this a woman thing.

Contrarian

I agree with everything eyelikepie said. As a child, I encountered both verbal abuse without profanity, and kind, loving adults who used some colourful language.

Verbal abuse is rage and vitriol. Swearing is inconsequential.

rebbylicious

Well My 3 yr old must have overheard my husband and I arguing and decided to start using the F word. (2 months ago) I have done everything to get the language to stop. I sat him in a naughty chair several times, I made him lick a bar of soap, I tried ignoring it, I tried explaining to him that people are going to think he is a bad boy if he uses naughty words... nothing is helping. He uses the word quite frequently now, It is becoming a habit. I feel like a completely trashy mom but I have done everything and don't know what else to do.

CrazyTrackLady

I am a teacher in a Catholic school. It is NEVER appropriate to cuss in front of kids, AND where I work, it is also a form of cussing to say the following words (and I do not tolerate them in my class):

Crap
Sucks
Oh My God
Friggen/Frickin

NOW, I swear in the staff room and behind closed classroom doors, but I keep my voice down when I do.

My own children -- aged 17 and almost 20 -- are NOT allowed to cuss in front of my husband or me. My son dropped the F bomb the other day and he immediately apologized and dropped and gave me 20 push ups. I caught my daughter talking on the phone and using the F word and I made HER drop and give me 20 too. Yes, I know they cuss, and I know they're old enough, but I really don't like the potty mouths from children.

(When our daughter's ex boyfriend dumped her via text, she actually asked us for permission to call him a cuss word, and we allowed her - because she was being very correct in her word choice)

mojohowitz

my mom was always a *****.......

1, 2, 3, 4... phew. Ok. 5 stars there. I thought there were only four.

MelsAuntie

Kids hear it everywhere it can't be avoided thus is life
[/quote


True]

CrazyTrackLady

Most of us are educated enough to choose another word to replace a curse word with. We have so many words at our disposal to use. :ohwell:

Emphasis on *most*. With a universe of words at your disposal, why choose the most vulgar? We regularly replace swear words at our house with "Blast!" "Crikey!" or simply, "Curses!"

Yes, kids are going to learn the words eventually. But I want my daughter to get through childhood without thinking that such language is common or acceptable.

I have a couple of "cuss" words that I've made up:

FRIGDIDDLY (you can use this with so many variations, it makes it fun):

Examples:

as an adverb: "That was FRIGDIDDLY awesome!"

as a verb: "Quit Frigdiddling around and get back to work"

as a noun: "I don't give one flying FRIGDIDDLE about your problems."


SHI-DANG!
A conglomeration of "*kitten*" and a cleaned up "da*m"

"Awwwww, SHIIIIII DANG! I spilled my pop!"

slkehl

Mainly because the words are usually expressing anger in an extreme way and I think its not a good idea to do that in front of kids.

This is when I would say cussing is not okay. When my dad swore at me, he was in a full rage, and it was scary. I got the point, but I think he should have used other parenting techniques to show me that what I was doing was not okay.

vmekash

Swearing in general is no big deal, in my opinion. I've never censored my language in front of my kids. They are teen/twenties now, and they simply do not curse. I never cared whether they did or not. However, self control is important, as there are places you just should not do it. Like in front of OTHER people's children. Their parents may not appreciate it.

Most important distinction, however, is --
Cursing is fine
Cursing AT anyone is never okay. Never.

(The f-bomb drops out of my mouth quite regularly, but you will never ever hear me say F-U to anyone. Ever.
And, I will never say "I hate you" to anyone. Ever. And I will never ever call someone "stupid." Those are my personal rules about such things.)

LonLB

"Cussing" as opposed to "cursing" or "swearing" is just as horrible a word as most swear words.

stumblinthrulife

Most of us are educated enough to choose another word to replace a curse word with. We have so many words at our disposal to use. :ohwell:

Emphasis on *most*. With a universe of words at your disposal, why choose the most vulgar? We regularly replace swear words at our house with "Blast!" "Crikey!" or simply, "Curses!"

Yes, kids are going to learn the words eventually. But I want my daughter to get through childhood without thinking that such language is common or acceptable.

I have a couple of "cuss" words that I've made up:

FRIGDIDDLY (you can use this with so many variations, it makes it fun):

Examples:

as an adverb: "That was FRIGDIDDLY awesome!"

as a verb: "Quit Frigdiddling around and get back to work"

as a noun: "I don't give one flying FRIGDIDDLE about your problems."


SHI-DANG!
A conglomeration of "*kitten*" and a cleaned up "da*m"

"Awwwww, SHIIIIII DANG! I spilled my pop!"

Well howdy doodly, neighborino!

SanteMulberry

I read an article that suggest cussing at your child is a form of verbal abuse. I also work at a school that does not tolerate teachers and coaches who cuss in the classroom, on the playing fields or courts, or to our students.

What are your thoughts? Is it a form of verbal abuse? Is it ever okay? Are coaches okay to do this, but not teachers?

Yes--it is verbal abuse. I remember one incident that will stick in my mind forever. A father and son (the son was about 7 or 8) pulled into the parking lot next to where I was waiting in the car for my husband to mail a package. The son jumped out of the car on the passenger side (our car was parked on that side of their vehicle) with a letter in his hand. In the process of jumping out, the son inadvertently knocked some kind of beverage in a cup over on the seat and the "father" started cussng a blue streak at him. Our windows were open so I could hear every word. The son kept saying, "Daddy I'm sorry. I'm sorry--don't be mad." It nearly broke my heart. Every word was like a lash on the poor little boy. When my husband came out of the post office, he could see that I was upset and I told him what had happened. Of course, my heroic hubby wanted to "go and talk to the guy". He seemed genuinely disappointed when I said that they were just there to mail a letter and after the boy dropped it in the box, they took off. I often think about that little boy and wonder what became of him. They say that in the prisons, Mother's Day is a big deal--that even hardened criminals will make a point of sending their mother's cards. But there is rarely a peep about Father's Day--that few criminals have any fond memories of their fathers, if they knew them at all.