plant based diet ?
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sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.0 -
2muchfnsugar wrote: »
Well, no. It IS all about CICO. We aren't 'bashing', we are being honest. Macros and nutrition sources are important. Carbs, protein, and fats are all equally important. People need to eat a healthy, balanced diet. A person could eat over their limit of calories in just vegetables and be fat and unhealthy. A person could eat under their limit of calories in french fries and be skinny and unhealthy. Eating at a calorie deficit the right way, in moderation, and a good balance of foods, is the right way to do things, and that person will be healthier and achieve weight goals.
^^ Totally agree IF your definition of "healthy" is based solely on weight . Otherwise, healthy takes on a new meaning. It's different for everyone, and hopefully everyone on here can agree to THAT.
In the same way that everyone has differing opinions about what is "healthy", foods have varying components that support BOTH sides. You can't just say "plants are healthier than meats because they don't contain saturated fats." Ever looked at avocado nutrition facts? quite a bit more sat. fat per unit weight than lean chicken breast, so could one not argue that eating meat is much healthier than a plant based diet if you're ONLY considering that narrow minded context?
I'm neither for nor against. To each his/her own, so for me.... bring on the bacon...well OK, I'll settle for lean chicken breast, because it's healthier than SOME plants.
Then you've missed my point. It has nothing to do with just weight. As I said, you can't base a 'diet' on eating just one food, or just one food group, and say that you'll be healthy. What I said was, a person needs to have a good combination of foods to be healthy. Knocking avocados because they have fat isn't really the right track either. Fat is essential for a healthy diet, as are protein and carbohydrates. As long as a person is eating the right combination of macros and nutrients, the person is going to be healthy.
Just as well, I believe you have missed MY point. I was merely pointing out that "healthy" has a different meaning for everyone and supporting your statements as well as clarifying that if someone's going to claim that it IS all about CICO, then obviously it's in reference to weight loss, right? Additionally, I wasn't "knocking" avocados. They are awesome, and I love them. MY point was that one (not you) can't vaguely claim that vegetables are healthier because they contain no saturated fat, when some actually DO, and certain meats contain less. My bad if I appeared to be misrepresenting your point. I agree with you. Please call off your dogs
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sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.
Can you describe what you mean by "whole foods plant based"?0 -
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sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.
Oh boy, this is one of my issues too. I'm glad that works for you, but it really grinds my gears when people who advocate for eating 'whole foods' call other foods 'crappy'. C'mon now. It's true that it is one way to eat that works well for you, but there are many ways to eat that works for many people. And eating the occasional cheeseburger doesn't qualify as 'crappy'. I eat a fairly varied diet, with cookies and ice cream mixed in, in moderation, and I get great scores on my physicals too. Telling newbies who are looking for advice to eat whole plants foods only is usually unsustainable for them and will lead most people to failure. And telling them the regular food they like to eat is 'crap' instead of teaching them they need to learn to eat it in moderation just makes them feel like losers.0 -
So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
So no on the research then?
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MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research or friend me for help. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.0 -
MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research from there. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.
You didn't post any references. You posted links to some articles. What people are looking for is actual research to support the conclusions you are presenting in your posts.0 -
MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research from there. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.
As you are the one calling out others and calling names (janejellyroll), I'd think you'd be eager to prove your point with more information to back yourself up.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »
Go away. No one is interested in your zealotry.
Actually some of us *are* interested. You don't speak for anyone apart from your little playground clique so I'd suggest you review the community guidelines:
"Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting."0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »
Go away. No one is interested in your zealotry.
Actually some of us *are* interested. You don't speak for anyone apart from your little playground clique so I'd suggest you review the community guidelines:
"Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting."
This post would be so much more impactful if you held the insults. Or do you consider that polite?0 -
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I had heart disease and now no longer do, eating meat, fruits, sugary goodness and some veggies (not big veggie person). I wonder how that happen.jocelynkyork wrote: »Here you go! http://engine2diet.com/
Rip Esselstyn is a firefighter and champion triathlete who has great advice for adopting a "plant-strong" diet and getting optimum health.
Here is a video explaining his reasoning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAkEYcmCCCk
Here is his father, Caldwell Esselstyn's webpage. Dr. Esselstyn is a renowned heart physician who advocates for a plant-based diet to fight disease, particularly heart disease: http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/
Also check out Rich Roll if you're into running: http://www.richroll.com/
He also has a great podcast.
Hope that helps! Healthy plant-based is by far the superior choice. Feel free to friend me and follow my diary for recipes.
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sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.
And what exactly are crappie foods?
?? 0 -
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research or friend me for help. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.
So no research then? Only reference articles that mean nothing? got it.
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Hornsby, knock yourself out on http://nutritionfacts.org because there is a lot of science and evidence there with videos to make it easy for you presented by a Dr.
MrM27,
I'm fully aware that you have made friends here who support you. I also realize that anyone new here, like me, seeking or recommending the plant based lifestyle is chewed up and spit out like high school all over again. The problem I have with you and a few others is that you are going in a form topic for "plant based" and using these tactics. I can tell the difference between those that actually want to learn something about it and those that are just waiting to pounce...I think it's rude to be discouraging those that are on a healthier path.
So since you have done this before..I'm sure you are familiar with all of the documentaries and not just Forks Over Knives. You also researched Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McGregor, and Dr. McDougall and read the China Study? Do you know these Dr's actually help save lives on the plant based lifestyle and for anyone to mock them shows how disrepectful they are. You can argue all you want about CICO for weight gain or loss and that's fine because I agree it's for "weight", but when we are talking about health and nutrition, it does matter where the (food) calories come from. I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. Why is that so hard to digest?
I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to the low carb, atkins, paleo, diet pills, supplements, fitness programs, juicing, vegan and plant based. I do my research but I also try these diets out myself before making stipulations like others.0 -
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Time and time again forks over knives and the china study are referenced as proof( which is pretty telling in and of itself )when all they are is directed propaganda. Thanks God for transparency, science and critical thinking even when cool-aid is overwhelmingly sweet.Hornsby, knock yourself out on http://nutritionfacts.org because there is a lot of science and evidence there with videos to make it easy for you presented by a Dr.
MrM27,
I'm fully aware that you have made friends here who support you. I also realize that anyone new here, like me, seeking or recommending the plant based lifestyle is chewed up and spit out like high school all over again. The problem I have with you and a few others is that you are going in a form topic for "plant based" and using these tactics. I can tell the difference between those that actually want to learn something about it and those that are just waiting to pounce...I think it's rude to be discouraging those that are on a healthier path.
So since you have done this before..I'm sure you are familiar with all of the documentaries and not just Forks Over Knives. You also researched Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McGregor, and Dr. McDougall and read the China Study? Do you know these Dr's actually help save lives on the plant based lifestyle and for anyone to mock them shows how disrepectful they are. You can argue all you want about CICO for weight gain or loss and that's fine because I agree it's for "weight", but when we are talking about health and nutrition, it does matter where the (food) calories come from. I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. Why is that so hard to digest?
I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to the low carb, atkins, paleo, diet pills, supplements, fitness programs, juicing, vegan and plant based. I do my research but I also try these diets out myself before making stipulations like others.
Please don't bore me when your running around. You really think I personally need any one of the people in this thread to support me in order to debate you? Please. You won't be surprised to know that maybe half the people in this thread alone probably hate me more than they dislike you. Truth is, I don't need anyone to like me to understand science.
Yes I have heard of your sources and yes I have heard of the China Study. I also know that the China Study has been picked apart so please come back with a better rebuttal.
You can cry bullies and mean tactics to deflect from the fact that you don't have solid information to provide. That's fine. You think it bothers me that you think I'm rude? I'm not here to encourage everyone and wish them well. I'm here to debate facts because I find it fun. By being that way you make a lot of people dislike you, you can just be another member added to the list. In the end the facts still remain, you can't substantiate your claims.
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Hornsby, knock yourself out on http://nutritionfacts.org because there is a lot of science and evidence there with videos to make it easy for you presented by a Dr.
MrM27,
I'm fully aware that you have made friends here who support you. I also realize that anyone new here, like me, seeking or recommending the plant based lifestyle is chewed up and spit out like high school all over again. The problem I have with you and a few others is that you are going in a form topic for "plant based" and using these tactics. I can tell the difference between those that actually want to learn something about it and those that are just waiting to pounce...I think it's rude to be discouraging those that are on a healthier path.
So since you have done this before..I'm sure you are familiar with all of the documentaries and not just Forks Over Knives. You also researched Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McGregor, and Dr. McDougall and read the China Study? Do you know these Dr's actually help save lives on the plant based lifestyle and for anyone to mock them shows how disrepectful they are. You can argue all you want about CICO for weight gain or loss and that's fine because I agree it's for "weight", but when we are talking about health and nutrition, it does matter where the (food) calories come from. I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. Why is that so hard to digest?
I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to the low carb, atkins, paleo, diet pills, supplements, fitness programs, juicing, vegan and plant based. I do my research but I also try these diets out myself before making stipulations like others.
Please don't bore me when your running around. You really think I personally need any one of the people in this thread to support me in order to debate you? Please. You won't be surprised to know that maybe half the people in this thread alone probably hate me more than they dislike you. Truth is, I don't need anyone to like me to understand science.
Yes I have heard of your sources and yes I have heard of the China Study. I also know that the China Study has been picked apart so please come back with a better rebuttal.
You can cry bullies and mean tactics to deflect from the fact that you don't have solid information to provide. That's fine. You think it bothers me that you think I'm rude? I'm not here to encourage everyone and wish them well. I'm here to debate facts because I find it fun. By being that way you make a lot of people dislike you, you can just be another member added to the list. In the end the facts still remain, you can't substantiate your claims.
Yes, this did give me a chuckle, as MrM27 and I have oft been on the opposite side of some heated arguments. When we disagree, we disagree, but in this case, we agree. Let me address one particular quote: I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. If you paid any attention to what anyone is saying (except yourself) you'd notice several of us advocating a diet of moderation including meat and dairy. Not MOSTLY. You could eat a diet of just avocados and nuts and you'd probably find yourself to be unhealthy because those foods are high in fat. Again, moderation in all things. A good, healthy mix of the plants, the meat, the dairy, etc, etc, etc. Seriously.0 -
Hornsby, knock yourself out on http://nutritionfacts.org because there is a lot of science and evidence there with videos to make it easy for you presented by a Dr.
MrM27,
I'm fully aware that you have made friends here who support you. I also realize that anyone new here, like me, seeking or recommending the plant based lifestyle is chewed up and spit out like high school all over again. The problem I have with you and a few others is that you are going in a form topic for "plant based" and using these tactics. I can tell the difference between those that actually want to learn something about it and those that are just waiting to pounce...I think it's rude to be discouraging those that are on a healthier path.
So since you have done this before..I'm sure you are familiar with all of the documentaries and not just Forks Over Knives. You also researched Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. McGregor, and Dr. McDougall and read the China Study? Do you know these Dr's actually help save lives on the plant based lifestyle and for anyone to mock them shows how disrepectful they are. You can argue all you want about CICO for weight gain or loss and that's fine because I agree it's for "weight", but when we are talking about health and nutrition, it does matter where the (food) calories come from. I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. Why is that so hard to digest?
I'm new to the forum, but I'm not new to the low carb, atkins, paleo, diet pills, supplements, fitness programs, juicing, vegan and plant based. I do my research but I also try these diets out myself before making stipulations like others.
Please don't bore me when your running around. You really think I personally need any one of the people in this thread to support me in order to debate you? Please. You won't be surprised to know that maybe half the people in this thread alone probably hate me more than they dislike you. Truth is, I don't need anyone to like me to understand science.
Yes I have heard of your sources and yes I have heard of the China Study. I also know that the China Study has been picked apart so please come back with a better rebuttal.
You can cry bullies and mean tactics to deflect from the fact that you don't have solid information to provide. That's fine. You think it bothers me that you think I'm rude? I'm not here to encourage everyone and wish them well. I'm here to debate facts because I find it fun. By being that way you make a lot of people dislike you, you can just be another member added to the list. In the end the facts still remain, you can't substantiate your claims.
Yes, this did give me a chuckle, as MrM27 and I have oft been on the opposite side of some heated arguments. When we disagree, we disagree, but in this case, we agree. Let me address one particular quote: I have family members with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease who have been prescribed this lifestyle by their own Dr. and one is having a pig valve put in and these diseases are related to a diet of mostly meat and dairy. By lowering your intake of meat, dairy and processed foods AND increasing plant based foods you will increase your overall health. If you paid any attention to what anyone is saying (except yourself) you'd notice several of us advocating a diet of moderation including meat and dairy. Not MOSTLY. You could eat a diet of just avocados and nuts and you'd probably find yourself to be unhealthy because those foods are high in fat. Again, moderation in all things. A good, healthy mix of the plants, the meat, the dairy, etc, etc, etc. Seriously.
Logic....it's what's for dinner.0 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »BananasananaB wrote: »I've been slowly making the switch to a plant based diet over the last 6 months. I went full board about a month ago and haven't looked back. Currently, I have no issues getting 100 grams of protein a day without even trying, which is plenty. I feel a million times better and am easily losing weight while eating a ton of food. Win, win!
What are some of your favorite foods for protein?
Black beans, a can of corn, organic multi-grain bread, pasta, chick peas, leafy greens, Morning Star black bean patties, rice.
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rice and almost any bean variety gives a complete protein.0
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I've been vegetarian for 4 years but the past few months most of my meals are vegan and recently I've been eating a lot of raw vegan. It happened gradually.I make sure I have the right nutrition and I'm the healthiest I've been in my life. Processed food tends to upset my stomach and I don't enjoy it as much anymore. On rare occasion I'll have something that contains dairy or eggs, but the thought of them starts to make me feel sick0
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BananasananaB wrote: »
Black beans, a can of corn, organic multi-grain bread, pasta, chick peas, leafy greens, Morning Star black bean patties, rice.
May I ask what your calorie goal is? 100 grams of protein on those foods without trying is impressive. Since restricting, I have had to focus on protein because my favorite sources are calorie dense (like yours).
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It really comes down to how your eating makes you feel. If you feel better "plant based" then great, its working for you, but if you feel better with a meat and veges etc. approach then thats what I would use. Some people eat for health, some people eat for taste, I personaly want to enjoy what I eat.
I eat mainly fruits and vegetables. I also eat nuts, seeds and eggs. I eat a little meat each night with my last meal for the day. I wont bash meat, we raise cattle and chickens and turkeys for our own meat as well as raise laying hens for our own eggs. I do not consume much dairy, save for a little cheese, I know all too well what goes on in dairy farms (Ive worked in them in the milking parlors and feeding) so I avoid it except for the locally made organic cheese I purchase. I limit my meat to what we raise here, we do not use medications and our animals are grass fed so I know whats in them.
I think a plant based diet can be healthy if done right, but I also know a vegetarian who is very very overweight, so it isnt for her. I think it depends on you and your personal choices, you can make it as healthy or unhealthy as you want, with or without meat.0 -
It is too bad that this discussion became so contentious. There are many things we really do not fully understand about health. Studies are difficult because people do not exist in a vacuum; we are not perfect, we do eat things we are not "supposed" to eat and measuring the health of a race of people based on their indigenous diets is not practical; there are too many variables. I think it is certainly safe to say that heavily processed foods (white flour, white sugar, chemical additives, artificial flavors and colors) are bad for our bodies and our planet. This is a very interesting topic and I think had people not been so rude to each other it could have been an interesting and intelligent discussion. I personally eat a pretty "healthy" varied diet but I choose not to eat much "mammal" meat (mostly for ethical reasons), or dairy (feel better when I am not eating it), or processed foods (makes me feel crappy and sets up craving/bingeing cycles). I do eat a lot of vegetables; they taste great, are wonderful for our bodies, make me feel really good (clear-headed and even), a few pasture raised eggs a week, some grains, seeds, nuts, and fruit. That said, I love good wine, crusty sourdough bread, good cheese, and some desserts. I would like to be the kind of person (and still hope to get there) who can eat these things occasionally and in moderation. Unfortunately, I find that the more I eat of these processed foods the more I crave them. I personally feel better when I eat a fairly simple diet of large quantities of vegetables, fruit, some whole grain, a little meat, a little egg, some beans and legumes. I am hoping to find the path that is right for me and my body but I have yet to be able to overcome the emotional issues that I have with food in order to eat only when I am hungry in the perfect/healthy proportions needed for my body. And, I don't necessarily think this is the way I want to live, Food is to be enjoyed, and celebrated, and if we make conscious choices with our personal goals and ethics taken into consideration we are headed in the right direction.0
This discussion has been closed.
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