plant based diet ?
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2muchfnsugar wrote: »
Well, no. It IS all about CICO. We aren't 'bashing', we are being honest. Macros and nutrition sources are important. Carbs, protein, and fats are all equally important. People need to eat a healthy, balanced diet. A person could eat over their limit of calories in just vegetables and be fat and unhealthy. A person could eat under their limit of calories in french fries and be skinny and unhealthy. Eating at a calorie deficit the right way, in moderation, and a good balance of foods, is the right way to do things, and that person will be healthier and achieve weight goals.
^^ Totally agree IF your definition of "healthy" is based solely on weight . Otherwise, healthy takes on a new meaning. It's different for everyone, and hopefully everyone on here can agree to THAT.
In the same way that everyone has differing opinions about what is "healthy", foods have varying components that support BOTH sides. You can't just say "plants are healthier than meats because they don't contain saturated fats." Ever looked at avocado nutrition facts? quite a bit more sat. fat per unit weight than lean chicken breast, so could one not argue that eating meat is much healthier than a plant based diet if you're ONLY considering that narrow minded context?
I'm neither for nor against. To each his/her own, so for me.... bring on the bacon...well OK, I'll settle for lean chicken breast, because it's healthier than SOME plants.
Then you've missed my point. It has nothing to do with just weight. As I said, you can't base a 'diet' on eating just one food, or just one food group, and say that you'll be healthy. What I said was, a person needs to have a good combination of foods to be healthy. Knocking avocados because they have fat isn't really the right track either. Fat is essential for a healthy diet, as are protein and carbohydrates. As long as a person is eating the right combination of macros and nutrients, the person is going to be healthy.0 -
I didn't come in making the claims. You did. The burden of proof is on you.janejellyroll..stop misquoting me! I know what you are trying to do and I can tell by your 1,200 posts you have much more time then I do trolling these forums. Of course with a calorie deficit you will lose weight. Duh! I'm pointing out that anyone concerned about getting healthier too..it's NOT all about CICO and you should be more knowledgeable and know that eating more meat vs plants is NOT healthier. That is a scientific fat, NOT opinion! There are plenty of others here that know that...I was one of them for half my life. Have you ever been plant based?????
MrM27...How about showing me some scientific research where it states meat and dairy are healthier then plants...cough it up with some evidence....you obviously have the time....Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the research he claims exists is the "Forks over knives" stuff. It sound word for word. And if that is the case then the defense of his stance would be to watch it. But we know there isn't any other information to back it up.
Well, there is data to suggest that it is healthier. There are many studies and statistics showing the healthiest populations are those that follow either a vegetarian or Mediterranean style diet, both of which are plant based.
But, population data does not always translate to individual results.
I would like to see that data as well.janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the research he claims exists is the "Forks over knives" stuff. It sound word for word. And if that is the case then the defense of his stance would be to watch it. But we know there isn't any other information to back it up.
Well, there is data to suggest that it is healthier. There are many studies and statistics showing the healthiest populations are those that follow either a vegetarian or Mediterranean style diet, both of which are plant based.
But, population data does not always translate to individual results.
Neither the vegetarian or Mediterranean diet eliminate animal products, however. That's a serious blow to the argument that one can't obtain optimal health without eliminating animal products from the diet.
Most "plant-based" people aren't just saying "eat more plants," they're saying that eating animal products is going to harm you. And the evidence we have from studies of the healthiest populations doesn't show that.
I looked at the Mediterranean diet last year pretty heavily and I would in no way categorize it as a plant based diet.
Why not? The base is vegetables and legumes, fruit and whole grains.
Because I wouldn't.
LOL Fair enough. I was just curious. Keep your little secrets.
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There ya go!
janejellyroll: Please stop trolling the forums with topics about vegan and plant based to discourage others with your biased opinions.
It's not a good idea to take advice about the plant based lifestyle from janejellyroll who says, and I quote "I think that the term plant-based is pretty dumb".
The term Plant Based is NOT about stereotyping Vegans as unhealthy...but guess what! Most of those stereotypes come from meat eaters who tell me...I know some Vegans and they are all fat! The truth is, Vegans DO have to manage their diet exactly the same way as eating meat, hence, that is why most of you are using myfitnesspal.
What's silly to me with all this is that I have much more experience with diet and fitness as a meat eater for over 30 years of my life before becoming Vegan..and then Plant Based. So I can see how someone with no experience or is willing to "change" to plant based can be biased or take it personal.0 -
janejellyroll..stop misquoting me! I know what you are trying to do and I can tell by your 1,200 posts you have much more time then I do trolling these forums. Of course with a calorie deficit you will lose weight. Duh! I'm pointing out that anyone concerned about getting healthier too..it's NOT all about CICO and you should be more knowledgeable and know that eating more meat vs plants is NOT healthier. That is a scientific fat, NOT opinion! There are plenty of others here that know that...I was one of them for half my life. Have you ever been plant based?????
MrM27...How about showing me some scientific research where it states meat and dairy are healthier then plants...cough it up with some evidence....you obviously have the time....
I've been vegan for nine years, but I've never been "plant based," no. But from reading, discussions, and watching documentaries, I'm familiar with the lifestyle and the claims that are made in favor of it.
And yes, I have made more posts than you. What of it? It doesn't really contribute anything to deciding whether my statements are correct.
As far as to what I am trying to do: I'm trying to prevent veganism from being associated with sloppy science, exaggerations, and false claims.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the research he claims exists is the "Forks over knives" stuff. It sound word for word. And if that is the case then the defense of his stance would be to watch it. But we know there isn't any other information to back it up.
Well, there is data to suggest that it is healthier. There are many studies and statistics showing the healthiest populations are those that follow either a vegetarian or Mediterranean style diet, both of which are plant based.
But, population data does not always translate to individual results.
Neither the vegetarian or Mediterranean diet eliminate animal products, however. That's a serious blow to the argument that one can't obtain optimal health without eliminating animal products from the diet.
Most "plant-based" people aren't just saying "eat more plants," they're saying that eating animal products is going to harm you. And the evidence we have from studies of the healthiest populations doesn't show that.
Oh, well why don't they just say vegan then? I'm not sure if "most people" really do that, but I do agree that evidence would not back that up.
I think that's the biggest problem with this thread in general. No one has defined what the hell they're talking about. Not the OP two months ago nor the plant fans today.0 -
There ya go!
janejellyroll: Please stop trolling the forums with topics about vegan and plant based to discourage others with your biased opinions.
It's not a good idea to take advice about the plant based lifestyle from janejellyroll who says, and I quote "I think that the term plant-based is pretty dumb".
The term Plant Based is NOT about stereotyping Vegans as unhealthy...but guess what! Most of those stereotypes come from meat eaters who tell me...I know some Vegans and they are all fat! The truth is, Vegans DO have to manage their diet exactly the same way as eating meat, hence, that is why most of you are using myfitnesspal.
What's silly to me with all this is that I have much more experience with diet and fitness as a meat eater for over 30 years of my life before becoming Vegan..and then Plant Based. So I can see how someone with no experience or is willing to "change" to plant based can be biased or take it personal.
Jane is one of the most knowledgeable posters on these boards.
You don't know what you're talking about and make it more and more obvious with every post.
I don't see how you presume that no one else here has experience, either.
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There ya go!
janejellyroll: Please stop trolling the forums with topics about vegan and plant based to discourage others with your biased opinions.
It's not a good idea to take advice about the plant based lifestyle from janejellyroll who says, and I quote "I think that the term plant-based is pretty dumb".
The term Plant Based is NOT about stereotyping Vegans as unhealthy...but guess what! Most of those stereotypes come from meat eaters who tell me...I know some Vegans and they are all fat! The truth is, Vegans DO have to manage their diet exactly the same way as eating meat, hence, that is why most of you are using myfitnesspal.
What's silly to me with all this is that I have much more experience with diet and fitness as a meat eater for over 30 years of my life before becoming Vegan..and then Plant Based. So I can see how someone with no experience or is willing to "change" to plant based can be biased or take it personal.
Can you understand the difference between thinking a term is dumb and thinking a concept itself is dumb?
Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. It's just disagreement.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the research he claims exists is the "Forks over knives" stuff. It sound word for word. And if that is the case then the defense of his stance would be to watch it. But we know there isn't any other information to back it up.
Well, there is data to suggest that it is healthier. There are many studies and statistics showing the healthiest populations are those that follow either a vegetarian or Mediterranean style diet, both of which are plant based.
But, population data does not always translate to individual results.
Neither the vegetarian or Mediterranean diet eliminate animal products, however. That's a serious blow to the argument that one can't obtain optimal health without eliminating animal products from the diet.
Most "plant-based" people aren't just saying "eat more plants," they're saying that eating animal products is going to harm you. And the evidence we have from studies of the healthiest populations doesn't show that.
Oh, well why don't they just say vegan then? I'm not sure if "most people" really do that, but I do agree that evidence would not back that up.
I think that's the biggest problem with this thread in general. No one has defined what the hell they're talking about. Not the OP two months ago nor the plant fans today.
I agree. We have a vegan who is not plant based. And I am not vegan or vegetarian but do consider myself plant based. MFP needs a glossary so we can all be on the same page.0 -
sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.0 -
2muchfnsugar wrote: »
Well, no. It IS all about CICO. We aren't 'bashing', we are being honest. Macros and nutrition sources are important. Carbs, protein, and fats are all equally important. People need to eat a healthy, balanced diet. A person could eat over their limit of calories in just vegetables and be fat and unhealthy. A person could eat under their limit of calories in french fries and be skinny and unhealthy. Eating at a calorie deficit the right way, in moderation, and a good balance of foods, is the right way to do things, and that person will be healthier and achieve weight goals.
^^ Totally agree IF your definition of "healthy" is based solely on weight . Otherwise, healthy takes on a new meaning. It's different for everyone, and hopefully everyone on here can agree to THAT.
In the same way that everyone has differing opinions about what is "healthy", foods have varying components that support BOTH sides. You can't just say "plants are healthier than meats because they don't contain saturated fats." Ever looked at avocado nutrition facts? quite a bit more sat. fat per unit weight than lean chicken breast, so could one not argue that eating meat is much healthier than a plant based diet if you're ONLY considering that narrow minded context?
I'm neither for nor against. To each his/her own, so for me.... bring on the bacon...well OK, I'll settle for lean chicken breast, because it's healthier than SOME plants.
Then you've missed my point. It has nothing to do with just weight. As I said, you can't base a 'diet' on eating just one food, or just one food group, and say that you'll be healthy. What I said was, a person needs to have a good combination of foods to be healthy. Knocking avocados because they have fat isn't really the right track either. Fat is essential for a healthy diet, as are protein and carbohydrates. As long as a person is eating the right combination of macros and nutrients, the person is going to be healthy.
Just as well, I believe you have missed MY point. I was merely pointing out that "healthy" has a different meaning for everyone and supporting your statements as well as clarifying that if someone's going to claim that it IS all about CICO, then obviously it's in reference to weight loss, right? Additionally, I wasn't "knocking" avocados. They are awesome, and I love them. MY point was that one (not you) can't vaguely claim that vegetables are healthier because they contain no saturated fat, when some actually DO, and certain meats contain less. My bad if I appeared to be misrepresenting your point. I agree with you. Please call off your dogs
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sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.
Can you describe what you mean by "whole foods plant based"?0 -
sure, good way of eating, lots of opportunity to avoid crappy foods, if you mean whole foods plant based. There are plenty of books/websites/facebook pages where you can review scientific information yourself.
Anecdotally, I'm wfpb and an ultra marathoner. I get straight A's on my physical every years, as well. It's done wonders for my recovery from hard workouts and races, and I never get sick.
Oh boy, this is one of my issues too. I'm glad that works for you, but it really grinds my gears when people who advocate for eating 'whole foods' call other foods 'crappy'. C'mon now. It's true that it is one way to eat that works well for you, but there are many ways to eat that works for many people. And eating the occasional cheeseburger doesn't qualify as 'crappy'. I eat a fairly varied diet, with cookies and ice cream mixed in, in moderation, and I get great scores on my physicals too. Telling newbies who are looking for advice to eat whole plants foods only is usually unsustainable for them and will lead most people to failure. And telling them the regular food they like to eat is 'crap' instead of teaching them they need to learn to eat it in moderation just makes them feel like losers.0 -
So much lol in this thread.
To Rawroy, could you please post some of your "research" that makes you think plant based is healthier than a balanced diet? It has been asked in a couple threads, but you never provide anything. The links you have already posted in this thread (and in the other vegan thread) are not research. They are articles.
I would love to read some actual research since it seems to be so prevalent in your eyes.
Thanks!
So no on the research then?
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MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research or friend me for help. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.0 -
MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research from there. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.
You didn't post any references. You posted links to some articles. What people are looking for is actual research to support the conclusions you are presenting in your posts.0 -
MrM27, I'll make a note because after reading my comment about experience..I was only referring to me having more experience as a meat eater opposed to my plant based experience..I didn't mean I had more experience then anyone else but I think most of us have plenty of experience on the low carb and fad diets. Keep that in mind that when you promote your diet, most of us have been there done that but you haven't been on plant based...
Hornsby, you saw some of the references I posted...anyone serious would do more research from there. If I thought you were really interested, then I would help out but I see it as your issue not mine.
As you are the one calling out others and calling names (janejellyroll), I'd think you'd be eager to prove your point with more information to back yourself up.0
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