Muscle Gain on a Calorie Deficit?
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@lisag0109 : Well if I may, I'd like to add that you look GREAT for your age!! Hopefully I can get in shape and stay that way (with dedication and persistent hard work of course) throughout my life (though wouldn't it be great it if were just a matter of getting there and then "hooray, you've won!")?? And I agree, there has been a wealth of information, which is much appreciated, and I'm glad I can share it both now, and in the future when I've done the "tried and true" and have before and after photos and advice to share with people!!
I guess what I'm still a bit unsure about/would like clarification on, is the following:
-So long as I'm not hurting, I'll work out every day of the week. 3 days of Stronglifts, then bicycling 3 days, with a relaxing yoga day on Sundays. Is this okay? I mean, I'll dial back the intensity on my cardio days if that will help me bulk, but I'm just one of those strange people who enjoy working out every day. Plus, if I *don't*, I'll fall off the wagon... I just find being active easier than not.
@heyitshorse : You mentioned this in your post, but I was a bit confused on the wording... Currently, with my new macro set up, I'm at a 210 calorie daily deficit. So, assuming I work out everyday (if that's truly relevant) what should my remaining calories be at the end of the day? I typically burn between 200 - 400ish calories on average, and I've heard that you shouldn't eat back your calories, but is it different for bulking? I feel like I should keep it under 400 remaining calories, as MFP tends to yell at me if I have much more than that leftover (though I'm not sure if it matters how much you burn vs. your normal deficit before workout)
-Just out of curiousity, how much should I expect to gain (my scale measures weight, BMI, and body fat, so I'm curious what kind of trends to expect on the scale) I understand that it will probably fluctuate wildly from one person to the next, but I want to know that "gaining some weight/fat" means 5lbs? or like, 20... xD0 -
NekoneMeowM..., here's my initial reaction to your latest:
If you do Stronglifts correctly, you should (at least in the beginning) feel some sense of exhaustion on your muscles. It becomes apparent as "DOMS" (delayed onset muscle soreness) over the 24-48 hours subsequent to lifting. This may or may not affect your bike riding, but in my very humble opinion, either your weightlifting/DOMS will dictate how much you want to ride the next day, or you may soon burn out if you go all out lifting on Days 1, 3, and 5 and go all-out biking on days 2, 4, and 6. Muscles NEED REST when you're lifting progressively heavy loads. Matter of fact, that's when your muscles do all the growing. They grow when they repair/recover, NOT when you're lifting. Lifting only prompts the repair/recovery activity.
If you don't feel like you need a rest, and can bike just fine and dandy the next day...I have a feeling you might not be lifting as heavy as you should. Hence, one of your goals (building muscle to eventually have a more defined body) might not be met.
So...pay very close attention to your body and the cues it's going to be giving you. If you have no soreness, lift heavier. If you have soreness, bike lighter. Really hone in on your intuition and grow that mind-body connection. Listen to what your body is telling you, which may be "hey, I'm feeling no soreness, lift heavier, girlfriend."
Second, you are continuing to eat in a deficit. Again, this will not really help you build muscle. Yes, you will see increases in strength, but strength does not always equate to building muscle. You can grow a nominal amount of strength while in a deficit, but not always (or at least you'll plateau) in growing muscles. If you eat in a deficit, you are risking, again, not meeting your goal of building muscle to create a more defined body.
So yes at a minimum, you should eat back your exercise calories, ESPECIALLY if you are lifting and still eating at a deficit. However, do note that weightlifting itself--the actual activity--doesn't really burn a heck of alot of calories. For some, yes--like for a guy who pumps a full-body routine for 90 minutes, OK, I'll give ya that. But for me, say, a 30-minute session lifting heavy, I really only mentally add about 50 calories to my day (but I still eat at a surplus anyway while I'm "bulking."). And, if you haven't seen some daily post on "where is the calories in the weightlifting section in the Exercise reporting section?" you can find "weightlifting" under the Cardio section. Again, though, it's not going to be much. BTW, the Weightlifting section in your Exercise reporting tab is just for you to track your weights, not report calories burned.
Eat at least at maintenance levels, again, if not more. DO NOT WORRY about gaining. Whatever you gain will be part muscle and part fat, and when you truly start on a deficit with increased biking (THAT'S when you want to bike those three days/week BUT lift at maintenance levels, not progressive overloads), you'll really start to burn off the fat and see the re-comp of the body you've worked so hard at through lifting.
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One of the best responses I've read on hereCarlydogsMom wrote: »First of all, you are at 131 and want to get to around 125, and you've set your MFP weight loss goal to 1 pound a week, AND you want to build muscle and lose weight at the same time? I think you have several goals that have virtually opposite ways of getting there all mashed into the same time frame.
Personally (and there are many others who probably know more than I do) I think you're on some diametrically opposed paths. First, I think setting your weight loss to 1 lb per week is really high given that you essentially are on the last 5-6 pounds you want to lose.
Second, if you want to gain muscle mass, while some initial weight training would be beneficial in increasing strength while on a deficit, you're not going to make much progress on the weight-lifting and muscle-volume gaining while 1) in a deficit; and 2) in such an extreme deficit given you're on your last 5-6 pounds.
Third, with your 1-lb loss per week at your weight, and given the workout load you're putting yourself in, both in cardio and weights, I can't imagine that you're not going to burn out at some point.
So....I highly recommend the following:
1. Give up on your weight loss goal FOR A SHORT WHILE. Try setting your weight goals to maintenance, or even gaining a half-pound per week.
2. Focus on lifting progressively heavier weights, continuing to use your Stronglifts program.
3. You will begin building muscle and adding fat at a very slow rate. Yes, it's scary, but essentially you'd be getting into a short "bulk" and then later "cut" cycle. The slight excess in calories will allow your muscles to grow. A small bit of fat will also be added, but you already know how to lose fat. Do not freak out, do not worry. It's ok, I promise. Enjoy the bulk phase of eating. Yum.
4. Focus on getting the right amount of protein (at least 0.8 to 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean body mass) and fill out the rest in carbs/fat.
5. Let Stronglifts do its work. Progress on weights. Keep cardio to whatever you feel you WANT to do...but you won't NEED to do much, if any at all. Don't do it if it's not what you really truly feel like doing. Give yourself a freaking break and focus on those weights.
6. Try this for a couple months. Watch your strength build, keep track of your weight. You will gain slightly, but the strength and slight growth in muscle will be highly noticeable, and rather addicting.
7. After at a minimum of a couple months doing this, start your cut. Set your goals to lose about a 1/2-lb a week, keep on strength training, then add a bit more cardio. This will generate more in fat loss and maintenance of muscle. You won't be gaining alot of muscle mass if you're on a cut, but you should be able to at least maintain your strength at the last, or slightly lower, weights you lifted at during your bulk.
8. End of summer, you'll have lost the little bit of fat you gained during your bulk; you'll have built stronger muscles, and you'll look more lean...and I promise you won't give a crap if you're 131 or 125. I can virtually guarantee you'll look better regardless of the number on the scale.
To continue on as you're doing--trying to lose weight fast (1 pound / week when you only want to lose 5 pounds???), but build muscle at the same time, and while doing a ton of cardio (which works to lose both fat and muscle; contradictory to your goal of building muscle) is an exercise in futility, and you'll end up just being frustrated. Work on one goal at a time and be patient. Good things come to those who wait, AND who lift heavy.
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CarlydogsMom wrote: »NekoneMeowM..., here's my initial reaction to your latest:
If you do Stronglifts correctly, you should (at least in the beginning) feel some sense of exhaustion on your muscles. It becomes apparent as "DOMS" (delayed onset muscle soreness) over the 24-48 hours subsequent to lifting. This may or may not affect your bike riding, but in my very humble opinion, either your weightlifting/DOMS will dictate how much you want to ride the next day, or you may soon burn out if you go all out lifting on Days 1, 3, and 5 and go all-out biking on days 2, 4, and 6. Muscles NEED REST when you're lifting progressively heavy loads. Matter of fact, that's when your muscles do all the growing. They grow when they repair/recover, NOT when you're lifting. Lifting only prompts the repair/recovery activity.
If you don't feel like you need a rest, and can bike just fine and dandy the next day...I have a feeling you might not be lifting as heavy as you should. Hence, one of your goals (building muscle to eventually have a more defined body) might not be met.
So...pay very close attention to your body and the cues it's going to be giving you. If you have no soreness, lift heavier. If you have soreness, bike lighter. Really hone in on your intuition and grow that mind-body connection. Listen to what your body is telling you, which may be "hey, I'm feeling no soreness, lift heavier, girlfriend."
Second, you are continuing to eat in a deficit. Again, this will not really help you build muscle. Yes, you will see increases in strength, but strength does not always equate to building muscle. You can grow a nominal amount of strength while in a deficit, but not always (or at least you'll plateau) in growing muscles. If you eat in a deficit, you are risking, again, not meeting your goal of building muscle to create a more defined body.
So yes at a minimum, you should eat back your exercise calories, ESPECIALLY if you are lifting and still eating at a deficit. However, do note that weightlifting itself--the actual activity--doesn't really burn a heck of alot of calories. For some, yes--like for a guy who pumps a full-body routine for 90 minutes, OK, I'll give ya that. But for me, say, a 30-minute session lifting heavy, I really only mentally add about 50 calories to my day (but I still eat at a surplus anyway while I'm "bulking."). And, if you haven't seen some daily post on "where is the calories in the weightlifting section in the Exercise reporting section?" you can find "weightlifting" under the Cardio section. Again, though, it's not going to be much. BTW, the Weightlifting section in your Exercise reporting tab is just for you to track your weights, not report calories burned.
Eat at least at maintenance levels, again, if not more. DO NOT WORRY about gaining. Whatever you gain will be part muscle and part fat, and when you truly start on a deficit with increased biking (THAT'S when you want to bike those three days/week BUT lift at maintenance levels, not progressive overloads), you'll really start to burn off the fat and see the re-comp of the body you've worked so hard at through lifting.
You raise a lot of really valid points that I had overlooked, and I appreciate that. I do think that I could be lifting heavier, as the program recommends 90 seconds rest if it was easy, and 3 minutes if it wasn't (whereas I typically find myself impatient after about 30 seconds). So that's definitely something to take into consideration...
I'm a bit worried about eating at a surplus, as I don't feel that Stronglifts is really intensive enough to justify eating at 2000 calories a day (which is about what I would have to do if I want to eliminate a deficit, AND eat back my calories) I'm used to eating 1200 to 1400, and I'm already struggling with the thought of going to 1600, but I guess once I'm working harder, I'll actually WANT that energy, and need those calories. Whereas now they just seem to sit heavy in my stomach...
I guess the biggest thing I'm confused on is eating at a surplus (at least 1700 calories, for me, not including exercise calories) because I want to gain muscle, yes, but I'm worried about controlling the muscle to fat ratio. If I start seeing more fat than muscle gain (I mean, significantly more, I'm likely going to get scared and want to ditch it... So, with that being said, I'll start out at 1500, see how it feels. I'll start lifting heavier and stick to cycling maybe one day out of the week if I'm feeling froggy and up for it. Just to keep some cardio in there, and because I genuinely enjoy it. Then on my "rest days" I'll probably just do some yoga to help recoop the muscles, and also build that mind-body connection that so desperately needs some strengthening...
Baby steps, baby steps... I'll slowly work my way up to maintence levels, then up to a deficit once I feel that I'm ready. I lost 9 pounds and dropped a good full percent body fat (subjective, I know) in about a month and a half's time when I went from 1200 to 1400 calories a day and started the Stronglifts/Cycling 3 days a week. So there's proof that I can shed that fat pretty easy; I really do need to stop being scared about bulking up and just start lifting heavy and getting my gains on so I can trim off all the excess fat and have a nice slab of prime ribs to gander at/show off at the end of the day ;P
Thank you again, to everyone! This is such a huge help and I'm learning so much that I never would have been willing to accept via outside source...0 -
You've been given great info so far.
I'd suggest at this stage upping the cals a bit though. 1500 at 130lbs is still low for the amount of activity it seems you are doing. Your maintenance cals are probably a bit lower due to the dieting so far. As you increase, your metabolism will increase and it is likely that you can eat a fair few more calories before any actual weight gain.
There will be an initial increase as suggested. Predominantly water due to carb increases in most cases. Each gram of carbs hold 3-4g of carbs. Plus in some cases the physical volume of the food.
I'd ease up a bit on the cardio on off days personally. If it's just light intensity like travelling on a bike then no issue as long as you eat enough cals to make up for it.
I was going to mention that some higher rep ranges could be beneficial but at your current level I'd say stick to the 5x5 until you have plateau'd in strength and reset 3 times. Then evaluate.0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »Muscle gains while on a calorie deficit is not likely to happen. You’ve seen some gain, but that had more to do with being new to lifting and keeping your deficit at a reasonable level.
If you want to go for both, then you’ll need to lower your expectations of each. Here’s how I would do it:
- Change the calorie deficit to 250 per day (this will slow your fat loss).
- Increase your protein a little.
- Change your rep range from 5 to 8, but still lift as heavy as you can (shift from strength to hypertrophy focus).
It might take another two months to see any tangible results.
Very true0 -
chrisdavey wrote: »You've been given great info so far.
I'd suggest at this stage upping the cals a bit though. 1500 at 130lbs is still low for the amount of activity it seems you are doing. Your maintenance cals are probably a bit lower due to the dieting so far. As you increase, your metabolism will increase and it is likely that you can eat a fair few more calories before any actual weight gain.
There will be an initial increase as suggested. Predominantly water due to carb increases in most cases. Each gram of carbs hold 3-4g of carbs. Plus in some cases the physical volume of the food.
I'd ease up a bit on the cardio on off days personally. If it's just light intensity like travelling on a bike then no issue as long as you eat enough cals to make up for it.
I was going to mention that some higher rep ranges could be beneficial but at your current level I'd say stick to the 5x5 until you have plateau'd in strength and reset 3 times. Then evaluate.
Even if I cut out the cardio, would you suggest eating higher? Apparently my maintenance level would be 1700... I'll have to give it a shot...0 -
OK, I totally get the nervousness regarding eating above maintenance let alone in caloric excess. Really, I do. I think, given the naturally active lifestyle you've designed for yourself, you'll find it surprisingly hard to gain. I thought that the day I started eating in excess, I'd wake up the next day 20 pounds heavier. It didn't happen. Gaining was actually harder than I thought it'd be.
And I understand that you might think Stronglifts isn't much of a workout now. If you keep on progressing to heavier weights, I think you'll find it more challenging and exhausting to your system, and soon you'll see what many of us are saying--you WILL need rest days!
I was told by my trainer to just eat about 250 calories over my TDEE (if you haven't heard of that, google it and look on these forums, lots of info; total daily energy expenditure). He suggested something as simple as a glass of whole milk. Or chocolate milk (one of the best recovery drinks ever!). My regular diet with the addition of some whole milk/chocolate milk, that added fats, carbs, and protein. Cow milk, not almond/soy/rice (virtually no protein). Makes it easier to "go back" to a deficit--just subtract the milk.
So why don't you first try eating at maintenance (maintenance AND eat back your exercise calories, which is true maintenance) by sticking to your regular diet only adding a glass of milk and a scoop of protein powder. The test, really, would be to see if you could still progress on weights. Trust me, you'll hit a wall if you don't give yourself enough nutrition.
One of the earlier posters suggested keeping a weekly tally of calories in/out. If you don't feel the weights give you a major workout (and like I said, weightlifting itself isn't a huge calorie burner), on those days eat at maintenance (again, maintenance plus exercise calories--which if all you do is weights, that would be sort of the same). On days you bike, that's when your muscles do need that extra energy for repair and growth, plus you'd be doing a bit more exercise, hit maintenance (eating your exercise calories) PLUS maybe an additional 200 calories. So a few times a week, you go over by a couple hundred calories. That's not going to even add up to 1/2 pound a week.
See how you feel on some regimen like that. Give it time for your body to stabilize. When you lift heavy, you tear tiny little fibers in your muscles, and your muscles will retain water to repair/recover. You'll see bumps and dips in your weight; don't worry, just look at trends week to week, month to month. Take measurements and photos. Test and experiment. It's all good. You're not going to blimp out in a month or two by eating just barely over excess. Really. Trust yourself. And lift as heavy as possible and incorporate those suggested rest periods in between sets. They're programmed in for a reason.
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Hmmm, professional and amatuer bodybuilders on PED's don't have success doing it, so you must have some really special genetics. Maybe myostatin inhibition exists in your genes?You can definitely build muscle on a deficit, well I can anyway. Just make sure you're eating clean, lots of protein. Keep your weights routine regular and heavy. Good luck!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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CarlydogsMom wrote: »OK, I totally get the nervousness regarding eating above maintenance let alone in caloric excess. Really, I do. I think, given the naturally active lifestyle you've designed for yourself, you'll find it surprisingly hard to gain. I thought that the day I started eating in excess, I'd wake up the next day 20 pounds heavier. It didn't happen. Gaining was actually harder than I thought it'd be.
And I understand that you might think Stronglifts isn't much of a workout now. If you keep on progressing to heavier weights, I think you'll find it more challenging and exhausting to your system, and soon you'll see what many of us are saying--you WILL need rest days!
I was told by my trainer to just eat about 250 calories over my TDEE (if you haven't heard of that, google it and look on these forums, lots of info; total daily energy expenditure). He suggested something as simple as a glass of whole milk. Or chocolate milk (one of the best recovery drinks ever!). My regular diet with the addition of some whole milk/chocolate milk, that added fats, carbs, and protein. Cow milk, not almond/soy/rice (virtually no protein). Makes it easier to "go back" to a deficit--just subtract the milk.
So why don't you first try eating at maintenance (maintenance AND eat back your exercise calories, which is true maintenance) by sticking to your regular diet only adding a glass of milk and a scoop of protein powder. The test, really, would be to see if you could still progress on weights. Trust me, you'll hit a wall if you don't give yourself enough nutrition.
One of the earlier posters suggested keeping a weekly tally of calories in/out. If you don't feel the weights give you a major workout (and like I said, weightlifting itself isn't a huge calorie burner), on those days eat at maintenance (again, maintenance plus exercise calories--which if all you do is weights, that would be sort of the same). On days you bike, that's when your muscles do need that extra energy for repair and growth, plus you'd be doing a bit more exercise, hit maintenance (eating your exercise calories) PLUS maybe an additional 200 calories. So a few times a week, you go over by a couple hundred calories. That's not going to even add up to 1/2 pound a week.
See how you feel on some regimen like that. Give it time for your body to stabilize. When you lift heavy, you tear tiny little fibers in your muscles, and your muscles will retain water to repair/recover. You'll see bumps and dips in your weight; don't worry, just look at trends week to week, month to month. Take measurements and photos. Test and experiment. It's all good. You're not going to blimp out in a month or two by eating just barely over excess. Really. Trust yourself. And lift as heavy as possible and incorporate those suggested rest periods in between sets. They're programmed in for a reason.
Your wisdom is endless, I swear, haha. Seriously though, this is so appreciated, and I'm (slowly, but surely) becoming more comfortable with the idea of "bulking". I think that eating at maintenance is much more reasonable a place to start than trying to go from a 500 calorie deficit to eating an excess...
I've also come to the conclusion that I need to focus on lifting heavier (probably a lot heavier) to the point where I need that 90 seconds rest, and I'm not fidgeting to go again in 30 seconds, twiddling my thumbs. And you're right, that once I get going heavy, I won't want to do cardio on my off days, because I'll NEED that break. So since I have M - W off, I figured I could do my weights M and W, and then maybe just throw in biking on Tuesdays if I'm feeling froggy. Then Th and Sat, just rest, do some yoga, or something. I do hot yoga on Sunday nights, and that's a workout in itself, so maybe Th and Sat can just be "take it easy, you deserve this, here have some ice cream" days... xD
And I guess you're right... I went a few years with just eating whatever I damned well pleased, and literally sitting on my bum 90% of the time (except for when I'd go to the bar and drink/dance all night) and I never went far over 140, so I figure if I'm watching what I eat and busting my *kitten* on the weights, then there's no reason I can't do this...
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CarlydogsMom wrote: »OK, I'll try to respond to your numbers from my numbers
2. Would you suggest going up to 8 reps, as was recommended before? Or stick to the 5 sets, 5 reps? I lift heavy enough to put myself just below exhaustion each set
2. Stick with 5x5. If you're concentrating on growing muscles, lifting heavier weights for fewer reps beats more reps at lighter weights.
This is half true. A 5x5 is primarily focused on strength. It does provide some muscle mass gain, but that is a secondary aspect of lifting heavier weights. Rep ranges provide a range of benefits, but maximize certain aspects.
1 - 5 for strength
6 - 10 for mass
11 - 25 for endurance
I recommended 8 reps because the OP wanted to maximize mass retention/gain. She should still lift as heavy as possible under good form.
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AllanMisner wrote: »CarlydogsMom wrote: »OK, I'll try to respond to your numbers from my numbers2. Would you suggest going up to 8 reps, as was recommended before? Or stick to the 5 sets, 5 reps? I lift heavy enough to put myself just below exhaustion each set
2. Stick with 5x5. If you're concentrating on growing muscles, lifting heavier weights for fewer reps beats more reps at lighter weights.
This is half true. A 5x5 is primarily focused on strength. It does provide some muscle mass gain, but that is a secondary aspect of lifting heavier weights. Rep ranges provide a range of benefits, but maximize certain aspects.
1 - 5 for strength
6 - 10 for mass
11 - 25 for endurance
I recommended 8 reps because the OP wanted to maximize mass retention/gain. She should still lift as heavy as possible under good form.
So whats the difference between 5x5 and 4x6 (other than the one additional rep in the 5x5), or 10x3 and 3x10?0 -
@AllanMisner Again, there is a wealth of information out there, and not all of it is entirely accurate, but I had read (somewhere in the depths of the internet) that StrongLifts was perfect for "beginner" lifters such as myself, who were looking to lift heavy. I personally have seen some muscle growth since starting the program (though of course that could be "newbie gains" that I've heard talk of). I do feel like starting out by increasing my strength is the best idea, considering I have the upper body strength of a 5 year old... I do try to put in an extra rep if I can each set, just to give myself that extra push. Of course if I'm struggling or hurting, I'll stop at 5, but usually I try to challenge myself to get "just one more", and then if I can get an extra rep in on each set, I know I'm ready to bump it up ten pounds next time (I can't do +5 pounds on bench or squats, cause PF doesn't have 2.5lb weights
![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
@LolBroScience Kind of curious on that myself? Though I'm in no position to be skeptical, the same amount of reps (over all), is the same amount of reps, in my eyes?0 -
There probably isn’t much of a difference between a 5x5 and a 4x6, but there would definitely be a difference in a 10 x 3 program and a 3 x 10.
A 10 x 3 lifter would be lifting around 80 - 90% of their 1 RM, and through 10 sets (which would be killer, I’d probably go with no more than 6), would focus primarily on strength. Strength athletes seldom lift more than 5 reps, and 3 reps is very common.
A 3 x 10 program is a standard bodybuilding routine. The weights would be around 50% of 1 RM. You’d see mass building (bodybuilding) and less pure strength gains. Pump.0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »@AllanMisner Again, there is a wealth of information out there, and not all of it is entirely accurate, but I had read (somewhere in the depths of the internet) that StrongLifts was perfect for "beginner" lifters such as myself, who were looking to lift heavy. I personally have seen some muscle growth since starting the program (though of course that could be "newbie gains" that I've heard talk of). I do feel like starting out by increasing my strength is the best idea, considering I have the upper body strength of a 5 year old... I do try to put in an extra rep if I can each set, just to give myself that extra push. Of course if I'm struggling or hurting, I'll stop at 5, but usually I try to challenge myself to get "just one more", and then if I can get an extra rep in on each set, I know I'm ready to bump it up ten pounds next time (I can't do +5 pounds on bench or squats, cause PF doesn't have 2.5lb weights
@LolBroScience Kind of curious on that myself? Though I'm in no position to be skeptical, the same amount of reps (over all), is the same amount of reps, in my eyes?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
His comments: http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/bodybuilding-vs-powerlifting-type-training-which-builds-more-strength-and-muscle/
Full text is due out soon I believe.
Other than the fact that the 3x10 is less time consuming, less stressful on CNS, and more than likely a lower risk of energy...
10x3 @ 85% of 400 = 10,200 lbs
3x10 @ 70% of 400 = 8,400 lbs
More total volume achieved through the 10x3 as an example.0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »@AllanMisner Again, there is a wealth of information out there, and not all of it is entirely accurate, but I had read (somewhere in the depths of the internet) that StrongLifts was perfect for "beginner" lifters such as myself, who were looking to lift heavy. I personally have seen some muscle growth since starting the program (though of course that could be "newbie gains" that I've heard talk of). I do feel like starting out by increasing my strength is the best idea, considering I have the upper body strength of a 5 year old... I do try to put in an extra rep if I can each set, just to give myself that extra push. Of course if I'm struggling or hurting, I'll stop at 5, but usually I try to challenge myself to get "just one more", and then if I can get an extra rep in on each set, I know I'm ready to bump it up ten pounds next time (I can't do +5 pounds on bench or squats, cause PF doesn't have 2.5lb weights
@LolBroScience Kind of curious on that myself? Though I'm in no position to be skeptical, the same amount of reps (over all), is the same amount of reps, in my eyes?
Yes, the 5x5 is a great program for beginners. In fact, I often recommend it on this forum (almost exclusively). But, the OP specifically said they wanted to focus on muscle mass now. Lowering the weight a little and hitting more of the hypertrophy rep level (and yes, increasing the weight as they reach three clean sets at 8, just as they would on any progressive lifting program).
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Just to note, I'm not recommending the 10x3 over the 3x10... especially for a beginner. Simply pointing there isn't a HUGE amount of difference.
That said, I'd recommend the 5x5 as you more than likely don't have much of a strength base for one. 5x5 still provides sufficient volume and intensity for hypertrophy to occur.0 -
This is OP, actually, haha. And I do believe that muscle mass is my goal, though I could be mistaken and just throwing around buzzwords like an *kitten*... Essentially, my goal is to get stronger, and have near-visible to visible muscular shape-- "toned" if you will. I want to be lean, and I don't want all those flabby bits here and there. So if that involves bulking, then cutting, and "gaining muscle mass" then yes, that is what I want.
I understand that women simply don't have the testosterone to get HUGE, but I'm also not really looking to have a bodybuilder's form-- just get lean, tone, and strong.
Hope that makes sense!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Just to note, I'm not recommending the 10x3 over the 3x10... especially for a beginner. Simply pointing there isn't a HUGE amount of difference.
Would you be willing to do a split program where one arm trains at 10x3 and the other trains at 3 x 10?
My premise is, in the first, you’d see your 1 RM go up more, in the second, you’d see the muscle mass go up more.
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AllanMisner wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Just to note, I'm not recommending the 10x3 over the 3x10... especially for a beginner. Simply pointing there isn't a HUGE amount of difference.
Would you be willing to do a split program where one arm trains at 10x3 and the other trains at 3 x 10?
My premise is, in the first, you’d see your 1 RM go up more, in the second, you’d see the muscle mass go up more.
No, I wouldn't because I don't directly train arms. I also don't see a point doing 10x3 on something such as a curl because I'm not willing to find out my 1RM on curls and calculate programming based off that. Now, if we're talking Squats and Deads - Yep, I'll bite.0
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