Muscle Gain on a Calorie Deficit?
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Don't worry about empty calories. You don't have to eat all chicken and broccoli. You can eat ice cream, etc.
You will probably feel better working out though if most of the extra calories come from nutritionally dense foods. The 100 calories from an apple for example will fuel your training better than 100 calories from ice cream.
rubbish. 205 calories of snickers is significantly superior to 250 calories of say broccoli as a preworkout.0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »I was actually informed the other day that MFP is only NEAT...
MFP is neither NEAT nor TDEE - it's whichever way the user wants to use it.
Set your activity level to include your exercise habits, don't log exercise, and you're TDEE. Or set your activity level to not include your exercise habits, log your exercise, and you're NEAT.
Or do a hybrid where some but not all exercise is reflected in your activity level, and only log "excess" exercise, and you're doing a hybrid NEAT/TDEE.
It's all up to you...
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You can gain strength up to a point as well as definition but will not actually gain mass on a deficit.0
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foursirius wrote: »You can gain strength up to a point on a deficit but will not actually gain mass.
Not necessarily true.0 -
CarlydogsMom wrote: »BF% and BMI won't skyrocket
they'll just start a slow enough trend going up, but also don't forget you're going to be putting on muscle (slowly, as per the norm) and a small bit of fat while you're eating over maintenance--so yes, those numbers may rise slightly, but that's to be expected. Just enjoy the lifting, enjoy getting stronger, enjoy seeing more plates put on that bar!
Oh, start NOW, take pictures and measurements! Front, sideways, flexed arms, unflexed arms, etc etc.
Done and done. I took these last night after a grueling 90 minute hot yoga session (burned damned near 800 calories, was NOT expecting that and it was far too late to try and eat it all back) so pardon the grossness that is my sweaty hair/flesh
These are both unflexed; I tried taking flexed but it was difficult the way I was taking them. I'll have to have someone else take them, or use a standalone camera. But it's a good starting point!
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NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »I was actually informed the other day that MFP is only NEAT...
MFP is neither NEAT nor TDEE - it's whichever way the user wants to use it.
Set your activity level to include your exercise habits, don't log exercise, and you're TDEE. Or set your activity level to not include your exercise habits, log your exercise, and you're NEAT.
Or do a hybrid where some but not all exercise is reflected in your activity level, and only log "excess" exercise, and you're doing a hybrid NEAT/TDEE.
It's all up to you...
I personally use it as a rough estimate for NEAT, and then cross reference what my fitbit claims my NEAT was for the day, and then just manually add in my workout calories (Fitbit Flex said I burned 210 calories last night during yoga, while my Polar heart rate montior said I burned 782) so it's a guessing game, but I'll learn my body and in time I'll get this whole thing figured out!0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »I was actually informed the other day that MFP is only NEAT...
MFP is neither NEAT nor TDEE - it's whichever way the user wants to use it.
Set your activity level to include your exercise habits, don't log exercise, and you're TDEE. Or set your activity level to not include your exercise habits, log your exercise, and you're NEAT.
Or do a hybrid where some but not all exercise is reflected in your activity level, and only log "excess" exercise, and you're doing a hybrid NEAT/TDEE.
It's all up to you...
I personally use it as a rough estimate for NEAT, and then cross reference what my fitbit claims my NEAT was for the day, and then just manually add in my workout calories (Fitbit Flex said I burned 210 calories last night during yoga, while my Polar heart rate montior said I burned 782) so it's a guessing game, but I'll learn my body and in time I'll get this whole thing figured out!
You can't use a Polar to gauge calorie burns from activities like weight lifting, yoga, etc. The algorithms they use are based on how steady state cardio activities affect heart rate. Activities that use different energy systems produce false readings.
Azdak has a good write up if you're interested:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/hrms-cannot-count-calories-during-strength-training-176980 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »I was actually informed the other day that MFP is only NEAT...
MFP is neither NEAT nor TDEE - it's whichever way the user wants to use it.
Set your activity level to include your exercise habits, don't log exercise, and you're TDEE. Or set your activity level to not include your exercise habits, log your exercise, and you're NEAT.
Or do a hybrid where some but not all exercise is reflected in your activity level, and only log "excess" exercise, and you're doing a hybrid NEAT/TDEE.
It's all up to you...
I personally use it as a rough estimate for NEAT, and then cross reference what my fitbit claims my NEAT was for the day, and then just manually add in my workout calories (Fitbit Flex said I burned 210 calories last night during yoga, while my Polar heart rate montior said I burned 782) so it's a guessing game, but I'll learn my body and in time I'll get this whole thing figured out!
You can't use a Polar to gauge calorie burns from activities like weight lifting, yoga, etc. The algorithms they use are based on how steady state cardio activities affect heart rate. Activities that use different energy systems produce false readings.
Azdak has a good write up if you're interested:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/hrms-cannot-count-calories-during-strength-training-17698
Every calorie burn is an estimate (even with a heart rate monitor). It has several assumptions and while you might be meeting most of them with a standard run, you’re probably not meeting all of them. So, there is an error rate. Plug it in and go. If, after a few weeks, you aren’t seeing the results you want, tweak the estimates and charge on.0 -
UPDATE (kind of): So I've been doing this 2,000 calorie deal for about a week now. As you see above, I had taken photos on the 30th (Monday) with updated scale "measurements". This morning, purely out of curiosity, I hopped on the scale and was kind of shocked at the changes already.
Monday:
132.7 pounds
23% Bodyfat
56.3% H20
21.3 BMI
Today:
137.1
23.6% Bodyfat
55.9% H20
22BMI
INB4: PATIENCE, KID. TAKES TIME. YOU'LL NOTICE FLUCTUATION. DON'T FREAK OUT.
Yes, yes, yes-- I understand. Just reiterating to those who have reached out to me or mentioned in the thread that they have similar goals, to EXPECT THIS. I wasn't fluctuating more than +2/-2 pounds around my 132 weight (I weighed myself every other day to make note of any trends) so when, not even a *week* after starting this minimal surplus deal (and I haven't even been able to eat my full 2,000 calories yet) I'm already ballooning, as far as the scale is concerned. Oddly enough, however, I don't *look* any different- If anything, my tummy looks a little flatter, and I feel... lighter? Fancy that, huh?
I'm still not happy about the number, but so long as it doesn't become a steady, upward trend, then we should be just fine. I'm excited to get closer to my goals and start seeing some NSV, so I can stop stressing about how this will all play out...0 -
This is why I would never own a scale that tells me anything more than my body weight. It would drive me insane. Eat right, lift heavy, repeat, you will reap the benefits.0
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Thanks for the update @NekoneMeowMixx!!!
I've been following your post trying to wrap my head around macros/cals for information on how to tailor the numbers to my goals.0 -
Heh, yeah. I try to remind myself that this is all strictly calculations, and the accuracy of such is probably WAY, way off. Unfortunately, the whole "follow the overall trend" rule is still nagging at me.
Another thing I'm struggling with (and I just made a thread under food and nutrition, actually) is managing to eat the total 2,000 daily calories. I mean, I'm a fat kid at heart, so when I heard it would help me, I was like, "hell yeah"
^Literally this is me.
But in actual practice, I am going insane. I just went grocery shopping yesterday evening and bought a ton of healthy food. (Lots of veggies, especially). I logged everything that I have to eat for the day until I get home at 6, and have dinner. AND I STILL HAVE OVER 900 CALORIES LEFT FOR THE DAY. I'm also nowhere close to reaching my macros. I don't know what to do, and it's becoming increasingly frustrating. I eat when I'm hungry, and so far I just haven't been able to push that 2,000 calorie mark without eating Jet's Pizza, or having a donut, or something grossly unhealthy that I (and my stomach) hate me for later.
I don't know if it's just mind over matter, and I need to start eating double what I am (not a fan of the idea) or if I just need some help finding more "dense" foods. Either way-- going crazy!! I don't want all this sweet, sweet gym time going to waste! >:c
@giusa -- You're welcome! Hopefully you're not/won't encounter(ing) these struggles, because oh my wow, are they REAL. v.v0 -
Hey, I just left a comment on your home page, but wanted to add more since there's more details here. It IS hard, isn't it? My hardest challenge is meeting my protein macro (over or about 100 g.). I googled "highest protein per calorie foods" and got some good ideas. Also, good things to add may be a protein powder shake made with whole milk (I'll add plain whole-fat greek yogurt/milk/protein powder and a bit of water to thin it out). Chocolate milk after your workout is a good recovery drink, too. Lift, eat right, and have fun!0
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What macros are you missing on? My protein sources are made up with chicken, pork, lean ground turkey, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and if I am still short I will supplement with Whey Protein Powder.
Fats are usually made up with avocado, peanut butter, coconut oil, low calorie low sodium cheese like swiss, whole milk, butter, etc.
Carbs are usually really easy to fill in and I typically go over on my carbs.0 -
@CarlydogsMom It feels impossible some days, I swear, haha. And unfortunately whole milk and I don't really get along. I was using soy and almond milk (switched to the latter after hearing about soy in excess being bad for women, and also because it typically had more protein) but I just made the switch to fat free milk, and I'm hoping my body can handle that okay, because I do love me some chocolate milk, and it seems a damned shame to miss out on the luxury of added protein just because my body doesn't want me to drink milk...
@DvIDwnInGA (It won't let me tag you for some reason >.>) Protein is my biggest struggle, honestly. I eat cottage cheese and greek yogurt almost every day when I work (I bought a bento style lunch box and a cup of each fits perfectly in) I also make sure I have some source of protein (today it's healthy ones turkey lunchmeat-- higher protein, with a fraction of the sodium) not sure what's for dinner, but I'm thinking probably pork steaks. (even that won't get me close to what I need though, I don't think)
I usually have no issue going over carbs (though I try not to) I'm noticing that the sodium content on a cup of cottage cheese (0% milkfat) is absurd (like 600mg or something) which may not seem like much but is pin-pointed as the culprit when I haven't even logged my full days' food and I'm already balls deep over my sodium intake, but my calories and protein is like, "wahhh wahhhh...."
Question: If I do by some miraculous miracle of wowness, manage to hit (consistently) all of my GOOD macros, what's the allowance on calories? I mean, I presume a surplus is still needed in order to gain muscle. But I would think that less calories higher protein/fat/carbs is better than high calories with virtually no nutritional significance...0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »Heh, yeah. I try to remind myself that this is all strictly calculations, and the accuracy of such is probably WAY, way off. Unfortunately, the whole "follow the overall trend" rule is still nagging at me.
Another thing I'm struggling with (and I just made a thread under food and nutrition, actually) is managing to eat the total 2,000 daily calories. I mean, I'm a fat kid at heart, so when I heard it would help me, I was like, "hell yeah"
^Literally this is me.
But in actual practice, I am going insane. I just went grocery shopping yesterday evening and bought a ton of healthy food. (Lots of veggies, especially). I logged everything that I have to eat for the day until I get home at 6, and have dinner. AND I STILL HAVE OVER 900 CALORIES LEFT FOR THE DAY. I'm also nowhere close to reaching my macros. I don't know what to do, and it's becoming increasingly frustrating. I eat when I'm hungry, and so far I just haven't been able to push that 2,000 calorie mark without eating Jet's Pizza, or having a donut, or something grossly unhealthy that I (and my stomach) hate me for later.
I don't know if it's just mind over matter, and I need to start eating double what I am (not a fan of the idea) or if I just need some help finding more "dense" foods. Either way-- going crazy!! I don't want all this sweet, sweet gym time going to waste! >:c
@giusa -- You're welcome! Hopefully you're not/won't encounter(ing) these struggles, because oh my wow, are they REAL. v.v
you need more calorie dense foods aka bagels, steak, ice cream, pasta, rice, etc...
this is problem with trying to "eat clean" when increasing calories, it becomes impossible to hit the higher calorie mark on vegetables and fish.0 -
NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »Question: If I do by some miraculous miracle of wowness, manage to hit (consistently) all of my GOOD macros, what's the allowance on calories? I mean, I presume a surplus is still needed in order to gain muscle. But I would think that less calories higher protein/fat/carbs is better than high calories with virtually no nutritional significance...
Depends if you have met your minimums for the day or not0 -
@ndj1979 -- Mmm, bagels. Yeah, I need to do some research on more calorie dense foods. I try not to go overboard on the carbs-- I have no problem eating my daily macro intakes' worth, but I think 200g is probably a *little* excessive when I'm not eating a fraction of that number in protein...
@LolBroScience -- Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. If I can meet my minimum (at least) for all my macros, it seems like that would be more important than meeting my calorie goal. And who knows-- maybe once I figure out how to meet my macros, I'll be able to get higher up there on my calories, in turn.0 -
First thing you really need to do is stop thinking carbs are bad. Yes you eat them, but you seem to have it in your head that they are a negative thing.0
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If protein is your biggest struggle, grab some protein powder. Most of your decent protein powders will come in at 120 to 130 calories per scoop and will provide 24 to 25 grams of protein. Mix it in with some plain greek yogurt. Or put it in a shaker and drink with some milk.
I also like to eat pre cooked chicken as a snack. I will grab a pack of pre cooked chicken from Costco and throw some mustard and red pepper flake on it and nuke it for a snack. I like to do this on my cardio days as it is more satisfying than drinking my extra protein. 220 cals for 44 grams of protein.
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