Muscle Gain on a Calorie Deficit?
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I agree with a lot said and the 5X5 is great, but I have a lot of luck breaking plateaus by changing it up each month. So 1 month of lifting heavy... Like 85-95% of your 1 rep max. Then the next mouth dropping to 3-4 sets 12-16 reps at 50-70% of your 1 rep max. It does a few things... One, it gives your body a rest from lifting heavy that can help protect against injury. Two it will build endurance strength and help strengthen you stabilizer muscles so when you go to lift heavy again those smaller helper muscles will be stronger and you will lift more. It's a great way to cycle. I hope it helps.0
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kateabusse wrote: »Hi, I just started reading this thread and am really enjoying the motivation. Its crazy, I am almost the same spot as you. I am 126lb, 5'6" 20%BF, and have been working with a nutritionist the past few months working on meal planning and some clean eating. I told her my goal was muscle gain and losing body fat, and she told me initially to gain the muscle, i would have to increase my calories to 2000 if not more. I NEVER eat that much..but after some time I got close to an average of 1900. Some days are better than others. I am also working with a trainer to readjust some of the diet and my powerlifting plan. I am interested in changing my macros, but sticking to the same amount of calories, (cutting the carbs down, as this can help some of that extra fat to be cut at the same time of gaining muscle). It is still a LONG HAUL, but it will be worth it. My trainer also added in some crossfit WODs to my powerlifting to give me some High intensity bursts to burn some calories while lifting weights. I ABSOLUTELY love my workouts and how I feel after. Currently adding in 20min cardio on the days that I dont have those WODs. I love the advice you've been given thus far and will probably be using it for some extra motivation and get me to tough it out. I am like you..when i get nervous I'm seeing results I dont like, i run for the bike and get back to cardio. 2 years ago that was all I did...spin class 4 days a week and some small weightlifting days...i was 117 and 10.8% fat...but NOTHING was toned..I was unhappy with that as well. My trainer told me the other day that I just need to keep working and never feel like I'm starting over or ever feel like I'm 5 steps behind, because the harder I work for it the more character I am building and will be happier in the end. I am ready for these changes, and ready to keep fighting for them!!!
Okay, I know I just rambled a lot, but all that to say, I think its great knowing there are others out there in my shoes and we can motivate each other! You're going to get there! Dont give up on it, each body is different, and you just have to tweak everything to find what your body is going to respond to. AND NEVER GIVE UP!!! :-)
I think 20% body fat would be a really comfortable spot for me. It's hard to tell until I'm actually there (numbers are nothing compared to visual, NSV) but with the assumption that I really am almost 24% body fat right now, I see that being a good long (long)-term goal. I plan on eating at/around maintenance for a while to try and whittle down somewhere closer to 20%, and then come this fall when it gets to being sweater weather, I'll have little to no issue bulking up and then shedding it all for the upcoming spring/summer session.
Too bad I didn't start all this last year instead of spinning my wheels doing nothing v.v0 -
I agree with a lot said and the 5X5 is great, but I have a lot of luck breaking plateaus by changing it up each month. So 1 month of lifting heavy... Like 85-95% of your 1 rep max. Then the next mouth dropping to 3-4 sets 12-16 reps at 50-70% of your 1 rep max. It does a few things... One, it gives your body a rest from lifting heavy that can help protect against injury. Two it will build endurance strength and help strengthen you stabilizer muscles so when you go to lift heavy again those smaller helper muscles will be stronger and you will lift more. It's a great way to cycle. I hope it helps.
That's a really good suggestion. I love Stronglifts, and I don't feel that I've really peaked yet, or came to a point when I'd need to deload, but I feel like I'm getting there. I thought maybe I'd just continue Stronglifts through the month of April, then I'll try the 12 - 16 reps deal. Is there any program that you would suggest? I'm terrible at constructing my own lifting plans!
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?0
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
What does that even mean? Your calorie intake is 2300 but you only eat 2100. Because you are female? Are you for real?0 -
@Hornsby I read above about your success with recomp which is what I'm interested in. You eat at maintenance every day? Or did you take it up by 10-15% at any point? I read that for recomp, you need to eat slightly above maintenance. But if you successfully gained lean body mass and didn't put on pounds, means you lost fat in the process so I wanna do it your way.0
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@Hornsby I read above about your success with recomp which is what I'm interested in. You eat at maintenance every day? Or did you take it up by 10-15% at any point? I read that for recomp, you need to eat slightly above maintenance. But if you successfully gained lean body mass and didn't put on pounds, means you lost fat in the process so I wanna do it your way.
Eat a bit more on days I lift. Eat a little less on days I don't. No idea if that does anything but it makes me feel good cause I'm hungrier on lift days.
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Op once again you are all over the place. You need to pick one of the following goals, and commit to it
Cut down body fat to x percent
Bulk to x weight then cut
Recomp
Anything else is just spinning your wheels0 -
Op once again you are all over the place. You need to pick one of the following goals, and commit to it
Cut down body fat to x percent
Bulk to x weight then cut
Recomp
Anything else is just spinning your wheels
^This.
You need to figure out where you want to go.
Then put into action the steps that will take you there.
The sooner you start doing it, then sooner you'll get where you want to go.0 -
Wow! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. I meant I should be eating 2300 calories a day, but because Ihave never lost weight on a diet I am trying to cut out some and only aiming at 2100 because with weight loss before weight training I was told to eat about 1400 so 2300 is a huge (scary) difference... I was just curious... I suppose this thread isn't for me.Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
What does that even mean? Your calorie intake is 2300 but you only eat 2100. Because you are female? Are you for real?
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AllanMisner wrote: »NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »I was actually informed the other day that MFP is only NEAT...
MFP is neither NEAT nor TDEE - it's whichever way the user wants to use it.
Set your activity level to include your exercise habits, don't log exercise, and you're TDEE. Or set your activity level to not include your exercise habits, log your exercise, and you're NEAT.
Or do a hybrid where some but not all exercise is reflected in your activity level, and only log "excess" exercise, and you're doing a hybrid NEAT/TDEE.
It's all up to you...
I personally use it as a rough estimate for NEAT, and then cross reference what my fitbit claims my NEAT was for the day, and then just manually add in my workout calories (Fitbit Flex said I burned 210 calories last night during yoga, while my Polar heart rate montior said I burned 782) so it's a guessing game, but I'll learn my body and in time I'll get this whole thing figured out!
You can't use a Polar to gauge calorie burns from activities like weight lifting, yoga, etc. The algorithms they use are based on how steady state cardio activities affect heart rate. Activities that use different energy systems produce false readings.
Azdak has a good write up if you're interested:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/hrms-cannot-count-calories-during-strength-training-17698
Every calorie burn is an estimate (even with a heart rate monitor). It has several assumptions and while you might be meeting most of them with a standard run, you’re probably not meeting all of them. So, there is an error rate. Plug it in and go. If, after a few weeks, you aren’t seeing the results you want, tweak the estimates and charge on.
I know this goes against the popular message, but I fully agree with @AllanMisner. I use a polar when weight lifting, I enter the calories in MFP and I consistently lose. I have been doing this for a long time. It may not be 100% accurate, but when it comes to cutting/bulking, nothing is except that it is about calories in versus calories out.0 -
I've decided to go ahead with the recomp, as I was struggling to eat enough calories to "bulk" and just didn't feel that it was the right time to go through with that. As I mentioned (or perhaps that was in the other thread, I'm not sure) since it's already Spring, I would rather take the slow and steady route (i.e- recomp) and then focus on strengthening and perhaps bulking once the colder months come back around and I'm at a lower body fat percentage than I am now (i.e-- closer to where I feel comfortable at to start bulking)@Hornsby I read above about your success with recomp which is what I'm interested in. You eat at maintenance every day? Or did you take it up by 10-15% at any point? I read that for recomp, you need to eat slightly above maintenance. But if you successfully gained lean body mass and didn't put on pounds, means you lost fat in the process so I wanna do it your way.
I think a recomp sounds like the way to go, given my goals. Since ours are similar, I would be interested to see your results with it. I found a blog post through MFP, regarding Recomp macros, but it seems a bit off... This is the article I used to find the + xxx / - xxx calories for training/rest days.
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-how-to-lose-fat-gain-muscle-at-the-same-time/
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First, figure out your maintenance calories. Input your information into your MFP Diet Profile, then set your goal for “maintain my current weight” and hit “update.” The number you were given is your Maintenance Caloric Intake, or Maintenance Calories (MC).
Next, figure out your training day calories. Take your MC, and increase it by 15%. Keep in mind, training days are ONLY days you train with weights.
Finally, determine your rest day calories. Take your MC and decrease it by 10%. Rest days are any days you DO NOT train with weights.
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Then this was the article I used for the macros (where I got confused)
http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
To Determine Training Day Calories:
First, determine your protein intake in both grams and calories. Multiply your bodyweight by 1.5 (this is the total grams of protein you eat). Multiply your result by 4 (this is the total number of calories that will come from those grams of protein).
Second, determine your carbohydrate intake in both grams and calories. Multiply your bodyweight by 1.5 (this is the total grams of carbs you eat). Multiply your result by 4 (this is the total number of calories that will come from those grams of carbs).
Third, determine how many calories remain. Add the calories from your protein and carbs together. Subtract that number from your total training day calorie intake.
Fourth, determine your fat intake in grams. Take your remaining calories, and divide that number by 9. The result is your fat intake in grams.
Just like that, you’ve got your macro breakdown for training days. Now, let’s move on to rest days…
To Determine Rest Day Calories:
First, determine your protein intake in both grams and calories. Multiply your bodyweight by 1.5 (this is the total grams of protein you eat). Multiply your result by 4 (this is the total number of calories that will come from those grams of protein).
Second, determine your carbohydrate intake in both grams and calories. Multiply your bodyweight by 0.35 (this is the total grams of carbs you eat). Multiply your result by 4 (this is the total number of calories that will come from those grams of carbs).
Third, determine how many calories remain. Add the calories from your protein and carbs together. Subtract that number from your total rest day calorie intake.
Fourth, determine your fat intake in grams. Take your remaining calories, and divide that number by 9. The result is your fat intake in grams.
And just like that, you’ve got your macros for your rest days.
So... given this, I got the following results (I had to fluctuate a little, since MFP only lets you go in increments of 5%
Training Day
Protein: 200g [40%]
Carbs: 200g [40%]
Fat: 44g [20%]
Rest Day
Protein: 182g [45%]
Carbs 61g [15%]
Fat: 72g [40%]
I've always been under the impression that you want to do 1.5% x LBM for your protein intake. I struggle to get far over 100g as it is-- 200g seems insane... But I could be wrong? If anyone has any opinions/inputs on the proper macro spreadout, that'd be great.
Also, I assume even though you're eating over maintenance on training days, you would still want to eat back your exercise calories. I don't burn that terribly much doing strength training, but in order to maintain the ~200 calorie surplus on training days, I would need to eat back the exercise calories. (Was just curious how you went about this, @Hornsby ) Not sure if they give you a surplus so that you're at maintenance after lifting, but didn't think that was the case.0 -
I don't have much to say but I'm a noob with basically the same goal and this is helpful.0
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
That's not entirely true. There is a video as part of the series specifically for upper body weight training:
http://www.fityouforlife.com/shaun-ts-deluxe-upper-body-weight-training-review/
Also almost every video has a circuit in it dedicated to upper body using body weight exercises. I would say Insanity is not an ideal program for building muscle but it's not specifically 100% cardio like you are claiming. It's actually pretty well rounded.
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
That's not entirely true. There is a video as part of the series specifically for upper body weight training:
http://www.fityouforlife.com/shaun-ts-deluxe-upper-body-weight-training-review/
Also almost every video has a circuit in it dedicated to upper body using body weight exercises. I would say Insanity is not an ideal program for building muscle but it's not specifically 100% cardio like you are claiming. It's actually pretty well rounded.
I never heard of the Deluxe Upper Body Weight Training program. That looks like a bonus and I wouldn't consider it part of the "Insanity" workout. I was talking about the standard Insanity workout and stand by that she isn't going to gain muscle doing the standard "Insanity" program.
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NekoneMeowMixx wrote: »@RGv2 -- I was serious, in the fact that I agree that it is harder for us to gain muscle due to the lack of testosterone. My "ice cream and sad movies" referenced our evil abundance of estrogen, and also points out my terrible sense of humor...
But no, I genuinely did appreciate you mentioning that, because seriously, people overlook that when they tell me I should be eating 2500 calories a day, and I'm like, errr-- how?! Hah
Then I'm also one with a 'terrible' sense of humor (as you say)! I thought it was hilarious! I wanted to add that we (women) have to enjoy ice cream and sad movies because we are sad that we can't just make the gains the men can (without major efforts)! When I curl up with any ice cream it's because I'm frustrated with something to do with my physique goals (yes, counter-intuitive, but I let myself do a mini-wallow). Meanwhile, the men I know who are lifters, just keep getting bigger each trip to the gym! LOL! Oh well, delicate little flowers and all.....
Anyway, thanks for the laugh this morning! 0 -
Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
That's not entirely true. There is a video as part of the series specifically for upper body weight training:
http://www.fityouforlife.com/shaun-ts-deluxe-upper-body-weight-training-review/
Also almost every video has a circuit in it dedicated to upper body using body weight exercises. I would say Insanity is not an ideal program for building muscle but it's not specifically 100% cardio like you are claiming. It's actually pretty well rounded.
I never heard of the Deluxe Upper Body Weight Training program. That looks like a bonus and I wouldn't consider it part of the "Insanity" workout. I was talking about the standard Insanity workout and stand by that she isn't going to gain muscle doing the standard "Insanity" program.
Fair enough. But I still think you are selling the program short. It's obvious you have never done it so probably shouldn't speak in definitive about it. If someone told me they wanted to add muscle I wouldn't directly suggest Insanity, it's not the ideal program for it. But the body weight circuits alone can be quite grueling. Stuff like level two drill circuits (burpee into 8 push ups, then 8 mountain climbers), the Max Conditioning video has some good upper body body weight circuits, and the Plyo are big leg muscle builders. Cardio Strength and Conditioning has upper body circuits. There is a good amount of pushups in all forms on just about every disc. Again not ideal, but not completely useless for muscle building either.
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Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
That's not entirely true. There is a video as part of the series specifically for upper body weight training:
http://www.fityouforlife.com/shaun-ts-deluxe-upper-body-weight-training-review/
Also almost every video has a circuit in it dedicated to upper body using body weight exercises. I would say Insanity is not an ideal program for building muscle but it's not specifically 100% cardio like you are claiming. It's actually pretty well rounded.
I never heard of the Deluxe Upper Body Weight Training program. That looks like a bonus and I wouldn't consider it part of the "Insanity" workout. I was talking about the standard Insanity workout and stand by that she isn't going to gain muscle doing the standard "Insanity" program.
Fair enough. But I still think you are selling the program short. It's obvious you have never done it so probably shouldn't speak in definitive about it. If someone told me they wanted to add muscle I wouldn't directly suggest Insanity, it's not the ideal program for it. But the body weight circuits alone can be quite grueling. Stuff like level two drill circuits (burpee into 8 push ups, then 8 mountain climbers), the Max Conditioning video has some good upper body body weight circuits, and the Plyo are big leg muscle builders. Cardio Strength and Conditioning has upper body circuits. There is a good amount of pushups in all forms on just about every disc. Again not ideal, but not completely useless for muscle building either.
Not completely useless for strength building....but yes, useless for muscle building.
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You are confusing muscle building with muscle conditioning. Building muscle means progress overload. If one is losing weight, the load is decreasing when doing body weight exercises UNLESS the leverage is change (IE going from 2 legged squats to one legged squats).Such awesome points everyone! I have a question... I always thought you could go on a calorie defecit and keep/build your muscle mass just by getting enough protein into your diet? I currently do Insanity and have a high caloric intake of 2300 (though I try to stay aroung 2100, cause ya know... ima girl and that many calories are scary) but I do not sacrifice protein. I always assumed (and that is based on research and threads like these) that once I am done toning and building the muscle from insanity I can go into cardio/weightloss and if I keep up the protein at about the 130g/day I am currently getting I would he able to keep the muscle and start to burn (with the help of my new muscle) the fat while mot losing muscle because of protein (and the occasional weight obviosuly) Is this a bunk strategy?
First issue with this is that Insanity is a cardio program. You aren't going to build muscle doing insanity, regardless of your calorie intake.
That's not entirely true. There is a video as part of the series specifically for upper body weight training:
http://www.fityouforlife.com/shaun-ts-deluxe-upper-body-weight-training-review/
Also almost every video has a circuit in it dedicated to upper body using body weight exercises. I would say Insanity is not an ideal program for building muscle but it's not specifically 100% cardio like you are claiming. It's actually pretty well rounded.
I never heard of the Deluxe Upper Body Weight Training program. That looks like a bonus and I wouldn't consider it part of the "Insanity" workout. I was talking about the standard Insanity workout and stand by that she isn't going to gain muscle doing the standard "Insanity" program.
Fair enough. But I still think you are selling the program short. It's obvious you have never done it so probably shouldn't speak in definitive about it. If someone told me they wanted to add muscle I wouldn't directly suggest Insanity, it's not the ideal program for it. But the body weight circuits alone can be quite grueling. Stuff like level two drill circuits (burpee into 8 push ups, then 8 mountain climbers), the Max Conditioning video has some good upper body body weight circuits, and the Plyo are big leg muscle builders. Cardio Strength and Conditioning has upper body circuits. There is a good amount of pushups in all forms on just about every disc. Again not ideal, but not completely useless for muscle building either.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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