What are your thoughts on braggs Apple cider vinegar?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Yep0 -
carliekitty wrote: »My neighbor swears by that. She knows people who lost tons of weight by drinking it. She swears she never gets sick to.....funny how she always has a cold and had the flu for two weeks....oh she's really overweight to! I know for a fact exercise and washing my hands have kept me illness free since I started taking care of myself three years ago.
What? You...you've....gotten in better shape and practice standard good hygiene? And you are healthier than in the past?
WITCHCRAFT, I TELL YOU. WITCHCRAFT.
I'm sorry, I don't trust your folk cures like "hand washing" and "exercise." Can those things get ghosts out of your house? NO.
I think I've made my point.0 -
I'd use it in my hair occasionally after baking soda when I need to clarify and in a glass of water as this seems to help with a skin condition i have. (I don't know or care how it works or if it's all in my head I just know the itching eases so leave my delusions be.) But I've never noticed it as an appetite suppressant.0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Are you saying there is a connection between consuming 2-4 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar per day and you not having a cold for ten years? I'm curious as to what you think that connection is.
The apple cider vinegar alkalinizes the body and creates an environment where viruses can't survive. Or so I've read, and going by my own experience it works.
Nope. Not possible. This was discussed about the alkaline water and someone put a link up to a website basically saying this wasn't possible.
Yes, and I could find you a dozen conflicting (and equally reputable) websites that will say it does work. The truth is there is no irrefutable medical evidence about it (there is a paper summing up what is known here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195546/ which basically states that more research is needed).
All I know is that I haven't had a cold for the past ten years, so you can put that down to coincidence if you like but I think it's more likely to be the vinegar. (:-)
Not saying the vinegar isn't magical, I was saying its not possible to change your body's pH levels.
This made me LOL
thank you for that! 0 -
My only experience with cider vinegar and food was with a lamb recipe I made a while back. I used WAY too much vinegar and it was the worst thing I've prepared so far. I forced myself to eat it because I wasn't going to let the money spent on the lamb go to waste.0
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yayamon3 wrote:I've gone from 3-5 sinus infections per year, not to mention several colds, to ZERO. That's all I need to know.Chrysalid wrote:I've gone from having numerous colds, and strep throat at least once a year, to none of the above in the past ten years
Yep.Tobias wrote:Post hoc ergo proctor hoc.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
To counter your anecdote...
I can't remember the last time (if ever) I had a sinus infection, and I think I might have had 1 cold last year, but I'm not sure, and I don't remember the last time before that I had one, and I don't think I've _ever_ had apple cider vinegar, unless it was an ingredient in a food I was eating & I didn't know about it.
(ETA: I was mistaken about the cold last year. That was an immune response to a vaccination, which only felt like a cold. If I didn't understand about how the immune system works, I would have thought the vaccination made me sick.)
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Nope. That's not how it works.Chrysalid wrote:Google "acid alkaline food list" or something similar, and you'll get at least a hundred different sources quoting the exact same information I supplied...
So are you a "No Brain"...? Or don't you know how to use Google?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
"The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim"
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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-prooflastspen wrote:It boosts your immune system
Citations to research, please?
Because this comes up with _no_ results
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=apple+cider+vinegar+immune
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Well, this is interesting... apparently eating lots of fruits raises blood & urine pH.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25491498
Effect of diet composition on acid-base balance in adolescents, young adults and elderly at rest and during exercise
"Diets rich in animal protein and cereal grains and deficient in vegetables and fruits may cause low-grade metabolic acidosis, which may impact exercise and health...
A high intake of vegetables and fruits increases blood and u-pH in young adults and elderly persons"
So again, your body is constantly trying to maintain a healthy pH level, hence the health problems from too much protein, and the higher urine pH when the food balance is reversed.
And a free full-text article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195546/
Is There Evidence That an Alkaline pH Diet Benefits Health?
"Human life requires a tightly controlled pH level in the serum of about 7.4 (a slightly alkaline range of 7.35 to 7.45) to survive ...
A low-carbohydrate high-protein diet with its increased acid load results in very little change in blood chemistry, and pH, but results in many changes in urinary chemistry... "
Thing is, when they talk about an alkaline diet, they mean specific fruits & vegetables which result in the _urine_ being more alkaline. (And there's a list in the article.) Sometimes it has a slight effect on blood pH, but other than chemo patients they don't mention any situation where that would be beneficial. Having more fruits & vegetables is helpful for other reasons, which are explained in depth, including that we need more of trace minerals which tend to be lacking in modern diets.
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To counter your anecdote...
I can't remember the last time (if ever) I had a sinus infection, and I think I might have had 1 cold last year, but I'm not sure, and I don't remember the last time before that I had one, and I don't think I've _ever_ had apple cider vinegar, unless it was an ingredient in a food I was eating & I didn't know about it.
(ETA: I was mistaken about the cold last year. That was an immune response to a vaccination, which only felt like a cold. If I didn't understand about how the immune system works, ould have thought the vaccination made me sick.
Oh sweet Christ on a cracker. Did you really just open the door for that discussion?
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PeachyPlum wrote: »
To counter your anecdote...
I can't remember the last time (if ever) I had a sinus infection, and I think I might have had 1 cold last year, but I'm not sure, and I don't remember the last time before that I had one, and I don't think I've _ever_ had apple cider vinegar, unless it was an ingredient in a food I was eating & I didn't know about it.
(ETA: I was mistaken about the cold last year. That was an immune response to a vaccination, which only felt like a cold. If I didn't understand about how the immune system works, ould have thought the vaccination made me sick.
Oh sweet Christ on a cracker. Did you really just open the door for that discussion?
It just gets better and better, doesn't it?0 -
Haven't been good about drinking it regularly, but it does help to drink some before beans if you get my drift (pun intended).
I make a wonderful skin toner with it (use on my face, neck, back), and no longer get cystic acne, my pores are tinisy tiny:
2oz Braggs Vinegar
2oz Witch Hazel
2oz Distilled Water
1 tsp Vegetable Glycerin
20 Drops of tea tree oil
10 Drops of Lemon Grass oil
10-15 Drops of Lavender oil
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Also, there's no way an acid (vinegar) can cause anything to be more alkaline (basic). Well, possibly you could count diluting the much stronger acid in your stomach to be making it more alkaline, but that's really stretching the definition, and a couple T of vinegar aren't going to have much of an effect against the amount of acid in your stomach.
"Note that a food's acid or alkaline forming tendency in the body has nothing to do with the actual pH of the food itself. For example, lemons are very acidic, however the end products they produce after digestion and assimilation are very alkaline so, lemons are alkaline forming in the body. Likewise, meat will test alkaline before digestion, but it leaves very acidic residue in the body so, like nearly all animal products, meat is very acid forming."
Do I hear an echo in here?
Did you get this from "Red Spirit Healing Energy"? Did you use their medium service or their ghost removal service?0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Yep, enjoy your next cold, y'all! And I will continue to enjoy my apple cider vinegar.
One of my good friends is HIV positive. How much should he drink to kill the virus? Please be specific, I notice that your recommended dosage varies by several tablespoons.0 -
I like the way it tastes, so I usually pour a bit into my water when Im drinking water. Its like lemon water, but I prefer the taste of vinegar to lemon.0
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I found a couple of interesting articles about this that might explain the magic of cider vinegar:
1. The pH Connection – Colds & Flu
Do you catch colds and flu frequently? Are you susceptible to canker sores, sensitive teeth and sore throat? Are you mentally tired after an hour of desk work?
All of these symptoms and more may be connected to an imbalance in the body’s pH, as an over-acidic condition. pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a fluid. Body pH is the key indicator of balance within the body’s internal fluids – including blood, urine, saliva, and the fluids between, as well as inside, the cells.
The body’s natural pH balance, which is slightly alkaline, must be maintained in order for us to feel our best and most energetic. “An alkaline body can absorb up to 20 times more oxygen than an acidic body.” These are the words of, Dr Otto Warburg, a Nobel Prize Winner for his work on respiratory enzymes and cancer. He also found that diseased bodies are acidic bodies, which repel oxygen and attract the overgrowth of disease-causing micro-organisms.
Our body’s acid-alkaline balance is a key component to overall good health and one of the most crucial ways to affect health status. Raising pH (to an alkaline state) increases the immune system’s ability to kill bacteria, concludes a study conducted at The Royal Free Hospital and School of Medicine in London.
The viruses and bacteria which cause bronchitis and colds thrive in an acidic environment. Keeping our pH in the slightly alkaline range of 6.8-7.2 can reduce the risk and lessen the severity of colds, sore throats and bouts of influenza.
Measuring the body’s pH using a small piece of specially-designed pH paper (available in Health Food shops) is the easiest and most economical way to measure your body’s pH. I have found that testing your urine first thing in the morning is a valuable indicator of whether your diet and supplementation program is providing enough alkaline minerals to neutralize the acids.
A consistent pH reading of between 6.4 and 7.4 shows a favourable acid-alkaline balance. If the pH is regularly below 6.4, this most likely indicates an acid condition known as acidosis and a low mineral reserve in the body fluids and tissues. Acidosis can impact immunity, digestion, bone & muscle strength, hormones, joint health, and the function of essential internal organs that handle stress including the adrenal glands, pituitary and hypothalamus.
Numerous studies * in the last 10 years have shown a strong relationship between food and low-grade acidosis. Our daily eating habits have a great effect on the body’s pH. The typical Western diet is an acid-forming diet, low in the valuable alkaline minerals. The good news is that by consuming a diet high in alkaline-forming foods such as dark leafy greens (see ALKALINE food chart pdf ), and adding extra alkaline minerals and superfoods, a change in your body’s pH balance can occur fairly quickly. Though it may take months to reduce tissue damage and restore optimal immune, nerve and organ function.
There are some alkaline powerfoods such as lemon, apple cider vinegar, aloe vera juice, chlorella, spirulina and other green-food powders, as well as citrate minerals of potassium, magnesium and calcium, that when added to alkaline water or spring water will help balance the body’s pH.
To increase infection protection: start your day with an alkalizing lemon and aloe vera juice drink; add green-food powder & leafy greens to your smoothies; consume 75-80% of your foods and beverages from the alkaline-forming foods chart; practice deep breathing for at least 1 minute, at least five times daily; and hug 5 people to survive and 10 people to thrive.
Once last tip, cold OTC medications are acid-forming, as are most medications. When feeling stressed or a cold coming on, make yourself a natural lemon, honey and ginger drink. Activities that are soothing and relaxing reduce stress and will help make us more alkaline.
Note: Anything that is stimulating can leave an acidic residue in the body; correspondingly, any activities which are calming and relaxing reduce stress and can make us more alkaline. So enjoy a hot soothing, alkaline drink (without the alcohol) and rest frequently to cure a cold or flu.
Frassetto L, et.al. (2001) Diet, Evolution and Aging. Eur.J.Nutr, 40:200-213
The Prime Cause and Prevention of Cancer. Dr Otto Warburg, Lecture delivered to Nobel Laureates on June 30, 1966 at Lindau, Lake Constance, Germany.
http://holistic-pharmacist.com/articles/the-ph-connection-colds-flu/
2. pH-Dependent Viruses
For over five years researchers at Meridian Institute have been looking into the connection between pH (acid/alkaline) balance and viral infection - a link noted by Edgar Cayce in several of his psychic readings. With the recent epidemic of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and continued concerns about common conditions such as colds and flu, our interest in this field has expanded to explore basic science and clinical projects to test the Cayce hypothesis. Here is an overview of what we have found so far and where we are headed. Some simple preventive measures will also be discussed.
Understanding Viruses
Viruses are extremely small parasitic life forms, the smallest living things on Earth. In essence, a virus is a minuscule pocket of protein that contains genetic material.
Although viruses can remain dormant outside a living body, they only become active when in contact with live tissue. Once a virus infects a cell by penetrating the cell membrane, it can either lay dormant (lysogenic infection) or begin reproducing itself (lytic infection - the more common pattern). When a cell becomes full of virus, it bursts releasing the virus to infect other host cells.
A wide variety of diseases are caused by viruses including the common cold, flu, warts, measles, hepatitis, herpes, smallpox, and AIDS. SARS is just the latest in a long list of viral parasites.
Unlike bacteria that can usually be effectively treated with antibiotics, viral infections are often unresponsive to modern medical treatment. If the virus causing a disease has been discovered, a serum may be developed to provide inoculation against that specific virus. The most common approach to virus protection is to avoid contamination by infected individuals.
Viral pH Dependency
Laboratory experiments (in vitro) have confirmed that many viruses require a mildly acidic environment to attack host cells. At Meridian Institute we are interested in determining exactly how this physiological fact manifests within the human body (in vivo). Understanding the role of pH balance in viral infections may provide preventive and therapeutic breakthroughs for dealing with epidemics including the recent outbreak of SARS.
To appreciate the relevance of pH for viral infection, let's first review some facts about acid/alkaline balance. The acid/alkaline continuum ranges from 0-14 with 7 as neutral. The lower end of the scale (below 7) is acid and above 7 is alkaline.
Acid/alkaline balance is extremely important to normal physiology. For example, the blood will maintain a slightly alkaline range of 7.35 to 7.45. Extended pH imbalances of any kind are not well tolerated by the body. The management of the pH factor is so important that the body's primary regulatory systems (especially breathing, circulation, and eliminations) closely regulate acid-alkaline balance in every cell and system.
Certain viruses (including the rhinoviruses and coronaviruses that are most often responsible for the common cold and influenza viruses that produce flu) infect host cells by fusion with cellular membranes at low pH. Thus they are classified as "pH-dependent viruses."
Drugs that increase intracellular pH (alkalinity within the cell) have been shown to decrease infectivity of pH-dependent viruses. Since such drugs can provoke negative side effects, the obvious question is whether more natural techniques can produce the same result.
Possible Relevance to SARS
The World Health Organization has concluded that SARS is produced by a new virulent strain of coronavirus. Specific research on the possible pH dependency of the SARS virus has not yet been done. It is well known that coronavirus infectivity is exquisitely sensitive to pH. For example, the MHV-A59 strain of coronavirus is quite stable at pH 6.0 (acidic) but becomes rapidly and irreversibly inactivated by brief treatment at pH 8.0 (alkaline). Human coronavirus strain 229E is maximally infective at pH 6.0. Infection of cells by murine coronavirus A59 at pH 6.0 (acidic) rather than pH 7.0 (neutral) yields a tenfold increase in the infectivity of the virus.
If the strain of coronavirus responsible for SARS shares the pH characteristics of these other coronaviruses that are pH-dependent, this could be a valuable clue to effective prevention and treatment strategies for this frightening epidemic. Perhaps keeping a balanced or slightly alkaline pH environment for the body's tissues can provide viral protection or enhanced healing for SARS and common viral agents that cause respiratory infections.
Edgar Cayce's Recommendations
Edgar Cayce affirmed the importance of pH balance with regard to common viruses that cause colds and flu. Cayce repeatedly insisted that such infectious agents do not thrive in an alkaline environment. When asked how to prevent colds, Cayce replied, "by keeping the body alkaline. Only in acids do colds attack the body." (3248-1)
Cayce recommended using litmus paper to test the pH of urine and saliva as an indication of the pH balance of the body. We now have more precise means for monitoring pH in the form of pH paper and digital pH meters.
As a practical preventive measure, Cayce's suggestions for alkalizing the body emphasized eating an abundance of fresh fruits and vegetables, especially salads: "... if an alkalinity is maintained in the system - especially with lettuce, carrots and celery, these in the blood supply will maintain such a condition as to immunize a person." (480-19) Consuming citrus fruit and juices was also a common alkalizing suggestion in the readings that addressed concerns about cold and flu infections.
Meridian Institute Research
We reported a preliminary study on dietary effects of urine pH in January 1999 (Vol 3 No 1). The study was done to test Edgar Cayce's recommendations for testing urine as a marker for systemic pH balance. Our conclusion was that following Cayce dietary recommendations of eating primarily alkaline-producing foods (such as fruits and vegetables) does indeed tend to alkalize the urine.
We have contacted leading researchers in the field of rhinovirus infection studies to make them aware of the possible role of acid/alkaline balance and seek feedback on how to do scientific studies to test the Cayce hypothesis in vivo - with human subjects. If it turns out that SARS is produced by a pH-dependent coronavirus, we will certainly make sure that the clinical researchers who do in vivo studies of viral infections are made aware of this potentially important factor.
Rhinovirus infection studies are done at several leading universities, usually to test the effectiveness of drugs that may help to prevent or relieve the symptoms of colds. Small amounts of solution containing rhinovirus are dropped into the noses of subjects to intentionally infect them under controlled conditions. Interestingly, about five to fifteen percent of subjects do not get colds even when the virus is carefully placed onto the nasal mucosa. Could it be that the pH of the resistant subject's nasal mucosa is alkaline (or neutral), preventing the rhinovirus from infecting the cells inside of the nose?
There have been several published studies on nasal mucosal pH with varying results. Some researchers have concluded that the pH of nasal secretions vary with sleep, rest, ingestion of food, emotional states, and menstrual cycles. Other scientists, using different technology, have failed to confirm these results. Clearly much work needs to be done in this area to establish consistent outcomes.
We have tested equipment from two of the leading companies that sell devices that can measure nasal pH and have learned that there is significant variability in the instruments, apart from the complexities of measuring pH in different people and within the same person over time.
The picture on page 1 shows a pH sensitive microelectrode that we are currently using to measure nasal mucosa pH. The device was developed for insertion through the nose and down into the esophagus in acid reflux patients. Since the system is already FDA approved for measuring pH in humans by insertion via the nasal cavity, it is ideally suited for our purposes. This particular model seems to be more sensitive and accurate than one we tested from another leading supplier of this type of instrument.
So far we have done a series of nasal mucosa pH measurements on two individuals. One of the notable outcomes from our preliminary efforts in this area is that psychological stress can have profound effects on nasal mucosa pH, causing a major drop (acidification) in pH. We will be doing more work with nasal mucosal pH with additional subjects to determine the possible relevance of this measure with regard to upper respiratory viral infection. We are also hoping to be able to do a collaborative study with established researchers who regularly conduct in vivo studies involving intentional infection with rhinovirus (the "common cold") to explore the possible connection between life-style factors (such as diet) and the infectivity of pH-dependent viruses.
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/newslet/Vol7-3/7-3.html0 -
But what I really want to know is: will ACV fix the massive bruise I just got on my forehead from slamming my head against my desk when I saw that wall of text from dubious sources?0
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Well good, it looks like we finally got lesson one: "cite your sources" mastered.
Lesson two: "Vetting your sources" to commence shortly.0 -
Edgar Cayce?!?!?!?! Oh dear. I didn't think it could get stranger.
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i've been drinking Apple Cider Vinegar off and on for nearly 3 years. It never supresses my appetite. But overall I do feel better and it suprisingly works wonders on G.E.R.D. symptoms0
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I just read the Edgar Cayce wiki page....
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But what I really want to know is: will ACV fix the massive bruise I just got on my forehead from slamming my head against my desk when I saw that wall of text from dubious sources?
The so-called "dubious" sources you refer to include a Nobel-prize winning doctor, and a professor from the UCSF School of Medicine with a published list of papers as long as your arm. But of course, why believe people like that when the "experts" on the my fitness pal forum say different!? Especially when they don't use funny pictures to prove their point like all of the experts here do...
(:-)
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »But what I really want to know is: will ACV fix the massive bruise I just got on my forehead from slamming my head against my desk when I saw that wall of text from dubious sources?
The so-called "dubious" sources you refer to include a Nobel-prize winning doctor, and a professor from the UCSF School of Medicine with a published list of papers as long as your arm. But of course, why believe people like that when the "experts" on the my fitness pal forum say different!? Especially when they don't use funny pictures to prove their point like all of the experts here do...
(:-)
No, they don't include those sources. The person who wrote the article you pulled used those sources for herself. I don't even know how she's using Warburg.
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »The so-called "dubious" sources you refer to include a Nobel-prize winning doctor, and a professor from the UCSF School of Medicine with a published list of papers as long as your arm. But of course, why believe people like that when the "experts" on the my fitness pal forum say different!? Especially when they don't use funny pictures to prove their point like all of the experts here do...
(:-)
And here I thought this thread had hit rock bottom. Edgar Cayce?
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And now let's sum up this thread for the benefit of those who don't wish to wade through the entire six pages:
Someone asked for opinions on apple cider vinegar.
Some people posted to say they thought it had improved their health, in various ways.
Some people said they tried it and didn't like it.
And a few people who had never tried it, took over the thread and attempted to make everyone who said they liked it feel that they were wrong, and posted lots of amusing animated pictures to prove how clever they were.
In the process it emerged that there is no definitive scientific research on the subject.
However, as apple cider vinegar costs approx £2 per bottle, some people, after reading all the professed benefits, might just be tempted to try it for themselves. If so, don't forget to use a straw!!0 -
a teaspoon of it in my green tea gives my green tea an apple taste! It's actually really good!0
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MKEgal wrote:I was mistaken about the cold last year. That was an immune response to a vaccination, which only felt like a cold. If I didn't understand about how the immune system works, I could have thought the vaccination made me sick.
:sigh: Sorry. I was trying to state it as a negative, saying that the vaccine did _not_ make me sick, and only people who don't understand how the immune system works would think so.PeachyPlum wrote:Oh sweet Christ on a cracker. Did you really just open the door for that discussion?
But I did get one bleep of an immune system response!
I am now so very, very immune to that strain (those strains?) of pneumonia...
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LOL! This one is going to be harder.ceoverturf wrote:Well good, it looks like we finally got lesson one: "cite your sources" mastered.
Lesson two: "Vetting your sources" to commence shortly.
When someone thinks that a woo site is validation of their statements, you've got a lot of education to do.
Even their science is obviously wrong... by definition.
http://holistic-pharmacist.com/articles/the-ph-connection-colds-flu/
"Keeping our pH in the slightly alkaline range of 6.8-7.2 can reduce the risk and lessen the severity of colds, sore throats and bouts of influenza."
Actually, that's right at neutral (7.0), which is lower (more acidic) than most blood (7.2-7.4, IIRC).
"Anything that is stimulating can leave an acidic residue in the body; correspondingly, any activities which are calming and relaxing reduce stress and can make us more alkaline."
(Of course this is said with no supporting evidence or citation; nothing in the one real science article she references says anything about this idea.)
And here's the one article she references:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Frassetto+L,+et.al.+(2001)+Diet,+Evolution++and++Aging.+Eur.J.Nutr,+40:200-213
It says that we are generally deficient in potassium, which allows the body to be more acidic than it should be, which (even at subclinical levels) appears to have negative health effects.
This is interesting. Wonder why the woo-page didn't mention this important finding?
"we found that plant food intake tended to be protective against hip fracture, and that hip fracture incidence among countries correlated inversely with the ratio of plant-to-animal food intake"
(More meat, more hip fractures; more non-meat foods, fewer hip fractures.)
But again, what the woo page is talking about (testing the pH of your urine) and what the real science article is talking about (metabolic acidosis or alkalosis) are very different.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »In the process it emerged that there is no definitive scientific research on the subject.
Remind me why I have to drink it myself to understand that there is no evidence it will make you immune to all viruses
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janejellyroll wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »In the process it emerged that there is no definitive scientific research on the subject.
Remind me why I have to drink it myself to understand that there is no evidence it will make you immune to all viruses
I am eating a salad dressed with the stuff as we speak.
I AM IMMORTAL NOW.0
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