Calorie counting doesn't work according to a new study. Apparently.
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I think Professor Spector needs to look harder at cause and effect. He asserts that eating nothing but McDonald's for 10 days caused a change in his son's gut bacteria, which caused him to gain weight. He completely ignores the amount of calories his son was overeating each day, and the amount of sodium he was consuming which were likely the real culprits of the weight gain. The gut bacteria changing was the effect of a poor nutritional diet, but there is nothing to show it was the cause of the weight gain. Keeping a harmony of good bacteria in your digestive system is definitely important to preventing diseases, but there is no evidence in his "study" that shows CICO isn't the only thing that matters for weight loss.0
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
I agree. I had equivalent issues and found out through a nutritionist, doctor, and great PTs that the only way to fight these issues is with a good diet first - a nutritional program. Not just eating less than what you expend - there's a real difference there.
CICO, metabolics, dietary formulation (program), and training (program). Wish I followed it when I was in my 20s more. I know I have much to look forward to knowing what I know now.
You can't outrun a bad diet - maybe if you are in your 20s, but try hitting 40 and beyond. CICO just exemplifies the rest. Calories In (what kind of calorie) and Calories Out (what are you doing). That's a loaded monster right there.
Yes I have as I have family with issues and I wanted to help them out...so I did some research.
As for the bolded...nutritionist pft...I can get an online course and get a certificate in a weekend, Doctors receive appx 24 hours of nutritional education through out medical school unless they specialize, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
And PT's well okay but they shouldn't be giving out nutritional advice as they are not RD's.
CICO...that's it...not the kinds of calories....quality is good but quantity is what leads to weight loss/gain.
The person I consulted had a Masters degree from an internationally-accredited university and over 10 years of success. All of them gave out the same advice in the end when you bottom-line it - you can't outrun a bad diet. Eat right and you will succeed - that's the long-term vision and it works. Works for me.
You can't outrun a bad diet. Plain and simple.
You can't outrun a bad diet means that the exercise you do won't burn enough calories to make all the extra calories you stuff into your face disappear.
And it doesn't matter if he's got a master's degree. Unless it's in nutrition he might as well be a plumber when it comes to nutrition.
@tedboosalis7 actually has the correct understanding of that statement.
He doesn't.
The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not. We can't jump from that and conclude that that means that a person can't run enough to overcome a high calorie count. If the runner doesn't simultaneously increase his consumption, he can reduce weight by increasing his running. He may be running more slowly than his competitors because of his bad nutritional choices, but he can overcome his calorie intake.
Bro, do you even Michael Phelps?
He is well known for eating crap like pizza, ice cream, pancakes, etc... In fact, in a interview I saw, he regularly eats pizza immediately after a swing to get energy.
So while the average person has to make more nutritionally conscience choices, if you are a proathlete or regularly engage in very high burning activities, you can outrun a bad diet. Heck, when I was in high school, it was a common occurrence for me to eat 3 big macs in one sitting, with a supersized coke. But I was playing ice hockey and soccer simultaneously.
As so called "junk food" goes, pizza is actually pretty healthy. Aside from the fact that they are usually loaded with sodium, pizzas have grains, meat, dairy, and vegetables. Sometimes, they even have fruit. For a person who is exercising and using a lot of sodium, even the large amount of sodium may not be a problem. I think a similar argument could be made for the Big Mac. But both are a little light on vegetables, so other meals should go heavy on fruits and vegetables to balance it out.
You can try to justify it whichever way you want, but typically, people see pizza, mcdonalds (since that was brought up in this thread a billion times), cookies, ice cream, etc... as "junk food.
Personally, I don't label foods as junk or not but rather nutrient dense/not. Know why? Because total diet context is what matters and unfortunately, too many people struggle with that fact.
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robbackatya wrote: »Calorie counting alone will not work long term. Most will gain their weight back is a fact. Same success rate as other diets.
To have long term success it has to be more than weighing , measuring and wearing fitbits around or you will gain your weight back.
Calorie counting alone WILL work long term. Most will gain their weight back because they STOP counting calories and eat whatever they want. Don't blame that on calorie counting. Blame it on people losing their willpower.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
I agree. I had equivalent issues and found out through a nutritionist, doctor, and great PTs that the only way to fight these issues is with a good diet first - a nutritional program. Not just eating less than what you expend - there's a real difference there.
CICO, metabolics, dietary formulation (program), and training (program). Wish I followed it when I was in my 20s more. I know I have much to look forward to knowing what I know now.
You can't outrun a bad diet - maybe if you are in your 20s, but try hitting 40 and beyond. CICO just exemplifies the rest. Calories In (what kind of calorie) and Calories Out (what are you doing). That's a loaded monster right there.
Yes I have as I have family with issues and I wanted to help them out...so I did some research.
As for the bolded...nutritionist pft...I can get an online course and get a certificate in a weekend, Doctors receive appx 24 hours of nutritional education through out medical school unless they specialize, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
And PT's well okay but they shouldn't be giving out nutritional advice as they are not RD's.
CICO...that's it...not the kinds of calories....quality is good but quantity is what leads to weight loss/gain.
The person I consulted had a Masters degree from an internationally-accredited university and over 10 years of success. All of them gave out the same advice in the end when you bottom-line it - you can't outrun a bad diet. Eat right and you will succeed - that's the long-term vision and it works. Works for me.
You can't outrun a bad diet. Plain and simple.
You can't outrun a bad diet means that the exercise you do won't burn enough calories to make all the extra calories you stuff into your face disappear.
And it doesn't matter if he's got a master's degree. Unless it's in nutrition he might as well be a plumber when it comes to nutrition.
@tedboosalis7 actually has the correct understanding of that statement.
He doesn't.
The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not. We can't jump from that and conclude that that means that a person can't run enough to overcome a high calorie count. If the runner doesn't simultaneously increase his consumption, he can reduce weight by increasing his running. He may be running more slowly than his competitors because of his bad nutritional choices, but he can overcome his calorie intake.
Bro, do you even Michael Phelps?
He is well known for eating crap like pizza, ice cream, pancakes, etc... In fact, in a interview I saw, he regularly eats pizza immediately after a swing to get energy.
So while the average person has to make more nutritionally conscience choices, if you are a proathlete or regularly engage in very high burning activities, you can outrun a bad diet. Heck, when I was in high school, it was a common occurrence for me to eat 3 big macs in one sitting, with a supersized coke. But I was playing ice hockey and soccer simultaneously.
As so called "junk food" goes, pizza is actually pretty healthy. Aside from the fact that they are usually loaded with sodium, pizzas have grains, meat, dairy, and vegetables. Sometimes, they even have fruit. For a person who is exercising and using a lot of sodium, even the large amount of sodium may not be a problem. I think a similar argument could be made for the Big Mac. But both are a little light on vegetables, so other meals should go heavy on fruits and vegetables to balance it out.
You can try to justify it whichever way you want, but typically, people see pizza, mcdonalds (since that was brought up in this thread a billion times), cookies, ice cream, etc... as "junk food.
Personally, I don't label foods as junk or not but rather nutrient dense/not. Know why? Because total diet context is what matters and unfortunately, too many people struggle with that fact.
I don't think I'm disagreeing with you.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
I agree. I had equivalent issues and found out through a nutritionist, doctor, and great PTs that the only way to fight these issues is with a good diet first - a nutritional program. Not just eating less than what you expend - there's a real difference there.
CICO, metabolics, dietary formulation (program), and training (program). Wish I followed it when I was in my 20s more. I know I have much to look forward to knowing what I know now.
You can't outrun a bad diet - maybe if you are in your 20s, but try hitting 40 and beyond. CICO just exemplifies the rest. Calories In (what kind of calorie) and Calories Out (what are you doing). That's a loaded monster right there.
Yes I have as I have family with issues and I wanted to help them out...so I did some research.
As for the bolded...nutritionist pft...I can get an online course and get a certificate in a weekend, Doctors receive appx 24 hours of nutritional education through out medical school unless they specialize, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
And PT's well okay but they shouldn't be giving out nutritional advice as they are not RD's.
CICO...that's it...not the kinds of calories....quality is good but quantity is what leads to weight loss/gain.
The person I consulted had a Masters degree from an internationally-accredited university and over 10 years of success. All of them gave out the same advice in the end when you bottom-line it - you can't outrun a bad diet. Eat right and you will succeed - that's the long-term vision and it works. Works for me.
You can't outrun a bad diet. Plain and simple.
You can't outrun a bad diet means that the exercise you do won't burn enough calories to make all the extra calories you stuff into your face disappear.
And it doesn't matter if he's got a master's degree. Unless it's in nutrition he might as well be a plumber when it comes to nutrition.
@tedboosalis7 actually has the correct understanding of that statement.
He doesn't.
The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not. We can't jump from that and conclude that that means that a person can't run enough to overcome a high calorie count. If the runner doesn't simultaneously increase his consumption, he can reduce weight by increasing his running. He may be running more slowly than his competitors because of his bad nutritional choices, but he can overcome his calorie intake.
Bro, do you even Michael Phelps?
He is well known for eating crap like pizza, ice cream, pancakes, etc... In fact, in a interview I saw, he regularly eats pizza immediately after a swing to get energy.
So while the average person has to make more nutritionally conscience choices, if you are a proathlete or regularly engage in very high burning activities, you can outrun a bad diet. Heck, when I was in high school, it was a common occurrence for me to eat 3 big macs in one sitting, with a supersized coke. But I was playing ice hockey and soccer simultaneously.
YES. I hate that saying. In high school I out swam a bad diet and lost 20 lbs in a few months of swim team, WITHOUT TRYING.0 -
Didn't read the whole thread but...
<---- This N-1 study says it does work...0 -
The media is a troll. Tune out and stop supporting it. The fact that everyone keeps reading/watching/following is why they keep making money doing what they do.0
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TimothyFish wrote: »I don't think I'm disagreeing with you.
Then your statement below...TimothhFish wrote:The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not." is false?
... is wrong. You can outrun a "bad" diet. Because people typically think bad = processed foods such as pizza and mcdonalds. There are many factors that affect the performance of one athlete. And as demonstrated by people like Michael Phelps, diet isn't as big of a factor.
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I do believe gut flora is important, but it certainly doesn't cancel out CICO.
I started taking a pro-biotic daily about a month ago. It has made my digestion easier, but it hasn't magically caused me to drop weight when I'm not in a deficit.
I wish it had. But wish in one hand...0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »The media is a troll. Tune out and stop supporting it. The fact that everyone keeps reading/watching/following is why they keep making money doing what they do.
Yeah but my entertainment would have to change to?
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My sister lost weight counting calories. My mother lost weight counting calories. My best friend lost weight counting calories. They all have kept it off for years. I have lost weight counting calories.
Maybe some day they find another magical way to lose weight but that doesn't mean counting calories doesn't work.0 -
It's amazing how much better my gut flora apparently got once I started eating at a deficit.0
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So finally just made my diary public. I don't eat quite enough (trying to get to maintenance but with my new habits I'm very full most of the time, and both mentally and physically can't bring myself to eat really small, calorie-dense foods as I tend to be hungry for too many calories when I do that), but even when I was just doing between 1200-1300/day I was fitting lots of "junk" in my diet and hitting most of my nutritional goals.
I have cake, pizza, pasta (REAL pasta not just konjac), taco bell (really, the only fast food I find worth it. My home made burgers taste better and tiny diced and baked crispy potatoes are tons better than fries IMHO), ice cream, etc, etc in there. But I also have lots and lots of veggies and lean meats. THIS is what people mean when they say they can eat junk and still lose weight and even be healthy.0 -
Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Why do you assume that no one actually had done their research and that you are far above the rest of us?
ILU
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Why do you assume that no one actually had done their research and that you are far above the rest of us?
ILU
Same.
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lilaclovebird wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
They did it for 30 days on Super Size Me...was interesting. They knew it would make him fat and raise his cholesterol. They DIDN'T know how badly it would damage his liver...
Yeah, Spurlock ate at a calorie surplus and gained weight-surprise surprise. On the other hand- Fat Head is a fun documentary, where a comedian eats only fast food and not only loses weight, but also improves his blood panels. Because shockingly, he ate at a calorie deficit and also bumped up his exercise which burned more calories. Go figure.0 -
This is further demonstrated by the twinkie experiment. And the results that can be concluded: obesity has a greater impact on blood panels as compared to type of diet and food influence.Sarasmaintaining wrote: »lilaclovebird wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
They did it for 30 days on Super Size Me...was interesting. They knew it would make him fat and raise his cholesterol. They DIDN'T know how badly it would damage his liver...
Yeah, Spurlock ate at a calorie surplus and gained weight-surprise surprise. On the other hand- Fat Head is a fun documentary, where a comedian eats only fast food and not only loses weight, but also improves his blood panels. Because shockingly, he ate at a calorie deficit and also bumped up his exercise.....which burned more calories, which created weight loss and better health. Go figure.
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ShareenaFulton wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »ShareenaFulton wrote: »Magic is pretty effective though. Have you ever seen a fat unicorn? I rest my case.
OMG!!! That's a pregnant unicorn. How can you not tell the difference?!?!??? That's so insulting!!! You're a horrible person and I'm reporting you to the Magical Animal Mistreatment Society (MAMS for short).
Lol. Love that you found a fat unicorn picture. Might make your internet search history a little weird though. Hope you're not at work.
Please stick around.
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0
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She's not fat. It's the perception that damn media has forced on her. She has a completely skewed sense of a healthy body now, especially when she has to compare herself to the unicorns in movies and magazines like this one...
I mean, just look at that unicorn. It's obviously been photoshopped. No unicorn could ever have legs that long and thin. Ugh, we think we've got it bad when it comes to body image. Lets just all take a moment and reflect on how much worse our magical equine friends have it.
(Now I'm the one with the dodgy internet history. Damn it!)
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She's not fat. It's the perception that damn media has forced on her. She has a completely skewed sense of a healthy body now, especially when she has to compare herself to the unicorns in movies and magazines like this one...
I mean, just look at that unicorn. It's obviously been photoshopped. No unicorn could ever have legs that long and thin. Ugh, we think we've got it bad when it comes to body image. Lets just all take a moment and reflect on how much worse our magical equine friends have it.
(Now I'm the one with the dodgy internet history. Damn it!)
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mamapeach910 wrote: »ShareenaFulton wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »ShareenaFulton wrote: »Magic is pretty effective though. Have you ever seen a fat unicorn? I rest my case.
OMG!!! That's a pregnant unicorn. How can you not tell the difference?!?!??? That's so insulting!!! You're a horrible person and I'm reporting you to the Magical Animal Mistreatment Society (MAMS for short).
Lol. Love that you found a fat unicorn picture. Might make your internet search history a little weird though. Hope you're not at work.
Please stick around.
^^This.
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Acceptance is the first step.0 -
tedboosalis7 wrote: »If you eat wrong, then you will be wrong.
This is actually a really bizarre and disordered-sounding thing to say.
I have mentioned before a book called Fat Loss Happens on Mondays. While I don't think this advice is particularly new or unique to the book, one thing I liked about it was the firm separation between how you eat (which could further or not further your goals) and who you are as a person. Beating yourself up because of how you eat, deciding that it makes you a good or bad person is not approaching it in a mature, logical fashion--as the book recommends, eat like an adult. That means both considering your goals and stuff like nutrition AND not making it into a moral/human worth issue. Someone who knows she's a perfectly good, lovable, competent person even if she eats in ways that she considers counterproductive sometimes is almost certainly going to be better able to make good decisions and eat well more often than someone who makes it into an issue of being good or bad or, as you say, being "wrong" or being defined by her eating choices.
Similar advice is given to people who struggle with emotional eating, often, or even binging. It makes total sense to me.
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All, as much as a like the unicorn and horse pic, please circle back on topic.
ps - I will delete all pictures going forward that aren't on topic.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Eat 1500 calories of cake for a year and come back and tell us how you really feel. The reason you won't is because you know that can't work. I double dare you.tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
Today's word is strawman.
I have the blood work and dropped weight to prove it. It's proven methodology. You are the strawman.
Ted, your bloodwork proves nothing. People who eat the foods you eschew in moderation also have fantastic bloodwork.
I eat a diet comprised mostly of foods that paleo eaters won't eat... dairy and legumes. I also throw in a little treat every night.
When I started on MFP, I had high cholesterol. Simply from losing 38 pounds? I've lowered it into normal range with good ratio.
The bottom line? Losing weight is what improved your blood work.
Yep-I lost almost 60lbs while still eating fast food a few times a week (and no salads-fries, Big Macs etc), and I also did NO exercise at all during my active weight loss phase. No only did the weight come off but my blood work improved-including my glucose number dropping from the pre-diabetic range back to the normal range. Where its stayed for two years now. I have excellent cholesterol numbers, my blood pressure is fantastic, I have no health issues at all and I look pretty decent in a two piece swim suit, for being an almost 37 yr old mom of three kids. It really was as simple as calories and math for me and I'm now successfully maintaining.
I'd actually love to do a year Mcds challenge, unfortunately I couldn't afford to do it. But, I do eat out 2-4 times a week already (and weeks like last week it was almost every day), and I have absolutely no problem maintaining my weight loss or continuing to be in good health. So yeah-if anyone wants to send me a years worth of Mcds gift cards I'll take the challenge
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TimothyFish wrote: »I don't think I'm disagreeing with you.
Then your statement below...TimothhFish wrote:The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not." is false?
... is wrong. You can outrun a "bad" diet. Because people typically think bad = processed foods such as pizza and mcdonalds. There are many factors that affect the performance of one athlete. And as demonstrated by people like Michael Phelps, diet isn't as big of a factor.
What I was disagreeing with in that statement was that "bad diet" as meant by the "You can't outrun a bad diet" assertion has anything to do with calories. "Bad diet" is talking about nutrition.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I don't think I'm disagreeing with you.
Then your statement below...TimothhFish wrote:The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not." is false?
... is wrong. You can outrun a "bad" diet. Because people typically think bad = processed foods such as pizza and mcdonalds. There are many factors that affect the performance of one athlete. And as demonstrated by people like Michael Phelps, diet isn't as big of a factor.
What I was disagreeing with in that statement was that "bad diet" as meant by the "You can't outrun a bad diet" assertion has anything to do with calories. "Bad diet" is talking about nutrition.
interpretation is subjective.
I always took that to mean you can exercise all you want but if you are not in a deficit you won't lose weight.0 -
His grant must have been running out. So NOW he has some BS theory to study.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I don't think I'm disagreeing with you.
Then your statement below...TimothhFish wrote:The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not." is false?
... is wrong. You can outrun a "bad" diet. Because people typically think bad = processed foods such as pizza and mcdonalds. There are many factors that affect the performance of one athlete. And as demonstrated by people like Michael Phelps, diet isn't as big of a factor.
What I was disagreeing with in that statement was that "bad diet" as meant by the "You can't outrun a bad diet" assertion has anything to do with calories. "Bad diet" is talking about nutrition.
interpretation is subjective.
I always took that to mean you can exercise all you want but if you are not in a deficit you won't lose weight.
Agreed. In fact, I rarely have ever seen it referenced in regards to nutrition but rather if your diet is crap, you won't lose weight.
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This discussion has been closed.
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