Calorie counting doesn't work according to a new study. Apparently.
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tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
You're being too ridiculous to even have a conversation with at this point.
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MonsoonStorm wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
Looky at this...a full day at McDonalds within Maitenance, hitting my Macros...and I get ice cream too...Yah. Notice that is 2 wraps cause I get hungry at night...
That's only because it's Canadian McDonalds.
Canadian calories are nicer to your body than American calories.
want me split it between US and Canada...I live close enough..I will add in a side of BK too...
Actually, for the sake of science I think you should carry out your experiment in Germany.
It's a commonly held belief that German calories are much more efficient. You could carry it out Mythbusters style.
As it so happens, that's where I live. I'd actually totally be up for it, but contrary to popular belief, eating nothing but McDonalds every day would be more expensive than my normal food intake.
That's why I'd like to ask Ted if he would be so generous as to finance this little experiment of his. Ted, I can send you my paypal info. I'm gonna need about 50 Euros extra per week. Thank you very much.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
Go eat 1500 calories of nothing but broccoli for a year and then let's compare each other's bloodwork then. Always need a control group. I'd prefer the year of nothing but McDonalds though.
Great. So, now we're calling eating nothing but broccoli a good diet?
I'd assume so because I never see you people strawmanning us to eat only broccoli for a year or only chicken breast or apples.
I'm not sure who "you people" are. I'm just saying that an improperly balanced diet is a bad diet, no matter whether it comes from eating fast food or from eating nothing but one vegetable.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
Looky at this...a full day at McDonalds within Maitenance, hitting my Macros...and I get ice cream too...Yah. Notice that is 2 wraps cause I get hungry at night...
That's only because it's Canadian McDonalds.
Canadian calories are nicer to your body than American calories.
want me split it between US and Canada...I live close enough..I will add in a side of BK too...
Actually, for the sake of science I think you should carry out your experiment in Germany.
It's a commonly held belief that German calories are much more efficient. You could carry it out Mythbusters style.
As it so happens, that's where I live.
got a sofa? after eating out 3-4x a day not sure I can afford a hotel....
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mamapeach910 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Eat 1500 calories of cake for a year and come back and tell us how you really feel. The reason you won't is because you know that can't work. I double dare you.tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
Today's word is strawman.
I have the blood work and dropped weight to prove it. It's proven methodology. You are the strawman.
Ted, your bloodwork proves nothing. People who eat the foods you eschew in moderation also have fantastic bloodwork.
I eat a diet comprised mostly of foods that paleo eaters won't eat... dairy and legumes. I also throw in a little treat every night.
When I started on MFP, I had high cholesterol. Simply from losing 38 pounds? I've lowered it into normal range with good ratio.
The bottom line? Losing weight is what improved your blood work.
^^Not necessarily the quality of calories.
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tedboosalis7 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Eat 1500 calories of cake for a year and come back and tell us how you really feel. The reason you won't is because you know that can't work. I double dare you.tedboosalis7 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
Oh Pu, dear Pu. Tell me how my gut bacteria can create energy out of nothing to make me fat when I'm not at a surplus.
Better yet - eat McDonalds ONLY for ONE year. No salads - just their core foods, burgers, fried foods - ONE year - and come back and tell us how you really feel - WITH blood work - before and after. I double dare you.
Today's word is strawman.
I have the blood work and dropped weight to prove it. It's proven methodology. You are the strawman.
Strawman and post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Who wants to play Logical Fallacy BINGO?
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TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
Go eat 1500 calories of nothing but broccoli for a year and then let's compare each other's bloodwork then. Always need a control group. I'd prefer the year of nothing but McDonalds though.
Great. So, now we're calling eating nothing but broccoli a good diet?
I'd assume so because I never see you people strawmanning us to eat only broccoli for a year or only chicken breast or apples.
I'm not sure who "you people" are. I'm just saying that an improperly balanced diet is a bad diet, no matter whether it comes from eating fast food or from eating nothing but one vegetable.
No, *kitten* way. Really? I never would have guessed!
Why is only fastfood the strawman then? Or sugar?
Why can't anyone say "Hey, you don't have to completely eliminate those kinds of foods." Without someone coming in and saying "Oh yeah? Well eat nothing except that for a year and see what happens!"?0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
Go eat 1500 calories of nothing but broccoli for a year and then let's compare each other's bloodwork then. Always need a control group. I'd prefer the year of nothing but McDonalds though.
Great. So, now we're calling eating nothing but broccoli a good diet?
I'd assume so because I never see you people strawmanning us to eat only broccoli for a year or only chicken breast or apples.
I'm not sure who "you people" are. I'm just saying that an improperly balanced diet is a bad diet, no matter whether it comes from eating fast food or from eating nothing but one vegetable.
"You people" is MFP community. Now you see how writing can confuse people.
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I have lost weight by counting calories so to say that calorie counting doesn't work is wrong - at least in the short term. In the long term, for some, it is hard to sustain.
While there may be exceptions, calorie counting without exercise is unlikely to work in the long term.
It's not just calories in the food but the quality of the food. We need a good proportion of protein and fiber in our diets. What is the right proportion is up for debate.
For me, these are the things I focus on:
1. Calorie counting
2. macro-nutrient balance (protein, fiber, fat, carbs)
3. Exercise
4. Mental state
The last one, mental state, is just an umbrella term I'm using here to cover all the strategies one would use to develop the habits of eating healthy and exercising regularly.
Most people are overweight because they have habits that cause them to be overweight. Calorie counting may just be a tactic to counter the habit of overeating.
I love calorie counting (and nutrient tracking) because it removes any question of why I'm gaining or losing weight. I've been doing this a long time and have talked to others who do the same. If someone maintains a calorie deficit they will lose weight every time. The hard part is maintaining the energy and focus to continue despite all the influences pulling a person to overeat and avoid exercise.
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Commenting without having read thru all the comments -
Research on the gut microbiome (much like research on epigenetics) is in its infancy. We simply don't know enough to be making any kind of recommendations. The fact is, there are more NON-human cells in our body than there are human ones. So the notion that out "gut bugs" influence our health (and quite possibly our weight) in a significant way is not a totally off-the-wall notion. That said, we don't know (yet) what the optimum gut microbiome looks like, nor do we know how to get there. Some foods seem beneficial (fermented foods, like yogurt, sauerkraut, kieifer, etc) and others appear more harmful (refined carbohydrates), but like I said, it's just too soon into this field of study to be making recommendations to the general public. Theories are great in the world of science and academia. But for practical applications in the real world, we need more concrete evidence of what to do in order to obtain "optimal" gut bacteria. Until then, the best advice is to do the best you can with the info you actually have - we know that calorie restriction (however you happen to go about it) and increased activity works. It's not fun. It's not glamorous. Its doesn't sell newspapers. But it will work. And until science gives us something more concrete to work with, everything else is just snake oil.0 -
Rupert Murdoch is basically the spawn of Satan. Best to avoid anything he touches these days.0
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Who, exactly, is arguing anything different? It's been said probably a billion times on here that weight loss depends on CICO, but a healthy set of CI is important for health. I wouldn't think that's so hard to grasp, but apparently it is.TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
Go eat 1500 calories of nothing but broccoli for a year and then let's compare each other's bloodwork then. Always need a control group. I'd prefer the year of nothing but McDonalds though.
Great. So, now we're calling eating nothing but broccoli a good diet?
I'd assume so because I never see you people strawmanning us to eat only broccoli for a year or only chicken breast or apples.
I'm not sure who "you people" are. I'm just saying that an improperly balanced diet is a bad diet, no matter whether it comes from eating fast food or from eating nothing but one vegetable.0 -
crazyjerseygirl wrote: »ShareenaFulton wrote: »It's hard to criticise what these doctors actually said when all you have to go on is a few lines pulled from what was a books worth of information. That seems to be how our journalists work now, in a bid to desperately draw any advertising profits they can from article clicks.
If a doctor was asked about weight loss and said, "The only way to lose weight is by reducing your calorie intake so that you burn more calories than you consume. You don't need to exercise to lose weight, however this is encouraged to build muscle and keep you healthy. There have also been some studies which show a correlation between the natural bacteria in the gut and peoples weight. Further studies are needed to understand the results. It has been shown however that, while calorie counting is effective for initial weightloss, it is shown to be less effective for continued loss and maintenance over a longer span of years."
From this the media can get so many headlines.
Doctor says "You don't need to exercise to lose weight".
Scientists have found miracle bacteria that will help you shed pounds.
Doctors say counting calories the worst way to diet.
That's how it works. Anything to reel them in.
This. SO MUCH this!
+ 1 gazillion
Same as "studies have shown that red wine is bad for your heart" and "studies have shown that red wine is good for your heart".
Different scientist, different method, different outcome.
With regards to this argument, you cant divorce calorie counting and eating a balanced diet, which is why we have macros. Just counting calories will let you lose weight but you may very well still be unhealthy. just eating a balanced diet is useless for losing weight if you are not eating at a calorie deficit. Exercise alone does not result in weight lose, however combined with a balanced diet at a calorie deficit it will show results.
I've lost 88 lbs in the last 20 months and the combination of exercise, balanced diet and calorie counting is what got me this far.
Oh and my wife has 3 masters degrees in completely unrelated fields therefore I am an expert.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »Commenting without having read thru all the comments -
Research on the gut microbiome (much like research on epigenetics) is in its infancy. We simply don't know enough to be making any kind of recommendations. The fact is, there are more NON-human cells in our body than there are human ones. So the notion that out "gut bugs" influence our health (and quite possibly our weight) in a significant way is not a totally off-the-wall notion. That said, we don't know (yet) what the optimum gut microbiome looks like, nor do we know how to get there. Some foods seem beneficial (fermented foods, like yogurt, sauerkraut, kieifer, etc) and others appear more harmful (refined carbohydrates), but like I said, it's just too soon into this field of study to be making recommendations to the general public. Theories are great in the world of science and academia. But for practical applications in the real world, we need more concrete evidence of what to do in order to obtain "optimal" gut bacteria. Until then, the best advice is to do the best you can with the info you actually have - we know that calorie restriction (however you happen to go about it) and increased activity works. It's not fun. It's not glamorous. Its doesn't sell newspapers. But it will work. And until science gives us something more concrete to work with, everything else is just snake oil.
Yup. Sick to death of the media jumping on preliminary speculative findings and then the internet gurus running away with it.
I predict the "gut flora diet" will be the next big thing. Everyone will be eating lacto-fermented veggies and yogurt to lose weight.
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Is The Daily mail the over the pond version of National Enquirer?0
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tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »
where in my post did I say I ate 1500 calories of cake?????
I was talking about calorie counting ….
Exactly my point. You didn't. That's the point I am making. Did you not see that above. I really really doubt it. You didn't.
But from now on - I want you to eat 1500 calories of cake/day for a year. That's it. You can't have anything else. I want to know what you will look and feel like after one year.
Nobody on here will do it. It's obvious why - if you did - you wouldn't be healthy and fit even with exercise. There would be things going wrong that would uproot your exercise regimen and your health.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
no one will do it because it is a ridiculous assertion. And I already pointed that I have no desire to eat the same thing every day for a year.
Now, you are just being intentionally obtuse.0 -
urgh, just forget it.0
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Gut flora... talk about majoring in the minors. Yes, flora might have some impact on weight gain, but to lose it is still CI<CO.
Since calorie counting isn't effective, apparently I lost 50lbs through magic.
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TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »Once again, negative comments, has anyone done any research on this subject?. Typical.
The title is misleading. Being a person who had severe digestive issues for 6-12 months. I did my research on the subject. Gut health is probably the most critical part for the human body to function properly.
I agree. I had equivalent issues and found out through a nutritionist, doctor, and great PTs that the only way to fight these issues is with a good diet first - a nutritional program. Not just eating less than what you expend - there's a real difference there.
CICO, metabolics, dietary formulation (program), and training (program). Wish I followed it when I was in my 20s more. I know I have much to look forward to knowing what I know now.
You can't outrun a bad diet - maybe if you are in your 20s, but try hitting 40 and beyond. CICO just exemplifies the rest. Calories In (what kind of calorie) and Calories Out (what are you doing). That's a loaded monster right there.
Yes I have as I have family with issues and I wanted to help them out...so I did some research.
As for the bolded...nutritionist pft...I can get an online course and get a certificate in a weekend, Doctors receive appx 24 hours of nutritional education through out medical school unless they specialize, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
And PT's well okay but they shouldn't be giving out nutritional advice as they are not RD's.
CICO...that's it...not the kinds of calories....quality is good but quantity is what leads to weight loss/gain.
The person I consulted had a Masters degree from an internationally-accredited university and over 10 years of success. All of them gave out the same advice in the end when you bottom-line it - you can't outrun a bad diet. Eat right and you will succeed - that's the long-term vision and it works. Works for me.
You can't outrun a bad diet. Plain and simple.
You can't outrun a bad diet means that the exercise you do won't burn enough calories to make all the extra calories you stuff into your face disappear.
And it doesn't matter if he's got a master's degree. Unless it's in nutrition he might as well be a plumber when it comes to nutrition.
@tedboosalis7 actually has the correct understanding of that statement.
He doesn't.
The statement actually deals with the fact that a runner who is making good nutritional choices will tend to out perform a runner who is not. We can't jump from that and conclude that that means that a person can't run enough to overcome a high calorie count. If the runner doesn't simultaneously increase his consumption, he can reduce weight by increasing his running. He may be running more slowly than his competitors because of his bad nutritional choices, but he can overcome his calorie intake.
Bro, do you even Michael Phelps?
He is well known for eating crap like pizza, ice cream, pancakes, etc... In fact, in a interview I saw, he regularly eats pizza immediately after a swing to get energy.
So while the average person has to make more nutritionally conscience choices, if you are a proathlete or regularly engage in very high burning activities, you can outrun a bad diet. Heck, when I was in high school, it was a common occurrence for me to eat 3 big macs in one sitting, with a supersized coke. But I was playing ice hockey and soccer simultaneously.0
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