Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)
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thankyou4thevenom wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »margaretlb4 wrote: »I'm talking about tone. It's not how I like to treat people, even when i don't agree with them. There's a nicer way to say things.
I also think that all calories are not created equal. 500 calories of kool aid do not make your stomach feel the same as 500 calories of healthier things.
Agreed and agreed. But there are quite a few people here who think all calories are created equal, so expect a lot of push back.
A calorie is a unit of energy. Of course all calories are created equal. Nutrition and satiation differ. People seem to confuse them with what a calorie is.
Thing is no they're not. A calorie is how much energy is it takes it raise the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1 degrees. It's seriously obvious to me that that's not how the human works. So while it's a great guide it's not the be all and end all of weight loss/gain.
@thankyou4thevenom Actually a calories is how much energy it takes to raise the temperature of 1 g (not 1kg) of water by 1 degree C. Other than that you're agreeing with what you've quoted
That's what I love about MFP when people vehemently disagree with a post by agreeing with it
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mamapeach910 wrote: »thankyou4thevenom wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »margaretlb4 wrote: »I'm talking about tone. It's not how I like to treat people, even when i don't agree with them. There's a nicer way to say things.
I also think that all calories are not created equal. 500 calories of kool aid do not make your stomach feel the same as 500 calories of healthier things.
Agreed and agreed. But there are quite a few people here who think all calories are created equal, so expect a lot of push back.
A calorie is a unit of energy. Of course all calories are created equal. Nutrition and satiation differ. People seem to confuse them with what a calorie is.
Thing is no they're not. A calorie is how much energy is it takes it raise the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1 degrees. It's seriously obvious to me that that's not how the human works. So while it's a great guide it's not the be all and end all of weight loss/gain.
You're right. The amount of calories absorbed by the body can differ depending on the food.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/on-food-labels-calorie-miscounts/?ref=health&_r=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22760558
The fact that our current method of assessing the caloric content of food needs an update (maybe... findings are preliminary at this point) does not mitigate the fact that the calories are still there. Whether a certain amount of almonds has 100 calories vs. 65 calories, if you compare them to something with a similar NET caloric value, the energy the human body gets from the food is the same.
She's not right.
We don't currently have a definite way of determining the net caloric value, we simply count them using the Atwater system (1 unit of energy=1 calorie). Basically, "a calorie is a calorie" is how they're determined now. And while a calorie is of course a calorie, how much is absorbed is what really counts.
Look, I'm counting calories right now, I eat varied things, it's working fine. But I absolutely I agree with her that it's not that simple (in response to a simplistic and incorrect assertion that basically a calorie is a calorie, they're all equal (for weight loss, period). It's just not true. How much it matters is a separate discussion.
This is a matter of perspective, and I'm sorry, it's still wrong to say that "a calorie is not a calorie".
If you want to say that we absorb less calories than currently counted from some foods than others due to flaws in the Atwater system, then say so.
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I didn't read the thread, but here's my 2 cents to the OP: real Ayurveda is completely different from its bastardised versions that have sprung up all over the world. Practitioners who deal with actual Ayurveda are scarce and not exactly well known. OP, please don't buy into these schemes. They are just using the newly hip name of Ayurveda so they can make money. These things have absolutely nothing to do with Ayurveda.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »thankyou4thevenom wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »margaretlb4 wrote: »I'm talking about tone. It's not how I like to treat people, even when i don't agree with them. There's a nicer way to say things.
I also think that all calories are not created equal. 500 calories of kool aid do not make your stomach feel the same as 500 calories of healthier things.
Agreed and agreed. But there are quite a few people here who think all calories are created equal, so expect a lot of push back.
A calorie is a unit of energy. Of course all calories are created equal. Nutrition and satiation differ. People seem to confuse them with what a calorie is.
Thing is no they're not. A calorie is how much energy is it takes it raise the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1 degrees. It's seriously obvious to me that that's not how the human works. So while it's a great guide it's not the be all and end all of weight loss/gain.
You're right. The amount of calories absorbed by the body can differ depending on the food.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/on-food-labels-calorie-miscounts/?ref=health&_r=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22760558
The fact that our current method of assessing the caloric content of food needs an update (maybe... findings are preliminary at this point) does not mitigate the fact that the calories are still there. Whether a certain amount of almonds has 100 calories vs. 65 calories, if you compare them to something with a similar NET caloric value, the energy the human body gets from the food is the same.
She's not right.
We don't currently have a definite way of determining the net caloric value, we simply count them using the Atwater system (1 unit of energy=1 calorie). Basically, "a calorie is a calorie" is how they're determined now. And while a calorie is of course a calorie, how much is absorbed is what really counts.
Look, I'm counting calories right now, I eat varied things, it's working fine. But I absolutely I agree with her that it's not that simple (in response to a simplistic and incorrect assertion that basically a calorie is a calorie, they're all equal (for weight loss, period). It's just not true. How much it matters is a separate discussion.
This is a matter of perspective, and I'm sorry, it's still wrong to say that "a calorie is not a calorie".
If you want to say that we absorb less calories than currently counted from some foods than others due to flaws in the Atwater system, then say so.
Ok.0 -
Majoring in the minors0
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I don't know why my whole response didn't show up, but it was basically -
I agree that a calorie is, of course, a calorie. I think the area of dispute was whether that's the whole story, or if it's a bit more complex once they hit our bodies.
I'm off to go blow past my calorie goal, happy Memorial Day!
P.s. Not saying it's neccesarily a major deal, just the way it is.0 -
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I don't know why my whole response didn't show up, but it was basically -
I agree that a calorie is, of course, a calorie. I think the area of dispute was whether that's the whole story, or if it's a bit more complex once they hit our bodies.
I'm off to go blow past my calorie goal, happy Memorial Day!
P.s. Not saying it's neccesarily a major deal, just the way it is.
We do agree. I'm just a bit... um... I'll go with uptight... about word use on some of these points, especially in a case like this where I don't think it's helpful to be imprecise.
Real knowledge is power when it comes to weight loss. Buzz phrases that come from attention-grabbing news article headlines aren't helpful.
I think it's pretty important in these forums to spell out exactly what we're talking about.
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What we are interested in is scientific support for what has been acknowledged widely as pseudo-science ...got any actual scientifically sound studies on any of the nutritional precepts and herbs and their efficacymamapeach910 wrote: »I'd also like scientific support for the body types... and what I see as an assertion that the body was out of homeostasis in the first place since it seems to be claiming to put it back into it.
I would love studies as well.margaretlb4 wrote: »Has anyone else worked with ayurvedic principles for weightloss? I am beginning to work with an ayurvedic nutritionist through an app called "Vida" - so far I'm really enjoying it. The main simple instruction she has given me is to think about ways to slow down in my life and also to sip lemon water throughout the day. She also has given me a digestive lassi recipe that i'm keen to try. And - and this is startling - she has looked at my diary for my last 8 or so pounds of weight loss and said that I might not be one of these people who DOESN'T need high protein for weight loss.
It also may depend on the week of my period. So this is interesting and without going nuts about it, I'm going to try and see what I should eat for the 1st through 4th weeks of my period (more or less protein that my body may crave...etc) and see what happens. Very curious to see if this helps. It sure makes sense when she talks about it, just paying attention intuitively to what your body wants....we'll see if it wants french fries.
I haven't seen an aryuvedic practitioner, but one of my professors was an aryuvedic doctor, so I've had some formal education in it. It is a 5000 year old system that is still widely used today. It is a simple, elegant, and logical system for looking at the body and getting it into homeostasis. Your practitioner most likely assessed your dosha, Kapha, Pitta, or Vata (we can be a combination of the three) and she is giving you nutrition and maybe also herbs based on your constitutional imbalances. It's a holistic approach and part of getting into balance is shedding unnecessary weight.
My dosha is predominantly Kapha. Kapha tends to be slow, calm, heavy, runs cold, tongue is pale and damp (did your practitioner look at your tongue?). Warming and moving herbs and foods help Kapha get into balance, such as cinnamon and ginger.
Holistic is fine and dandy, but you won't shed unnecessary weight unless you eat less calories than you burn. I'm sure people have gotten fat on this diet as well because it's science that you gain weight when you eat too much. Food type may make us feel better about ourselves, and we may have better nutrition, but these things are clearly secondary to weight loss.
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Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.0 -
[Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue.If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
Chronically eating too many calories.0 -
hollyrayburn wrote: »Chronically eating too many calories.
LOL! Yep. Pretty much.0 -
^ yes, but why is someone getting hunger signals when they don't need any more food?0
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Who's been used to what so long?
Well, science is catching up to some of the ancient wisdom out there. It doesn't sound like the OPs nutritionist is telling her to do any voodoo or any of the other things you mentioned.hollyrayburn wrote: »
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^ yes, but why is someone getting hunger signals when they don't need any more food?
Because what we interpret as hunger signals could actually be signals of all sorts of things: Boredom, habit, routine, loneliness, depression, happiness, comfort... pick an emotion on the spectrum and I'll find you someone who has learned to associate it to food.0 -
Sometimes it is emotional reasons (emotions have physiological reasons for existing), sometimes it is hormonal reasons (also rooted in physiology).0
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If someone goes to a practitioner for emotional eating, leading to overweight, the practitioner would be getting to the root cause by balancing the mental state. If you can identify and remedy whatever is causing the patient stress or depression, the overweight problem should resolve without attacking it directly. That is a holistic approach. It involves spending a good deal of time with the client. The OP's nutritionist spends an hour with her and is available for follow up emails. That is a pretty high level of care and I wouldn't automatically write her off.0
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@ miriamtob, thankyou4thevenom, Eudoxy:
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Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
This is not true. You can't be overfat without eating too much. But you could be overweight if a medical condition or medication causes severe inflammation or water retention.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
Let's see if I'm following you in regards to hedonic hunger.
Herbs... will resolve an emotional issue, which is caused by an underlying physiological imbalance? Is this what you're asserting?
WRT to set point theory?
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/5/1088.short
http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.full.pdf+html
Please cite some sources for herbs affecting an "imbalance" of leptin.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
This is not true. You can't be overfat without eating too much. But you could be overweight if a medical condition or medication causes severe inflammation or water retention.
And herbs will cure that?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
Let's see if I'm following you in regards to hedonic hunger.
Herbs... will resolve an emotional issue, which is caused by an underlying physiological imbalance? Is this what you're asserting?
WRT to set point theory?
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/5/1088.short
http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.full.pdf+html
Please cite some sources for herbs affecting an "imbalance" of leptin.
Your first study is almost 16 years old and doesn't disprove the set point theory. The second paper is really really old. All its references are from the 80s.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
This is not true. You can't be overfat without eating too much. But you could be overweight if a medical condition or medication causes severe inflammation or water retention.
And herbs will cure that?
I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility. I mean we are talking about an infinite number of hypthetical causes here.0
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