Ayurvedic nutrition for weight loss (and general sanity)
Replies
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs contain a slurry of chemicals, some of which have been identified by modern science as the "active constituents". The synergy of all the constituents, known active and unknown give the plants efficacy in the appropriate applications. It is very hit or miss to find the appropriate herbs by looking up your symptoms on the Internet. A capable practitioner would provide a comprehensive intake of 1-1.5 hours and after collecting the needed data on the client they would know which herbs, herbal preparation, and dosage to give. A follow-up would be necessary to *kitten* how the herbs are working and make needed adjustments to the formula and dosage. The herbal formula is part of a wholistic plan, which addresses diet and lifestyle. The plan is designed after getting the clients story (subjective), objective(observation), and gathering an assessment (where the imbalances are identified based on subjective and objective.mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
Let's see if I'm following you in regards to hedonic hunger.
Herbs... will resolve an emotional issue, which is caused by an underlying physiological imbalance? Is this what you're asserting?
WRT to set point theory?
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/5/1088.short
http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.full.pdf+html
Please cite some sources for herbs affecting an "imbalance" of leptin.
Your first study is almost 16 years old and doesn't disprove the set point theory. The second paper is really really old. All its references are from the 80s.
Well, here's a newer one. With a very thorough discussion of it. It uses "set point" to mean a body's "normal" healthy weight, the way they referred to the "set point" in the animals they first did the studies on.
It even addresses the leptin issue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
This is not true. You can't be overfat without eating too much. But you could be overweight if a medical condition or medication causes severe inflammation or water retention.
And herbs will cure that?
I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility. I mean we are talking about an infinite number of hypthetical causes here.
The types of diseases that will cause enough water retention to throw a normal weight person into the category of being overweight (remember, I stated that you can't be overweight without eating too much, and you came in with ... but fluid retention from medical conditions!) are life-threatening.
Herbs could treat that?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
This is not true. You can't be overfat without eating too much. But you could be overweight if a medical condition or medication causes severe inflammation or water retention.
And herbs will cure that?
I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility. I mean we are talking about an infinite number of hypthetical causes here.
The types of diseases that will cause enough water retention to throw a normal weight person into the category of being overweight (remember, I stated that you can't be overweight without eating too much, and you came in with ... but fluid retention from medical conditions!) are life-threatening.
Herbs could treat that?
Possibly. I've seen honey cure infection serious enough to cause 15% increase in body weight.
But, I never said herbs could cure anything. I was just correcting your incorrect statement.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
Let's see if I'm following you in regards to hedonic hunger.
Herbs... will resolve an emotional issue, which is caused by an underlying physiological imbalance? Is this what you're asserting?
WRT to set point theory?
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/5/1088.short
http://www.fasebj.org/content/4/15/3310.full.pdf+html
Please cite some sources for herbs affecting an "imbalance" of leptin.
Your first study is almost 16 years old and doesn't disprove the set point theory. The second paper is really really old. All its references are from the 80s.
Well, here's a newer one. With a very thorough discussion of it. It uses "set point" to mean a body's "normal" healthy weight, the way they referred to the "set point" in the animals they first did the studies on.
It even addresses the leptin issue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/
It's a lovely paper and I'm glad it touches on the exciting new field of scientific study,epidemiology, however it is inconclusive.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs contain a slurry of chemicals, some of which have been identified by modern science as the "active constituents". The synergy of all the constituents, known active and unknown give the plants efficacy in the appropriate applications. It is very hit or miss to find the appropriate herbs by looking up your symptoms on the Internet. A capable practitioner would provide a comprehensive intake of 1-1.5 hours and after collecting the needed data on the client they would know which herbs, herbal preparation, and dosage to give. A follow-up would be necessary to *kitten* how the herbs are working and make needed adjustments to the formula and dosage. The herbal formula is part of a wholistic plan, which addresses diet and lifestyle. The plan is designed after getting the clients story (subjective), objective(observation), and gathering an assessment (where the imbalances are identified based on subjective and objective.mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
What does this mean? This is what I'm interested in ...what are they identifying as the illness / ailment ...in order to diagnose for appropriate treatment. What are the imbalances that are being diagnosed and how?
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Aryuveda, TCM (traditional Chinese medicine), Western herbalism, etc... You may think of these things as "alternative" medicine, but they are long held traditions, which have their own healing model, which differs from allopathic medicine (the modality encompassing the western diagnoses you are accustomed to hearing about: cancer, bronchitis, congestive heart failure, etc...). Other healing traditions do not use these diagnoses. If someone comes into the office with an allopathic diagnosis, this gets taken into consideration in the subjective, but the client is considered holistically (looking at all the bodily systems even if they initially came in for a skin rash). After the objective part of the intake, the assessment (differential diagnosis) is something very different, if you are not familiar with the healing modality. TCM uses yin and yang and assess the qi (vital energy) of different organ meridians. Aryuveda uses the Tri-dosha: kapha, Pitta, Vatta. It takes years of study to know how to do an accurate assessment, just like it takes an allopathic doctor years to learn how diagnose diseases. It takes years to learn the medicinal actions of so many herbs. My PCP is an MD and also an acupuncturist, so she has both modalities in her tool bag to finding the best remedies for my imbalances. Accurate assessments lead to successful treatments. Finding a skilled "alternative" practitioner could be an astute move, if your current model of care is not working.mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs contain a slurry of chemicals, some of which have been identified by modern science as the "active constituents". The synergy of all the constituents, known active and unknown give the plants efficacy in the appropriate applications. It is very hit or miss to find the appropriate herbs by looking up your symptoms on the Internet. A capable practitioner would provide a comprehensive intake of 1-1.5 hours and after collecting the needed data on the client they would know which herbs, herbal preparation, and dosage to give. A follow-up would be necessary to *kitten* how the herbs are working and make needed adjustments to the formula and dosage. The herbal formula is part of a wholistic plan, which addresses diet and lifestyle. The plan is designed after getting the clients story (subjective), objective(observation), and gathering an assessment (where the imbalances are identified based on subjective and objective.mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
What does this mean? This is what I'm interested in ...what are they identifying as the illness / ailment ...in order to diagnose for appropriate treatment. What are the imbalances that are being diagnosed and how?
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I agree with youmargaretlb4 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »I had to stop at "sip lemon water throughout the day."
If I went any further, I'd probably go on a rampage.
Thank you MFP, for reminding me that people are self righteous and close-minded.
I hesitate to even bother writing anything but all calories are not created equal and there are plenty of things to do with digestion that aren't related to calories in and out.
@margaretlb4carakirkey wrote: »I think there's quite a bit to Ayruvedic- certainly paying more attention to what your body needs and being mindful. Also that aryuvedic isn't just diet- but a lifestyle. One of its basic principals are doshas- dominate body types. Many that are overweight, or have had a hard time losing weight tend to be Kapha type. Recommended for that type to avoid rich, heavy foods and instead have light, dry foods (eg rice, quinoa, salads). Calorie and portion control are key for this type. Interestingly, breakfast is really important for the other 2 types (Vata, Pitta) but not for Kapha type as that can result in consuming too many calories in the day.
OP - I'm interested in your program and the results you see from this.
Unfortunately I don't think you'll find many on the forums that are outspoken are very familiar with alternative medicine. So as you can see all sorts of posts will result from your inquiry.
I agree much with what the poster above shared... also would enjoy knowing how this is working for you as you continue on.
Be Well! 0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
Okay, first, the fact that something is researched (you pointed out ALL the research on two of the herbs) is meaningless as far as proving it has any merit:
http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf
We WERE discussing ayurvedic medicine and the way it "works". Not one of the studies you posted has anything to do with real life clinical trials in humans. The flu duration being shortened is not an "imbalance" in the body.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some herbs that work for as aids treating illness. Slippery elm bark is great for a sore throat, there's a nice tea I buy which has it in there and it's my favorite treatment for one.
But, that's not what we were talking about. This whole idea of the body being imbalanced is one that you'd need to show me... what's an imbalance? And how do the herbs balance it? Studies in humans to that effect, please.
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I cannot believe all of the negative comments. Also I watched a documentary called "Fed Up" and learned that a calorie is not just a calorie, it's all in how your body digests them. Anyway, if you feel this is helping (paying attention to your body is always a good thing if you ask me) then good for you. Hope it works for you, can't hurt anyway. Learning is never a waste.0
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I cannot believe all of the negative comments. Also I watched a documentary called "Fed Up" and learned that a calorie is not just a calorie, it's all in how your body digests them. Anyway, if you feel this is helping (paying attention to your body is always a good thing if you ask me) then good for you. Hope it works for you, can't hurt anyway. Learning is never a waste.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
Okay, first, the fact that something is researched (you pointed out ALL the research on two of the herbs) is meaningless as far as proving it has any merit:
http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf
We WERE discussing ayurvedic medicine and the way it "works". Not one of the studies you posted has anything to do with real life clinical trials in humans. The flu duration being shortened is not an "imbalance" in the body.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some herbs that work for as aids treating illness. Slippery elm bark is great for a sore throat, there's a nice tea I buy which has it in there and it's my favorite treatment for one.
But, that's not what we were talking about. This whole idea of the body being imbalanced is one that you'd need to show me... what's an imbalance? And how do the herbs balance it? Studies in humans to that effect, please.
Elderberry shortens the duration of the flu; flu and its accompanying symptoms throw the body out of balance. Ameliorating the symptoms by getting to the underlying cause brings the body closer to homeostasis. In aryuveda, you would not call it the flu, you'd call it Kapha Pitta because of all the phlem (Kapha) and the inflammation/fever (Pitta).0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
Okay, first, the fact that something is researched (you pointed out ALL the research on two of the herbs) is meaningless as far as proving it has any merit:
http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf
We WERE discussing ayurvedic medicine and the way it "works". Not one of the studies you posted has anything to do with real life clinical trials in humans. The flu duration being shortened is not an "imbalance" in the body.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some herbs that work for as aids treating illness. Slippery elm bark is great for a sore throat, there's a nice tea I buy which has it in there and it's my favorite treatment for one.
But, that's not what we were talking about. This whole idea of the body being imbalanced is one that you'd need to show me... what's an imbalance? And how do the herbs balance it? Studies in humans to that effect, please.
Elderberry shortens the duration of the flu; flu and its accompanying symptoms throw the body out of balance. Ameliorating the symptoms by getting to the underlying cause brings the body closer to homeostasis. In aryuveda, you would not call it the flu, you'd call it Kapha Pitta because of all the phlem (Kapha) and the inflammation/fever (Pitta).
The Woobecon, you've crossed it.
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/beyond-the-flu-shot-a-closer-look-at-the-alternatives/
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Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.0
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Ok, your link says the studies on elderberry are promising and the flu shot does not convey 100% immunity. Woohoo.
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I cannot believe all of the negative comments. Also I watched a documentary called "Fed Up" and learned that a calorie is not just a calorie, it's all in how your body digests them. Anyway, if you feel this is helping (paying attention to your body is always a good thing if you ask me) then good for you. Hope it works for you, can't hurt anyway. Learning is never a waste.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Overweight is often secondary to a more serious pathology, usually a chronic issue. If you can address and remedy the primary cause, the overweight will invariably be resolved. That is the beauty of a holistic approach like aryuveda; it gets to the root of the problem, rather than chasing around symptoms.
I also want to add to my initial statement. It is possible to be in optimum health and overweight. It is just often a visual indicator of an underlying problem.
You can't be overweight without eating too much.
Even if you have underlying issues, you still have to correct the fact that you simply shovel too much food into your face.
Please tell me how herbs correct the underlying issues.
Herbs help resolve imbalances in the body just as proper nutrition does, and even some pharmaceuticals.mamapeach910 wrote: »
Often is the key word here, not always, certainly not. Many obese people experience true hunger and malnutrition. The set point theory and the discovery of leptin sheds a lot of light on this fact.
What are these "imbalances" of which you speak? And how are they identified and monitored
If they are an actual illness and herbs help to resolve them there would be documentable proof, safety studies and double blind testing and the herbs would become medicine
There is. They are.
Please post them. Burden of proof and all that.
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
Okay, first, the fact that something is researched (you pointed out ALL the research on two of the herbs) is meaningless as far as proving it has any merit:
http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/cycle_effects_on_tips.pdf
We WERE discussing ayurvedic medicine and the way it "works". Not one of the studies you posted has anything to do with real life clinical trials in humans. The flu duration being shortened is not an "imbalance" in the body.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some herbs that work for as aids treating illness. Slippery elm bark is great for a sore throat, there's a nice tea I buy which has it in there and it's my favorite treatment for one.
But, that's not what we were talking about. This whole idea of the body being imbalanced is one that you'd need to show me... what's an imbalance? And how do the herbs balance it? Studies in humans to that effect, please.
Elderberry shortens the duration of the flu; flu and its accompanying symptoms throw the body out of balance. Ameliorating the symptoms by getting to the underlying cause brings the body closer to homeostasis. In aryuveda, you would not call it the flu, you'd call it Kapha Pitta because of all the phlem (Kapha) and the inflammation/fever (Pitta).
No, the study did not say that it got to the underlying cause. The study was equivocal when it came to defining just how it worked. It offered up a few suggestions and the in vitro evidence, that's it.
Please explain what "imbalance" means. You keep saying it, but you've yet to explain it.
What exactly is throwing the body out of homeostasis?
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Ok, your link says the studies on elderberry are promising and the flu shot does not convey 100% immunity. Woohoo.
You're sciencing wrong.
Preliminary findings don't prove your point. They merely show that maybe more research might be warranted. That's it.Elderberry: There’s some promising data with elderberry suggesting it can reduce flu-like symptoms, but these findings it needs to be confirmed in larger trials. We’ve seen this pattern with just about every herbal remedy: Promising preliminary data, followed by less impressive data when better trials are done. It would be nice to see further studies to evaluate its effectiveness.
Of course the flu vaccine isn't 100% effective, because they can only predict which strains might be prevalent, but prediction isn't always accurate.
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[/quote]
Well, since this is an aryuvedic thread, let's look up elderberry, trifala, and ashwaganda.
Studies exist and they look promising, plus these herbs have been used for 1000s of years and are still widely used today. As I said earlier, science is catching up.
Elderberry Extract Study:
http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.long
Triphala Study:
So many studies done on this ancient aryuvedic herbal formula:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=triphala
Triphala Exhibits Anti-Arthritic Effect by Ameliorating Bone and Cartilage Degradation in Adjuvant-Induced Arthritic Rats
Read More: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08820139.2015.1017047
Ashwaganda:
So many studies have been done on this herb:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=ashwaganda
Ashwaganda (withania somnifera)- a promising herb for neuroregenerative therapy for stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4392656/
[/quote]
With all due respect, did you actually look at the results?
As to the first study, the authors conclude that there needs to be more research done. This was 12 years ago. If there was an actual effect, then far better research would have been completed by now. If you look at figure one, it shows a clear effect on the second day. Either this is a miracle drug or there seems to be something wrong with the study. (Also the journal it is published in is 203 out of 256 with an impact factor of 1.095).
The links for the second and third show lists of research. With the majority of articles in journals with the words alternative and complementary in the titles, it is hard to take this seriously.0 -
Double post due to MFP error0
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Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.
This is a good question. Let's start by saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When looking at average lifespans, you need to take into consideration that infant mortality is factored in there, so people did not just drop dead at 35. Infant mortality rates dropped because Western Allopathic medicine is wonderful. Antibiotics have saved many lives, as have vaccinations. Allopathic medicine is second to none when it comes to acute situations. With that said, it is not perfect. Pharmaceuticals come with many side effects, many of which are worse than the problem they are trying to treat. For many chronic conditions, there is no cure in allopathy. Patients are often given a vague diagnosis like IBS when the problem is something more serious or sometimes told their symptoms are all in their head. Alternative therapies offer a different perspective on the human body and are grounded in science and steeped in tradition. The herbs used are especially powerful for prevention. A skilled practitioner can identify a problem before it becomes a pathology and counsel the client on nutrition, lifestyle, and herbs. It's not a path for those who just want a quick fix or magic bullet. There is no such thing and they may need to wait a long time for allopathic medicine to cure their chronic condition or find a vaccine. Healing takes work. You don't see an aryuvedic doctor for a broken leg. You see them if you've been having symptoms that haven't been resolved by allopathic medicine or if you don't want to take pharmaceuticals for whatever reason, or you just want preventative care. It is an ancient healing modality, but is by no means static. It evolves and advances just as allopathy does; practitioners keep up to date on scientific studies.0 -
Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.
This is a good question. Let's start by saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When looking at average lifespans, you need to take into consideration that infant mortality is factored in there, so people did not just drop dead at 35. Infant mortality rates dropped because Western Allopathic medicine is wonderful. Antibiotics have saved many lives, as have vaccinations. Allopathic medicine is second to none when it comes to acute situations. With that said, it is not perfect. Pharmaceuticals come with many side effects, many of which are worse than the problem they are trying to treat. For many chronic conditions, there is no cure in allopathy. Patients are often given a vague diagnosis like IBS when the problem is something more serious or sometimes told their symptoms are all in their head. Alternative therapies offer a different perspective on the human body and are grounded in science and steeped in tradition. The herbs used are especially powerful for prevention. A skilled practitioner can identify a problem before it becomes a pathology and counsel the client on nutrition, lifestyle, and herbs. It's not a path for those who just want a quick fix or magic bullet. There is no such thing and they may need to wait a long time for allopathic medicine to cure their chronic condition or find a vaccine. Healing takes work. You don't see an aryuvedic doctor for a broken leg. You see them if you've been having symptoms that haven't been resolved by allopathic medicine or if you don't want to take pharmaceuticals for whatever reason, or you just want preventative care. It is an ancient healing modality, but is by no means static. It evolves and advances just as allopathy does; practitioners keep up to date on scientific studies.
Please, some evidence, with sources, for chronic conditions ayurveda has cured.
0 -
Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.
This is a good question. Let's start by saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When looking at average lifespans, you need to take into consideration that infant mortality is factored in there, so people did not just drop dead at 35. Infant mortality rates dropped because Western Allopathic medicine is wonderful. Antibiotics have saved many lives, as have vaccinations. Allopathic medicine is second to none when it comes to acute situations. With that said, it is not perfect. Pharmaceuticals come with many side effects, many of which are worse than the problem they are trying to treat. For many chronic conditions, there is no cure in allopathy. Patients are often given a vague diagnosis like IBS when the problem is something more serious or sometimes told their symptoms are all in their head. Alternative therapies offer a different perspective on the human body and are grounded in science and steeped in tradition. The herbs used are especially powerful for prevention. A skilled practitioner can identify a problem before it becomes a pathology and counsel the client on nutrition, lifestyle, and herbs. It's not a path for those who just want a quick fix or magic bullet. There is no such thing and they may need to wait a long time for allopathic medicine to cure their chronic condition or find a vaccine. Healing takes work. You don't see an aryuvedic doctor for a broken leg. You see them if you've been having symptoms that haven't been resolved by allopathic medicine or if you don't want to take pharmaceuticals for whatever reason, or you just want preventative care. It is an ancient healing modality, but is by no means static. It evolves and advances just as allopathy does; practitioners keep up to date on scientific studies.
So it only works on vague illnesses, in vague ways, and not on anything serious? After 5000 years shouldn't it be more well defined and more effective? Western science based medicine has only been around a hundred years and it's already conquered/eradicated/cured many terminal illnesses. After 5000 years shouldn't alternative medicine have something to show for itself rather than studies showing it's no different than placebo???0 -
It is not for hunger. Lemon helps start or waken the body in the morning so it it is suggested to jumpstart your day or digestion. Also lemon water is said to be a fat flusher as well as doing other things.myfelinepal wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »History and Development of the Citrus Industry
...First Citrus Fruit to Reach Europe.—The citron (Citrus medica L.) was the first citrus fruit to come to the notice of Europeans and was for many years the only one known. It first attracted attention in Media, where it was then supposed to be indigenous. Apparently it soon spread into Persia, where it came to the attention of the Hebrews and the Greeks. Although it is not now considered to be indigenous to Media, the steps by which it was first brought there from its native habitat in India or Indo-China are not known.
...Orange Introduced into Australia in 1788.—Citrus was first planted in New South Wales by the colonists of the First Fleet under Captain Arthur Phillip, who sailed for Australia in 1787 with instructions to introduce plants and seeds at his discretion (Bowman, 1955). At Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where the expedition stopped for one month, the colonists purchased orange, lime, and lemon trees. On arrival at Port Jackson on January 26, 1788, the first work performed was the planting of the seeds and plants obtained in the voyage from England. According to Bowman (1955), oranges, limes and lemons were flourishing at the end of the first year of settlement.
Okay, you got me. I did too little research at 4am. But, the latest research suggests Australia as the origin if you search 'History, Global Distribution, and Nutritional Importance of Citrus Fruits'
However, I've never seen proof of lemons doing anything for hunger.
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Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.
This is a good question. Let's start by saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When looking at average lifespans, you need to take into consideration that infant mortality is factored in there, so people did not just drop dead at 35. Infant mortality rates dropped because Western Allopathic medicine is wonderful. Antibiotics have saved many lives, as have vaccinations. Allopathic medicine is second to none when it comes to acute situations. With that said, it is not perfect. Pharmaceuticals come with many side effects, many of which are worse than the problem they are trying to treat. For many chronic conditions, there is no cure in allopathy. Patients are often given a vague diagnosis like IBS when the problem is something more serious or sometimes told their symptoms are all in their head. Alternative therapies offer a different perspective on the human body and are grounded in science and steeped in tradition. The herbs used are especially powerful for prevention. A skilled practitioner can identify a problem before it becomes a pathology and counsel the client on nutrition, lifestyle, and herbs. It's not a path for those who just want a quick fix or magic bullet. There is no such thing and they may need to wait a long time for allopathic medicine to cure their chronic condition or find a vaccine. Healing takes work. You don't see an aryuvedic doctor for a broken leg. You see them if you've been having symptoms that haven't been resolved by allopathic medicine or if you don't want to take pharmaceuticals for whatever reason, or you just want preventative care. It is an ancient healing modality, but is by no means static. It evolves and advances just as allopathy does; practitioners keep up to date on scientific studies.
So it only works on vague illnesses, in vague ways, and not on anything serious? After 5000 years shouldn't it be more well defined and more effective? Western science based medicine has only been around a hundred years and it's already conquered/eradicated/cured many terminal illnesses. After 5000 years shouldn't alternative medicine have something to show for itself rather than studies showing it's no different than placebo???
But you also have to be able to throw in other buzzwords when describing what it does, like synergy, which, to be fair, is a very fun word.
The appeal to nature happening in this thread is amazing. It's woo, pure and simple. All of the things it does are only discussed in the most vague of terms because it doesn't actually do anything.
That being said, if it isn't harming you, then fine; do whatever. The problem is, and always has been, acting like it is the One True Way (TM).
0 -
Just wondering, if all this 5000 year old "ancient wisdom" was effective and worked, why did we need to advance to western science based medicine? I mean why bother if we already had something that worked? And why is it that life spans didn't increase until science based medicine? Why not just stick with acupuncture, ayurvedic, blood letting and leaches? Honestly curious.
This is a good question. Let's start by saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When looking at average lifespans, you need to take into consideration that infant mortality is factored in there, so people did not just drop dead at 35. Infant mortality rates dropped because Western Allopathic medicine is wonderful. Antibiotics have saved many lives, as have vaccinations. Allopathic medicine is second to none when it comes to acute situations. With that said, it is not perfect. Pharmaceuticals come with many side effects, many of which are worse than the problem they are trying to treat. For many chronic conditions, there is no cure in allopathy. Patients are often given a vague diagnosis like IBS when the problem is something more serious or sometimes told their symptoms are all in their head. Alternative therapies offer a different perspective on the human body and are grounded in science and steeped in tradition. The herbs used are especially powerful for prevention. A skilled practitioner can identify a problem before it becomes a pathology and counsel the client on nutrition, lifestyle, and herbs. It's not a path for those who just want a quick fix or magic bullet. There is no such thing and they may need to wait a long time for allopathic medicine to cure their chronic condition or find a vaccine. Healing takes work. You don't see an aryuvedic doctor for a broken leg. You see them if you've been having symptoms that haven't been resolved by allopathic medicine or if you don't want to take pharmaceuticals for whatever reason, or you just want preventative care. It is an ancient healing modality, but is by no means static. It evolves and advances just as allopathy does; practitioners keep up to date on scientific studies.
So it only works on vague illnesses, in vague ways, and not on anything serious? After 5000 years shouldn't it be more well defined and more effective? Western science based medicine has only been around a hundred years and it's already conquered/eradicated/cured many terminal illnesses. After 5000 years shouldn't alternative medicine have something to show for itself rather than studies showing it's no different than placebo???
But you also have to be able to throw in other buzzwords when describing what it does, like synergy, which, to be fair, is a very fun word.
The appeal to nature happening in this thread is amazing. It's woo, pure and simple. All of the things it does are only discussed in the most vague of terms because it doesn't actually do anything.
That being said, if it isn't harming you, then fine; do whatever. The problem is, and always has been, acting like it is the One True Way (TM).
Yup, though to be fair, I don't think anyone is acting as if it's the one true way.
The paying money for the phone consultation service is dubious, though. If it's something that the OP personally feels she gets her money's worth from? Well, that's up to her to decide.
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