Absence Before Marriage

Sarahonly

All this talk of "reputations happen, get over it" is stretching- perpetuating stereotypes by calling people sluts for sleeping with more than one person (or even NOT sleeping with people, as someone pointed out earlier) doesn't help. Just like every other stereotype and nasty word out there. Funny how the ones against women seem to linger so prominently in our culture.

JenAndSome

Yes, I read the whole thing. You said that you don't care if I have a slutty reputation.

That assumes there is such a thing as a slutty reputation for you to disregard.

My contention is that there is no such thing as a slut or a bad reputation. The idea that women should be classified according to their sexual activity is repugnant.

Uhhh...your contention is stupid. It aims to change the voiced opinion of much of the world. Good luck with that.

Not that I disagree with what you're saying...but all the same, good luck with that. As long as you're at it, you should campaign for men not being called slutty for being, you know, slutty. Just to keep things totally equal and non-offensive.

I'm with the Dutchman on this one.
Once a woman sleeps with a man (not her husband), her reputation is open for discussion whether she likes it or not.
She doesn't have a say if she is now referred to as "slutty".
All the "enlightened" thinking and "advances in equality" etc. will not change this.
The only way to prevent this deragatory label is to not sleep with him in the first place.

So, to clarify, according to you a girl who sleeps with even one person without being married she is a slut ?
I was called a slut (among other things) before I ever slept with anyone. I guess I got so used to it that it didn't really matter to me when I lost my virginity what people would say if they knew. I'm not saying that being called a slut caused me to act any certain way, but it definitely desensitized me to what others thought and the way I treated myself. A person's reputation isn't always what others say.

Reputation by definition is what someone else judges you to be, whether or not it be fair or accurate.
In a way you substantiated my point.
You were called a slut before you even slept with someone.
My point was that a guy may start spreading rumors and a bad reputation about you whether you thought you were acting like a slut or not.
I'm not saying it's fair, right or "modern" thinking.
I'm just saying it still exists.

But you said to prevent the derogatory label not to sleep with anyone. The label was given to me because I was a tomboy and played sports *gasp* with boys. What I'm saying is that labeling people in any such way is wrong. There is no excuse and no magical number of sexual partners that makes it okay to give a person that kind of reputation.

dayone987

Abstinence from intercourse and oral sex is the most effective way to avoid pregnancy and STIs

I first I disagreed, I thought there was anal also until I read the STI part. Oral can be effective unless there is some swallowing or someone is on their monthly cycle.

HPV (which can cause cancer) is transmitted through oral sex so it's not correct to say oral sex is a way to avoid STIs.

wineplease

All this talk of "reputations happen, get over it" is stretching- perpetuating stereotypes by calling people sluts for sleeping with more than one person (or even NOT sleeping with people, as someone pointed out earlier) doesn't help. Just like every other stereotype and nasty word out there. Funny how the ones against women seem to linger so prominently in our culture.

I haven't seen one person here say that reputations happen, so get over it. Just because we recognize something as being a reality, doesn't mean we condone it. And funny how YOU focused on reputations based on someone who sleeps with people when what I said was based on sexual activity (meaning that even those who don't have sex get reputations as well). I love social experiments like this.

StarChanger

Gotta test drive that car first, if the engine has too many miles on it just thank the salesman for the ride and move on to another vehicle.

Now see, THIS is the only thing that gets on my nerves. I HATE that men are encouraged to "sow their wild oats" before settling down with the right (preferably virginal??...but clearly not a "well experienced") woman. If a woman does the same, she's a slut.

If all the "good" girls are being abstinent and the good boys are "sowing oats"....either the good girls aren't so good, or there's a LOT of guys going to prostitutes and bringing THAT home to their new bride.....

emergencytennis

God, mustang, what are you saying? The only person who has any say regarding a woman's sex life is the lady herself.
Anyone who says differently is a sexist sob.What century are we in, again?

You and I are reading her comments, yet comprehending very differently. Her point was about reputations people can get. People get reputations based on sexual activity all the time. GASP. Yes, even in this century. Where have YOU been?

So, a woman's sex life is up for judgement. Who's judgement shall we take? The Taliban's? Oooh, no, they are baddies. Who's then? Shall we look at the sexual behaviour of the Inuit? The Pitjantjatjara?

You assume that the prevailing opinions on morality are just. We don't have to accept the status quo.

Mustang_Susie

Yes, I read the whole thing. You said that you don't care if I have a slutty reputation.

That assumes there is such a thing as a slutty reputation for you to disregard.

My contention is that there is no such thing as a slut or a bad reputation. The idea that women should be classified according to their sexual activity is repugnant.

Uhhh...your contention is stupid. It aims to change the voiced opinion of much of the world. Good luck with that.

Not that I disagree with what you're saying...but all the same, good luck with that. As long as you're at it, you should campaign for men not being called slutty for being, you know, slutty. Just to keep things totally equal and non-offensive.

I'm with the Dutchman on this one.
Once a woman sleeps with a man (not her husband), her reputation is open for discussion whether she likes it or not.
She doesn't have a say if she is now referred to as "slutty".
All the "enlightened" thinking and "advances in equality" etc. will not change this.
The only way to prevent this deragatory label is to not sleep with him in the first place.

So, to clarify, according to you a girl who sleeps with even one person without being married she is a slut ?
I was called a slut (among other things) before I ever slept with anyone. I guess I got so used to it that it didn't really matter to me when I lost my virginity what people would say if they knew. I'm not saying that being called a slut caused me to act any certain way, but it definitely desensitized me to what others thought and the way I treated myself. A person's reputation isn't always what others say.

Reputation by definition is what someone else judges you to be, whether or not it be fair or accurate.
In a way you substantiated my point.
You were called a slut before you even slept with someone.
My point was that a guy may start spreading rumors and a bad reputation about you whether you thought you were acting like a slut or not.
I'm not saying it's fair, right or "modern" thinking.
I'm just saying it still exists.

But you said to prevent the derogatory label not to sleep with anyone. The label was given to me because I was a tomboy and played sports *gasp* with boys. What I'm saying is that labeling people in any such way is wrong. There is no excuse and no magical number of sexual partners that makes it okay to give a person that kind of reputation.

It is wrong.

Sarahonly

Even if you don't agree with it, but not doing anything to counter it, not standing up for people who are called names based on stuff like this is perpetuating in my mind.

I don't even know what you're talking about when you say I'm focusing on reputations. I'm trying to say we need to stop using the word because it keeps the cycle going. I wasn't even referring to your post anyway :S

GnomeLove

I didn't. I was kind of a "free-spirit" when I was a teenager. But if you want to, I don't care.

Live and let live.

wineplease

So, a woman's sex life is up for judgement. Who's judgement shall we take? The Taliban's? Oooh, no, they are baddies. Who's then? Shall we look at the sexual behaviour of the Inuit? The Pitjantjatjara? You assume that the prevailing opinions on morality are just. We don't have to accept the status quo.

All actions are up for judgement. If you say that you never judge someone based on their actions, you're lying. I am not condoning reputations, especially harmful ones, but I am supporting Mustang_Susie's comment that they exist. You act like only religious people judge others and give others reputations. That's hilarious. I know plenty of people who don't believe in God who judge people.

saxmaniac

Now see, THIS is the only thing that gets on my nerves. I HATE that men are encouraged to "sow their wild oats" before settling down with the right (preferably virginal??...but clearly not a "well experienced") woman.

I hate to break it to you, but not all men are not encouraged to do this, like you think we are. Stop being so sexist and thinking all men are the same.

Exactly *zero* people encouraged me to sleep around. Zero parents, zero church elders, zero grandparents, zero uncles, zero friends, zero teachers. Zero. Did say zero enough?

You might want find out which men are brought up that way, and not assume we all are. It might be less than you think.

GnomeLove

I don't understand why people still think of sex as this dirty, immoral thing. Our bodies are designed for sex, physically and emotionally (we crave human touch and closeness). The old Christian leaders have really done a number on society. If you are safe and responsible, why should it matter?

wineplease

Even if you don't agree with it, but not doing anything to counter it, not standing up for people who are called names based on stuff like this is perpetuating in my mind.
I don't even know what you're talking about when you say I'm focusing on reputations. I'm trying to say we need to stop using the word because it keeps the cycle going. I wasn't even referring to your post anyway :S

I never use the word slut. I work at an all boys high school. I never allow the guys to use this word, and I actually give detentions to those who do. I always take a stand when I hear people use words of which I don't approve.

Sarahonly

Even if you don't agree with it, but not doing anything to counter it, not standing up for people who are called names based on stuff like this is perpetuating in my mind.
I don't even know what you're talking about when you say I'm focusing on reputations. I'm trying to say we need to stop using the word because it keeps the cycle going. I wasn't even referring to your post anyway :S

I never use the word slut. I work at an all boys high school. I never allow the guys to use this word, and I actually give detentions to those who do. I always take a stand when I hear people use words of which I don't approve.

Great then, I'm going to assume there was misunderstanding somewhere in our posts!

mister_universe

I don't understand why people still think of sex as this dirty, immoral thing. Our bodies are designed for sex, physically and emotionally (we crave human touch and closeness). The old Christian leaders have really done a number on society. If you are safe and responsible, why should it matter?

Not everybody who is christian does think that way. But there's a REAL LOUD minority who still do.

And safe and responsible isn't the first thing that comes to mind with sex. :laugh:

GnomeLove

I don't understand why people still think of sex as this dirty, immoral thing. Our bodies are designed for sex, physically and emotionally (we crave human touch and closeness). The old Christian leaders have really done a number on society. If you are safe and responsible, why should it matter?

Not everybody who is christian does think that way. But there's a REAL LOUD minority who still do.

And safe and responsible isn't the first thing that comes to mind with sex. :laugh:

As in, not mixing your love juices with every hobo or hobette you find at the local truck stop...

emergencytennis

So, a woman's sex life is up for judgement. Who's judgement shall we take? The Taliban's? Oooh, no, they are baddies. Who's then? Shall we look at the sexual behaviour of the Inuit? The Pitjantjatjara? You assume that the prevailing opinions on morality are just. We don't have to accept the status quo.

All actions are up for judgement. If you say that you never judge someone based on their actions, you're lying. I am not condoning reputations, especially harmful ones, but I am supporting Mustang_Susie's comment that they exist. You act like only religious people judge others and give others reputations. That's hilarious. I know plenty of people who don't believe in God who judge people.

Of course I judge people according to their actions. Murderers, bad. People who don't pick up their dog's poop, bad. I don't judge people by who they sleep with, and I don't think anyone should. People who judge others according to who they sleep with, bad.

wineplease

I don't understand why people still think of sex as this dirty, immoral thing.

Speaking from the Church's position, sex itself is not immoral. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. There are plenty of Christians who do not follow all of the Church's teachings, not just on sex. Just because someone chooses to abstain from sex prior to marriage, does not mean they believe sex is a "dirty, immoral thing".

wineplease

Of course I judge people according to their actions. Murderers, bad. People who don't pick up their dog's poop, bad. I don't judge people by who they sleep with, and I don't think anyone should. People who judge others according to who they sleep with, bad.

Who are you to tell others what to judge and what not to judge? Maybe someone else would come into this thread saying they don't think it's bad not to pick up your dog's poop.

dodihere

Personal issue. Never discuss religion, politics or child rearing unless you want a good argument. I put this in the lines of religion.