Say no to sugar
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Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
Do you honestly feel that is a clear and accurate description of the OP?
Did you get a clear and accurate statement that her joke had to be referring to OP?
Apparently not, since I totally missed any humor.
not surprising0 -
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stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
Yeah ... I might be wrong as I said I don't know much about it and a quick scan on google does not an educated person make
It does say that the most overwhelming factor is family history
and I did read that sugar is not causative
I was just interested
Sugar may not be causative. Many studies have failed to prove it as a cause. Either it is not a cause, or it works so slowly that it's nearly impossible to prove anything other than correlation. But whatever the cause, once you are pre-diabetic or diabetic, sugar is a major factor in controlling the condition. And since the OP stated she does have the condition, I'm not sure why everyone is picking on her post.
Because she is inferring that in order to be healthy, all of us, even those not at risk for diabetes, need to give up sugar.
I think you mean you are inferring. Though honestly, since she mentioned her medical condition why you would infer that meant anyone without the condition would also need to follow her doctor's advice is a mystery to me.
She didn't mention that she has a medical condition.
She said her doctor told her to quit eating sugar so she doesn't end up being a diabetic.
At no point has she stated she's pre-diabetic or insulin resistant or anything.
Mostly because she didn't come back after her OP.
Went back and read the OP and you are correct. I guess I inferred that she was pre-diabetic based on the advice from the doctor, and possibly the first response.-1 -
No she clearly stated, "We can do it...lets get healthy."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
Yeah ... I might be wrong as I said I don't know much about it and a quick scan on google does not an educated person make
It does say that the most overwhelming factor is family history
and I did read that sugar is not causative
I was just interested
Sugar may not be causative. Many studies have failed to prove it as a cause. Either it is not a cause, or it works so slowly that it's nearly impossible to prove anything other than correlation. But whatever the cause, once you are pre-diabetic or diabetic, sugar is a major factor in controlling the condition. And since the OP stated she does have the condition, I'm not sure why everyone is picking on her post.
Because she is inferring that in order to be healthy, all of us, even those not at risk for diabetes, need to give up sugar.
I think you mean you are inferring. Though honestly, since she mentioned her medical condition why you would infer that meant anyone without the condition would also need to follow her doctor's advice is a mystery to me.
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....It was for me to share about my body. I'm aware of sugar doesn't causes diabetes, but it aids if you are eating unhealthy foods. Yall can't tell me anything...I'm educate to know how and what diabetes are and what's not. I went to school for public health......so I really don't need you guys negative comments about my life.......I was only expressing about me and how I feel after leaving sugar alone (added)......don't get on here post foolishness and acting like you guys know so much. This was my happy post and How I feel after removing the added sugars that I have been using in my life........my happy life moments. Please kiss off and don't leave you all negative comments or acting like you Doctor....like you know so much.......for anyone who had something nice to say....thank you for reading my happy moment.0
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No she clearly stated, "We can do it...lets get healthy."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
Yeah ... I might be wrong as I said I don't know much about it and a quick scan on google does not an educated person make
It does say that the most overwhelming factor is family history
and I did read that sugar is not causative
I was just interested
Sugar may not be causative. Many studies have failed to prove it as a cause. Either it is not a cause, or it works so slowly that it's nearly impossible to prove anything other than correlation. But whatever the cause, once you are pre-diabetic or diabetic, sugar is a major factor in controlling the condition. And since the OP stated she does have the condition, I'm not sure why everyone is picking on her post.
Because she is inferring that in order to be healthy, all of us, even those not at risk for diabetes, need to give up sugar.
I think you mean you are inferring. Though honestly, since she mentioned her medical condition why you would infer that meant anyone without the condition would also need to follow her doctor's advice is a mystery to me.
Oh the horror!0 -
You're afraid?Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No she clearly stated, "We can do it...lets get healthy."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
Yeah ... I might be wrong as I said I don't know much about it and a quick scan on google does not an educated person make
It does say that the most overwhelming factor is family history
and I did read that sugar is not causative
I was just interested
Sugar may not be causative. Many studies have failed to prove it as a cause. Either it is not a cause, or it works so slowly that it's nearly impossible to prove anything other than correlation. But whatever the cause, once you are pre-diabetic or diabetic, sugar is a major factor in controlling the condition. And since the OP stated she does have the condition, I'm not sure why everyone is picking on her post.
Because she is inferring that in order to be healthy, all of us, even those not at risk for diabetes, need to give up sugar.
I think you mean you are inferring. Though honestly, since she mentioned her medical condition why you would infer that meant anyone without the condition would also need to follow her doctor's advice is a mystery to me.
Oh the horror!
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Chantell1979 wrote: »Hi everyone......today, is a week from me not using sugar!! My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks. I feel alive and refreshed. From a week today...I haven't ate or drank any added sugars...only if in fruits or good carbs. My body feels amazing. No more sluggishness, I'm not tired or having the morning headaches. We can do it...lets get healthy. Feel free to share or add me. Thanks!!
Chantell that is awesome and do not look back. I did it 8 months ago when in very poor health at age 63. In 30 days my pain level had dropped so much I no longer needed any meds to manage it. I am only down 25 pounds off of sugar but it looks more like a 50 pound lost. Plus I feel better than I have in 40 years.
It is not just Type 2 diabetes you may prevent but perhaps heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer's, etc. With your change it can help others around you when they see your health gains.
Please could you post the source for sugar CAUSING heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer
not the ones that talk about increased risk factors due to being overweight and losing weight ameliorating the risk factor
but the actual source for a causative relationship here
That would be interesting to read
Rabbit this is a Google results base on your own words in your post. Thanks for your question.
https://google.com/search?q=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&oq=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Chantell1979 wrote: »Hi everyone......today, is a week from me not using sugar!! My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks. I feel alive and refreshed. From a week today...I haven't ate or drank any added sugars...only if in fruits or good carbs. My body feels amazing. No more sluggishness, I'm not tired or having the morning headaches. We can do it...lets get healthy. Feel free to share or add me. Thanks!!
Chantell that is awesome and do not look back. I did it 8 months ago when in very poor health at age 63. In 30 days my pain level had dropped so much I no longer needed any meds to manage it. I am only down 25 pounds off of sugar but it looks more like a 50 pound lost. Plus I feel better than I have in 40 years.
It is not just Type 2 diabetes you may prevent but perhaps heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer's, etc. With your change it can help others around you when they see your health gains.
Please could you post the source for sugar CAUSING heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer
not the ones that talk about increased risk factors due to being overweight and losing weight ameliorating the risk factor
but the actual source for a causative relationship here
That would be interesting to read
Rabbit this is a Google results base on your own words in your post. Thanks for your question.
https://google.com/search?q=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&oq=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8
And here's a google result based on the words in your post. Not sure why either are particularly relevant or helpful
https://www.google.com/search?q=grumpy+cat+sugar&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=631&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIjPbltKuFxgIV1ymICh2WnwIO#tbm=isch&q=Rabbit+this+is+a+Google+results+base+on+your+own+words+in+your+post.+Thanks+for+your+question.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No she clearly stated, "We can do it...lets get healthy."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
Yeah ... I might be wrong as I said I don't know much about it and a quick scan on google does not an educated person make
It does say that the most overwhelming factor is family history
and I did read that sugar is not causative
I was just interested
Sugar may not be causative. Many studies have failed to prove it as a cause. Either it is not a cause, or it works so slowly that it's nearly impossible to prove anything other than correlation. But whatever the cause, once you are pre-diabetic or diabetic, sugar is a major factor in controlling the condition. And since the OP stated she does have the condition, I'm not sure why everyone is picking on her post.
Because she is inferring that in order to be healthy, all of us, even those not at risk for diabetes, need to give up sugar.
I think you mean you are inferring. Though honestly, since she mentioned her medical condition why you would infer that meant anyone without the condition would also need to follow her doctor's advice is a mystery to me.
Oh the horror!
Yes the horror. She is implying (I don't believe in a scandalous way) that one needs to remove added sugars to be healthy and that if one does not they will somehow not be healthy. It is bad information based on bad ideas...
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Chantell1979 wrote: »Hi everyone......today, is a week from me not using sugar!! My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks. I feel alive and refreshed. From a week today...I haven't ate or drank any added sugars...only if in fruits or good carbs. My body feels amazing. No more sluggishness, I'm not tired or having the morning headaches. We can do it...lets get healthy. Feel free to share or add me. Thanks!!
Chantell that is awesome and do not look back. I did it 8 months ago when in very poor health at age 63. In 30 days my pain level had dropped so much I no longer needed any meds to manage it. I am only down 25 pounds off of sugar but it looks more like a 50 pound lost. Plus I feel better than I have in 40 years.
It is not just Type 2 diabetes you may prevent but perhaps heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer's, etc. With your change it can help others around you when they see your health gains.
Please could you post the source for sugar CAUSING heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer
not the ones that talk about increased risk factors due to being overweight and losing weight ameliorating the risk factor
but the actual source for a causative relationship here
That would be interesting to read
Rabbit this is a Google results base on your own words in your post. Thanks for your question.
https://google.com/search?q=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&oq=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8
and here are the google results that prove that aliens are living among us right now...
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=aliens+among+us&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4TSNO_enUS492US492&q=aliens+among+us&gs_l=hp....0.0.0.1641...........0.0 -
Chantell1979 wrote: »....It was for me to share about my body. I'm aware of sugar doesn't causes diabetes, but it aids if you are eating unhealthy foods. Yall can't tell me anything...I'm educate to know how and what diabetes are and what's not. I went to school for public health......so I really don't need you guys negative comments about my life.......I was only expressing about me and how I feel after leaving sugar alone (added)......don't get on here post foolishness and acting like you guys know so much. This was my happy post and How I feel after removing the added sugars that I have been using in my life........my happy life moments. Please kiss off and don't leave you all negative comments or acting like you Doctor....like you know so much.......for anyone who had something nice to say....thank you for reading my happy moment.
funny, you said this in your OP
...My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks...
but now you say that sugar won't make you a diabetic?
Plus, your OP title is "say no to sugar" which is an implication that everyone should do that.0 -
I know it's not for everyone, but I'm insulin resistant and cutting carbs down to 30g a day as well as calories has been working for me. I never had any of the other symptoms-headaches, feeling tired, etc, so I can't attest to those benefits. But I think the fact that I am restricting carbs has lead me to chose better choices since most junk food is high carb.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Remember when Nancy Reagan was on Diff'rent Strokes and telling Arnold and Willis and all the kids (Kimberly might have been off at boarding school with Mrs. Garrett) to just say no to sugar? That was totally the best.
(Yes, I'm old.)
I watched Diff'rent Strokes faithfully, along with Facts of Life.
humms.......
(You take the good you take the bad you take them both and there you have the facts of life, the facts of life...)
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Chantell1979 wrote: »Hi everyone......today, is a week from me not using sugar!! My Doctor told to stop drinking or eating sweets that contain sugar because I may end up to be a diabetic. So I have given up sugar folks. I feel alive and refreshed. From a week today...I haven't ate or drank any added sugars...only if in fruits or good carbs. My body feels amazing. No more sluggishness, I'm not tired or having the morning headaches. We can do it...lets get healthy. Feel free to share or add me. Thanks!!
Chantell that is awesome and do not look back. I did it 8 months ago when in very poor health at age 63. In 30 days my pain level had dropped so much I no longer needed any meds to manage it. I am only down 25 pounds off of sugar but it looks more like a 50 pound lost. Plus I feel better than I have in 40 years.
It is not just Type 2 diabetes you may prevent but perhaps heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer's, etc. With your change it can help others around you when they see your health gains.
Please could you post the source for sugar CAUSING heart attacks, cancer, stroke, Alzheimer
not the ones that talk about increased risk factors due to being overweight and losing weight ameliorating the risk factor
but the actual source for a causative relationship here
That would be interesting to read
Rabbit this is a Google results base on your own words in your post. Thanks for your question.
https://google.com/search?q=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&oq=sugar+CAUSING+heart+attacks%2C+cancer%2C+stroke%2C+Alzheimer&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8
So we've got a blog post that conflates correlation with causation, the CDC list of leading causes of death (the word sugar doesn't appear on the whole page), a website talking about how diabetes works (the word sugar only appears in the form of "blood sugar" which is not surprising), the same again but this time it's only links leading to articles to diabetes stuff and blood sugar, and mercola who I'm not even going to bother to click on.
Here's some google results for you.
https://www.google.de/search?safe=off&es_sm=93&q=why+you+should+read+links+before+posting&oq=why+you+should+read+links+before+posting&gs_l=serp.3...6060.11880.0.12069.40.32.0.6.6.1.217.3341.8j19j1.28.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..18.22.1886.wSnRTucH-ig0 -
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Sandcastles61 wrote: »am I right in thinking that pre-diabetes is a medical state that is a result of being overweight and that weight rather than sugar consumption is the major correlation here
(really do not know much about this so just interested)
from a quick google
"Prediabetes is when blood glucose levels are higher than normal but not high enough for a diagnosis of diabetes. Prediabetes means a person is at increased risk for developing type 2 diabetes, as well as for heart disease and stroke. Many people with prediabetes develop type 2 diabetes within 10 years.
However, modest weight loss and moderate physical activity can help people with prediabetes delay or prevent type 2 diabetes." from http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/#2
and the NHS
"Type 2 diabetes causes are usually multifactorial - more than one diabetes cause is involved. Often, the most overwhelming factor is a family history of type 2 diabetes.
There are a variety of risk factors for type 2 diabetes, any or all of which increase the chances of developing the condition. These include:
Obesity
Living a sedentary lifestyle
Increasing age
Bad diet
Other type 2 diabetes causes such as pregnancy or illness can be type 2 diabetes risk factors."
so is it not weight that is the issue and not sugar consumption?
I usually love your advice rabbitjb, but my mom was far from overweight and diagnosed as prediabetic????? Which she has successfully managed by diet choices.... Although her mom(my grandmother) was full on diabetic. Just questioning?
There are people who never smoked but somehow get lung cancer, it's just that the probability for those who do is much higher.
Diabetes is not an open and shut case, it's caused by many factors, but genetics and obesity are the most prominent. As a former high-risk pre-diabetic I can tell you that weight loss and exercise actually do change things for those who are on their way to being diabetic and are overweight. For those who are slim other factors may be the cause, or less often it could actually be type 1. In fact there is a percentage of people who are type 1 (called type 1.5 sometimes) but were misdiagnosed as type 2 due to it being adult onset and slowly progressing which is why it's often mistaken for type 2. Some even get pure type 1 in adulthood. Measuring glucose alone does not make the distinction. In that case it's an autoimmune disease with entirely different mechanisms.
On the topic of pre-diabetes: diabetes can be avoided or delayed with proper blood glucose control. Since in many cases added sugar tends to be added in large quantities creating a larger spike in after-meal blood glucose many doctors tend to use "no sugar" as a rule, so I can understand why her doctor did. It's not a bad general rule to follow for someone who has to keep their carbs regulated. I personally did not follow it, but I own a glucose meter and I tested how different foods affect my sugar very thoroughly then created the best strategy for me to keep my after-meal spikes within an acceptable range. Not everyone is willing to do that. For some, implementing a simpler rule set like "no added sugar" or "low carb diets" may be simpler and easier. For me, giving up the foods I liked was the opposite of simple and easy, so I had to put in the effort to create a reliable alternative.
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LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »
Now I'm sad. I don't have enough calories left in my day to squeeze in a Krispy Kreme. Thanks a LOT!-1
This discussion has been closed.
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