All pills are not snake oil
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Hasn't it already been acknowledged in this thread that caffeine can provide some benefit?FunkyTobias wrote: »I'm sorry I just get annoyed that I've read so many questions about supplements, and people just cut and paste "only a calorie deficit works". Or instantly post the thing doesn't work and is snake oil and will only lean your pockets. People have posted about medical issues and that's the response without reading, i.e. "my doctor prescribed such and such for my bad liver. will it make me gain weight"? response: "there are no magic pills." smh.
I realize there are no pills that you eat whatever you want and live on the couch and lose 50 pounds a day. But some supplements might effectively curb your appetite, or give you the energy to work out, etc. and even if it is a placebo effect on some of them, so what? If you're eating better and working out more and blame the pill, what's the harm unless it's actually dangerous. I think posting that a supplement is snake oil without knowing anything about it is just as reckless as promoting something you know nothing about. Supplements obviously work for some people. I think it makes more sense to talk about specific research and what the pros and cons and potential dangers are rather than just jumping on people whenever they mention any sort of pill. If you don't know, you don't have to answer.
OK. Talk about a supplement that will "effectively curb your appetite or give you the energy to work out" that we should be more open-minded about here.
It's called caffeine
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FunkyTobias wrote: »
OK. Talk about a supplement that will "effectively curb your appetite or give you the energy to work out" that we should be more open-minded about here.
It's called caffeine
[/quote]
This. Are you claiming caffeine doesnt have an effect?0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
Your fallacy is tu quoque.0 -
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.
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So are you arguing for keeping people ignorant in the hopes they can get a placebo effect or are you just arguing?kshama2001 wrote: »
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.
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You, OP, are part of the problem.
Throw away your diet pills and become your own solution.
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UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
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There was a beneficial effect, but it came from the belief. The actual substance did nothing. So promoting things for the chance of getting the placebo effect is promoting things that don't work - just in hopes that you'll believe they work.kshama2001 wrote: »
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.0 -
Cant the supplement industry be bad regardless of the status of the pharmaceutical industry? "I know you are, but what am I" isn't very persuasive.kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
(Or we can go back to @senecarr 's Latin version.)
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FunkyTobias wrote: »
OK. Talk about a supplement that will "effectively curb your appetite or give you the energy to work out" that we should be more open-minded about here.
It's called caffeine
This. Are you claiming caffeine doesnt have an effect?[/quote]
Not at all. Just pointing out that most of the supplements that claim to suppress appetite have caffeine. You would get the same effect from a cup of coffee for a fraction of the price
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We all wouldn't be arguing here if the johnson enhancing supplements worked. Be too busy.0
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In to hear which supplements work. Please cite sources.0
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I think you have to buy them from a Nigerian prince.Liftng4Lis wrote: »In to hear which supplements work. Please cite sources.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
I think you have to buy them from a Nigerian prince.Liftng4Lis wrote: »In to hear which supplements work. Please cite sources.
Is there a supplement that will have Obama fix my mortgage?0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
So are you arguing for keeping people ignorant in the hopes they can get a placebo effect or are you just arguing?kshama2001 wrote: »
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.
That post was meant to correct the erroneous characterization of the term "placebo effect."
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kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
Supplements... as in vitamins or fat burners/appetite suppressants? What exactly are you defending here?
I doubt most people here would call a multivitamin or supplemental minerals snake oil.
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There was a beneficial effect, but it came from the belief. The actual substance did nothing. So promoting things for the chance of getting the placebo effect is promoting things that don't work - just in hopes that you'll believe they work.kshama2001 wrote: »
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.
Not only that, people should really increase the prices of these supplements because it placebos harder...
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-expensive-placebos-work-better-20150127-story.html0 -
Can we clairfy what we mean by supplement, we are talking about something that is claimed to have a direct effect on weight loss rather than a beneficiary secondary effect? If the Op was more precise and gave examples to back her up then maybe we could discuss. I havent see any of that.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Cant the supplement industry be bad regardless of the status of the pharmaceutical industry? "I know you are, but what am I" isn't very persuasive.kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
(Or we can go back to @senecarr 's Latin version.)
Dissing an unregulated industry while failing to enumerate the failings of the regulated industry is rather incomplete.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
Supplements... as in vitamins or fat burners/appetite suppressants? What exactly are you defending here?
I doubt most people here would call a multivitamin or supplemental minerals snake oil.
I responded to this post, which refers to supplements and supplement industry rather than fat burners/appetite suppressants.I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work0 -
So if I wanted to say strength training builds muscle, am I obligated to compare it to other exercises for completeness, like compared to sprint, or yoga?kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Cant the supplement industry be bad regardless of the status of the pharmaceutical industry? "I know you are, but what am I" isn't very persuasive.kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
(Or we can go back to @senecarr 's Latin version.)
Dissing an unregulated industry while failing to enumerate the failings of the regulated industry is rather incomplete.0 -
Not when the regulated industry isn't the topic. Then, it's just irrelevancy to shift the focus away from what is the topic.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Cant the supplement industry be bad regardless of the status of the pharmaceutical industry? "I know you are, but what am I" isn't very persuasive.kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
What about the bad things that happen from the regulated products like Phen/Fen? Please include a comparison!
See also http://www.un.org/esa/coordination/CL12.pdf
What? Nowhere did I say that Rx drugs were risk free.
Wait, a comparison of what?
And Phen/Fen was taken off the market...because it killed people. So...
I hear more news stories about dangerous regulated pharmaceuticals than dangerous unregulated supplements but am allowing for the possibility of a confirmation bias. I just don't think it's fair to dump on the supplement industry without a comparison of the pharmaceutical industry.
(Or we can go back to @senecarr 's Latin version.)
Dissing an unregulated industry while failing to enumerate the failings of the regulated industry is rather incomplete.
If someone disses sugar, is it germane to ask about all the people dying from organic lettuce tainted with E. coli?
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mantium999 wrote: »We all wouldn't be arguing here if the johnson enhancing supplements worked. Be too busy.
LMAO.0
This discussion has been closed.
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