All pills are not snake oil
Replies
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Couple of questions then: what's your assurance that the supplement you're taking actually contains any of the ingredients the seller is claiming? With no real regulation, do you analyze the ingredients yourself?Um ok. If people were really so concerned about others and that's why they post these sarcastic comments in the name of helping people, then they would care about their approach and how well received it was.
People on this site are very helpful, but only when people are willing to be helped. IMO you've posted on a deliberately inflammatory subject and then refused to accept what every single person on this thread has told you. Why should people spend time constructing a caring approach when you're not interested?
As Boyzone once sang "No matter what they teach you, what you believe is true."
Because people are responding here to tell me why they don't like supplements which means they completely missed the point. For some reason regardless of what I say people are determined to believe I'm just here to be told that supplements are great or something.
How are you assured that the raw material being used to make the supplements are pure and not contaminated? There are lots of studies out there showing that supplements on the market aren't pure. So if they aren't pure, and you don't really know what's in them, then why would you take it? Based on reliability that it's in a bottle?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think that can be assured by anything, including prescription drugs, which often cause there own problems and are often recalled. I don't take any diet pills at the moment, though I often have questions about them and post as such, but I do take vitamins, and don't have any assurance on those either. none of which has to do with my original point.
Unlike prescription drugs, these supplements are NOT regulated or tested. When actually tested by a third party most supplements contain little to no active ingredients, inconsistent ingredients, ingredients that are harmful/contaminated.
My opinion is that there is really no need whatsoever to resort to taking one of these pills OTHER than as you said, the placebo effect. And in that case, you're wasting money on something and supporting a company that makes it's living by ripping people off and scamming.
Are ALL supplements harmful? Surely not. But the things they can legally include cannot be effective enough to make a significant difference anyway.
Let's not even get started on the fact that relying on a "pill" to lose weight doesn't incentivize people to eat right, exercise, and be willing to put in the dang WORK that is needed to lose weight. It breeds false hope of "Eat what you want without worrying! *Herbalife anyone?*
Edited to add:
In closing my opinion is that when someone who is ignorant on CICO comes into a public forum where all of the tools they need to lose weight and find success are FREE they should be discouraged from spending money on something completely unnecessary and potentially harmful. Of course that person has every right to go out and spend their money as they choose, however, many of us want others to see great results and success and STOP the yo-yo diet pill fad diet nonsense FOR GOOD. Once you have the knowledge, you gain the power.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
Couple of questions then: what's your assurance that the supplement you're taking actually contains any of the ingredients the seller is claiming? With no real regulation, do you analyze the ingredients yourself?Um ok. If people were really so concerned about others and that's why they post these sarcastic comments in the name of helping people, then they would care about their approach and how well received it was.
People on this site are very helpful, but only when people are willing to be helped. IMO you've posted on a deliberately inflammatory subject and then refused to accept what every single person on this thread has told you. Why should people spend time constructing a caring approach when you're not interested?
As Boyzone once sang "No matter what they teach you, what you believe is true."
Because people are responding here to tell me why they don't like supplements which means they completely missed the point. For some reason regardless of what I say people are determined to believe I'm just here to be told that supplements are great or something.
How are you assured that the raw material being used to make the supplements are pure and not contaminated? There are lots of studies out there showing that supplements on the market aren't pure. So if they aren't pure, and you don't really know what's in them, then why would you take it? Based on reliability that it's in a bottle?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think that can be assured by anything, including prescription drugs, which often cause there own problems and are often recalled. I don't take any diet pills at the moment, though I often have questions about them and post as such, but I do take vitamins, and don't have any assurance on those either. none of which has to do with my original point.
Unlike prescription drugs, these supplements are NOT regulated or tested. When actually tested by a third party most supplements contain little to no active ingredients, inconsistent ingredients, ingredients that are harmful/contaminated.
My opinion is that there is really no need whatsoever to resort to taking one of these pills OTHER than as you said, the placebo effect. And in that case, you're wasting money on something and supporting a company that makes it's living by ripping people off and scamming.
Are ALL supplements harmful? Surely not. But the things they can legally include cannot be effective enough to make a significant difference anyway.
Let's not even get started on the fact that relying on a "pill" to lose weight doesn't incentivize people to eat right, exercise, and be willing to put in the dang WORK that is needed to lose weight. It breeds false hope of "Eat what you want without worrying! *Herbalife anyone?*
Edited to add:
In closing my opinion is that when someone who is ignorant on CICO comes into a public forum where all of the tools they need to lose weight and find success are FREE they should be discouraged from spending money on something completely unnecessary and potentially harmful. Of course that person has every right to go out and spend their money as they choose, however, many of us want others to see great results and success and STOP the yo-yo diet pill fad diet nonsense FOR GOOD. Once you have the knowledge, you gain the power.
This and this and this.0 -
and no I don't get to dictate what people post, but I do get to criticize and share my opinion of how people post and what they post just like you are doing right now. and yes if I don't like a response I DO share a different one.
Well, so far from what I've seen you are minimally active on these boards with the exception of complaining in this thread about how people don't tell you what you want to hear in the way you want to hear it, then cherry-picking generalized examples of phrases and wording that you personally take exception to.
I'd suggest spending more time on sharing responses you feel are useful with some of the many, many people who come to these boards seeking help. There are numerous threads like that just from today, and you haven't posted in any of them.
I'd also suggest putting less time into dissecting others' responses to see if they meet your standards of what's acceptable. Different people hear/read information in different ways. What's 'sarcastic' and 'useless' to you is 'straightforward' to someone else. Accept that like an adult who understands that good communication occurs in many different ways. Since you have very specific ideas about what is and isn't helpful, then focus on how you can be helpful and genuinely supportive to those who need it, spend less time in finger-pointing and accusing, and you'll help make these boards a better place.
Or just keep complaining about how awful everyone else is. That's always easier than becoming the change you seek.
Why it's ok for people to criticize my posts but not ok for me to criticize anyone is beyond me. But false. You can click on my name or search and find plenty of posts, though i don't find the need to post every day like some.
If you'd open your mind to criticism yourself, you'd notice that there are actually alot of people on here who come and are new and get completely turned off by certain approaches and comments that people keep claiming they want to help. But people are so fiercely offended by criticism they'd rather personally attack the critic than even think about changing their approach.
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I like how you have yet to address a single point0
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and no I don't get to dictate what people post, but I do get to criticize and share my opinion of how people post and what they post just like you are doing right now. and yes if I don't like a response I DO share a different one.
Well, so far from what I've seen you are minimally active on these boards with the exception of complaining in this thread about how people don't tell you what you want to hear in the way you want to hear it, then cherry-picking generalized examples of phrases and wording that you personally take exception to.
I'd suggest spending more time on sharing responses you feel are useful with some of the many, many people who come to these boards seeking help. There are numerous threads like that just from today, and you haven't posted in any of them.
I'd also suggest putting less time into dissecting others' responses to see if they meet your standards of what's acceptable. Different people hear/read information in different ways. What's 'sarcastic' and 'useless' to you is 'straightforward' to someone else. Accept that like an adult who understands that good communication occurs in many different ways. Since you have very specific ideas about what is and isn't helpful, then focus on how you can be helpful and genuinely supportive to those who need it, spend less time in finger-pointing and accusing, and you'll help make these boards a better place.
Or just keep complaining about how awful everyone else is. That's always easier than becoming the change you seek.
Why it's ok for people to criticize my posts but not ok for me to criticize anyone is beyond me.
You really don't see? Look what you just wrote - other people criticize your *posts* - you want to criticize *people*.
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Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?0 -
There's a difference in regulation of drugs versus supplements. Drugs can invariably be recalled or pulled from shelves with immediacy, whereas supplements don't have that happen often.
Couple of questions then: what's your assurance that the supplement you're taking actually contains any of the ingredients the seller is claiming? With no real regulation, do you analyze the ingredients yourself?Um ok. If people were really so concerned about others and that's why they post these sarcastic comments in the name of helping people, then they would care about their approach and how well received it was.
People on this site are very helpful, but only when people are willing to be helped. IMO you've posted on a deliberately inflammatory subject and then refused to accept what every single person on this thread has told you. Why should people spend time constructing a caring approach when you're not interested?
As Boyzone once sang "No matter what they teach you, what you believe is true."
Because people are responding here to tell me why they don't like supplements which means they completely missed the point. For some reason regardless of what I say people are determined to believe I'm just here to be told that supplements are great or something.
How are you assured that the raw material being used to make the supplements are pure and not contaminated? There are lots of studies out there showing that supplements on the market aren't pure. So if they aren't pure, and you don't really know what's in them, then why would you take it? Based on reliability that it's in a bottle?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think that can be assured by anything, including prescription drugs, which often cause there own problems and are often recalled. I don't take any diet pills at the moment, though I often have questions about them and post as such, but I do take vitamins, and don't have any assurance on those either. none of which has to do with my original point.
I'll just leave it at this: NO DIET PILL works without calorie deficit. That's why they are snake oil. Go to any fitness/health magazine and you'll find lots of ads for weight loss products all with the same disclaimer: results not typical. If they were so good, then why aren't they typical?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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and no I don't get to dictate what people post, but I do get to criticize and share my opinion of how people post and what they post just like you are doing right now. and yes if I don't like a response I DO share a different one.
Well, so far from what I've seen you are minimally active on these boards with the exception of complaining in this thread about how people don't tell you what you want to hear in the way you want to hear it, then cherry-picking generalized examples of phrases and wording that you personally take exception to.
I'd suggest spending more time on sharing responses you feel are useful with some of the many, many people who come to these boards seeking help. There are numerous threads like that just from today, and you haven't posted in any of them.
I'd also suggest putting less time into dissecting others' responses to see if they meet your standards of what's acceptable. Different people hear/read information in different ways. What's 'sarcastic' and 'useless' to you is 'straightforward' to someone else. Accept that like an adult who understands that good communication occurs in many different ways. Since you have very specific ideas about what is and isn't helpful, then focus on how you can be helpful and genuinely supportive to those who need it, spend less time in finger-pointing and accusing, and you'll help make these boards a better place.
Or just keep complaining about how awful everyone else is. That's always easier than becoming the change you seek.
Why it's ok for people to criticize my posts but not ok for me to criticize anyone is beyond me. But false. You can click on my name or search and find plenty of posts, though i don't find the need to post every day like some.
If you'd open your mind to criticism yourself, you'd notice that there are actually alot of people on here who come and are new and get completely turned off by certain approaches and comments that people keep claiming they want to help. But people are so fiercely offended by criticism they'd rather personally attack the critic than even think about changing their approach.
Do you honestly think you are putting forward a rational argument? It is incoherent and vague. Plenty of people have given you the opportunity to clarify your OP, provide examples of the claimed about behaviour, but backing up your argument seems too much for you to do.
Why not run through your posts and list each point you are making and where you are at with it so people can see what you are going on about? So far your claims and your ability to support those claims has been dismal.
Give us all a recap on what your points are so newcomers and people who have lost the will to go on can just read a single post of your and what you believe you are saying.0 -
To newcomers:
Don't waste your time or hard earned money on supplements for weight loss. Weight loss is about eating less, not popping pills to create your deficit by stiffling your appetite that you should be learning how to control with BEHAVIOR CHANGE.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
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I've never read 1 post stating that no one should take vitamin or prescription medication. But those are not the same as weight loss pills or other, unnecessary and potentially harmful, not to mention usually expensive, weight loss scams.0
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Sadly OP, if you would take a step back and evaluate what everyone is saying, you would see the whole picture. But you can't group vitamins/minerals in the same category as fat burners and slimming formulas. Many of use take multivitamins or supplements because of medical conditions or dietary deficiencies. In fact, for people like my wife who has Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (a condition where your electrolytes deplete very easily based on your bodies inability to regulate BP), supplements are a must. She has to have a prescription Potassium and takes Magnesium Taurate (magnesium blended with amino acids). It's the other side of the equation (fat burners, green tea, and all things found on Dr. Oz) that are unnecessary and do not help with weight loss.0
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Wow. If someone wants to save me money by warning me about a product and letting me know results are not about that, I would thank them. I work hard for what little I have and don't wish to see it down the drain. Pass me those diet and exercise pills, please!0
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S....M.....H0
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Diet pilss are snake oil op , there's no way around it.
If you want to lose weight, eat at a calorie deficit0 -
While on weight watchers and also on this site I have heard people say since they started eating correctly they no longer need their diabetic meds, blood pressure meds and that they have more energy. I can't help to wonder if every one ate correctly we wouldn't need as many medicines or hospitals.
Why would you take something that is not medically necessary?0 -
S---M---H Sugar---Molasses---Harmony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxtZpFl3pPM
Thank you Don Draper. . . .brilliant.0 -
Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?
THANK YOU!! I think most people just read the thread title and decided I was an obese person who was looking for a magic pill. Thanks for reading before commenting!!0 -
Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?
THANK YOU!! I think most people just read the thread title and decided I was an obese person who was looking for a magic pill. Thanks for reading before commenting!!
like two people said/agreed with that. If you're going to attribute thoughts to people that they haven't said. Well. A lot of things will likely needlessly make you angry then. Whether they're true or not
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Post some flexible eating guidelines.UltimateRBF wrote: »I'm surprised this thread has not gotten nuked
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No, it's a tautological statement about how modern evidence medicine works. The correct quote from Tim Minchin actually says "call alternative medicine that is proven to work? Medicine." That's the thing, if you can actually properly prove a treatment works above placebo effect, modern medicine accepts it as a treatment.
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Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?
THANK YOU!! I think most people just read the thread title and decided I was an obese person who was looking for a magic pill. Thanks for reading before commenting!!
like two people said/agreed with that. If you're going to attribute thoughts to people that they haven't said. Well. A lot of things will likely needlessly make you angry then. Whether they're true or not
People at the bottom of the class often defend themselves by citing the number of people who also didn't understand something. You're like "only 2 people got it" lol and?0 -
Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?Woo. Lots of it.
I understand OPs point of changing approach. Why don't we stay on topic of it instead of battling over who's criticizing who/what...lol.
Also, why isn't there differing terms for the prescribed or proven supplements that are needed vs the snake oil stuff?
THANK YOU!! I think most people just read the thread title and decided I was an obese person who was looking for a magic pill. Thanks for reading before commenting!!
Many of us have read the entire thread and commented. Unfortunately, you have chosen to not like what the rest of us are saying, so you make wild and unfounded assumptions that we do not read your thread. The fact that you have ignored the rest of us, clearly shows you are not interested in understanding reality of the situation regarding supplements and would rather just want to complain about people who don't share your thoughts.
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This discussion has been closed.
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