All pills are not snake oil
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VintageFeline wrote: »OP, please show me where people have told those on prescribed medications for medical conditions to stop taking their (not at all snake oil) snake oil supplements? I've never witnessed it. Nor have I seen people told not to take vitamin and mineral supplements if they are still working on getting all they need through diet (I take some supplements myself).
What I do see is a lot of people advising others not to spend their hard earned money on things that are proven not to work to aid weight loss, whether it's a cleanse, raspeberry ketones, teatox, green tea, whatever. Just because you're still clinging onto the false hope that you don't just have to get a grip on your calorie intake doesn't make these products any less snakey or oily.
Really? Now I personally don't have a grip on my calorie intake? Ok yet another example of somebody commenting on something they know nothing about. Smh
You still want to believe some of these pills work, yes? Which generally indicates someone who hasn't yet got a grip on calorie intake because science. Anyone not losing weight is eating too much, full stop, end of story. I've been there, done that and am now losing, so I think I know a little of what I'm talking about.
I'm still waiting for examples where people have told others not to take their liver meds etc.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Jozzmenia have you tried any of these weight loss products, and have they made a dramatic difference to your weight loss?
Like I said, the only thing they did for me was make me poorer..
I've taken alot in my 35 years on earth the only ones to havr a significant memorable effect were metabolife and adipex in terms of pills. Finding a protein i liked was also a godsend for my weight loss. Had a trainer recommend lipo 6 black but told me to drink extra water because it's bad for the liver. Smh. I've done medical weight loss, weight watchers, and different shakes.
.....So if they worked, why are you here?
OK, some pills may 'dull' your appetite, but are they encouraging good eating habits? Most likely not-the minute you stop relying on the pills and go back to your usual eating habits, you will gain all that weight back, and maybe more. I really don't see how they can help in the long term, unless you are actively changing your habits, ad you can do that without the pills.0 -
Well, if you're absolutely set in your ways and wish to buy some expensive placebo I recommend homeopathic weight loss remedies. At least expensive water does not have the ability to turn your liver into mush.0
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Lots of things about weight loss pills scare me. First of all they are not regulated by the FDA, so there are all sorts of ingredients in there! Some of these supplements contain a drug called sibutramine. This was an FDA approved drug, but it was removed from the market because it cased heart problems and strokes. They can also contain concoctions of other drugs for things like high blood pressure, and depression. These drugs can have serious side effects if you do not have the condition they are prescribed for. There is a reason they are prescribed drugs! The FDA has also found some of these drugs in so called natural products like Garcinia cambogia.
I cannot, with a clean conscience, let anyone take these supplements without making sure they really know about the supplement. Just because they are on the shelf does not mean they are safe. There were over 30 public notifications and 7 product recalls of such supplements in 2014 alone.0 -
all I am going to say is google diet pill deaths...nuff said.0
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Lots of things about weight loss pills scare me. First of all they are not regulated by the FDA, so there are all sorts of ingredients in there!
This is one my biggest gripe with OTC weight loss supplements ( and even many vitamin companies). You don't really know what's in there. Wasn't it Hydroxycut who got in trouble a few years back because people were getting sick from ingredients that weren't on the label? I can't remember which one it was.0 -
The original:
Read up about Clark Stanley, he is definitely a character!
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The scammers have been around a long, long time.
Just as long as the gullible.
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WinoGelato wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »smh
Yes i knew it was pointless when i posted but it was rWinoGelato wrote: »OP is it your contention that no one should comment about the possible outcomes of an individual's idea if he or she doesn't have firsthand experience with that idea?
For example, I've never jumped out of an airplane without a parachute but I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome would be if someone wanted to try. Should I not tell them, and instead think, "nah, they will figure it out, why would they bother listening to me, I've never tried it"?
Direct experience is only one method of validating an outcome. The vast majority of researchers don't conduct the experiment on themselves, that would invalidate the data. Should they not comment on the efficacy of supplements or other pills since they've never tried them first hand?
It was a compound point regarding not commenting if you don't know about a product and not commenting just to be cute or sarcastic without any useful points. And many have no basis for comments on a specific supplement other than their general disdain for all supplements. It would be different if they said something about that specific supplement, which i said
Did you have examples of supplements and pills which are in fact, effective for the vast majority of users and have a direct causal relationship to weight loss based on peer reviewed scientific studies? I saw a lot of comments about things you saw in threads that you thought were too sarcastic and generalistic but I'm struggling to understand why "it's snake oil, there are no miracle pills, save your money" is invalid advice?
I had a reply about anecdotes that was deleted, perhaps i was too inensitive. Many often confuse anecdotal evidence with scientific evidence. Even if someone claims that something "worked for them" it a) doesnt mean that it actually worked - it could have been something else (post hoc fallacy), b) their condition could have improved on its own and c) in no way provides the basis for a general suggestion or cure.
So direct experience isn't even a method for validating anything. A good example from Wikipedia:
"There's abundant proof that drinking water cures cancer. Just last week I read about a girl who was dying of cancer. After drinking water she was cured."
So countering anything with someone's direct experience doesn't hold up to the rigors of the scientific method, no matter how much someone wants to believe themselves.0 -
To be honest, there is a time and a place for weight loss pills. Just like a VLC diet, they can be prescribed by a doctor, and supervised by a doctor, in order to drop a lot of weight quickly if it is needed for health reasons like having life preserving surgery. For everyone else, the few that actually work are just delaying the inevitable (and those few are prescription only). You need to relearn how to eat in order to lose weight and/or maintain a healthy weight.0
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WinoGelato wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »smh
Yes i knew it was pointless when i posted but it was rWinoGelato wrote: »OP is it your contention that no one should comment about the possible outcomes of an individual's idea if he or she doesn't have firsthand experience with that idea?
For example, I've never jumped out of an airplane without a parachute but I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome would be if someone wanted to try. Should I not tell them, and instead think, "nah, they will figure it out, why would they bother listening to me, I've never tried it"?
Direct experience is only one method of validating an outcome. The vast majority of researchers don't conduct the experiment on themselves, that would invalidate the data. Should they not comment on the efficacy of supplements or other pills since they've never tried them first hand?
It was a compound point regarding not commenting if you don't know about a product and not commenting just to be cute or sarcastic without any useful points. And many have no basis for comments on a specific supplement other than their general disdain for all supplements. It would be different if they said something about that specific supplement, which i said
Did you have examples of supplements and pills which are in fact, effective for the vast majority of users and have a direct causal relationship to weight loss based on peer reviewed scientific studies? I saw a lot of comments about things you saw in threads that you thought were too sarcastic and generalistic but I'm struggling to understand why "it's snake oil, there are no miracle pills, save your money" is invalid advice?
I had a reply about anecdotes that was deleted, perhaps i was too inensitive. Many often confuse anecdotal evidence with scientific evidence. Even if someone claims that something "worked for them" it a) doesnt mean that it actually worked - it could have been something else (post hoc fallacy), b) their condition could have improved on its own and c) in no way provides the basis for a general suggestion or cure.
I would add:
d) they feel stupid for having fallen for the scam and instead of admitting it, they prefer to save face by saying that yes, they are a special snowflake that actually experienced the advertised benefits.
I think this one factor alone accounts for most of the incidents of dogged determination to hold onto a belief in the face of all scientific evidence to the contrary.0 -
BINGO!]
I would add:
d) they feel stupid for having fallen for the scam and instead of admitting it, they prefer to save face by saying that yes, they are a special snowflake that actually experienced the advertised benefits.
I think this one factor alone accounts for most of the incidents of dogged determination to hold onto a belief in the face of all scientific evidence to the contrary.
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Agree with Jozz. All things are not snakeoil. Everyones circumstances and life are different and require differing approaches. I am 48 and i work at night. 12-14 hours at night and a goodly portion of the next day is spent sleeping. Hey, guess what i am vit. D deficient what a surprise. Oh you say i should eat better, guess again i eat great. Oh get more sun. Guess again again, i have to sleep. Is that not important to my health? So sue me i take a vit. D supplement and has helped enormously. I also use protein as well as creatine and supplement my B12 via... Wait for it. INJECTIONS. Oh my heavens.
Heads out of the sand people and sometimes outside the box also.
My 2 cents
If it's an injectable it is highly regulated and....wait for it...not classified as a supplement.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
A placebo is something that doesn't work (an inactive or inert substance). When there's a placebo effect, it means there was a beneficial effect.
I'll remember this at my next FDA review panel.
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this may qualify as one of the most useless threads every generated....0
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