I'm a geek: I read 2 atkins books this week.
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Blinding and double blinding are good science. Try it.Gianfranco_R wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »
This is by no means the only experiment on MSG. It had already been proven to be safe.
You said it was unethical, not immoral.
msg could be "safe" but it is well known that can be a trigger for some people
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1526-4610.1991.hed3102107.x/abstract
I don't see anywhere where that study was double-blinded.
That's the mindset of many MFP users: peer reviewed papers are not enough rigorous for them if not double-blinded, while undocumented translators' amateur experiments are "great"...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Liked Sugar Salt Fat and am reading Yoni Freedhoff's Diet Fix (I read diet books although I think they are largely pointless, who knows why).
I quite like Yoni Freedhoff's The Diet Fix. The "10-day reset" is gimmicky, but not too much so, and his emphasis on making incremental dietary changes that you can live with is refreshing. It's one of three books with "diet" in their title that I recommend without reservation. (The other two are John Walker, The Hacker's Diet, because Walker treats weight loss as an engineering and management problem, not a moral problem, and Richard Watson, The Philosopher's Diet, which is not really about dieting per se, but about the discipline required to do anything hard, such as losing a lot of weight and keeping it off.)0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »"We do not want to go into ketosis. That's about breaking down, right? To get into ketosis... in fact, what is diabetic KETOacidosis? It's not having enough insulin to keep yourself from ketosis."
I stopped watching shorty after this. I don't know what her qualifications are but I believe she's working from a faulty knowledge base and drawing incorrect conclusions.
According to the original poster she is an endocrinologist I believe with 25 years of experience specialising in diabetes.
Well no wonder I'm not impressed... 25 years of prescribing high carb diets to diabetics. Do you know what's known to reverse diabetes? Bariatric surgery, very low calorie diets/fasting -- ketosis is going to be involved in all of those.
The current diabetic recommendations leave something to be desired, IMO.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I googled her and she doesnt seem to be exactly a high carb advocate:
http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-and-low-carb-plans/schwarzbein-principle.html
"By the numbers: In terms of numbers, an inactive person can have up to 15g of carbohydrates at every meal. The more active you are, the more you get - she maintains that carbohydrates are an important source of glycogen for muscles.There are no calorie restrictions."
Thank you for the link, Gianfranco. It's really quite interesting that she prescribes a ketogenic level of carbohydrate but believes ultimately it's a dangerous/unhealthy state? Either or I think from what little I've listened to she's fundamentally wrong on several points -- in my opinion, of course, so you can take that for what it's worth.
it seems that people who read her first book didn't understand her, so she wrote another one to clarify:
http://www.schwarzbeinprinciple.com/pgs/dr_schw/sp_II_intro.html
anyway I find interesting the concept of hormone balance.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.
Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.
It took him years to figure out what was wrong. Trial and error to find his triggers. Kind of like how it took me 38 years to discover that I had celiac disease. Who would have thought that the innocent PBJ sandwich would cause arthritis, hair loss, fatigue, migraines and stomach aches for days?
It is pretty egocentric of you to assume you know what affects his health. There are a few common additives that get him. He rarely eats out now, and cannot even eat at most people's homes. If he avoids them he is fine. I doubt he cured himself with the power of his mind.
I was told it was all in my head too, starting from childhood. Just because the doctor didn't figure it out doesn't mean it isn't real.
It made your hair fall out? Hmm I have been suspecting things but this is great to know.
If you suspect celiac disease, I would encourage you to get tested (tissue transglytaminase, enomysial antibodies, deaminated gliadin peptide tests in both IgA and IgG, as well as total serum IgA control test). We don't all have stomach aches. In fact the most common symptom is anemia. There are over 300 symptoms and conditions which can be caused by or associated with celiac disease. http://www.cureceliacdisease.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/CDCFactSheets10_SymptomList.pdf
Celiac.com forums are a good place to go for help.
My symptoms included those aleady listed plus ITP, hashi's, plantar faciitis, brain fog, constipation, some low vitamins, stopped growing young, bloating and a few other symptoms that would come and go like mouth sores and rases.
Best wishes.0 -
IdoScience wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?
I apologize for the long video. It is queued up to start hopefully at 13:51. Also the last 25-30 minutes the Q&A asks and talks about keto diets.
this is a presentation by an endocrinologist with 25 years of clinical experience specializing in diabetes. In this presentation she discusses how low carb diets affects your hormones and metabolism and patients developing diabetes from low carb diets who never had diabetes before. Also, that going too low in carbs is a stressor on the body(adrenals?). The biochemistry is above the layman head, but it is very eye opening seeing as her old books were based on using low carb diets. My lab result confirm a lot of what negative effects she is talking about. She says short-term low carb studies are promising but the negative effects don't manifest until a much longer timeframe. She discusses nitric oxide,cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline, insulin, thyroid, adrenal fatigue etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0MG_zYIdQ&t=13m51s
Some of what she said made sense to me.
A couple of years ago I was taking cortisol. I was moderate to high carb, recovering from some autoimmune issues, and my cortisol was low. I was probably at the beginning of prediabetes. Cortisol (meds)+ insulin = fat gain. I gained 20lbs in one year.
The fact that she says we can't rebuild like we could when we were younger. Makes sense.
She says cortisol will go up on a LC diet. That may not be a problem for me.
I do have insulin resistance. If I eat above 30g of carbs in one day, the next day my FBG is usually up around the prediabetic levels again. Same happens when sick. If I exercise, FBG goes down... This seems to fly in the face of what she is saying.
I can't figure out how she expects those with insulin resistance to treat themselves. We're supposed to eat everything in moderation. We're not supposed to go low carb? Moderation should work? What if it doesn't? It doesn't appear to work for me. I KNOW what my BG looks like if I eat 75+ g of carbs per meal.
I dunno. Maybe her books would make more sense for someone like me. The video didn't. I suspect she is just another diet book author though, meaning it may work for some but don't assume it is true for you.
In her opinion, diabetes isn't about fasting glucose, so she isn't predicting FBG would go up with exercise.
In her talk, diabetes is a point where intracellularly, certain hormonal pathways no longer operate - for her the main one is she says a diabetic no longer properly produces nitric oxide when signaled by insulin, which means the body is getting set up for heart disease.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »"We do not want to go into ketosis. That's about breaking down, right? To get into ketosis... in fact, what is diabetic KETOacidosis? It's not having enough insulin to keep yourself from ketosis."
I stopped watching shorty after this. I don't know what her qualifications are but I believe she's working from a faulty knowledge base and drawing incorrect conclusions.
According to the original poster she is an endocrinologist I believe with 25 years of experience specialising in diabetes.
Well no wonder I'm not impressed... 25 years of prescribing high carb diets to diabetics. Do you know what's known to reverse diabetes? Bariatric surgery, very low calorie diets/fasting -- ketosis is going to be involved in all of those.
The current diabetic recommendations leave something to be desired, IMO.
Actually, she's said those things don't treat diabetes. They get blood sugar under control, but they actually, in her opinion, make all the insulin issues worse because insulin is more than just the mechanism for monitoring blood sugar. It also signals all kinds of other actions in the body. Now people in keto are constantly keeping not just their blood sugar low, but their insulin, and that means they're reducing all the other activities insulins signals for - in particular she mentions nitric oxide which is part of the circulatory system, and how there are statistics saying people who have their diabetes "cured" by low carb have huge increases in cardiac events.0 -
IdoScience wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?
I apologize for the long video. It is queued up to start hopefully at 13:51. Also the last 25-30 minutes the Q&A asks and talks about keto diets.
this is a presentation by an endocrinologist with 25 years of clinical experience specializing in diabetes. In this presentation she discusses how low carb diets affects your hormones and metabolism and patients developing diabetes from low carb diets who never had diabetes before. Also, that going too low in carbs is a stressor on the body(adrenals?). The biochemistry is above the layman head, but it is very eye opening seeing as her old books were based on using low carb diets. My lab result confirm a lot of what negative effects she is talking about. She says short-term low carb studies are promising but the negative effects don't manifest until a much longer timeframe. She discusses nitric oxide,cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline, insulin, thyroid, adrenal fatigue etc.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0MG_zYIdQ&t=13m51s
Some of what she said made sense to me.
A couple of years ago I was taking cortisol. I was moderate to high carb, recovering from some autoimmune issues, and my cortisol was low. I was probably at the beginning of prediabetes. Cortisol (meds)+ insulin = fat gain. I gained 20lbs in one year.
The fact that she says we can't rebuild like we could when we were younger. Makes sense.
She says cortisol will go up on a LC diet. That may not be a problem for me.
I do have insulin resistance. If I eat above 30g of carbs in one day, the next day my FBG is usually up around the prediabetic levels again. Same happens when sick. If I exercise, FBG goes down... This seems to fly in the face of what she is saying.
I can't figure out how she expects those with insulin resistance to treat themselves. We're supposed to eat everything in moderation. We're not supposed to go low carb? Moderation should work? What if it doesn't? It doesn't appear to work for me. I KNOW what my BG looks like if I eat 75+ g of carbs per meal.
I dunno. Maybe her books would make more sense for someone like me. The video didn't. I suspect she is just another diet book author though, meaning it may work for some but don't assume it is true for you.
In her opinion, diabetes isn't about fasting glucose, so she isn't predicting FBG would go up with exercise.
In her talk, diabetes is a point where intracellularly, certain hormonal pathways no longer operate - for her the main one is she says a diabetic no longer properly produces nitric oxide when signaled by insulin, which means the body is getting set up for heart disease.
interesting, interesting, do you want to buy her supplements?
http://www.schwarzbeinprinciple.com/pgs/shop/supplmnts/store_supplmnts.html
"There are many choices and brands of supplements available. This has only created chaos and confusion for the consumer.[...]To help my patients, I decided to carry supplements in my office."
very generous, isn't it?0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
Strangely, I am also non-keto (166g of carbs yesterday) and I see a totally different scenario.
I'm not permitted to post examples here, but feel free to email me with contrary evidence.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
That's not what I'm seeing (I'm not keto etc - I'm actually more your WOE). I'm leaving it at that though.
I'velemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
That's not what I'm seeing (I'm not keto etc - I'm actually more your WOE). I'm leaving it at that though.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find non keto folks who insist others must eat like them, but I invite you to email me with examples.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
I'm also not keto, and do not see the boards this way.
You've always seemed to me biased toward the low carb POV, even when the MFP group is pushing stuff like carnivous diets. Given that I think your POV is similar to mine -- basically Walter Willett -- and that's anti tons of sat fat and certainly anti reducing veg and fruit and legumes and whole grains, I've found that odd.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
Strangely, I am also non-keto (166g of carbs yesterday) and I see a totally different scenario.
I'm not permitted to post examples here, but feel free to email me with contrary evidence.
we are not before a court, but negativa non sunt probanda
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Liked Sugar Salt Fat and am reading Yoni Freedhoff's Diet Fix (I read diet books although I think they are largely pointless, who knows why).
I quite like Yoni Freedhoff's The Diet Fix. The "10-day reset" is gimmicky, but not too much so, and his emphasis on making incremental dietary changes that you can live with is refreshing. It's one of three books with "diet" in their title that I recommend without reservation. (The other two are John Walker, The Hacker's Diet, because Walker treats weight loss as an engineering and management problem, not a moral problem, and Richard Watson, The Philosopher's Diet, which is not really about dieting per se, but about the discipline required to do anything hard, such as losing a lot of weight and keeping it off.)
Thanks! Those are all on my list now.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
I'm also not keto, and do not see the boards this way.
You've always seemed to me biased toward the low carb POV, even when the MFP group is pushing stuff like carnivous diets. Given that I think your POV is similar to mine -- basically Walter Willett -- and that's anti tons of sat fat and certainly anti reducing veg and fruit and legumes and whole grains, I've found that odd.
I am very Michael Pollan: eat (real) food, not too much, mostly plants.
As I've hurtled toward menopause, and then hit it full on, I have further reduced my consumption of refined grains.
My diet has been rather lower carb these last few months, in an effort to ease hot flashes and night sweats and a few other annoying symptoms (which seems to be working, btw).
My fats, if it matters, come primarily from avocados, nuts, and cold water fish (and then some cheese, some red meat and chicken...
So I guess you could say I transitioned (at least temporarily) from a mediterranean/ south beach style to a lower carb mediterranean/south beach style of eating, with no limitations on fibers vegetables.
And yes, I've always been happy to support folks trying a lower carb diet for their health. As well as those attempting to reduce their consumption of refined carbs.
Both are valid approaches to improving health, and lower the number on the scale. However, you'll note that I only offer guidance to folks asking about those topics. If someone is doing calorie counting, I don't say "hey why not go low carb instead". I offer ideas for calorie counting.
Perhaps if Keto-ers weren't told daily (including in this thread) that what they're doing is bad, unhealthy, and doomed to fail, the ones who do speak out loudly wouldn't feel inclined.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Here's another suggestion: The Starch Solution - by Dr. John McDougall.
Have you read it? What's the gist?0 -
IdoScience wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?
I apologize for the long video. It is queued up to start hopefully at 13:51. Also the last 25-30 minutes the Q&A asks and talks about keto diets.
this is a presentation by an endocrinologist with 25 years of clinical experience specializing in diabetes. In this presentation she discusses how low carb diets affects your hormones and metabolism and patients developing diabetes from low carb diets who never had diabetes before. Also, that going too low in carbs is a stressor on the body(adrenals?). The biochemistry is above the layman head, but it is very eye opening seeing as her old books were based on using low carb diets. My lab result confirm a lot of what negative effects she is talking about. She says short-term low carb studies are promising but the negative effects don't manifest until a much longer timeframe. She discusses nitric oxide,cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline, insulin, thyroid, adrenal fatigue etc.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0MG_zYIdQ&t=13m51s
Some of what she said made sense to me.
A couple of years ago I was taking cortisol. I was moderate to high carb, recovering from some autoimmune issues, and my cortisol was low. I was probably at the beginning of prediabetes. Cortisol (meds)+ insulin = fat gain. I gained 20lbs in one year.
The fact that she says we can't rebuild like we could when we were younger. Makes sense.
She says cortisol will go up on a LC diet. That may not be a problem for me.
I do have insulin resistance. If I eat above 30g of carbs in one day, the next day my FBG is usually up around the prediabetic levels again. Same happens when sick. If I exercise, FBG goes down... This seems to fly in the face of what she is saying.
I can't figure out how she expects those with insulin resistance to treat themselves. We're supposed to eat everything in moderation. We're not supposed to go low carb? Moderation should work? What if it doesn't? It doesn't appear to work for me. I KNOW what my BG looks like if I eat 75+ g of carbs per meal.
I dunno. Maybe her books would make more sense for someone like me. The video didn't. I suspect she is just another diet book author though, meaning it may work for some but don't assume it is true for you.
In her opinion, diabetes isn't about fasting glucose, so she isn't predicting FBG would go up with exercise.
In her talk, diabetes is a point where intracellularly, certain hormonal pathways no longer operate - for her the main one is she says a diabetic no longer properly produces nitric oxide when signaled by insulin, which means the body is getting set up for heart disease.
Yes, I get that, but what are we (those with insulin resistance) supposed to do? It seemed like she wants us to wait it out. Not go LCHF. But then her online info seems to promote levels of low carb that could put people into ketosis.
Her treatment plan is unclear to me. She says low insulin and blood glucose are not the solution, but what is?
I am hoping she means carb timing. Eat some carbs but time it around exercise so the carbs are used. This way one could keep the benefits of low carb while raising insulin once a day.
I have requested her books from the library. I'll give my opinion once done0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Numbers aside, I think most of the non-keto folks are like me -- we have a particular way we like to eat but understand that there are many different ways that people can eat in a healthy fashion, including keto. That's why I always say it can work for people and is worth experimenting with if you aren't already happy with what you are doing.
It seems to me that lately lots and lots of keto folks like to argue that that's the only way to be healthy and that people should reduce fruit and even veg and the like. Lots of drivebys along those lines lately, among other things.
I'm also not keto, and do not see the boards this way.
You've always seemed to me biased toward the low carb POV, even when the MFP group is pushing stuff like carnivous diets. Given that I think your POV is similar to mine -- basically Walter Willett -- and that's anti tons of sat fat and certainly anti reducing veg and fruit and legumes and whole grains, I've found that odd.
I am very Michael Pollan: eat (real) food, not too much, mostly plants.
I very much like Pollan as well.As I've hurtled toward menopause, and then hit it full on, I have further reduced my consumption of refined grains.
I've never eaten lots of grains, but am reducing more lately (this obviously means refined as well). I'm going to do an experiment of low fat vs. low carb vs. 40-30-30 to see if I feel better, mostly re exercise and because I think it will interest me. I'm also doing Cron-O-Meter to interest me.And yes, I've always been happy to support folks trying a lower carb diet for their health. As well as those attempting to reduce their consumption of refined carbs.
So have I. I consider that different than insisting that one must lower carbs for health reasons or the like.
[quote}Both are valid approaches to improving health, and lower the number on the scale. However, you'll note that I only offer guidance to folks asking about those topics. If someone is doing calorie counting, I don't say "hey why not go low carb instead". I offer ideas for calorie counting.[/quote]
Sadly, your approach is not the only one, which is why I brought it up. (Also, I think far more people do low carb to improve weight, and health only indirectly, and a very low carb diet isn't the best approach to improving health unless you are someone who doesn't want to eat many fruits and veg. But I do think that getting weight in check is the best first step for most.)Perhaps if Keto-ers weren't told daily (including in this thread) that what they're doing is bad, unhealthy, and doomed to fail, the ones who do speak out loudly wouldn't feel inclined.
I don't think that's at all the case. Far more common lately is ketoers claiming that eating 40-50% carbs is inherently unhealthy.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Here's another suggestion: The Starch Solution - by Dr. John McDougall.
Have you read it? What's the gist?
I've read it. Eat potatoes (and other whole foods carbs) -- don't worry about protein.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Here's another suggestion: The Starch Solution - by Dr. John McDougall.
Have you read it? What's the gist?
I've read it. Eat potatoes (and other whole foods carbs) -- don't worry about protein.
I believe it's also low fat.0
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